The actual vs. desired outcome

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Holdontoyourhat said:
I sense your confusion. RDI has always had trouble characterizing the killer. Muslim, Santa Claus, PR, etc. Here, I'll help:

The killer developed a weapon to facilitate control and kill on a child.
The killer made repeated threats of extreme violence directed at a child, when only one small innuendo would have been enough.
The killer brought cord with him, and carried out a planned assault and murder on a child in the same house where the parents slept.
The killer demanded a ransom amount that makes sense to nobody. Not PR, JR, or anybody whom they know.
The killer had no fear leaving 2 1/2 pages of handwriting.
The killer escaped the law.
The killer didn't like the U.S. or 'fat cats'.
The killer worked in a group, as many in organized crime do.
The killer remembered and used lines from violent films.
The killer used the terms Victory and SBTC even though they didn't relate to kidnapping.
The killer's composition was better than his handwriting or spelling.
Click to expand...

Have you gotten much sleep lately?:rolleyes:
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Yeah - you got it. That's the way the scene was staged, that's the conclusion people were supposed to come to - parents wouldn't have done this so it must be the SFF described in the ludicrous and ridiculous RN that FBI didn't take seriously the second they saw it. You ate up every lie in the RN and believed them all, so now you sit and spit the RN "facts" back out. Way to fall for it hook, line, and sinker. Obviously the author's efforts were not in vain in this endeavor with people like you around to be sucked in.

Repeating what the RN said doesn't make it any more valid or believable. FBI agents with experience on kidnappings knew this RN was bogus right off. Agent Ron Walker knew that a body was going to be found - how? Because he knows from his experience that this RN is completely wrong and totally out of character with what is consistently seen in a kidnapping, and that the scene unfolding at the R house was consistent with a fatal domestic accident being covered up by desperate family members.

Just because the RN says it doesn't make it true. It's extremely possible, and according to handwriting and linguistics experts, extremely probable that a resident of the home wrote that RN. Why wouldn't either John or Patsy Ramsey, sitting and composing that RN to save their hides and preserve what's left of their family, be able to think of those threats etc entailed in the RN? Too brutal? I don't think so, especially if composed after JB was already dead. They certainly didn't want LE noticing that the RN wasn't vicious enough - same with the ligature. It's that simple.

Why didn't this SFF kill Burke instead or as well?
Click to expand...


I do believe he has some personal interest in trying to make it appear the R's aren't guilty.
It's just not working very well.
 
jeena said:
Two possible reasons why Burke is still alive:

Burke didn't fit the killer's MO like JBR and Sussanah Chase did, both blonde, both suffered head injuries, both murdered within a year apart almost to the exact day.

Other possibility is Burke may have killed JonBenet, accidentally or intentionally, and Patsy wrote the RN to cover it up. What if Burke and JBR went the kitchen during the night to get pineapple and an altercation between them occurred? Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl , JBR couldn't reach it. Patsy rushing Burke out of the house early in the morning makes him suspect in my opinion.

I am a fence sitter, aspects of both RDI and IDI scenarios make some sense to me, but I think PR wrote the RN, but for whom, is the question. I can't imagine a "foreign faction individual" using the antiquated word "hence" in the RN!
Click to expand...

Hi jeena,
I just wanted to say that it is nice to see a new face here. Please post some more. I promise we are all bark and no bite. :)
 
jeena said:
... I am a fence sitter, aspects of both RDI and IDI scenarios make some sense to me, but I think PR wrote the RN, but for whom, is the question. I can't imagine a "foreign faction individual" using the antiquated word "hence" in the RN!
Click to expand...

Welcome Jeena. You've been registered here longer than I have so maybe you should welcome me. :waitasec: Anyway, we need a good fence sitter. :)

Like you, I believe Patsy wrote the ransom note. I strongly believe the facts in the case suggest she recklessly caused JonBenet's accidental death. A part of me still wonders if another family member was involved in whatever happened but I don't see any evidence of that. I'm on the fence about when and how John became involved.

Colorado law is so different to the two states I'm familiar with that I don't know what to make of Burke's possible involvement, if he was involved at all. He would be a rare little boy to have kept a secret like that if he did it. I think, maybe, he knows a lot about what happened but I think his parents probably set him down and explained things to him, making it look like the nasty old detectives were trying to frame his mom and dad and their lawyers advised them to not talk to anyone about this, ever, for any reason and Burke had to do the same (and so on goes my imaginary story for why Burke hasn't talked).
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Yeah - you got it. That's the way the scene was staged, that's the conclusion people were supposed to come to - parents wouldn't have done this so it must be the SFF described in the ludicrous and ridiculous RN that FBI didn't take seriously the second they saw it. You ate up every lie in the RN and believed them all, so now you sit and spit the RN "facts" back out. Way to fall for it hook, line, and sinker. Obviously the author's efforts were not in vain in this endeavor with people like you around to be sucked in.

