The case for murder

[MyBelle]

I see your quote about victims. I am stating that the Zahou family deserves the same access and treatment that the shacknai family appears to have with LE, case notes and property needs to be returned. I fail to see anything in the quote that refers to that. I have yet to see any letters written by the Zahou family on the LE website...:waitasec:

BBM. Perhaps the reason there have been no letters on the website is because the Zahou family has written no letters to LE?

I have yet to see any real evidence LE has mistreated the Zahou family in any way.

I think the access and treatment provided to the Shacknai family is typical. LE take the deaths of children especially to heart and seem to extend an extra dose of compassion especially to mothers in cases where child abuse is suspected.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I think that they have every right to question the le considering how much evidence they have found themselves ie..phone records, additional footprints, head trauma, all of which the le did not come forward with. I don't think that they have bashed any law enforcement agencies. And would love to see the links to back those statements up. They have every right to bring this evidence to the le attention and ask for answers. Mo

Every P.D. has a process in place for complaints and criticism. I'm not aware of any, however, that include the tabloid media in that process.

JMO

 

[stilettos]

BBM. Perhaps the reason there have been no letters on the website is because the Zahou family has written no letters to LE?

I have yet to see any real evidence LE has mistreated the Zahou family in any way.

I think the access and treatment provided to the Shacknai family is typical. LE take the deaths of children especially to heart and seem to extend an extra dose of compassion especially to mothers in cases where child abuse is suspected.

JMO

While I applaud compassion extended to those left behind after such a tragedy...I am all about equal justice...who is to say that Rebecca's Mother does not deserve the same access and consideration afforded MS's Mother. There are enough questions in this case that need answers...I see no reason why the Zahou family cannot get their answers...unless someone has something to hide?

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I found this list police incident reports. Not sure what to make of them.
Did the Shacknai's come to this house last year?

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/shacknai-police-reports.pdf

 

[branwynbreeze]

members of the public aren't necessarily taxpayers. Specific to this case, which is closed, Rebecca's family aren't even taxpayers to the SDSO. That's my point. All this bashing of the SDSO seems to me to be without basis.

JMO

As a California State tax payer, I'd have no problem with my tax dollars going to reopen investigation. My family in San Diego County have no issues with it either.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

While I applaud compassion extended to those left behind after such a tragedy...I am all about equal justice...who is to say that Rebecca's Mother does not deserve the same access and consideration afforded MS's Mother. There are enough questions in this case that need answers...I see no reason why the Zahou family cannot get their answers...unless someone has something to hide?

I think there is a complaint process in place for those who are not satisfied. Every large LE agency in the U.S. deals with dissatisfied citizens in such a fashion and not everybody is ever satisfied.

I don't believe four different law enforcement agencies are all hiding something from Rebecca's mother. Sorry, that is just a little too far-fetched to believe.

JMO

 

[SunnieRN]

BBM. Perhaps the reason there have been no letters on the website is because the Zahou family has written no letters to LE?

I have yet to see any real evidence LE has mistreated the Zahou family in any way.

I think the access and treatment provided to the Shacknai family is typical. LE take the deaths of children especially to heart and seem to extend an extra dose of compassion especially to mothers in cases where child abuse is suspected.

JMO

I will hope and pray that you are never in the position that the Zahau family finds themselves to be in. I remember when I was 5 and my aunt was killed. She had a lot of problems and issues and was not a 'good girl'. I still remember her and her boyfriend, who scared the crap out of me and wasn't allowed to come to out house. I didn't understand the implications of her being in a motorcycle gang.

She was killed, on a beach in Santa Cruz CA. Her boyfriend was pretty high up in the Hell's Angel's and from my understanding of things when I got older, he avenged her death. The police attitude did, and to this day continues to irk me, "Well people who run with that crowd are putting themselves in danger. We can't find out who killed her because they wont talk.". My Aunts boyfriend was there, as were 5 of his friends. They saw the people who killed her. They still wouldn't get involved.

Even if it is that true, that yes, indeed she was a 'bad girl', does that mean someone should have been allowed to kill my aunt and get away with it? Of course not. Does that mean that my Dad, a law abiding citizen, never in his life arrested, needed to be quiet and NOT question LE or their attitude and lack of action?

I see the same kind of attitude here. It is heart breaking that the Zahau family, wanting answers, can not get them and is vilified for even asking for answers. I can assure you, had I been old enough, had a method of getting to the media and talking to them, I would have done as much as I could have done, to find out who killed my aunt.

That is my personal stake in the Zahau family getting their questions answered.

While I applaud compassion extended to those left behind after such a tragedy...I am all about equal justice...who is to say that Rebecca's Mother does not deserve the same access and consideration afforded MS's Mother. There are enough questions in this case that need answers...I see no reason why the Zahou family cannot get their answers...unless someone has something to hide?

