Tempo Restaurant: What Happened There?

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jamicat said:
That you, and others can see possibilities of her of not only going arm in arm, willing with JM (proof positive on camera), of having a drink with JM( likely though not proven, given JM makes that stop which is documented , at Tempo and buys 2 dirnks), but also maybe she was out looking for someone with whom to hook up and left with JM for those reasons and it is not an Abduction with Intent to Defile. Maybe she agreed to go out and "party" with JM But to end up the way she did is a crime, murder, and that part is what LE is hopefully going to prove The rest doesn't really matter. So what if she agreed to go with him for more than a ride?
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With all due respect, because she is seen walking with JM, is not "proof positive" she went willingly with him. She was not exactly "arm in arm", it was reported she could barely walk and JM had his arm around her and was totally supporting her, and he was heard talking to her. I don't interpret that as proof positive that she went with him willingly. Just because she was seen putting one foot in front of the other, does not prove she went willingly. JM could just as easily have been telling her 'she better keep walking', while he threatened her the entire time. It was apparent to the "bouncer" she was barely able to walk. I don't think anyone can attest to a "proof positive" regarding her willingness at that time to accompany JM. JMHO.
 
I can't tell if we're all agreeing or disagreeing on the main likely course of events. I must be tired :) In any case, regarding JM's charges here, I believe some people with law knowledge more than I, have said Abduction with Intent to Defile can not only mean someone going unwillingly with the person, but also being held captive once they are in their presence. In which case, whether she initially went with him willingly or not doesn't actually matter in the long run I suppose. But I am curious.

I personally don't think HG would have wanted to hang out with him further- i.e wanted to leave with him initially for further companionship. My best guess at this point is that he was a ride. A seemingly nice guy with a ride who was able to care for her when she was nearly incapacitated apparently. Although I'm still wondering if the Tempo witness may have overstated her condition. I have no real basis for thinking they wouldn't have been accurate, other than eye witness accounts can sometimes be off and she was not in such a state 40 minutes prior. But a drug is certainly a possibility.
 
I think he drugged her in the drink he bought at Tempo. I think MH fought like heck for her life even though she was intoxicated, and attacking her ended up being much more work than he anticipated, so he "learned" that he needed to subdue his victims even more beforehand and proceeded accordingly with HG (and who knows who else).
 
4MYGUYS said:
With all due respect, because she is seen walking with JM, is not "proof positive" she went willingly with him. She was not exactly "arm in arm", it was reported she could barely walk and JM had his arm around her and was totally supporting her, and he was heard talking to her. I don't interpret that as proof positive that she went with him willingly. Just because she was seen putting one foot in front of the other, does not prove she went willingly. JM could just as easily have been telling her 'she better keep walking', while he threatened her the entire time. It was apparent to the "bouncer" she was barely able to walk. I don't think anyone can attest to a "proof positive" regarding her willingness at that time to accompany JM. JMHO.
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She was seen on video walking with JM just fine. WG, who saw JM greet her, put his arm around her and walk with her, thought he was a friend. Absolutely no one who saw them walking through the mall thought she was being forced to go with him; quite the contrary She was not seen with him while he got the drinks at Tempo. Could have slipped away if she wanted to go. It wasn't until the very end of their time at the mall that she looked incapacitated. Looking at what happened there, she isn't looking very different from many young women who go out for the night with a guy and had a few. There is absolutely no sign that she was forced to go with him at all. No one thought it was an issue. No one callled the police or security. Fit well within normalcy.

What is curious is the discrepancy of how she walked, moved BEFORE the time JM went into Tempo, and after he came out There is no video of her then, so only eye witness accounts are there. There is no proof she drank ANYTHING at Tempo. No one reports seeing her drinking, or JM, for that matter. So can't even hit JM for giving someone underage a drink; a bunch of UVA students already did that. For all we know the drinks, the fatigue, something she ate earlier, hit her wrong. All assumptions based on eye withness descriptions. B

So, no, I don't think she was abducted. I think she willingly went with him, likely because of a promise of a ride, but that is just a guess on my part. That she suddenly wasn't feel ing well and able would be all the more reason, JM who was with her earlier would help her to his car. I don't see anything that will stick to JM about what happened in the mall. It's what happened afterwards that led to a dead Hannah that is the issue.
 
