Tempo Restaurant: What Happened There?

[Jmm124567]

I believe Hannah was willing to walk beside JM in public. I believe she was willing to sit with JM in public, and drink with JM in public, and I believe that's what she did at Tempo. I believe she felt safe doing that in public. I do not believe she ever left the public Downtown Mall area willingly with JM -- I believe she was completely incapacitated and not able to consent or protest when JM "helped" her walk away. I believe he used deception -- via words, alcohol, drugging her, any/all of the above -- to take her where she did not want to go. That is abduction. Nothing willing about it. IMO.

There are two possibilities here:

1. She was abducted right when they walked out of Tempo because she was too incapacitated to consent
2. She willingly got into his car and the abduction took place in the car by him not allowing her to leave

 

[ThinkHard]

JM was banned from Tempo bar for two months because the bouncer believed he was making people uncomfortable according to this article
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...runkest-Girl-Regularly-at-Local-Bar-Last-Call

Seems not everyone who was familiar with him had the "gentle giant" opinion. Wonder if his other side came out when he was drinking. The reports of his inappropriate behavior in Tempo both the night Hannah went missing and previous nights telling IMO.

Very interesting. Thanks for the link....it doesn't actually seem to say it was Tempo in the article, it just said a friend, and bouncer at a local bar he'd frequent, my guess is it could be any number of places might not be Tempo but it still doesn't change the message....I'm thinking though....and trying to think just from my own experience working at bars in Cville, what actions would have prompted my manager from banning someone, and I can't help but think that it had to be slightly more personal then just how he was making patrons feel...what I mean is I feel that perhaps JLM was making female employees uncomfortable and they kept complaint, he was confronted about it, and it got ugly, so it led to them just banning him, or he made a patron who that bouncer new personally feel uncomfortable.

Also if it was Tempo...and they knew of his affinity to target waspy looking white girls, why why why in gods name would no one have been more concerned when they saw him with Hannah that night, in her state! They might not have thought murder...but if they knew his track record, and saw her state....they knew it was not a good.

 

[ThinkHard]

Not just breweries; I mention that because it's been posted by locals that craft beers are popular there.

Yes I have said that. I guess I was just confused because people where discussing how he could have left tempo with the drinks he bought without being seen. And then you threw out growler...which for that response made little sense to me....because not only would a growler not have been sold there, but it would have been more obvious if he was carrying. So I was just confused as to why you would have thought a growler would have even been a possibility in that situation.

 

[Jmm124567]

Very interesting. Thanks for the link....it doesn't actually seem to say it was Tempo in the article, it just said a friend, and bouncer at a local bar he'd frequent, my guess is it could be any number of places might not be Tempo but it still doesn't change the message....I'm thinking though....and trying to think just from my own experience working at bars in Cville, what actions would have prompted my manager from banning someone, and I can't help but think that it had to be slightly more personal then just how he was making patrons feel...what I mean is I feel that perhaps JLM was making female employees uncomfortable and they kept complaint, he was confronted about it, and it got ugly, so it led to them just banning him, or he made a patron who that bouncer new personally feel uncomfortable.

Also if it was Tempo...and they knew of his affinity to target waspy looking white girls, why why why in gods name would no one have been more concerned when they saw him with Hannah that night, in her state! They might not have thought murder...but if they knew his track record, and saw her state....they knew it was not a good.

It appears he did make some girls uncomfortable. A part of the article says: He told him, you're not welcome here. You’ve made too many of the girls uncomfortable. I can't let you back in here.

 

[ThinkHard]

That was a Rapture bar, not Tempo

This is even creepier to me!!! I don't know if any of you remember...but at one point I mentioned that when I watched the videos of her at the downtown mall it was WG that made me feel creeped out...but he also seemed really familiar to me....the build, how he carried himself, his walk, the arc of the shoulders.....if I had been at the downtown mall and I saw WG moving (at least from a distance) I would have guaranteed it was this person.....ok but get this.....the guy I'm thinking of would not only have known LJ, but he was also worked at Rapture!!! .....in a leadership roll...and has the build to play bouncer when needed.....

Probably nothing but weird.