:bananapowerslide::smiliescale: Thank you!!

 

[TorisMom003]

What exactly is tabloid media? When I hear of that I think of the National Inquirer, Star or something similar to that. So what exactly is it? What media outlets have Rebecca's family gone to and told their story and how they feel that their sister, daughter, sister-in-law, etc was murdered instead of killing herself? I know that they have been on the Today Show as I saw that episode. What else have they been on? Is the Today Show somehow supposed to be considered tabloid media? If so then someone needs to alert President Obama and all other politicians, doctors, teachers, etc that the show is not something that some of the general viewing public consider a realiable media source.

MOO

 

[deanna82437]

Every P.D. has a process in place for complaints and criticism. I'm not aware of any, however, that include the tabloid media in that process.

JMO

JMO, but my response makes just about as much sense (if not more) than your statement above. Make sure you note, though, that it's just my opinion.

Sparrows that emulate peacocks are

likely to break a thigh.

- Burmese Proverb

:shush:​

 

[sorrell skye]

..i wonder if he would have found the demo as "engaging" if, for example, rebecca's sister (of the same size, and with also no knot tying experience ) had done the presentation and fumbled through it -----rather than watching a member of law enforcement --who clearly had knowledge of knot tying-- do the re-enactment ?

I meant to reply to this the other day, but got sidetracked.

ITA, Lauriej!

As far as I'm concerned, the video re-enactment of the knot tying has little evidentiary value (in terms of "iron-clad" evidence that RZ tied the knots).

1. We have no idea how much knot expertise the person in the video may have (apparently, she seems to possess the required skill, or was given ample time in which to practice until she acquired the necessary skill for the purpose of the demo).

2. IMO, this person was made aware beforehand exactly what type of knot was used on RZ's wrists, and was merely replicating it - similar to following a tried & true recipe as opposed to inventing a recipe from scratch.

3. We have no idea how many practice runs were performed until the demo was just right, at which time it was filmed.

4. I seriously doubt the person in the video was given a 60' length of rope, with instructions to not only figure out all on her own how to tie the knots (with no prior knowledge of the knots found on RZ's bindings), but also with instructions to cut the rope into precise sections (using a kitchen knife, or two), in order to bind her ankles & wrists, as well as to fashion a workable noose - all while leaving the exact amount of rope needed to tie to the bed frame & hang herself from a balcony railing - and to do so within a limited time period.

What the public saw was the final product that the SDCSD wanted the public to see.

 

[time]

While I applaud compassion extended to those left behind after such a tragedy...I am all about equal justice...who is to say that Rebecca's Mother does not deserve the same access and consideration afforded MS's Mother. There are enough questions in this case that need answers...I see no reason why the Zahou family cannot get their answers...unless someone has something to hide?

Well said. I believe Rebecca's family deserves to be fully informed and full consideration/cooperation from LE. I am still upset they did not have that during the initial investigation. If I remember correctly, Mary said they were not even asked to identify the body. I cannot understand that as they are her next of kin unless Jonah produced a marriage certificate! I am not claiming Jonah is guilty, however, I cringe when a suspicious death has taken place and the partner is not considered the primary suspect and may have control over what happens to Rebecca's belongings, what is believed to have happened, and so on.

 

[SunnieRN]

I meant to reply to this the other day, but got sidetracked.

ITA, Lauriej!

As far as I'm concerned, the video re-enactment of the knot tying has little evidentiary value (in terms of "iron-clad" evidence that RZ tied the knots).

1. We have no idea how much knot expertise the person in the video may have (apparently, she seems to possess the required skill, or was given ample time in which to practice until she acquired the necessary skill for the purpose of the demo).

2. IMO, this person was made aware beforehand exactly what type of knot was used on RZ's wrists, and was merely replicating it - similar to following a tried & true recipe as opposed to inventing a recipe from scratch.

3. We have no idea how many practice runs were performed until the demo was just right, at which time it was filmed.

4. I seriously doubt the person in the video was given a 60' length of rope, with instructions to not only figure out all on her own how to tie the knots (with no prior knowledge of the knots found on RZ's bindings), but also with instructions to cut the rope into precise sections (using a kitchen knife, or two), in order to bind her ankles & wrists, as well as to fashion a workable noose - all while leaving the exact amount of rope needed to tie to the bed frame & hang herself from a balcony railing - and to do so within a limited time period.

What the public saw was the final product that the SDCSD wanted the public to see.

Done without sound, done without showing the actual bindings that Rebecca had binding her hands, replicating what SDSO stated took hours for them to figure out. Yea, um hum!

 

[sdcali]

I absolutely agree with you that they've captured LE's attention. I think they've also captured the attention of the FBI, US Attorney as well as California's senior law enfocement.