Conductor71 said:
I find it really odd that JM could slip out any door at Tempo with drinks given that is against the law in VA? New Orleans has very liberal open container laws, VA does not that I know of. At bars, especially ones in college towns that are not known student hang outs, employees /bouncers get stationed at or near any and all entrances and exits. They check too. This has been my experience living and imbibing in a college town. Bars are pretty vigilant about not serving minors in any way lest they lose their licenses. This is yet another reason why students party in residences, not in restaurant bars.A bouncer supposedly saw them leaving and didn't notice drinks in hand or question where those drinks were purchased? Highly unlikely he left that bar with drinks in hand, IMO.

According to VA statutes it is illegal for him to do so, and there are witnesses. Again, why would a predator draw even more attention to himself this way? Why was JM not also charged with this? This would be much more indicative of intent to defile than a solitary reckless driving charge.

Va. Code §4.1-308
A. If any person takes a drink of alcoholic beverages or offers a drink thereof to another, whether accepted or not, at or in any public place, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.


http://www.ncsl.org/research/financ.../open-container-and-consumption-statutes.aspx
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Wasn't he reported to have bought beer? Growlers are permitted in VA.
 
jamicat said:
That you, and others can see possibilities of her of not only going arm in arm, willing with JM (proof positive on camera), of having a drink with JM( likely though not proven, given JM makes that stop which is documented , at Tempo and buys 2 dirnks), but also maybe she was out looking for someone with whom to hook up and left with JM for those reasons and it is not an Abduction with Intent to Defile. Maybe she agreed to go out and "party" with JM But to end up the way she did is a crime, murder, and that part is what LE is hopefully going to prove The rest doesn't really matter. So what if she agreed to go with him for more than a ride?
Click to expand...

Even if she went willingly with JLM, once he prevents her from leaving, it's abduction.
 
jamicat said:
She was seen on video walking with JM just fine. WG, who saw JM greet her, put his arm around her and walk with her, thought he was a friend. Absolutely no one who saw them walking through the mall thought she was being forced to go with him; quite the contrary She was not seen with him while he got the drinks at Tempo. Could have slipped away if she wanted to go. It wasn't until the very end of their time at the mall that she looked incapacitated. Looking at what happened there, she isn't looking very different from many young women who go out for the night with a guy and had a few. There is absolutely no sign that she was forced to go with him at all. No one thought it was an issue. No one callled the police or security. Fit well within normalcy.

What is curious is the discrepancy of how she walked, moved BEFORE the time JM went into Tempo, and after he came out There is no video of her then, so only eye witness accounts are there. There is no proof she drank ANYTHING at Tempo. No one reports seeing her drinking, or JM, for that matter. So can't even hit JM for giving someone underage a drink; a bunch of UVA students already did that. For all we know the drinks, the fatigue, something she ate earlier, hit her wrong. All assumptions based on eye withness descriptions. B

So, no, I don't think she was abducted. I think she willingly went with him, likely because of a promise of a ride, but that is just a guess on my part. That she suddenly wasn't feel ing well and able would be all the more reason, JM who was with her earlier would help her to his car. I don't see anything that will stick to JM about what happened in the mall. It's what happened afterwards that led to a dead Hannah that is the issue.
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"willingly" to me says she was able to make a decision, and from the bouncer's report she was barely standing and appeared very drunk. I do accept the bouncer's eye witness statement, and I am not convinced at that time, leaving Tempo's with JM, she was able to make a decision to go with JM. She was led away that fateful night by JM, but how "willing" she was will never be known. And as we all know, as soon as she was prevented from leaving, it is abduction. So if she was
abducted at that moment, or a few minutes later, or whenever, he did abduct her, as certainly she did not choose to stay and be murdered.
edit: gotta go world series game 7
 