 

[ThinkHard]

I believe Hannah was willing to walk beside JM in public. I believe she was willing to sit with JM in public, and drink with JM in public, and I believe that's what she did at Tempo. I believe she felt safe doing that in public. I do not believe she ever left the public Downtown Mall area willingly with JM -- I believe she was completely incapacitated and not able to consent or protest when JM "helped" her walk away. I believe he used deception -- via words, alcohol, drugging her, any/all of the above -- to take her where she did not want to go. That is abduction. Nothing willing about it. IMO.

I sort of however think that if she agreed to walk with, wait around and drink with him, she wouldn't have done that if she wasn't planning to leave the downtown mall area with him. No one made her wait outside Tempo or go into tempo...(whatever the truth there is)....I think if she was willing to wait for him.....so close to closing time....she had planned on leaving with him....obviously she did t know his plans....but I just don't see her agreeing to Tempo...without having a clue where she was going after Tempo...I think he either warmed himself to Hannah and made her feel comfortable...or he was somehow his face was already familiar to her....so she trusted him.

 

[jamicat]

Though it is possible that JM knew Hannah from somewhere,and vice versa and UVAMC is one of the possibilities, it would not likely be from classes that she would take there as she had just started her second year. But most hospital employees, as well as other personnel at places that require prominent ids for access, have a big photo ID with the place of employment clearly right there. A lot of people keep the ID on a lanyard on a belt or belt loop from what I have seen. JM could have just flashed that to Hannah as a reassurance that he was a reliable type of person. Or not.

All of this is speculation as to why a smart UVA coed would go arm in arm with someone she just meets in a mall. We have the meeting on tape. We can see it happening. WG saw the meeting and said that Hannah looked like she was troubled, was going to approach her, when she and JM met and it looked like they knew each other. There clearly was no sign that she was coerced into going with him. Reasons:

1) He said, "what's the matter, sweetheart? Can I help you?" or that sort of thing in a honeyed, reassuring tone, and upon hearing she's lost, he immediately tells her he can help with that." Has a car, can give her a ride, where you need to go, Oh, that's so close, you go to UVA, I work at the medical center for the U. " Maybe a quick flash of the ID. More banter, "I used to drive a car. Let's get a quick drink first, I'm thirsty and you look like you can use one too. I'm JM. We'll get you fixed up in no time, Car's just outside the mall area. Glad to help a pretty lady like you. Going right by there anyways" Yada, yada. No telling what he said, but you get the gist. Sounds good to her. She is only a few miles, a few minutes by car to where she intended to be. Guy works at med center, was a cabby, sounds so nice. And a cold beer would taste so very good by then. It's not like he's taking her to some back alley bar for it either. She's in a relatively safe place, people see her with him.

2) She was so out of it that she just blindly went with him as she was getting close to collapse which she is starting to do by the time she leaves the mall area from eye witness description

3) She was planning to meet him at the mall all along.

4) She was looking for a pick up, or drugs and he met her standards, so off she goes with him

5) She 's feeling lost, lonely , confused and has lost so much time, and she meets a nice guy so goes with him to talk it over and whatever since she missed so much of the party back at the Corner, or had some incident occur earlier where she wanted to get away from classmates and peers.

Whether she actually "knew" JM from some earlier encounters or if he just was familiar looking (he is hard to miss and apparently around Charlottesville a lot) from something, we don't know. If he shows up on her cell phone record, computer, LE will certainly find out about that. If he's just a familiar sight, or some contact for contraband, probably not. We'lll likely never know exactly why she went along with him.

 

[jbowman55]

Even if she went willingly with JLM, once he prevents her from leaving, it's abduction.

And most certainly once he's not taking her where she's asked to go, but where he insists that she go, it's abduction.

I'm copying this post from another thread, since this thread seems more active and my questions are relevant to this thread. If this bring any epiphanies to you, please comment!

**Begin copied post**

I have been thinking about the timing of events on the Downtown Mall.

We all know of the video at Sal's that captured Hannah, WG, JM, and the group of guys following Hannah at 1:06 am.

We know of Tempo's statement that JM paid for two drinks at 1:10 am.

That's four minutes to walk from Sal's to Tempo, decide to order drinks, decide which drinks to order, walk inside, place order, receive drinks, and pay for drinks. Fast, huh?

