I would have thought so too. Jesse was there at 1:40AM with an underage girl. Normally, at that time of night, the staff would be eyeballing the customers to see how much longer they were staying ... cleaning their tables to give them a little encouragement. How could they not have seen Hannah falling off her chair, incapacitated as she's held up by the 32 year old man that was throwing people around earlier in the evening?
Tempo Restaurant: What Happened There?
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I would have thought so too. Jesse was there at 1:40AM with an underage girl. Normally, at that time of night, the staff would be eyeballing the customers to see how much longer they were staying ... cleaning their tables to give them a little encouragement. How could they not have seen Hannah falling off her chair, incapacitated as she's held up by the 32 year old man that was throwing people around earlier in the evening?
ThinkHard
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(modsnip)
I am more informed on micro brew culture then most people really have any reason to be...as it stands there are currently over 75 gallons of beer in my home at various stages of fermentation..and if you wanted to be put to sleep I could inform you of every nuance (scientifically) of the brewing process....I could also identify the hop variety used in a beer by the smell and taste, as well as explain the business models and distribution process/ restrictions of micro breweries in this country (thanks to being subjected to Brewing Network on a weekly basis for years .... snore)...I've even taken yearly vacations to the national homebrew conference...this info is just imbedded at this point.....please just take my word for it that not only did JLM NOT buy growlers but there is no way, no how, that growlers would have even been available for him to buy at Tempo!
(Side note if you want to dispute this fine, but I'm making a promise to you and to the other WS's this is the last I will say on the matter....p.s. i'm telling ya'll so I stick to it
I'm on the fence about whether or not Hannah went inside Tempo. I kind of thought perhaps she was looking for someone, a friend maybe, in the bars that evening and that's why she was in the area and went to Gradys first. And she agreed to go to Tempo with JM because he offered to check if her friend was inside. So that might explain why she waited for him. This is pure speculation on my part.
ThinkHard
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Wow I just did that...can one say flashback! .... Ok so I want to point out that if you click on that link...and following the areas to market street....its the direction away from the downtown mall....so the end of that street on the left is the Melting Pot (I distinctly remember that from living there but I'm not sure Tempo was there then...I have no recollection of it, so even if it existed 5 years ago, I certainly have never been)...anyway if you look to the left where the melting pot is....if you went that way you would be on the backside of the arena/dome where they have free Friday concerts in the summer. But if you look to the right that road....plus ONE left turn...that's DIRECT access to Old Lynchburg Road! Its also dark and quiet with no business on it at night, I'd be willing to bet JLM was parked on that street.
travelbug
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I didn't say that he did know her, only that a lot of guys use a line like "don't I know you from somewhere". For a friendly and trusting person like HG, that can work for engaging someone in conversation. He was a predator and I think he had his "banter" fine tuned. Even the high fives he gives the people he passes is designed to reassure that he is a recognized and likeable guy. He was obviously too old to get away with "don't I recognize you from school". jmoo
Conductor71
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Moving this over from different thread:
Looking at your first link (the article is no longer there), these "beers" were not intended for HG as they were purchased before midnight on Sept 12.
The owner says "beers" but the key info is the date/time stamp from the receipt. That is not provided.
Last example cannot be verified as article is also missing. I assume that it too; however, does not specify when the beers were purchased.
Thanks, but this doesn't convince me that he bought beer for Hannah. According to receipts and statements by the owner of Tempo, JM made a purchase of drinks around midnight when HG was still making her way to the mall. Another source says drinks were paid for around 1 am.
I have read the JM timeline. I don't count Coy Barefoot as credible; just as many dismiss the owner of Tempo's official statement as being credible. Neither is exactly objective.
In looking to more independent news sources, I stick with those by Courteney Stuart because she has track record for being accurate and independent. Her articles do not disappear.
Tempo was able to immediately provide authorities with information that pinpointed the location of the Person of Interest, Mr. Matthew. Details of credit card receipts showed that he had made purchases at the bar shortly after midnight while Hannah was still making her way towards the downtown mall from Preston Avenue. Those records also confirm that he returned to Tempo at 1:10 am and left shortly after, although Ms. Graham was not seen inside the restaurant and was never served.
Source: http://www.c-ville.com/tempo-restaurant-releases-statement-hannah-graham/#.VFMbO_nF8r4
Those records show that a) he could have made new purchases at 1:10 or b) he could have been paying tab from earlier (as reported in Washington Post).
