Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #10 One Suspect Dead; One in Custody

[PoirotryInMotion]

I have no doubt he would have asked for a lawyer though in those 16 hours of interrogation which will ignite more issues at the May 30 hearing. MOO

I posted a few pages back a link that said he did indeed ask for a lawyer during those 16 hours but the interrogation continued, and that that was likely going to cause some challenges for prosecution due to so much being shared prior to Mirandizing.

 

[CARIIS]

The article you have linked lists a variety of statements and confessions that DT is supposed to have made whilst critically ill in hospital. However, the "public safety exception" to Miranda, which allows questioning before advising of Miranda rights, is very limited and does not allow for questioning designed to illicit confessions:

"The "public safety" exception to Miranda is a powerful tool with a modern application for law enforcement. When police officers are confronted by a concern for public safety, Miranda warnings need not be provided prior to asking questions directed at neutralizing an imminent threat, and voluntary statements made in response to such narrowly tailored questions can be admitted at trial. Once the questions turn from those designed to resolve the concern for safety to questions designed solely to elicit incriminating statements, the questioning falls outside the scope of the exception and within the traditional rules of Miranda."



http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/february2011/legal_digest

By the time this gets to trial (2022!) I think they made a HUGE mistake (satiate public) by proceeding with interrogation when they did.

“Dr, are you telling this court, that your patient, who had been bleeding for 36 hours, had major surgery, has been sedated, has a hole in his neck, a tube down his throat, a hole in his leg; is in serious condition would have the same ability to be oriented as a individual experiencing none of the above mentioned.

IMO!

 

[Isabelle]

I have a feeling his wife spent more time at her parents house than with him...

The neighbor of KR's parents who said TT visited KR and ZT on weekends was probably telling the truth!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Perhaps we have a different idea of what constitutes a conscience.

IMO, a person with a conscience (regardless of ideology) does not harm others, let alone detonate bombs that kill and maim others. I stand by my belief.

Citing ancient Biblical history does not persuade me to agree with anyone who may follow another ideology. As far as I'm concerned, zealotry of every stripe is a root cause of many historic conflicts, but it does not justify heinous actions against others.

Yes, I think we may have a different view of how conscience is formed and demonstrated. No problem.

 

[georger]

By the time this gets to trial (2022!) I think they made a HUGE mistake (satiate public) by proceeding with interrogation when they did.

“Dr, are you telling this court, that your patient, who had been bleeding for 36 hours, had major surgery, has been sedated, has a hole in his neck, a tube down his throat, a hole in his leg; in serious condition has the same .capacity the same as an individual experiencing none of the above mentioned.

IMO!

Totally disagree.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I have a feeling his wife spent more time at her parents house than with him...

I agree. I remember reading early on in all this about the neighbor who observed that TT would come weekends to visit her and Z...(it's in one of these threads, though couldn't tell you where at this point.) Not quite so difficult to privately work on bomb-making when the wife is either working double-shifts with the agency or staying over at the folks' house with the child.

 

[CARIIS]

His parents in Dagestan will not bring the bombing suspect's body back to Russia and will not bury him until an "independent" autopsy is conducted, family spokeswoman Kheda Saratova said Friday

What is the mystery, he was shot hit with bomb stuff and run over. I would guess he dies of gunshot wounds and blunt injuty confused about the hoopala on this angle -IMO

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by sorrell skye

Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
Well, that breaks down a bit when you consider what 'conscience' is all about--and it can definitely involve ideology. I'll preface this by making it clear that I personally think the act of detonating those bombs was truly unconscionable. But, if someone truly has an allegiance to a Higher Power (and that's a big IF), and IF they truly believe that Higher Power is/was commanding them to attack a designated 'enemy,' then, for them, they might suffer their own sort of weird guilt for not doing what they felt had been defined as glorified and 'right' for them to do. IOW, your ideology (especially if it's a theology) defines your sense of right/wrong. Example: Joshua in the Old Testament and the conquest of Israel ('the Promised Land') from all the Hittites, Midianites, and other-ites living there. Joshua was and is revered as a man of God by Jews and Christians alike today. But I bet, if any of those [presumably escaped] Hittites had Internet, there may have been some moms and grandmoms chatting up their message boards about how they didn't see how "anyone who could attack and plunder their city, killing men, women AND children, could 'have a conscience.'"

The Tsarnaev brothers may or may not have had sociopathic tendencies - but the fact that they also had a religious ideology muddles the question a bit for me as far as determining if they had any conscience whatsoever. JMHO

Originally Posted by sorrell skye
Perhaps we have a different idea of what constitutes a conscience.

IMO, a person with a conscience (regardless of ideology) does not harm others, let alone detonate bombs that kill and maim others. I stand by my belief.