Then there's a lull in things. Looking at the street view on Google Maps, the street in front of Tempo isn't designed for automobile traffic, so I suppose there could be people milling around, but it also isn't like the Downtown Mall, where there is landscaping, tables, little conversation areas with nice places to sit down and enjoy a drink.

So there's time between 1:10 am and 1:40 or 1:45 am, 30 to 35 minutes, where HG and JM are apparently just milling around outside, since the door tender at Tempo saw HG practically incapacitated at 1:40ish. During this time I have supposed that JM sent text to Hannah's friends after he either borrowed or took her phone. I guess I had just pictured in my mind that there would have been a time that the two of them sat down together and were talking, a more comfortable situation than just milling around in the street.

So did they walk up to the Mall, sit down and have a conversation, and then walk back? Or were they just standing around outside Tempo that whole time? If so, then how was JM able to spike HG's drink, borrow her cell phone, send a text that wasn't what he probably represented it to be, etc. There's something about that that I just can't reconcile in my mind.

What were they doing? What were they talking about all that time? What could they possibly have in common to keep Hannah "attached" to JM for that long that she didn't just call someone for a ride or try to communicate with friends again? Why would HG have let JM lead her down that creepy side street away from the Mall in the first place? (assuming that's what happened, but I tell you, I've walked 2nd and 3rd Streets in that area on the way to the Paramount; that late at night I know those streets would be seriously creepy to me.)

I don't get it. Maybe locals can weigh in and change the picture I have of the area in front of Tempo at that time on a Friday night/Saturday morning.

**End copied post**

The more I've thought about my own post, the more I'm convinced that HG was inside Tempo. Is it allowed that I've said that? What do you think?

Also someone here at WS mentioned having read that HG was prone to fainting from low blood pressure problems. I've read that myself, but don't remember where, and don't know if it's a rumor or a statement from someone who actually knows that to be a fact. However, it does bring up the possibility that there could be other reasons for her to be unsteady on her feet. I still think it's likely that she was roofied or something, but did want to introduce the other possibility.

I do most definitely think JM learns from his past experiences. That's been brought up over and over, how he seems to have refined his modus operandi every time he tries one of these "expeditions" and something about it comes back to bite him. Imo, that makes it even more likely that he did something to Hannah to make sure she wouldn't fight back. Morgan would have been too much of a handful.

I think Morgan ran, by the way, and when JM caught her, well, that's how she ended up where she was, and in the condition she was in. She may not even have been dead yet when he left her. Poor Morgan.

 

[ThinkHard]

It appears he did make some girls uncomfortable. A part of the article says: He told him, you're not welcome here. You’ve made too many of the girls uncomfortable. I can't let you back in here.

I was not disputing that now was I. What I was questioning was wether it really would have been just observing or hearing customer complaints that would have caused the ban itself....and I tend to think not....I think the ban wasnt just the result of what customers complained about...but rather I feel like a specific incidence would have happened to prompt the ban....for example he was asked to chill, and things got intense with this bouncer, so they banned him....just as an example. In an article, I doubt the bouncer would have gotten into all that, but rather summed it up as the reason was he was making girls uncomfortable.

 

[razzledazzle]

^^^^^ jbowman55, I definitely believe she was inside. I also believe that LE probably has a witness that will testify to this.

 

[jamicat]

There are two possibilities here:

1. She was abducted right when they walked out of Tempo because she was too incapacitated to consent
2. She willingly got into his car and the abduction took place in the car by him not allowing her to leave

1. So what was JM supposed to do with Hannah when she was so incapacitated? He had walked with her arm in arm, talked with her, maybe had a drink with her, all very willingly You don't suddenly become "abducted" when you go willingly with someone and then get too messed up to consent to much of anything, and the person gives you a ride to safe harbor. Also, no one is ever going to know what she consented to doing during that stroll with JM and while she was with him around the Tempo area (maybe in there). That she AFTERWARDS became incapacitated, does not mean JM has to call the cops or dump her right there Absolutely not Of course, he take her to his car. The problem is what did he do with her AFTERWARDS. For all we know, all he did up to the point of taking her to his car, was perfectly fine and no one would have any problem IF he had just dropped her off safely somewhere and it's so noted. That the next time she is seen, she's in skeletal remains shape is a very big problem for JM, LE and everyone. What happened later, is what puts the actions at Tempo and the mall in question as to motive.