We still cannot say for certainty what was purchased and when, IMO. I don't find witnesses at a bar around closing time to be highly credible. So the buying HG beer is conjecture so far as we know? Tempo certainly does hold key info.
Looking at your first link (the article is no longer there), these "beers" were not intended for HG as they were purchased before midnight on Sept 12.
The owner says "beers" but the key info is the date/time stamp from the receipt. That is not provided.
Last example cannot be verified as article is also missing. I assume that it too; however, does not specify when the beers were purchased.
Thanks, but this doesn't convince me that he bought beer for Hannah. According to receipts and statements by the owner of Tempo, JM made a purchase of drinks around midnight when HG was still making her way to the mall. Another source says drinks were paid for around 1 am.
I have read the JM timeline. I don't count Coy Barefoot as credible; just as many dismiss the owner of Tempo's official statement as being credible. Neither is exactly objective.
In looking to more independent news sources, I stick with those by Courteney Stuart because she has track record for being accurate and independent. Her articles do not disappear.
Tempo was able to immediately provide authorities with information that pinpointed the location of the Person of Interest, Mr. Matthew. Details of credit card receipts showed that he had made purchases at the bar shortly after midnight while Hannah was still making her way towards the downtown mall from Preston Avenue. Those records also confirm that he returned to Tempo at 1:10 am and left shortly after, although Ms. Graham was not seen inside the restaurant and was never served.
Source: http://www.c-ville.com/tempo-restaurant-releases-statement-hannah-graham/#.VFMbO_nF8r4
Those records show that a) he could have made new purchases at 1:10 or b) he could have been paying tab from earlier (as reported in Washington Post).
We still cannot say for certainty what was purchased and when, IMO. I don't find witnesses at a bar around closing time to be highly credible. So the buying HG beer is conjecture so far as we know? Tempo certainly does hold key info.
Assuming JM agreed to drive Hannah to her destination, why would he grab a drink before driving? On that same note, why would Hannah get into a car with a stranger who just drank a beer? JM could have been drinking all night for she knew (and it appears he did). Does this seem odd to anyone or not really a big deal.
Honestly, I most likely wouldn't get in a car with someone who had been drinking unless I really knew that person and knew that they haven't had a lot to drink. Would I take a ride from a friend who has been drinking the whole night? No. Would I take a ride from a friend who just had one beer? Yes, if I know the friend very well. Would I take a ride from a stranger who has been drinking? No.
Honestly, I most likely wouldn't get in a car with someone who had been drinking unless I really knew that person and knew that they haven't had a lot to drink. Would I take a ride from a friend who has been drinking the whole night? No. Would I take a ride from a friend who just had one beer? Yes, if I know the friend very well. Would I take a ride from a stranger who has been drinking? No.
ThinkHard
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Well there aren't really any businesses around right there, its on a side street OFF the downtown malls main strip. There is a melting pot on the opposite corner. But other then that there's not much....and then if you get on market right there...not much either. So if there weren't other businesses...there wouldn't be other cameras..and I'm not that surprised that tempo didn't have cameras...neither did the Cville bar I worked in,
ThinkHard
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I hear how your getting that logic, and I basically follow....but I don't for a second think he would use a line like he recognized her from the hospital...it makes no sense. A least not to me.
ThinkHard
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Actually in my experience bars get fuller and fuller till closing time when everyone is kicked out. They don't tend to trickle off just before last call. And usually don't even get busy busy until after 11. Around last call in my experience is usually when the bar is MOST packed.
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UVA medical complex is enormous. I do not work there but I go there a lot and if someone came up to me on the downtown mall and said they recognized me from the hospital, I would immediately become alarmed.
I am unsure how many it employs but it is massive and JM's position would not really put him in any contact with medical students.
I am unsure how many it employs but it is massive and JM's position would not really put him in any contact with medical students.
Appalachiagirl
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Same here. There is a mad dash to the bar to get that last drink.
ThinkHard
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I agree...I thought that weird too...I proposed this scenario on another board that addressed that very thing...
Suppose this scenario: perhaps she was a girl who had something heavy on her mind, and a feeling of just needing to get away...who also might have been wearing shoes not great for walking long distances. She looks like someone who didn't know where she wanted to be exactly, but it wasn't because she was lost.