Citing ancient Biblical history does not persuade me to agree with anyone who may follow another ideology. As far as I'm concerned, zealotry of every stripe is a root cause of many historic conflicts, but it does not justify heinous actions against others.

Originally Posted by sorrell skye
The above quoted posts are evident of the topic of discussion.

Originally Posted by MLO
My husband has killed and maimed many. I assure you he has a conscience.

I was discussing the Boston Marathon bombers with another poster, as is obvious, since the title of this thread is: Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon.

I have no idea what anyone's husband has to do with the Boston Marathon bombings, nor why he was even brought up in this discussion.

I have no interest in discussing anyone's husband here, unless he was involved in the Boston Marathon bombings.

I think MLO's comment was as relevant as the rest of this conversation...which had evolved into a discussion about conscience and whether those who "kill and maim others" can even have one. Her military husband is certainly in a position to, in the line of patriotic duty, have to make this choice. I thought her point was well-taken. IMHO.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

His parents in Dagestan will not bring the bombing suspect's body back to Russia and will not bury him until an "independent" autopsy is conducted, family spokeswoman Kheda Saratova said Friday

What is the mystery, he was shot hit with bomb stuff and run over. I would guess he dies of gunshot wounds and blunt injuty confused about the hoopala on this angle -IMO

Well, there seems to be a multitude of possible causes; sounds to me like she doesn't trust America/American doctors, and wants her own assurance. Much as I dislike her, I have to admit she has that right for peace of mind as a mother. If she wants to pay for it, so be it.

BTW, I'm still interested myself in finding out COD...

 

[sorrell skye]

I think her comment was as relevant as the rest of this conversation...which had evolved into a discussion about conscience and whether those who "kill and maim others" can even have one. Her military husband is certainly in a position to, in the line of patriotic duty, have to make this choice. I thought her point was well-taken. IMHO.

In light of the quoted discussion, comparing a terrorist's actions with those who are enlisted in the armed services is quite a stretch, unless one is willing to say that one's actions as an enlisted serviceman are comparable to a terrorist's actions.

I seriously doubt that's what the poster was trying to say, and it's obvious that's not what I was saying, but it seems that my comments are being twisted to suit someone's agenda.

I have great respect for our military personnel. I have never made derogatory remarks about them. I take offense that my comments are being taken out of context.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

In light of the quoted discussion, comparing a terrorist's actions with those who are enlisted in the armed services is quite a stretch, unless one is willing to say that one's actions as an enlisted serviceman are comparable to a terrorist's actions.

I seriously doubt that's what the poster was trying to say, and it's obvious that's not what I was saying, but it seems that my comments are being twisted to suit someone's agenda.

I have great respect for our military personnel. I have never made derogatory remarks about them. I take offense that my comments are being taken out of context.

You are missing the point. No one in here is justifying the conscience of these terrorists or equating these two bombers with our military men. We are (or at least I am) only saying that from the perspective of the jihadist he is operating under his own unique brand of conscience (which no one in here is supporting) if he feels he's fighting for a 'greater cause'--much the same way our military guys might feel, or Joshua in the OT battles might have felt. For some people (though not you) conscience does dictate killing or maiming perceived enemies in light of a greater good.

 

[Sillybilly]

From the link originally posted by Just_K

Boston suspects had plotted July 4 attack, investigators say
By Pete Williams and Jeff Black, NBC News

"The brothers accused in the Boston Marathon bombings originally planned to set off explosives on July 4 — but changed their minds and decided on Patriot’s Day, officials with knowledge of suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s interrogation told NBC News."

The article says they pretty much know where and how the bombs were constructed but are still trying to figure out where the components came from.

"Officials say the surviving suspect also said the bombs were built in the house of his brother, Tamerlan. Authorities had previously disclosed that explosive residue had been found there.
And a backpack that officials say was snatched from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s dorm room then thrown away by three of his friends before being recovered is providing some clues on the bombs."

The article also discusses the vaseline and how it is used. Its a good article.

<bbm>

I find the bolded part interesting. If DT has been co-operative enough to inform where the bombs were constructed, it seems he either doesn't know, or is unwilling to provide info on where some components came from. I'm wondering about the circuit boards.

Another "very nice" dude in Canada was arrested in 2010, one of the charges being "conspiracy to knowingly facilitate a terrorist activity." He was found in possession of 50 circuit boards:

RCMP seized 50 circuit boards during his arrest in Ottawa. They said the electronics could be used as remote-control triggers for bombs.

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/08/27/f-bomb-plot-profile-hiva-alizadeh.html

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

<bbm>

I find the bolded part interesting. If DT has been co-operative enough to inform where the bombs were constructed, it seems he either doesn't know, or is unwilling to provide info on where some components came from. I'm wondering about the circuit boards.