2. I think she did willingly get into his car, since she was so incapacitated according to witness description, that she would be unlikely to do otherwise. And that 's ok. If he were taking her somewhere safe or where she had requested, no big deal as discussed in 1) above. The thing is, we don't know if she even got into the car willingly or whether he did not allow her to leave the car. We have no idea what transpired there. My guess is that she dozed off or passed out once she got into the car, given her state and the lack of any report of any ruckus in the area where JM's car was. I don't think J had any issues with her wanting to leave. If he had done as a good samaritan would have done, he'd have driven her to wherever she requested or called the authorities and say he had a woman who passed out on him. If she'd given him her address, taken her home. He was a cabby. He knows well what to do in such situations. The problem is that there is no evidence he did that and where she ended up instead was dead.

So whatever happened to Hannah at Tempo is not particularly relevant as nothing is provable other than she wasn't fighting him, and it looked like he was helping her and was legitimately with her. No alarms rasied at all. No LE callled, security or EMTs notified. Just another drunk during weekend partying and drinking. Probably did not raise much of an eyebrow. JM attracted more attention with negative behavior Before he was with Hannah than when he was with her from the time line we have of his evening out. Note the checker' report of how he was bothering people earlier and lack of any such comments when he was out there after last call with Hannah.

 

[ThinkHard]

And most certainly once he's not taking her where she's asked to go, but where he insists that she go, it's abduction.

I'm copying this post from another thread, since this thread seems more active and my questions are relevant to this thread. If this bring any epiphanies to you, please comment!

**Begin copied post**

I have been thinking about the timing of events on the Downtown Mall.

We all know of the video at Sal's that captured Hannah, WG, JM, and the group of guys following Hannah at 1:06 am.

We know of Tempo's statement that JM paid for two drinks at 1:10 am.

That's four minutes to walk from Sal's to Tempo, decide to order drinks, decide which drinks to order, walk inside, place order, receive drinks, and pay for drinks. Fast, huh?

Then there's a lull in things. Looking at the street view on Google Maps, the street in front of Tempo isn't designed for automobile traffic, so I suppose there could be people milling around, but it also isn't like the Downtown Mall, where there is landscaping, tables, little conversation areas with nice places to sit down and enjoy a drink.

So there's time between 1:10 am and 1:40 or 1:45 am, 30 to 35 minutes, where HG and JM are apparently just milling around outside, since the door tender at Tempo saw HG practically incapacitated at 1:40ish. During this time I have supposed that JM sent text to Hannah's friends after he either borrowed or took her phone. I guess I had just pictured in my mind that there would have been a time that the two of them sat down together and were talking, a more comfortable situation than just milling around in the street.

So did they walk up to the Mall, sit down and have a conversation, and then walk back? Or were they just standing around outside Tempo that whole time? If so, then how was JM able to spike HG's drink, borrow her cell phone, send a text that wasn't what he probably represented it to be, etc. There's something about that that I just can't reconcile in my mind.

What were they doing? What were they talking about all that time? What could they possibly have in common to keep Hannah "attached" to JM for that long that she didn't just call someone for a ride or try to communicate with friends again? Why would HG have let JM lead her down that creepy side street away from the Mall in the first place? (assuming that's what happened, but I tell you, I've walked 2nd and 3rd Streets in that area on the way to the Paramount; that late at night I know those streets would be seriously creepy to me.)

I don't get it. Maybe locals can weigh in and change the picture I have of the area in front of Tempo at that time on a Friday night/Saturday morning.

**End copied post**

The more I've thought about my own post, the more I'm convinced that HG was inside Tempo. Is it allowed that I've said that? What do you think?

100% agree she was inside tempo....and I think they are lying BIG so the ABC can't bust them. I think if she didn't have a fake, JLM snuck her in the side door. This timeline has bothered me too.

The idea that Hannah would have waited for him outside that long, alone....makes no sense.