Maybe something happened at that party, and she wanted away from it, and away from anyone at it...maybe she knew someone at mcgradys either via a status/tweet, or by text or cell...someone she needed/wanted to see perhaps as a comfort or because she was mad and going to confront them, perhaps related to whatever reason she left the party....or she was at the party, then got bad news via phone notification or through someone there and it "turned her world upside down".... So she was going to confront someone or needed to talk to someone about what she just heard/learned....(add in some alcohol which she was reported to consume at the party)....
But when she gets to Mcgrady's she can't find them, she can't get into the bar, they aren't on the patio or in the parking lot.
Then maybe she was alerted as to this persons new whereabouts...."oh they left 10 min ago they where headed to Tempo".....so she started heading there...not realizing how long the walk was, and not really knowing exactly the best rout there.
So she gets to the downtown mall, and she's upset, angry, sad, hurt, betrayed...who knows... kind of focused in her own thoughts, less aware of her surroundings, tired from walking, feet hurt, and still slightly drunk from the party earlier....and who does she cross paths with...but LJ (who's face may or may not have been familiar to her, though I doubt she knew him well), who's know to pray on girls in distress and intoxicated....so he swoops in, puts his arm around her, "oh what's wrong baby doll, how can a girl as pretty as you be so upset".....and at that point she just pours her heart out to him, tells this virtual stranger everything because she so exasperated. So then maybe he responds with "well lets go find them (at tempo)". And she thinks I've got this huge guy, I've got protection to this person I want to confront.....what a nice guy.
But then maybe they get to Tempo, and the person isn't there, or they can't find them....and JLM uses this time to drug her.....so by the time its Tempos last call, not only did she never find who she set out to find...but her state of mind is so altered....he just walks her to his car.....its possible he never even "offered" her a ride until after she was already drugged.
A strange guy going with you to a bar, sounds far less creepy then a strange guy offering you a ride....I think Hannah was smart enough / sober enough even when she first entered the mall to be skeeved out by a stranger offering her a ride....but if the subject wasnt even broached until after the drugging....I can better comprehend why she would have felt comfortable enough with him to spend time with him in the first place.
Anyway just throwing out a scenario.
We clearly do not know what LE knows but I am guessing if something similar to this scenario is what put HG at the downtown mall that night, LE would be well aware of it. It just doesn't mean they would tell us.
Impression I got from LE commemts was that they do not have footage of Hannah and JM in the Tempo area and are relying on eyewitness reports. It's certainly possible that they do, however, and have not released it. It could be detrimental to the case to see Hannah agreeably going with JM, even needing support. She was drunk from the get go at the mall, and for someone who met her there and strolled the mall promenade, it would be the right thing to give her a ride home if she started getting worse. There are no cameras inside of Tempo or evidence Hannah had been in there or drank alcohol in there. LE has said they were desperately looking for any sightings or footage after 1:40am of either or both Hannah and JM.
Wish someone local could go down there and see if Tempo has a side door, side hallway or other such area where Hannah could have sat out of sight of he main floor/bar area.
Given that the entire evening was one of poor judgement exercised by Hannah, that she was making more poor judgements after midnight when she was "extremely intoxicated", had walked over a mile in a longer time than it should have taken, possibly lost, did not call a cab or security, possibly linked up with a stranger who approached her, and likely accepted a ride from him, yes, it is consistent with her behavior.
She went out alone after dark. Illegally was drinking. A lot. Turned down an offer to see her home according to a classmate. Set out to yet a nother party even inebriated. May have had no id or money on her--no wristlet or purse to be seen, and that might be why she was loathe to take a cab and could not take a bus/shuttle even if she could have found one at that time of the morning.
She might have been just plain ol happy to run into a nice sounding guy who asked her just the right way "what's the matter, honey?" And when she said she got lost and needed a ride back to the Corner, which is a guesss, the whole encounter here, I am just guessing; that he had a car right there and would be happy to give her a ride, probaby was music to her ears. She was drunk herself so her judgement was much impaired, but sadly a lot of people don't care anyways. Clearly, she broke the underage drinking laws.
She probably figured one last beer, not some hard liquor, but a quick beer, a cold one would be fine. I think she had one too. A cold beer would sound and taste marvelous to someone who just was walking a half hour/more, was dehydrated--drinking alcohol does that. What's a single beer? And remember the ride would have been a very short one. Hannah was not far from the Corner, her apartment. By car it would have taken just a few minutes.
