Tempo Restaurant: What Happened There?

[scmom23]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...unkest-Girl-Regularly-at-Local-Bar-Last-Call/

Don't know how credible the bouncer is but this is interesting

 

[galaxygal]

Hmm, if it is a credible source ... A two month ban and "He always came in looking for a victim.’”

I wonder if the bouncer went to LE with this info when Hannah went missing.

 

[scmom23]

Hmm, if it is a credible source ... A two month ban and "He always came in looking for a victim.’”

I wonder if the bouncer went to LE with this info when Hannah went missing.

I would like to think yes. Really seems like the public has been more than helpful and generous with tips to LE. I can only imagine all the things they have learned about JM and seems they allow "leaks" to come out that are very encouraging that justice will be served!!

 

[Snowball58]

JMO, alcohol is the biggest date rape drug out there, and used more than any other drug. Stay sober in a bar, or club setting, and people watch. It's sad how many are taken advantage of, and no doubt end up being raped.

While alcohol definitely is a contributing factor, I have to say that, if we assume she was a typical college kid, I would expect her to have some alcohol tolerance. I can't imagine she'd get totally smashed by herself, and wander all over the place alone. If she was barely walking when she left Tempo (but was walking fine on the earlier footage, IMO), then she would likely have had to have been pounding shots in the hour leading up to that, which I would think the bartender or patrons would remember. For it to have hit her at that time (whether she was inside or outside) she would have had to have several drinks shortly beforehand. Drinks from earlier in the evening wouldn't have such a delayed effect, even if she was somewhat tipsy while walking around the mall area earlier.

Occam's Razor tells me she was fine until she met up with JM, and if he only bought 2 drinks at Tempo, then she wouldn't have had more than 1 drink before leaving the bar (unless she bought more drinks herself and paid cash, which someone would have remembered). Considering the short time they were there, the simplest explanation for why she walked in seemingly ok (since no one noticed her and she was walking fine on the earlier video) but was barely walking 30 minutes later is that JM drugged her drink.

And knowing what we know about him, it seems like exactly the kind of thing he'd do.

 

[cluciano63]

Imo, it will never be known if Hannah was drugged unless she is found very soon. Not sure how long remains will show traces of drug and even then, hard to prove they were given to her without her knowledge, unless someone actually saw JM drop something in a drink that matched something in her system.

Not sure how much Tempo really matters here, except for tracking Hannah's movement up to the point of walking off from the bar with JM. If it is proven she was inside and possibly served, that is a liquor license matter, Imo. But the witnesses to his behavior are important and Tempo plays a role there. Also if proven they knew she was inside, there could be obstruction charges. Jmo

 

[jamicat]

Imo, it will never be known if Hannah was drugged unless she is found very soon. Not sure how long remains will show traces of drug and even then, hard to prove they were given to her without her knowledge, unless someone actually saw JM drop something in a drink that matched something in her system.

Not sure how much Tempo really matters here, except for tracking Hannah's movement up to the point of walking off from the bar with JM. If it is proven she was inside and possibly served, that is a liquor license matter, Imo. But the witnesses to his behavior are important and Tempo plays a role there. Also if proven they knew she was inside, there could be obstruction charges. Jmo

BBM. I agree. The parties that Hannah had attended clearly served her something. The students pretty much admitted that, and they even knew she was intoxicated. Something the university should be addressing. We don't know for sure whether Tempo served her anything or not. JM could have bought a couple of beers and slipped out a side way with them. It was Friday night/Sat morning bar scene.

The checker was just that, not a bouncer, to make sure that anyone who came into the place had an ID verifying age 21 or older. Any problem, she'd just let them know inside, not provide the muscle to keep anyone out. Again, given the day of the week it was, the traffic was probably heavy, the place busy.

The checker seems to discourage the younger crowd fairly effectively. UVA undergrads do not hang out there at Tempo.

 

[Jmm124567]

Is it possible that HG had more than one drink at Tempo. Maybe JM bought the first two drinks on his credit card which leaves the paper trail then bought more with cash later on.

 

[jamicat]

Is it possible that HG had more than one drink at Tempo. Maybe JM bought the first two drinks on his credit card which leaves the paper trail then bought more with cash later on.