 

[jbowman55]

This is even creepier to me!!! I don't know if any of you remember...but at one point I mentioned that when I watched the videos of her at the downtown mall it was WG that made me feel creeped out...but he also seemed really familiar to me....the build, how he carried himself, his walk, the arc of the shoulders.....if I had been at the downtown mall and I saw WG moving (at least from a distance) I would have guaranteed it was this person.....ok but get this.....the guy I'm thinking of would not only have known LJ, but he was also worked at Rapture!!! .....in a leadership roll...and has the build to play bouncer when needed.....

Probably nothing but weird.

I do so wish you'd call this in.

 

[jamicat]

And most certainly once he's not taking her where she's asked to go, but where he insists that she go, it's abduction.


The more I've thought about my own post, the more I'm convinced that HG was inside Tempo. Is it allowed that I've said that? What do you think?
.

Edited to remove copied post and BBM

I think Hannah was inside Tempo too. But there is no proof. There are no cameras inside Tempo. There is an official statement given by Tempo that equivocally states that not one single employee there saw her. And that has not been refuted by any employee. The checker at the door states that she did not notice letting Hannah insiide, never saw her before until after last call, and then noticed her outside Tempo where a lot of people were milling around. If you read the story, she does state she saw JM come out of a "side door" and that Hannah was with him, but the article does not make clear what side door. "Abby", the checker at Tempo, also states that she does not remember seeing JM come inside that last time, when clearly he was in there as employees there do say he was, and that he bought two drinks and can even produce the credit card receipt used to pay for them.

Longo has said that one witness says she saw Hannah in Tempo, but that is vehemently refuted by the manager who flat out says that witness, a customer, was mistaken and that there was another person in there who was dressed similarly. Given the reliabilty of eye witness accounts, hard to say. We can see first hand how WG was so way off in describing JM since we can see the actual video footage of what transpired and the discrepancy. If it came head to head, the witness saying she saw Hannah and the employees and others in there saying that person seated where that witness said she saw her and that other woman who was so similarly dressed stepping forward would have to all be assessed, and I doubt one singular report by someone at that time at a bar, likely having had a few drinks would hold up.

My guess, and it can't be proven, is that there is a side door to Tempos, and JM used it. Hard for a checker to miss JM, IMO, so he must have gone in that way. I don't know the layout of Tempo, but my guess is that there might be an area where Hannah could wait, maybe close to the restrooms and she might have even gone in there while JM got the drinks. Nobody saw what JM did with the drinks. No one saw him drink them or remembers what happened. Again, no cameras. Whether JM chugged them down at the bar , or brought them to Hannah off the main floor of the bar/restaraunt, and gave her one, whether he spiked hers, whether she demurred and he drank them both, or took them to the car, no one knows for sure. I doubt he took them, as he had his hands full with Hannah, and she certainly had no place to hide them. The bar should have served drinks in a bottle opened or in glasses, which make it all the more trickier to transport. My theory, for what it's worth is that he spiked her drink, gave it to her in that "off area', which she, thirsty, gratelully accepted, and it was a matter of minutes before it took effect, being so the nature of "roofies" and he then went out that side door as "Abby: so states, with Hannah now all woozy and having difficulty. But no proof here.

But note that all of this entails Hannah willingly going with JM. She was in an area full of people, and much of their walk down the mall is on tape and past witnesses, none of them seeing anything unusual. No gawks at all. More of that when Hannah was alone Whether she was inside the main area of Tempo or in there at all, she was not kicking up an fuss and until she left, when "Abby" noticed her, she wasn't looking totally plastered. To me that change in appearance is significant and I think she took something that had a quick effect on her. But then again, she could have gotten sick in there, as the events, stress, drinking from the evening caught up with her and was having gas, stomache pains, migraine, who can say? And JM looked he was helping her to where ever, but I assume those people who saw this assumed she was going to a safe harbor, not to be raped or killed. There were a lot of people out there around Tempo at 1:40 am and not a one called in an abduction or other SOS. Looked perfectly fine, normal there.

Which is why that "abduction with intent to defile" is likely to need a lot more evidence thatn what we know LE has.

