Tape on Jon Benets mouth - New info

[Tadpole12]

Hi mimimama5.

Yes. Thankyou for sharing your story. My deepest sympathies.

 

[DeDee]

<RSBM>
Please accept my sincere condolences.

As far as Patsy goes...yeah, she had a degree of acceptance of JB's death, way too soon. Another example is when Fleet yelled from the basement.."WE FOUND HER! CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!" And, she didn't even budge from the couch that she was sitting on. She KNEW that JB was dead...that is why she didn't come a running. Any other parent, upon hearing the words..."WE FOUND HER! CALL AN AMBULANCE!!"....after finding a ransom note, and their child was presumed missing....would RUN not walk to their child, hoping that they could do anything at all to help them. IMO...if there had of been a REAL intruder, and a real Ransom note...and Patsy heard the words..."WE FOUND HER! CALL AN AMBULANCE!"...she would have thought that JB was hurt...not dead.
Never heard of calling an ambulance for an already dead person. When my mom died, we didn't call an ambulance...we called the funeral home.

You said it best, Ames,

As far as Patsy goes...yeah, she had a degree of acceptance of JB's death, way too soon.

I was unable to obtain an exact date for the photo, other than it was taken before Oct. 2000, but it certainly looks like Patsy Ramsey can handle whatever may come her way. And there's John all laid back and basking in her histrionics.

**************
On the topic of this thread, Patsy was questioned by LE about owning a pair of purple and pink gardening gloves.

The Tape Fibers:
CellMark laboratories, who conducted the testing on the duct tape, found, red, blue, pink, purple and brown cloth fibers, and animal fur probably beaver.

Four red fibers from her Essential's sweater/jacket were found on the tape making ST opine that perhaps the tape was stuck to Patsy's sweater/jacket at some point. Maybe she wore the purple and pink gloves and that explains the presence of those fibers on the tape. LE has the gloves. It's on FFJ and will try to find link to the specific LE questioning asap. Maybe.

OMO

 

[Little Jedi]

:dunno:
Whatever happened to Camper ?

 

[bettybaby00]

Was flipping through Kolar's book, and came across this tidbit. Obviously I hadn't forgotten about the fibers on the sticky side of the tape, but sometimes I feel the details get lost amid the counter arguments against the evidence.

This is based on the presentation made by BPD to the DAs office, detailing all the case evidence, supporting the need to convene a GJ. (June '98)

A detailed analysis was provided regarding key pieces of evidence, which included the long-delayed examination of fibers found on the sticky side of the duct tape used to silence JonBenét: The results had finally returned from the lab. Only days before the presentation, BPD investigators had learned that fibers from Patsy Ramsey&#8217;s black and red Essentials jacket were consistent with those found on the duct tape. This suggested that Patsy had been in direct personal contact with the duct tape used to cover her daughter&#8217;s mouth, an element believed to have been used in the staging of the crime. She purportedly had never been to the basement on the morning of the kidnapping when the tape had been recovered. How could the transfer of this fiber evidence take place if it was the intruder who had brought the tape to the home during the kidnapping?

Emphasis mine...

I just noticed the full title of the thread, I'm not suggesting this is new evidence. It just seemed an appropriate thread

 

[DeeDee249]

Was flipping through Kolar's book, and came across this tidbit. Obviously I hadn't forgotten about the fibers on the sticky side of the tape, but sometimes I feel the details get lost amid the counter arguments against the evidence.

This is based on the presentation made by BPD to the DAs office, detailing all the case evidence, supporting the need to convene a GJ. (June '98)



Emphasis mine...

I just noticed the full title of the thread, I'm not suggesting this is new evidence. It just seemed an appropriate thread

I think one of the reasons Patsy threw herself on JB's body was so she could have a way to explain her fibers on JB's body. One problem- she overlooked the FACT that the tape was left behind in the basement and Patsy claimed to not have been in the basement that day/night, nor had she (by her own admission) ever worn that jacket in the basement or while painting- the same jacket fibers were found in the paint tote. She also overlooked the FACT that JB's body was covered by an afghan ad sweatshirt when she was on the living room floor.
As Patsy's fibers were ALSO found entwined in the knot of the ligature, she failed to explain how they got there when the knot was at the back of JB's neck- which was next to the floor. Impossible for Patsy's fibers to have gotten in those places simply from Patsy lying on her daughter's body. She had to have been THERE- handling the tape, cord and paint tote- THAT night or early the next morning.