Possible. But, the general consensus is that Hannah was not inside Tempo, though LE has one witness that says she was. JM, who was placed as having been in there, and there is a timeline that was drawn up of this, was not in there all that long.

For whatever reason, she was truly looking smashed at around 1:40 AM according to the Tempo Checker. My guess is that her looking so out of it, with eye witnesses willing to so state this, in part is what supports the "Abduction with intent to Defile" charge.

But I don't think it's likely that it can be proved that Hannah had anything to drink, much less whether JM gave her any drink or spiked it. From the description of the remains, doubt any drugs will be found. Certaiinly not the common rape drugs that tend to dissipate in ones system leaving no sign, rather quickly.

 

[sixecho]

Possible. But, the general consensus is that Hannah was not inside Tempo, though LE has one witness that says she was. JM, who was placed as having been in there, and there is a timeline that was drawn up of this, was not in there all that long.

For whatever reason, she was truly looking smashed at around 1:40 AM according to the Tempo Checker. My guess is that her looking so out of it, with eye witnesses willing to so state this, in part is what supports the "Abduction with intent to Defile" charge.

But I don't think it's likely that it can be proved that Hannah had anything to drink, much less whether JM gave her any drink or spiked it. From the description of the remains, doubt any drugs will be found. Certaiinly not the common rape drugs that tend to dissipate in ones system leaving no sign, rather quickly.

I thought the general consensus changed and that Hannah was in Tempo? I thought LE had said so?

I can understand that JM may have lured Hannah into his car by promising a ride but I've always wondered why Hannah would get into a car with someone who just purchased two drinks. More importantly, why would JM promise to give a ride to someone and then stop by the bar to drink? Personally, I would not get into a car with a stranger that offered to drive me home but needed to stop by the bar to get a drink. And I would not start drinking right after I've offered to take a friend home.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

BBM. I agree. The parties that Hannah had attended clearly served her something. The students pretty much admitted that, and they even knew she was intoxicated. Something the university should be addressing. We don't know for sure whether Tempo served her anything or not. JM could have bought a couple of beers and slipped out a side way with them. It was Friday night/Sat morning bar scene.

The checker was just that, not a bouncer, to make sure that anyone who came into the place had an ID verifying age 21 or older. Any problem, she'd just let them know inside, not provide the muscle to keep anyone out. Again, given the day of the week it was, the traffic was probably heavy, the place busy.

The checker seems to discourage the younger crowd fairly effectively. UVA undergrads do not hang out there at Tempo.

"...the place busy."

There HAVE to be multiple witnesses to HG's presence with JM. Regardless of whether or not people were self-absorbed, people who are outside smoking generally notice things. Didn't "the checker" say there were quite a few people outside? It would be hard to believe that HG wouldn't have been noticed--at least by the men at Tempo. It would be interesting to hear their take on the events of that night.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I thought the general consensus changed and that Hannah was in Tempo? I thought LE had said so?

I can understand that JM may have lured Hannah into his car by promising a ride but I've always wondered why Hannah would get into a car with someone who just purchased two drinks. More importantly, why would JM promise to give a ride to someone and then stop by the bar to drink? Personally, I would not get into a car with a stranger that offered to drive me home but needed to stop by the bar to get a drink. And I would not start drinking right after I've offered to take a friend home.

Unfortunately, I don't think HG was in the state of mind to worry about getting into a strangers car. But then again, I have a feeling they had met before; even if not, with his personality, she probably felt like she had a chance to continue the party a little bit longer via a drink or two at Tempo.

 

[Concerned Mama]

I thought the general consensus changed and that Hannah was in Tempo? I thought LE had said so?

I can understand that JM may have lured Hannah into his car by promising a ride but I've always wondered why Hannah would get into a car with someone who just purchased two drinks. More importantly, why would JM promise to give a ride to someone and then stop by the bar to drink? Personally, I would not get into a car with a stranger that offered to drive me home but needed to stop by the bar to get a drink. And I would not start drinking right after I've offered to take a friend home.