Accusing multiple LE agencies of crimes and hiding something only invites closer scrutiny by LE if it is just words and no real evidence. I have yet to see any evidence the four LE agencies investigating the cases were nothing but fine, upstanding agencies of professional men and women.

JMO

BBM

Just to cite one example for you:

What do you call the officer's footprint on the balcony? That was a gross contamination of a crime scene (at the time it happened it WAS a crime scene).

Not the actions of a professional as you stated above.

 

[sdcali]

Done without sound, done without showing the actual bindings that Rebecca had binding her hands, replicating what SDSO stated took hours for them to figure out. Yea, um hum!

Yes, Sunnie spot on!! AND you could clearly tell she was being coached. The first time I watched that video, I laughed outloud. What a joke! Seriously, does LE take the public for idiots?

 

[lauriej]

Done without sound, done without showing the actual bindings that Rebecca had binding her hands, replicating what SDSO stated took hours for them to figure out. Yea, um hum!

..and, since she would have bound her hands last----it would have been prudent to demonstrate 1st how she fashioned that noose ( i personally wouldn't know how to make one, i'd be afraid that knot would come undone and i'd just break my legs )

---and please, show us the ankle binding, complete with getting the tow rope handle in there ( she had 2 knives handy-----why not cut that yellow handle off? i'd think it would totally be in the way..)

..and then show us the demo-woman , with the noose around her neck, t-shirt gag in her mouth, making her way across the room, dragging the extra hanging rope with her----and getting over to the balcony rail...ending up on her tippy-toes.

..nope-------that demo did nothing for me.

 

[SunnieRN]

Also please explain why there was black paint on her hand and fingers, on her breast, on the rope around her hand, but not on the bindings around her feet, the noose or the t shirt. The binding on her hands would have been done after all of those other bindings. And PLEASE do NOT tell me she had all the bindings, including the noose and the gag in place as she hopped on over to paint the doorway. Yea, right.:innocent::furious:

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

..and, since she would have bound her hands last----it would have been prudent to demonstrate 1st how she fashioned that noose ( i personally wouldn't know how to make one, i'd be afraid that knot would come undone and i'd just break my legs )

---and please, show us the ankle binding, complete with getting the tow rope handle in there ( she had 2 knives handy-----why not cut that yellow handle off? i'd think it would totally be in the way..)

..and then show us the demo-woman , with the noose around her neck, t-shirt gag in her mouth, making her way across the room, dragging the extra hanging rope with her----and getting over to the balcony rail...ending up on her tippy-toes.

..nope-------that demo did nothing for me.

In the Press Conference the SD Medical Examiner made a big deal about the hand bindings stating they were lose and he easily pulled her hand out of it. He also mentions her fingers were on the "pull" that would keep that binding tight. BUT BUT BUT.... WHAT HE DOES NOT SEEM TO REALIZE IS ADAM SHACKNAI LOOSENED HER BINDINGS AT THE REQUEST OF 911... that is NOT how she was originally found!!!!

No one EVER explains the contusions on her head.

Apparently the t-shirt was around her HEAD and neck five times and the end in her mouth as a gag.

That is A HUGE MISTAKE!!!

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

They Key person that finds her body...ADAM... his LIE DETECTOR TEST IS INCONCLUSIVE.. BUT BUT BUT... LE told the Zahau family he passed the lie detector test with flying colours in record time.... THAT IS A LIE!!!!

 

[SunnieRN]

Not sounding quite as thorough or professional right about now, are they?

 

[lauriej]

--snipped---

No one EVER explains the contusions on her head.

Apparently the t-shirt was around her HEAD and neck five times and the end in her mouth as a gag.

That is A HUGE MISTAKE!!!

..after failing to even mention the 4 subgaleal hemorrhages at the press conference-----news 8 called him out on it once the AR was released..

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/...to-zahau-family-attorney?clienttype=printable

A News 8 review of the autopsy revealed Zahau had four head injuries underneath her scalp, sticky tape residue on her legs, and a T-shirt in her mouth at the time of her death.

Deputy Medical Examiner Jonathan Lucas released a written statement to News 8 responding to the new evidence revealed in the autopsy, evidence which was never publicly addressed in a 90-minute news conference held Friday by the San Diego County Sheriff, Coronado police, and the medical examiner.

The entire statement by San Diego County Deputy Medical Examiner Jonathan Lucas reads:
--snipped---

Bruises on the right side of her scalp were also seen. These were relatively minor. Because there was evidence that she went over the balcony in a non-vertical position, she may have struck her head on the balcony on the way down.

-------------there you go, he noted them in the AR, thought nothing of them----and she "may" have hit her head causing them to occur.

( thanks for the usual brush-off nothing answer M.E.lucas..)