 

[bettybaby00]

I think one of the reasons Patsy threw herself on JB's body was so she could have a way to explain her fibers on JB's body. One problem- she overlooked the FACT that the tape was left behind in the basement and Patsy claimed to not have been in the basement that day/night, nor had she (by her own admission) ever worn that jacket in the basement or while painting- the same jacket fibers were found in the paint tote. She also overlooked the FACT that JB's body was covered by an afghan ad sweatshirt when she was on the living room floor.
As Patsy's fibers were ALSO found entwined in the knot of the ligature, she failed to explain how they got there when the knot was at the back of JB's neck- which was next to the floor. Impossible for Patsy's fibers to have gotten in those places simply from Patsy lying on her daughter's body. She had to have been THERE- handling the tape, cord and paint tote- THAT night or early the next morning.

I know!! The rabbit hole reasoning makes it easy to loose sight of the obvious. For me anyway!

 

[Anti-K]

I know!! The rabbit hole reasoning makes it easy to loose sight of the obvious. For me anyway!

Why would Mrs Ramsey be wearing this jacket, in the basement, in the middle of the night, while garroting her daughter to death?
...

AK

 

[RUCertain]

Why would Mrs Ramsey be wearing this jacket, in the basement, in the middle of the night, while garroting her daughter to death?
...

AK

I wondered about that, too. I'm not certain about this, but I believe that the jacket wasn't necessarily an outdoor type of jacket, but more like a suit jacket as part of her outfit. I believe she was still wearing it when police arrived and throughout the day.

One of the things that has thrown me off was the hairs from an animal fur, possibly of a beaver, that were found. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[gramcracker]

I wondered about that, too. I'm not certain about this, but I believe that the jacket wasn't necessarily an outdoor type of jacket, but more like a suit jacket as part of her outfit. I believe she was still wearing it when police arrived and throughout the day.

One of the things that has thrown me off was the hairs from an animal fur, possibly of a beaver, that were found. Does anyone know anything about this?

you're right about the jacket. PR had some beaver boots but she never produced them for comparison
(and denied owning them)

 

[RUCertain]

you're right about the jacket. PR had some beaver boots but she never produced them for comparison
(and denied owning them)

Ahhh! Thanks. Maybe something like these?

Can anyone link me to any statements about the boots? I haven't come across that in my reading.

The more I think about it, I wonder if someone left that night to dispose of evidence. They had all the time in the world. It makes me wonder if there are any convenience stores or gas stations around there that would have had cameras.

 

[bettybaby00]

I wondered about that, too. I'm not certain about this, but I believe that the jacket wasn't necessarily an outdoor type of jacket, but more like a suit jacket as part of her outfit. I believe she was still wearing it when police arrived and throughout the day.

One of the things that has thrown me off was the hairs from an animal fur, possibly of a beaver, that were found. Does anyone know anything about this?

I doubt they were describing a coat . As for the mention of "beaver" fur, I know I just read about that, possibly ACandy?

Eta: there is also a picture from the Ws party showing what PR was wearing that night. Evidence of what she was dressed in the night of the 25th. I doubt they took pics of people on their coats.

 

[otg]

I don’t recall that Kolar addressed the issue of the beaver hair fiber evidence (I’ve loaned out my copy), but this is what Steve Thomas had to say about finding the origin of it:

As often happens when detectives start kicking around seemingly unrelated items, we figured out that Patsy’s fur boots might be a possible source for a beaver hair the FBI lab had identified on the sticky side of the tape that had been across JonBenet’s mouth. It could even have been a case-breaking discovery, and we should have been off and running with search warrants in hand to get those boots. But the DA’s office once again stopped us in our tracks by shrugging their shoulders and declining to proceed with a warrant.

When Detective Trujillo mentioned that Patsy had worn a pair of fur boots at her latest handwriting appearance, he sparked my recollection that Melinda Ramsey’s boyfriend, Stewart Long, had told me that when he arrived at the house on December 26, Patsy was standing out in front, wearing a fur coat.

Despite our repeated explanations during the rest of my association with the case, the DA’s office never pursued a search warrant for the fur coat or boots. To me, it was inexplicable.
​

:shakehead:

 

[Tawny]

And yet people claim the DA had no agenda. Mmkay.

 

[Frigga]

I don’t recall that Kolar addressed the issue of the beaver hair fiber evidence (I’ve loaned out my copy), but this is what Steve Thomas had to say about finding the origin of it:

As often happens when detectives start kicking around seemingly unrelated items, we figured out that Patsy’s fur boots might be a possible source for a beaver hair the FBI lab had identified on the sticky side of the tape that had been across JonBenet’s mouth. It could even have been a case-breaking discovery, and we should have been off and running with search warrants in hand to get those boots. But the DA’s office once again stopped us in our tracks by shrugging their shoulders and declining to proceed with a warrant.