4MYGUYS said:
"willingly" to me says she was able to make a decision, and from the bouncer's report she was barely standing and appeared very drunk. I do accept the bouncer's eye witness statement, and I am not convinced at that time, leaving Tempo's with JM, she was able to make a decision to go with JM. She was led away that fateful night by JM, but how "willing" she was will never be known. And as we all know, as soon as she was prevented from leaving, it is abduction. So if she was
abducted at that moment, or a few minutes later, or whenever, he did abduct her, as certainly she did not choose to stay and be murdered.
edit: gotta go world series game 7
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The tapes, witnesses, including WG clearly show she went along with JM. She was left alone somewhere while JM ordered drinks and paid for them. The employees in Tempo all insist Hannah was not in the restaurants. Though I'm not convinced of that, she was likely not front and center, but off away from JM whether in the restaurant or outside of it. Did not ask anyone for help, say she wanted to get away from JM or make a run of it.

By the time it was 1:40, and she then was incapacitated, it makes sense for JM to take her home or to some safe haven. That he did not is the big issue here. If he had taken her home at that time or somewhere safe, he'd have been considered chivalrous. That she ended up dead is the problem. No one who saw Hannah right outside of Tempo, and there were quite a few people milling around there, felt that she was being abducted, that maybe security or the police should be called. It's not at all unusual that there are sloshed, incapacitated, people needing help home after last call, and Hannah fit right in with them.
 
galaxygal said:
Hmm, if it is a credible source ... A two month ban and "He always came in looking for a victim.’”

I wonder if the bouncer went to LE with this info when Hannah went missing.
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Two month ban from where?
 
Emaa said:
Wasn't he reported to have bought beer? Growlers are permitted in VA.
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Wouldn't someone have seen him carrying a growler? Plus most bars do not sell beer by the growler...unless they are also a brewery.
 
MJPeony said:
I don't think she would have wanted to drink with Jesse either. I think she was either lost and was thrilled to get an offer from "a friendly guy who used to be a cab driver", or she was out that night looking for someone. I've thought the latter since the beginning, but now I'm not so sure. There's been some great discussion here that is starting to make me think she was truly lost from the beginning. But she left that last party (withOUT the guy who offered to go with her for some reason). So.... MO is either 1) she wanted to be alone and just got lost, or 2) she was looking for someone.

But regardless, I don't think she would have accepted more alcohol from JM at that point. Just doesn't make sense to me (unless she knew him). How she got to the point she could barely stand up though by 1:40 am I'm not sure. A drug he slipped her in water? A drug she took willingly? Just shear exhaustion at that point b/c of her past 2 hours and having been drinking? Is it possible the witness at Tempo over-stated her condition? (in that perhaps it really wasn't totally slumped-over-all-out-noodle, but more I'm-so-tired-please-take-me-to-the-car). Anyway, haven't fully formed a theory yet on all of that yet.
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BBM Perhaps she left the party to get away from the guy who offered to go with her. "Back in the day", I can remember leaving places to avoid guys who wouldn't take no for an answer. She may have even texted a friend to say something like "this guy is driving me crazy" and the friend suggested she walk down to the mall to meet them. I could also see LJ approaching her with the statement "hey, don't I recognize you from the hospital?", and her feeling relieved to find someone she might know.

Regarding her fairly sudden change in condition, I have been researching some possibilities. I wonder if HG smoked occasionally? I found the attached link to a date rape drug that is increasing in use. It can be added to a drink, added to a cigarette or a joint and smoked, or it can be injected. Any of those methods could be used by LJ and go unnoticed. Particularly if he offered a "smoke" to HG. http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/drugs/club-drugs/ketamine/ jmho
 
ThinkHard said:
Two month ban from where?
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JM was banned from Tempo bar for two months because the bouncer believed he was making people uncomfortable according to this article
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...runkest-Girl-Regularly-at-Local-Bar-Last-Call

Seems not everyone who was familiar with him had the "gentle giant" opinion. Wonder if his other side came out when he was drinking. The reports of his inappropriate behavior in Tempo both the night Hannah went missing and previous nights telling IMO.
 