 

[Conductor71]

1. So what was JM supposed to do with Hannah when she was so incapacitated? He had walked with her arm in arm, talked with her, maybe had a drink with her, all very willingly You don't suddenly become "abducted" when you go willingly with someone and then get too messed up to consent to much of anything, and the person gives you a ride to safe harbor. Also, no one is ever going to know what she consented to doing during that stroll with JM and while she was with him around the Tempo area (maybe in there). That she AFTERWARDS became incapacitated, does not mean JM has to call the cops or dump her right there Absolutely not Of course, he take her to his car. The problem is what did he do with her AFTERWARDS. For all we know, all he did up to the point of taking her to his car, was perfectly fine and no one would have any problem IF he had just dropped her off safely somewhere and it's so noted. That the next time she is seen, she's in skeletal remains shape is a very big problem for JM, LE and everyone. What happened later, is what puts the actions at Tempo and the mall in question as to motive.

2. I think she did willingly get into his car, since she was so incapacitated according to witness description, that she would be unlikely to do otherwise. And that 's ok. If he were taking her somewhere safe or where she had requested, no big deal as discussed in 1) above. The thing is, we don't know if she even got into the car willingly or whether he did not allow her to leave the car. We have no idea what transpired there. My guess is that she dozed off or passed out once she got into the car, given her state and the lack of any report of any ruckus in the area where JM's car was. I don't think J had any issues with her wanting to leave. If he had done as a good samaritan would have done, he'd have driven her to wherever she requested or called the authorities and say he had a woman who passed out on him. If she'd given him her address, taken her home. He was a cabby. He knows well what to do in such situations. The problem is that there is no evidence he did that and where she ended up instead was dead.

BBM for emphasis.

There may be evidence that JM did just drop her off somewhere. Prosecutors seal and can even suppress exculpatory evidence or that which supports JM's innocence. He is supposed to be presumed innocent.

LE is not in the business of showing objective fact. Once they target a suspect, they want a conviction. Police can and do fabricate evidence; it is considered legal. Not saying that was done here. Just saying that simply because we have no evidence of something that weakens LE's case on JM doesn't mean it does not exist. It is all in the hands of the attorneys; mainly the prosecutor.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...sconduct-new-orleans-louisiana_n_3529891.html

 

[themom]

Wouldn't someone have seen him carrying a growler? Plus most bars do not sell beer by the growler...unless they are also a brewery.

He bought TWO $7 drinks, as confirmed by Tempo.

 

[themom]

100% agree she was inside tempo....and I think they are lying BIG so the ABC can't bust them. I think if she didn't have a fake, JLM snuck her in the side door. This timeline has bothered me too.

The idea that Hannah would have waited for him outside that long, alone....makes no sense.

I agree. Va ABC is seriously hardcore. I used to work at a restaurant on the Downtown Mall, and we were routinely told that if we served a minor, there would be serious monetary repercussions for the waitstaff AND the restaurant. Enough to put the restaurant out.of business.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree. Va ABC is seriously hardcore. I used to work at a restaurant on the Downtown Mall, and we were routinely told that if we served a minor, there would be serious monetary repercussions for the waitstaff AND the restaurant. Enough to put the restaurant out.of business.

Yup. I remember having extra strict pre-shift lectures especially when their was a big game in town or something....the thought being the bars would be busier, and higher percentage of students...so greater likelihood of underage/ fake ID's. I also remember them getting tips about the ABC coming around on certain days, and they'd be super stressed over that. And once remember them trying to sneak a patron out when the ABC had a surprise visit because they feared that the very intoxicated patron, may be underage.

 

[ThinkHard]

He bought TWO $7 drinks, as confirmed by Tempo.

I'm well aware. I wasnt the one who suggested a growler.

 

[themom]

Yup. I remember having extra strict pre-shift lectures especially when their was a big game in town or something....the thought being the bars would be busier, and higher percentage of students...so greater likelihood of underage/ fake ID's. I also remember them getting tips about the ABC coming around on certain days, and they'd be super stressed over that. And once remember them trying to sneak a patron out when the ABC had a surprise visit because they feared that the very intoxicated patron, may be underage.

Exactly. It's so much stricter than any other place I've lived/worked (Seattle, NJ, NY).