Repeating what the RN said doesn't make it any more valid or believable. FBI agents with experience on kidnappings knew this RN was bogus right off. Agent Ron Walker knew that a body was going to be found - how? Because he knows from his experience that this RN is completely wrong and totally out of character with what is consistently seen in a kidnapping, and that the scene unfolding at the R house was consistent with a fatal domestic accident being covered up by desperate family members.

Just because the RN says it doesn't make it true. It's extremely possible, and according to handwriting and linguistics experts, extremely probable that a resident of the home wrote that RN. Why wouldn't either John or Patsy Ramsey, sitting and composing that RN to save their hides and preserve what's left of their family, be able to think of those threats etc entailed in the RN? Too brutal? I don't think so, especially if composed after JB was already dead. They certainly didn't want LE noticing that the RN wasn't vicious enough - same with the ligature. It's that simple.

Why didn't this SFF kill Burke instead or as well?
Click to expand...

:clap: :clap: :dance: :clap:
 
jeena said:
Two possible reasons why Burke is still alive:

Burke didn't fit the killer's MO like JBR and Sussanah Chase did, both blonde, both suffered head injuries, both murdered within a year apart almost to the exact day.

Other possibility is Burke may have killed JonBenet, accidentally or intentionally, and Patsy wrote the RN to cover it up. What if Burke and JBR went the kitchen during the night to get pineapple and an altercation between them occurred? Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl , JBR couldn't reach it. Patsy rushing Burke out of the house early in the morning makes him suspect in my opinion.

I am a fence sitter, aspects of both RDI and IDI scenarios make some sense to me, but I think PR wrote the RN, but for whom, is the question. I can't imagine a "foreign faction individual" using the antiquated word "hence" in the RN!
Click to expand...

Welcome Jeena!!

I believe that Patsy wrote that note too. the "and hence" part of the letter, and also..."adequate size attaché" just doesn't seem too foreign to me. I don't know how much studying you have done on this case...but, Patsy loved all things FRENCH...notice the similarities between attaché and JonBenét? Also she had not one but TWO dogs with the same french name...Jacque.
 
jeena said:
I am a fence sitter, aspects of both RDI and IDI scenarios make some sense to me, but I think PR wrote the RN, but for whom, is the question. I can't imagine a "foreign faction individual" using the antiquated word "hence" in the RN!
Click to expand...
Hi jeena.

How can you understand an IDI scenario and think Patsey penned the RN?:waitasec:
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
I sense your confusion. RDI has always had trouble characterizing the killer. Muslim, Santa Claus, PR, etc. Here, I'll help:

The killer developed a weapon to facilitate control and kill on a child.
The killer made repeated threats of extreme violence directed at a child, when only one small innuendo would have been enough.
The killer brought cord with him, and carried out a planned assault and murder on a child in the same house where the parents slept.
The killer demanded a ransom amount that makes sense to nobody. Not PR, JR, or anybody whom they know.
The killer had no fear leaving 2 1/2 pages of handwriting.
The killer escaped the law.
The killer didn't like the U.S. or 'fat cats'.
The killer worked in a group, as many in organized crime do.
The killer remembered and used lines from violent films.
The killer used the terms Victory and SBTC even though they didn't relate to kidnapping.
The killer's composition was better than his handwriting or spelling.
Click to expand...

ZZZzzzzzzzzz
 
  1. The killer developed a weapon to facilitate control and kill on a child.
  2. The killer made repeated threats of extreme violence directed at a child, when only one small innuendo would have been enough.
  3. The killer brought cord with him, and carried out a planned assault and murder on a child in the same house where the parents slept.
  4. The killer demanded a ransom amount that makes sense to nobody. Not PR, JR, or anybody whom they know.
  5. The killer had no fear leaving 2 1/2 pages of handwriting.
  6. The killer escaped the law.
  7. The killer didn't like the U.S.
  8. The killer didn't like 'fat cats'.
  9. The killer worked in a group, as many in organized crime do.
  10. The killer remembered and used lines from violent films.
  11. The killer used the terms Victory and SBTC even though they didn't relate to kidnapping.
  12. The killer's composition was better than his handwriting or spelling.
1,2, 3, and 10 are evidence of a hardened criminal who is interested in the criminality of what he has done. Doing it while the parents are there, using a weapon, and terrorizing the parents.

5,6, and 7 actually work together also. If the killer is foreign, then no fear leaving handwriting, no problem escaping the law for 10 years, and looks at the US from the POV of an outsider.

4 and 8 are related. If JR's bonus was really 118,000, the perp may think that qualifies JR as a fat cat.

Its clear to see (pretty obvious) that the RN is more complicated than an on the spot improvisation could or would be. But only to those willing to look.
 
Thanks for the great welcome! I have been a member for a while, but haven't been accessing the site the past year or so due to family issues taking up so much of my time. The issues have been resolved now, so I have more time to enjoy this site.