When Detective Trujillo mentioned that Patsy had worn a pair of fur boots at her latest handwriting appearance, he sparked my recollection that Melinda Ramsey’s boyfriend, Stewart Long, had told me that when he arrived at the house on December 26, Patsy was standing out in front, wearing a fur coat.

Despite our repeated explanations during the rest of my association with the case, the DA’s office never pursued a search warrant for the fur coat or boots. To me, it was inexplicable.
​

:shakehead:

BBM There it is. Really. Wether or not there was mishandling of the scene by police or detectives the bottom line is the DA's office is what kept the Ramsey's free- free in life and free from prosecution. It really is despicable. I am so glad that Steve Thomas and James Kolar were brave enough to write about what they knew and saw. Some people at least tried to get justice for JonBenet... the Grand Jury, included. I wonder what Alex Hunter sees when he looks in the mirror?

 

[Tawny]

He probably sees a martyr, suffering for the injustices people put against him.

People like him rarely see themselves as the villain.

 

[bettybaby00]

I don’t recall that Kolar addressed the issue of the beaver hair fiber evidence (I’ve loaned out my copy), but this is what Steve Thomas had to say about finding the origin of it:

As often happens when detectives start kicking around seemingly unrelated items, we figured out that Patsy’s fur boots might be a possible source for a beaver hair the FBI lab had identified on the sticky side of the tape that had been across JonBenet’s mouth. It could even have been a case-breaking discovery, and we should have been off and running with search warrants in hand to get those boots. But the DA’s office once again stopped us in our tracks by shrugging their shoulders and declining to proceed with a warrant.

When Detective Trujillo mentioned that Patsy had worn a pair of fur boots at her latest handwriting appearance, he sparked my recollection that Melinda Ramsey’s boyfriend, Stewart Long, had told me that when he arrived at the house on December 26, Patsy was standing out in front, wearing a fur coat.

Despite our repeated explanations during the rest of my association with the case, the DA’s office never pursued a search warrant for the fur coat or boots. To me, it was inexplicable.
​

:shakehead:

Unbelievable!!!!!! I'll one-up your head shake with a :banghead:

 

[bettybaby00]

BBM There it is. Really. Wether or not there was mishandling of the scene by police or detectives the bottom line is the DA's office is what kept the Ramsey's free- free in life and free from prosecution. It really is despicable. I am so glad that Steve Thomas and James Kolar were brave enough to write about what they knew and saw. Some people at least tried to get justice for JonBenet... the Grand Jury, included. I wonder what Alex Hunter sees when he looks in the mirror?

Agreed with every word in this post.

I can't understand how people are unwilling to acknowledge that the DA failed on every level in his sworn duties as an elected official?

 

[RUCertain]

I don’t recall that Kolar addressed the issue of the beaver hair fiber evidence (I’ve loaned out my copy), but this is what Steve Thomas had to say about finding the origin of it:

As often happens when detectives start kicking around seemingly unrelated items, we figured out that Patsy’s fur boots might be a possible source for a beaver hair the FBI lab had identified on the sticky side of the tape that had been across JonBenet’s mouth. It could even have been a case-breaking discovery, and we should have been off and running with search warrants in hand to get those boots. But the DA’s office once again stopped us in our tracks by shrugging their shoulders and declining to proceed with a warrant.

When Detective Trujillo mentioned that Patsy had worn a pair of fur boots at her latest handwriting appearance, he sparked my recollection that Melinda Ramsey’s boyfriend, Stewart Long, had told me that when he arrived at the house on December 26, Patsy was standing out in front, wearing a fur coat.

Despite our repeated explanations during the rest of my association with the case, the DA’s office never pursued a search warrant for the fur coat or boots. To me, it was inexplicable.
​

:shakehead:

Thank you. I've only read two books: the Ramsey's book and Schiller's book. Our library doesn't have Steve Thomas' book, or Kolar's. Actually, I went to the book store today and they didn't have any Jonbenet books. I have to wait a little while to get another one anyway.

Actually, if they have pictures of PR wearing beaver fur, I'm not sure why they would need much else.

 

[DeeDee249]

I doubt they were describing a coat . As for the mention of "beaver" fur, I know I just read about that, possibly ACandy?

Eta: there is also a picture from the Ws party showing what PR was wearing that night. Evidence of what she was dressed in the night of the 25th. I doubt they took pics of people on their coats.

They were not describing a COAT. Patsy's jacket was an acrylic fleece jacket that was meant to be worn as part of an outfit- much like a suit jacket. It was made by the "Essentials" brand - I had one similar years ago of the same brand. This type of fleece jacket was meant to be worn with a blouse, shirt or sweater under it. It was not a winter coat.

 

[RUCertain]

.....I had one similar years ago of the same brand. ........

Uh-huh. And where were you that dreadful night?