I thought I'd bring this theory over here from the "Hannah's Journey" thread. Member mysterious minds posted yesterday how he could see JLM approaching Hannah and getting her to walk with him and even go into the bar with him:

Another long shot but going to throw it out there… The Sal's video has been strange to me on several counts already discussed here but it's also bothered me how JM is walking and doesn't even seem to turn his head her direction yet somehow seconds later is following her. Did he "eye" her walking towards him before the area that the video catches? He doesn't miss a beat.
And then it just dawned on me that possibly he somehow picked up on white guy's actions (although it's not apparent anywhere on video) and positioned himself as "protecting" HG from the WG. Maybe that's how he was able to get his arm around her so fast. "Hey, I just noticed this guy watching you. Stick with me." And then it would seem even more convincing considering WG DOES keep following them. Maybe JM looked like a real saint at that moment and she started to let her guard down with him. He buys her drink, promises to get her home safe, etc.

Even if there were no WG in the picture, this theory is one that made me stop and think it was plausible, and one I may have fallen for at that age, too. There didn't have to be anybody following her for this "let me help you" approach, seemingly harmless, to be convincing to a young woman who is alone and clearly not in familiar surroundings at one in the morning.

 

[sixecho]

I thought I'd bring this theory over here from the "Hannah's Journey" thread. Member mysterious minds posted yesterday how he could see JLM approaching Hannah and getting her to walk with him and even go into the bar with him:



Even if there were no WG in the picture, this theory is one that made me stop and think it was plausible, and one I may have fallen for at that age, too. There didn't have to be anybody following her for this "let me help you" approach, seemingly harmless, to be convincing to a young woman who is alone and clearly not in familiar surroundings at one in the morning.

It's definitely plausible. It's just that.... and this has always bothered me... the time difference between the Sal's video and the Tuel's video is so minuscule. Two minutes at the most, I believe! How in the world did JM manage to pass WG and catch up to Hannah. Did Hannah and WG stop and communicate? Did JM step in? We go from Hannah being followed by WG and JM quite a ways behind (relatively speaking) and then in the next video we have Hannah and JM not only walking together but walking with JM's arm around Hannah. And then we now have WG trailing behind. Thank God for the video footage we do have but I wish we had more. The moment between Sal's and Tuel's seem like a pivotal one.

 

[Conductor71]

"...the place busy."

There HAVE to be multiple witnesses to HG's presence with JM. Regardless of whether or not people were self-absorbed, people who are outside smoking generally notice things. Didn't "the checker" say there were quite a few people outside? It would be hard to believe that HG wouldn't have been noticed--at least by the men at Tempo. It would be interesting to hear their take on the events of that night.

I find it really odd that JM could slip out any door at Tempo with drinks given that is against the law in VA? New Orleans has very liberal open container laws, VA does not that I know of. At bars, especially ones in college towns that are not known student hang outs, employees /bouncers get stationed at or near any and all entrances and exits. They check too. This has been my experience living and imbibing in a college town. Bars are pretty vigilant about not serving minors in any way lest they lose their licenses. This is yet another reason why students party in residences, not in restaurant bars.A bouncer supposedly saw them leaving and didn't notice drinks in hand or question where those drinks were purchased? Highly unlikely he left that bar with drinks in hand, IMO.

According to VA statutes it is illegal for him to do so, and there are witnesses. Again, why would a predator draw even more attention to himself this way? Why was JM not also charged with this? This would be much more indicative of intent to defile than a solitary reckless driving charge.

Va. Code §4.1-308
A. If any person takes a drink of alcoholic beverages or offers a drink thereof to another, whether accepted or not, at or in any public place, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.


http://www.ncsl.org/research/financ.../open-container-and-consumption-statutes.aspx

 

[Conductor71]

It's definitely plausible. It's just that.... and this has always bothered me... the time difference between the Sal's video and the Tuel's video is so minuscule. Two minutes at the most, I believe! How in the world did JM manage to pass WG and catch up to Hannah. Did Hannah and WG stop and communicate? Did JM step in? We go from Hannah being followed by WG and JM quite a ways behind (relatively speaking) and then in the next video we have Hannah and JM not only walking together but walking with JM's arm around Hannah. And then we now have WG trailing behind. Thank God for the video footage we do have but I wish we had more. The moment between Sal's and Tuel's seem like a pivotal one.