To answer some of your questions, I guess I know more than the average person does about the case, but not down to the tiniest details like the posters here. It really amazes me how much you guys know about the JBR case, it's very interesting to read your posts, regardless if it's a RDI or IDI
point of view.

I read a little about the Colorado laws and decisions that could have been made by the Ramsey's if Burke did it. I remember one televised interview with PR, she flatly denied Burke's involvement in JBR's death when directly asked by the reporter.

I looked at several sites which have analysis of the RN, and it's hard to ignore many details possibly linking the note to PR. The French connection to PR is interesting, not many people would use the word attache to describe a briefcase.

It's hard for me to imagine that PR and JR would let Colorado spend over a million dollars to investigate JBR's death if it was caused by an accidental blow to the head with no intentional abuse or violence involved.

Has there ever been any discussion here regarding the possibility someone else could have been in the house, let in by the Ramsey's, after they returned from Fleet White's? It doesn't sound like they were too discriminating about who had access to their home and their keys.

One of my cousins used to live in Colorado and she told me she almost purchased a home from JR years ago. When I asked her who did she think killed JBR, she just stayed silent, I thought her reaction was so strange, she didn't even say I don't know, she said nothing. I was thinking that maybe since she considered buying a home from JR, she didn't want to think he was involved, but I don't really know, and would never ask her about it again.
 
Rino said:
Hi jeena.

How can you understand an IDI scenario and think Patsey penned the RN?:waitasec:
Click to expand...

That's easy, I think PR wrote the note, but not with 100% certainly.

We all know there was a killer in Boulder around the time of JBR's death due to Sussanah Chase's murder. Could the two deaths be caused by the same predator, maybe someone known to the Ramsey's?

JR admitted several people had keys to his home, someone could have torn a few sheets off the notepad while visiting or accessing the house prior to Dec. 25/26. and thoughtfully wrote the note, perhaps adding words or phrases to frame PR, but I don't know how likely that scenario is.


This is why I am a fence sitter.......
 
jeena said:
That's easy, I think PR wrote the note, but not with 100% certainly.

We all know there was a killer in Boulder around the time of JBR's death due to Sussanah Chase's murder. Could the two deaths be caused by the same predator, maybe someone known to the Ramsey's?

JR admitted several people had keys to his home, someone could have torn a few sheets off the notepad while visiting or accessing the house prior to Dec. 25/26. and thoughtfully wrote the note, perhaps adding words or phrases to frame PR, but I don't know how likely that scenario is.


This is why I am a fence sitter.......
Click to expand...

jeena,
In this post and the previous one, you bring up good points and things I had never thought of before (like someone tearing a few sheets off the notepad).
I am firmly RDI. But for a couple of years before Patsy's death, I was a fence sitter leaning towards IDI. When Patsy died I went on the net and found Websleuths. That very day, I was back to RDI.
Not that I want to push you off the fence or anything!! I appreciate your input and hope you can stay with us a while. You are very polite, and you have good reasons why you are on the fence. :blowkiss:
 
jeena said:
...
I read a little about the Colorado laws and decisions that could have been made by the Ramsey's if Burke did it. I remember one televised interview with PR, she flatly denied Burke's involvement in JBR's death when directly asked by the reporter. ...

It's hard for me to imagine that PR and JR would let Colorado spend over a million dollars to investigate JBR's death if it was caused by an accidental blow to the head with no intentional abuse or violence involved....
Click to expand...

I don't think people at the wealth level of the Ramseys gave it a thought about what the State of Colorado had to pay. I think they would have let Colorado go bankrupt if it had meant keeping them out of jail. John Ramsey probably did little to discourage the spending in 2006 because the "best" suspect had died in June and Ramsey probably wouldn't want anyone focusing on him alone. Karr was a great diversion. I'd say at this point, the Colorado judicial system says "cut your losses and let it rest."

As to Patsy adamantly denying Burke's involvement, I tend to believe her. If she killed JonBenet or knew who did, it would be a big burden to see your surviving child under that umbrella of suspicion when you, the mother, know he had nothing to do with it. If she did it, that's sleazy to put your other child in a position he has to defend the rest of his life.
 
Squishified said:
jeena,
In this post and the previous one, you bring up good points and things I had never thought of before (like someone tearing a few sheets off the notepad).
I am firmly RDI. But for a couple of years before Patsy's death, I was a fence sitter leaning towards IDI. When Patsy died I went on the net and found Websleuths. That very day, I was back to RDI.
Not that I want to push you off the fence or anything!! I appreciate your input and hope you can stay with us a while. You are very polite, and you have good reasons why you are on the fence. :blowkiss:
Click to expand...


There could have been another person known to the Ramsey's in the house Christmas night, either before or after they arrived home from the White's.

Many women claim to have been abused by a "funny" uncle, grandparents, friends of family etc. when they were young. PR could have written the RN to cover-up for someone other than JR or Burke, and if fingerprints from people close to the Ramsey's were found in the home they wouldn't be out of place.


Thanks for the compliments, I'll stay on the fence for now
 
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