Another "very nice" dude in Canada was arrested in 2010, one of the charges being "conspiracy to knowingly facilitate a terrorist activity." He was found in possession of 50 circuit boards:

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/08/27/f-bomb-plot-profile-hiva-alizadeh.html

Interesting connection...and we know they know where some of the components came from (mentioned green components available at hobby stores early on)--so maybe circuit boards are the mystery. Early on they (esp. FBI) kept saying the bombs themselves were pretty basic and easily put together using Internet instructions--but that the remote mechanisms were much more sophisticated, dangerous, and would take more instruction and/or practice to put together or operate effectively.

 

[georger]

You know Tamerlin may not have actually known he was on a terrorist list, e.g., FBI doesn't actually say that? So, they at least knew they were being investigated and mom was told about the types of videos, etc. he was following. I wonder if mom knew she was being investigated at the time or was on a list. I'd still like to know more about why she was on the list.

Tamerlin may have known. He was questioned and anyone in his circumstances has to know lists are SOP, and he may have resented it and seen it as just one more proof 'the gods are against me!' ? I guess now we could classify him as an aggressive personality type? Certainly episodic and changeable-unstable, and ideology driven? Baader-Meinhof Gang members come to mind? No compromise ... very serious deadly matter for all in their path!
:banghead:

 

[georger]

Interesting connection...and we know they know where some of the components came from (mentioned green components available at hobby stores early on)--so maybe circuit boards are the mystery. Early on they (esp. FBI) kept saying the bombs themselves were pretty basic and easily put together using Internet instructions--but that the remote mechanisms were much more sophisticated, dangerous, and would take more instruction and/or practice to put together or operate effectively.

In these remote control car mechanisms there is a circuit board which
receives radio signals and move a servo connected to linkage (rods etc)
which control the car motor and steering - the same system used in radio
control airplanes I used to build as a kid. My guess is this radio-servo
control circuit board is the board being referred to ... just a guess on my
part!

You can buy these radio controlled toys everywhere! Taking them apart is
easy and converting them to another use would be easy. It's not rocket
science by any stretch. There are clubs for people in radio control hobbies
everywhere ... our local Aero Flyers has a weekend of events for the
public every year and it's well attended (thousands go to see it) ... so
the technology is freely available along with instruction .. freely available on
EBay etc ...

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

In these remote control car mechanisms there is a circuit board which
receives radio signals and move a servo connected to linkage (rods etc)
which control the car motor and steering - the same system used in radio
control airplanes I used to build as a kid. My guess is this radio-servo
control circuit board is the board being referred to ... just a guess on my
part!

You can buy these radio controlled toys everywhere! Taking them apart is
easy and converting them to another use would be easy. It's not rocket
science by any stretch. There are clubs for people in radio control hobbies
everywhere ... our local Aero Flyers has a weekend of events for the
public every year and it's well attended (thousands go to see it) ... so
the technology is freely available along with instruction .. freely available on
EBay etc ...

Probably also available at the hobby stores. But, I'm wondering with sillybilly's comment above, if it'd be less expensive and less traceable to buy just the circuit boards in 'bulk' from a known source outside the country (say, Canada)? And maybe even on eBay as you noted...

 

[noodled1]

My husband has killed and maimed many. I assure you he has a conscience.

Apples and oranges. I assume your husband is in the military. huge difference between what he does for god and country vs. a terrorist using religion as a tool to justify it's acts.

 

[Sillybilly]

The Tsarnaev family spokesperson, Kheda Saratova, has an interesting past:

Kheda Saratova is one of the last human rights advocates working in the open in Chechnya. Her friend and colleague Natalya Estimirova was abducted and shot by unknown assailants in 2009.

A few weeks later, two aid workers were found shot dead in the trunk of their car.

Saratova works to help families whose relatives are caught up in security sweeps by Kadyrov's forces, many held for months without charge or trial, others simply disappearing.

just one of many articles:
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2013/02/09/f-margaret-evans-grozny-makeover-chechnya.html

 

[claudicici]

Apples and oranges. I assume your husband is in the military. huge difference between what he does for god and country vs. a terrorist using religion as a tool to justify it's acts.

But for the terrorist it is the same.
The question was can someone who kills have a conscience.The soldier believes he is doing the right thing.He believes he has to do it for his country.What he does is considered heroic and rightous.

 

[claudicici]

Any of the three have criminal history, do we know anything about their academic performance , girlfriends, how others would describe 3 new charactors in our tale, do they have siblings, what were they studing, introvert/extrovert , playboys,substance abuse history, did they have relationship with TT.

SI had not heard this one:

Later he (younger ) would taunt America over al-Qaeda's most successful terror attack, "September 10th baby, you know what tomorrow is. Party at my house! £thingsyoudontyellwhenenteringaroom.


o much we do not know>...........

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...he-boston-marathon-bombing-investigation?lite

..I didn't even think about that I thought he was talking about him becoming a citizen....