As to why JM grabbed a beer, taking up time and money when he had a "hot one" in his clutches? I think he spiked the drink, pure and simple, but absolutely no proof. That Hannah was walking on her own, no need of support and good strides on the way to Temp, and then a half hour or so later, when the checker outside of Tempo notices her, she can barely stand on her own, to me, points to more than one beer. Something was ingested, IMO, that made that change in condition. But no proof. No one saw JM even drinking, much less Hannah. So all of this is pure theory.
One thing I have to say about JM, despite the very long list of DMV violations he has accumumlated, is that any DUI type offenses are absent. Also, though he had been drinking throughout the evening, it looks like he buys for others a lot. Not that Hannah would know that.
Dushi
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Brice Cunningham, owner of the upscale Tempo Restaurant in Charlottesville, said he saw Matthew for the first time at the restaurant late on Friday, Sept. 12, and then again during the early hours of Sept. 13. Cunningham said that Matthew drank shots of bourbon with two other customers about 11:45 p.m., and that he then saw Matthew enjoying music on the restaurant’s dance floor.
Cunningham said that Matthew left the bar briefly and returned just after 1 a.m., closed a tab for two beers at 1:10 a.m. and then left sometime after that. He said that Tempo staffers, who were checking identification to ensure that patrons were at least 21 years old, saw Graham outside the bar and thought she appeared intoxicated. They saw her leave with Mathew on foot
Cunningham said that Matthew, who was not a regular at the bar, appeared to be having a good time that evening
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b10cc-44b1-11e4-b437-1a7368204804_story.html
Cunningham said that Matthew left the bar briefly and returned just after 1 a.m., closed a tab for two beers at 1:10 a.m. and then left sometime after that. He said that Tempo staffers, who were checking identification to ensure that patrons were at least 21 years old, saw Graham outside the bar and thought she appeared intoxicated. They saw her leave with Mathew on foot
Cunningham said that Matthew, who was not a regular at the bar, appeared to be having a good time that evening
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b10cc-44b1-11e4-b437-1a7368204804_story.html
Dushi
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. Details of credit card receipts showed that he had made purchases at the bar shortly after midnight while Hannah was still making her way towards the downtown mall from Preston Avenue. Those records also confirm that he returned to Tempo at 1:10 am and left shortly after, although Ms. Graham was not seen inside the restaurant and was never served. She was, however, noticed by the door-person outside the restaurant at that time, and seen leaving with Matthew shortly thereafter. These details helped police reconstruct Ms. Graham's movements and last known whereabouts.
http://www.wric.com/story/26626198/search-for-hannah-graham-tempo-restaurant-releases-statement
http://www.wric.com/story/26626198/search-for-hannah-graham-tempo-restaurant-releases-statement
Dushi
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To me, it is clear that JLM was at Tempo twice
Ordered and paid for bourbon around midnight
Owner is saying that records show this
Shortly after one, he purchased two drinks, beer is suggested.
Records also show the purchase
There is no way to know who drank them
There must be checks and balances set in place in bars so that inventory can be controlled, codes or some such thing on receipts
Ordered and paid for bourbon around midnight
Owner is saying that records show this
Shortly after one, he purchased two drinks, beer is suggested.
Records also show the purchase
There is no way to know who drank them
There must be checks and balances set in place in bars so that inventory can be controlled, codes or some such thing on receipts
ThinkHard
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If you look at some of the things you highlighted, it could bring up some new questions, or potential scenarios...it occurred to me that if JLM had bought those beers earlier....and was only closing a tab...well why did he leave Tempo with an open tab? Was he planning to go back to Tempo? Or had he forgotten it was open when he left? Did he leave Tempo to go meet up with someone at the downtown mall? Maybe he wasnt intending to bring Hannah in Tempo to drink at all, but he had to go close out his tab.
Could it be possible that he left Tempo to go meet Hannah? Could they have been in contact via some snap chat thing, rather then through texts?
Just thinking threw this. But if JLM had an open tab when he left tempo....why? How does that change potential scenarios.
If he didn't buy her a drink, how did he drug her?
Could she have gone more off the beaten path and smoked weed with him?
Maybe other people where with them, but don't want to come forward because it involves an illegal substance.
If he closed the tab, at around 1:10....and Hannah was never inside, but they were both spotted outside at 1:40....what were they doing for 30 min?