Curious isn't it?

 

[ninij9]

The theory that Hannah wanted to continue to drink therefore accepting drinks/company from a stranger dont ring true to me because while an 18 year old would want the party to continue, isnt it usually because they are having a great time with friends? And if the drinking was so important why leave a party with drinks available? Even very intoxicated teens would prefer to remain with friend's to get their partying on. My theory is something pissed/upset her and she took off for a walk/jog to clear her head. What happened after that is too inexplicable to me. I feel she knew or knew of Jesse. Maybe he has given her a ride before or something. But she wasn't partying with him. She was surely manipulated by him quickly though.

 

[MJPeony]

The theory that Hannah wanted to continue to drink therefore accepting drinks/company from a stranger dont ring true to me because while an 18 year old would want the party to continue, isnt it usually because they are having a great time with friends? And if the drinking was so important why leave a party with drinks available? Even very intoxicated teens would prefer to remain with friend's to get their partying on. My theory is something pissed/upset her and she took off for a walk/jog to clear her head. What happened after that is too inexplicable to me. I feel she knew or knew of Jesse. Maybe he has given her a ride before or something. But she wasn't partying with him. She was surely manipulated by him quickly though.

I don't think she would have wanted to drink with Jesse either. I think she was either lost and was thrilled to get an offer from "a friendly guy who used to be a cab driver", or she was out that night looking for someone. I've thought the latter since the beginning, but now I'm not so sure. There's been some great discussion here that is starting to make me think she was truly lost from the beginning. But she left that last party (withOUT the guy who offered to go with her for some reason). So.... MO is either 1) she wanted to be alone and just got lost, or 2) she was looking for someone.

But regardless, I don't think she would have accepted more alcohol from JM at that point. Just doesn't make sense to me (unless she knew him). How she got to the point she could barely stand up though by 1:40 am I'm not sure. A drug he slipped her in water? A drug she took willingly? Just shear exhaustion at that point b/c of her past 2 hours and having been drinking? Is it possible the witness at Tempo over-stated her condition? (in that perhaps it really wasn't totally slumped-over-all-out-noodle, but more I'm-so-tired-please-take-me-to-the-car). Anyway, haven't fully formed a theory yet on all of that yet.

 

[jamicat]

I don't think she would have wanted to drink with Jesse either. I think she was either lost and was thrilled to get an offer from "a friendly guy who used to be a cab driver", or she was out that night looking for someone. I've thought the latter since the beginning, but now I'm not so sure. There's been some great discussion here that is starting to make me think she was truly lost from the beginning. But she left that last party (withOUT the guy who offered to go with her for some reason). So.... MO is either 1) she wanted to be alone and just got lost, or 2) she was looking for someone.

But regardless, I don't think she would have accepted more alcohol from JM at that point. Just doesn't make sense to me (unless she knew him). How she got to the point she could barely stand up though by 1:40 am I'm not sure. A drug he slipped her in water? A drug she took willingly? Just shear exhaustion at that point b/c of her past 2 hours and having been drinking? Is it possible the witness at Tempo over-stated her condition? (in that perhaps it really wasn't totally slumped-over-all-out-noodle, but more I'm-so-tired-please-take-me-to-the-car). Anyway, haven't fully formed a theory yet on all of that yet.

I disagree. Drinking gets you dehydrated. She had walked a mile or two, had been drinking, was wandering around for about an hour. I think an offer of a nice cold beer would have sounded very good. Or maybe JM drank both drinks he got and just gave Hannah ice water and slipped something in that. Or maybe she just got queasy from the walk and drink catching up with her, had to throw up, got gas pains which made her bentover, slumping,needing support. That fatigue caught up with her We'll never know for sure, IMO. We can see how she was walking up to a point. Then we have a witness statement of how she appeared at around 1:40 which is quite different from how she was moving on those tapes. What happened for that change to have occurred in a bout a half hour's time? A bunch of possibilities, IMO.