ThinkHard said:
Wouldn't someone have seen him carrying a growler? Plus most bars do not sell beer by the growler...unless they are also a brewery.
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Not just breweries; I mention that because it's been posted by locals that craft beers are popular there.
 
jamicat said:
She was seen on video walking with JM just fine. WG, who saw JM greet her, put his arm around her and walk with her, thought he was a friend. Absolutely no one who saw them walking through the mall thought she was being forced to go with him; quite the contrary She was not seen with him while he got the drinks at Tempo. Could have slipped away if she wanted to go. It wasn't until the very end of their time at the mall that she looked incapacitated. Looking at what happened there, she isn't looking very different from many young women who go out for the night with a guy and had a few. There is absolutely no sign that she was forced to go with him at all. No one thought it was an issue. No one callled the police or security. Fit well within normalcy.

What is curious is the discrepancy of how she walked, moved BEFORE the time JM went into Tempo, and after he came out There is no video of her then, so only eye witness accounts are there. There is no proof she drank ANYTHING at Tempo. No one reports seeing her drinking, or JM, for that matter. So can't even hit JM for giving someone underage a drink; a bunch of UVA students already did that. For all we know the drinks, the fatigue, something she ate earlier, hit her wrong. All assumptions based on eye withness descriptions. B

So, no, I don't think she was abducted. I think she willingly went with him, likely because of a promise of a ride, but that is just a guess on my part. That she suddenly wasn't feel ing well and able would be all the more reason, JM who was with her earlier would help her to his car. I don't see anything that will stick to JM about what happened in the mall. It's what happened afterwards that led to a dead Hannah that is the issue.
Click to expand...

Just because she initially went willingly with him does not mean he didn't abduct her. If she got into his car willingly assuming he is giving her a ride somewhere but then he wouldn't let her leave that is an abduction and this is likely what happened. Basically once he prevents her from leaving it is abduction. He was the last person she was ever seen with.
 
Hey guys, is there another discussion thread for Hannah or is hers still closed? I have been looking and just don't see it. Want to make sure that I didn't miss a new thread somewhere. Thanks ya'll!!!
 
jojo87 said:
JM was banned from Tempo bar for two months because the bouncer believed he was making people uncomfortable according to this article
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...runkest-Girl-Regularly-at-Local-Bar-Last-Call

Seems not everyone who was familiar with him had the "gentle giant" opinion. Wonder if his other side came out when he was drinking. The reports of his inappropriate behavior in Tempo both the night Hannah went missing and previous nights telling IMO.
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That was a Rapture bar, not Tempo
 
I believe Hannah was willing to walk beside JM in public. I believe she was willing to sit with JM in public, and drink with JM in public, and I believe that's what she did at Tempo. I believe she felt safe doing that in public. I do not believe she ever left the public Downtown Mall area willingly with JM -- I believe she was completely incapacitated and not able to consent or protest when JM "helped" her walk away. I believe he used deception -- via words, alcohol, drugging her, any/all of the above -- to take her where she did not want to go. That is abduction. Nothing willing about it. IMO.
 
travelbug said:
BBM Perhaps she left the party to get away from the guy who offered to go with her. "Back in the day", I can remember leaving places to avoid guys who wouldn't take no for an answer. She may have even texted a friend to say something like "this guy is driving me crazy" and the friend suggested she walk down to the mall to meet them. I could also see LJ approaching her with the statement "hey, don't I recognize you from the hospital?", and her feeling relieved to find someone she might know.

Regarding her fairly sudden change in condition, I have been researching some possibilities. I wonder if HG smoked occasionally? I found the attached link to a date rape drug that is increasing in use. It can be added to a drink, added to a cigarette or a joint and smoked, or it can be injected. Any of those methods could be used by LJ and go unnoticed. Particularly if he offered a "smoke" to HG. http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/drugs/club-drugs/ketamine/ jmho
Click to expand...

Why would JLM have known Hannah from the hospital? I find it hard to believe he would use a line like that unless we know Hannah to have been at uva hospital regularly. Do we have any reason to believe she was? Even if her major was involved in the medical fields, as only a second year student I doubt she would have any classes that took her there.
 
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