My guess is based on the descripiton of Hannah as given by those who know her, and college kids that I know, and my own experiences. I think she got lost, ended up an uncomfortable distance from where she wanted to be with an unwelcome prospect of a an uncertain walk back since she already got lost, and an offer of a ride was godsent to her. I think descriptions of JM lead me to believe he could be most disarming and charming. Had a UVAMC id most likely as he worked there. Ride would only be for a few minutes. Mall is not at all far from the Corner, especially by car. And, sure, a drink before leaving would sound just fine too. She was probably thirsty. And the quick change in her stance after JM bought 2 drinks at Tempo leads me to believe that the drink could have been spiked That JM got the drinks and he is such a predator makes me even more suspcious.

But none of this can be proven with forensic evidence, IMO It would be nice if it could. Tempo employees have out and out said they did not see what JM did with drinks. They did not see him drink them. They did not see Hannah. Guess is that she was in a side area, and he brought the drinks to her. Checker says she saw JM come out a side door and was with Hannah.

 

[MJPeony]

I disagree. Drinking gets you dehydrated. She had walked a mile or two, had been drinking, was wandering around for about an hour. I think an offer of a nice cold beer would have sounded very good. Or maybe JM drank both drinks he got and just gave Hannah ice water and slipped something in that. Or maybe she just got queasy from the walk and drink catching up with her, had to throw up, got gas pains which made her bentover, slumping,needing support. That fatigue caught up with her We'll never know for sure, IMO. We can see how she was walking up to a point. Then we have a witness statement of how she appeared at around 1:40 which is quite different from how she was moving on those tapes. What happened for that change to have occurred in a bout a half hour's time? A bunch of possibilities, IMO.

My guess is based on the descripiton of Hannah as given by those who know her, and college kids that I know, and my own experiences. I think she got lost, ended up an uncomfortable distance from where she wanted to be with an unwelcome prospect of a an uncertain walk back since she already got lost, and an offer of a ride was godsent to her. I think descriptions of JM lead me to believe he could be most disarming and charming. Had a UVAMC id most likely as he worked there. Ride would only be for a few minutes. Mall is not at all far from the Corner, especially by car. And, sure, a drink before leaving would sound just fine too. She was probably thirsty. And the quick change in her stance after JM bought 2 drinks at Tempo leads me to believe that the drink could have been spiked That JM got the drinks and he is such a predator makes me even more suspcious.

But none of this can be proven with forensic evidence, IMO It would be nice if it could. Tempo employees have out and out said they did not see what JM did with drinks. They did not see him drink them. They did not see Hannah. Guess is that she was in a side area, and he brought the drinks to her. Checker says she saw JM come out a side door and was with Hannah.

Oh I do agree with a lot of what you said there. Especially that part where he perhaps spiked a glass of water for her, and that she truly was quite lost. And how charming and unalarming he was. Yes. Although I'm still mulling over a lot of the details and all the various combinations of possibilities. I do think it's still possible she was out looking for someone, but like I said, I've heard great arguments here that make me think that's less likely now. While I personally think it less likely she would have wanted to go drinking more (alcohol) with random dude, it's certainly possible.

 

[jamicat]

Oh I do agree with a lot of what you said there. Especially that part where he perhaps spiked a glass of water for her, and that she truly was quite lost. And how charming and unalarming he was. Yes. Although I'm still mulling over a lot of the details and all the various combinations of possibilities. I do think it's still possible she was out looking for someone, but like I said, I've heard great arguments here that make me think that's less likely now. While I personally think it less likely she would have wanted to go drinking more (alcohol) with random dude, it's certainly possible.

That you, and others can see possibilities of her of not only going arm in arm, willing with JM (proof positive on camera), of having a drink with JM( likely though not proven, given JM makes that stop which is documented , at Tempo and buys 2 dirnks), but also maybe she was out looking for someone with whom to hook up and left with JM for those reasons and it is not an Abduction with Intent to Defile. Maybe she agreed to go out and "party" with JM But to end up the way she did is a crime, murder, and that part is what LE is hopefully going to prove The rest doesn't really matter. So what if she agreed to go with him for more than a ride?