The case for murder

[screecher]

I think hinkymeter did a video reenactment also. She couldn't get over the railing IIRC.

Yes. I've been on you tube for the last hour trying to find it. To no avail. :banghead:

 

[time]

http://trialwatchnetwork.com/death-investigation-rebecca-zahau-analysis/

"if her twin sister Nina played any role, her DNA would be the same as Dina’s."

I think he doesn't realize they are not identical twins

 

[Betty P]

Yes. I've been on you tube for the last hour trying to find it. To no avail. :banghead:

Yes, I think she took everything off the internet. It was a pretty good demonstration.

Hinky, being about the same height and weight as RZ, stood behind a dining chair. IIRC, she adjusted for differences in height of railing vs. back of chair by standing on something. With her hands behind her back and with her feet bound together, she tried to raise herself high enough to get her waist and upper body over the back of the chair. It was extremely difficult, pretty much impossible, IIRC.

RZ would have had to do a lot of squirming around and jumping, to get high enough to get over. Nearly impossible to do with gag and binding on hands and feet.

 

[time]

Yes, I think she took everything off the internet. It was a pretty good demonstration.

Hinky, being about the same height and weight as RZ, stood behind a dining chair. IIRC, she adjusted for differences in height of railing vs. back of chair by standing on something. With her hands behind her back and with her feet bound together, she tried to raise herself high enough to get her waist and upper body over the back of the chair. It was extremely difficult, pretty much impossible, IIRC.

RZ would have had to do a lot of squirming around and jumping, to get high enough to get over. Nearly impossible to do with gag and binding on hands and feet.

And, that counteracts any claims someone would tie their hands and feet to ensure they went through with it - not that it's believable anyway. Another thing, there seems to be no reason for someone committing suicide to tie such a long rope, inside to the bedframe. No reason they wouldn't tie it to the balcony, is there. So why would a murder do that? I'm still wondering if she wasn't hanged (somewhere) and then hoisted up. Possible that would also avoid making too many telltale footprints on the balcony? Would that explain the small amount of dust disturbance on the railing? Just trying to see all this with new eyes.

 

[Quester]

Any chance a drone, satellite, Google Earth, etc. passed overhead on that fateful night
and captured pictures of activity on the property??

IIRC, the moon was nearly full that night.

 

[EverybodyLies]

I think Dina sunk her own boat by making the recent comments on the lawsuit. It's become painfully obvious over the past two years and with Dina claiming Max was murdered (with no precipitating events) and implicitly claiming that Rebecca was not murdered (with a huge precipitating event 1 1/2 days before, motive and opportunity on her part, and her past history) that...

Dina's claim Max was murdered = Justification for murdering Rebecca.

It appears even people not so familiar with the case can see this.

What do you mean? Why would someone advocate for the re-opening of both cases then?

 

[EverybodyLies]

I think hinkymeter did a video reenactment also. She couldn't get over the railing IIRC.

Was that website shut down?

 

[time]

What do you mean? Why would someone advocate for the re-opening of both cases then?

I'm not understanding your question?

 

[DeDee]

Oh DeDee my heart broke reading about your dear girlfriend... I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE THOUGHT OF SOMEONE getting away with murder. My eyes fill with tears, because she was probably so afraid. Although I/we tend to look at '''the current man" in her life....let's not rule out an unidentified intruder, either. Thank you for reading the article (I know it was a long one...but full of information that needs to be shared...especially to law enforcement investigators!) Remember, Drew Petersen killed his wife by hitting her in the head and drowning her in a bathtub...ya' know the "accident BS line." Sadly he got away with it for almost a decade, until the 3rd Mrs. Petersen disappeared... WHAT THE HE--!? Adults do not drown in bathtubs....unless they are greatly impaired to begin with! Beautiful young women do not hang themselves...they cut, do pills, carbon monoxide etc....the only exception, I know, is a long history of documented mental illness.

Thank you, IQuestion. Please know it was not my intention to cause anyone to suffer by revealing my sweet girlfriend's demise. There was no mental illness history. There was no intruder involved. A few years following her death, I was able to confront her boyfriend to ask him if he could explain the death in a way in which I could no longer believe he murdered my beautiful friend. Sadly, the otherwise articulate attorney was not able to do so. However, good things often come from devastating events. Her brother left a career as a successful architect after his beloved sister's death to pursue a career in theology. He is currently an endearing minister to many.

While researching the Rebecca Zahau case some concerns developed. One concern is the copy of a forgein film "The Housemaid" that, if I am not mistaken, was found at the residence. Another concern are the searches on Rebecca's laptop the evening prior to her death that contained, to use the term loosely, *advertiser censored*.

After viewing several exerts for the movie "The Housemaid", I find it suspiciously coincidental that multiple similarities exist in this case, such as the highly unusual and shocking method chosen for a suicide, as well as the glass chandelier significance.

Further, how can we be certain that the art of Shibari was not practiced within the privacy of the mansion thereby providing the necessary skills for the rope tying?

Whether it is death by murder or by suicide, the case captured international headlines and that could have been one of the intentions.

My opinions only...

 

[EverybodyLies]

I really don't understand why Dina keeps insisting that Max was under the care of Rebecca......HE WAS UNDER THE CARE OF HIS FATHER JONAH............that is who she should be going after. He has the money which she wants and needs, IMO.

As a verified insider, can you expand on what you mean by "he has the money which she wants and needs"? And just in general, if I have custody of my child per a custody agreement and I leave my child in the care of anyone else in my absence, even for a short time, I have left my child under the care of someone else. I have a custody agreement in the State of California, so I understand each parent's rights and responsibilities under the laws of this state--so what's the mystery about whose care he was under and what does "that is who she should be going after" mean? This is so confusing...

 

[EverybodyLies]

I'm not understanding your question?

I thought I had read somewhere, which of course now I cannot find, that she had hoped for a re-opening of both cases.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you, IQuestion. Please know it was not my intention to cause anyone to suffer by revealing my sweet girlfriend's demise. There was no mental illness history. There was no intruder involved. A few years following her death, I was able to confront her boyfriend to ask him if he could explain the death in a way in which I could no longer believe he murdered my beautiful friend. Sadly, the otherwise articulate attorney was not able to do so. However, good things often come from devastating events. Her brother left a career as a successful architect after his beloved sister's death to pursue a career in theology. He is currently an endearing minister to many.

While researching the Rebecca Zahau case some concerns developed. One concern is the copy of a forgein film "The Housemaid" that, if I am not mistaken, was found at the residence. Another concern are the searches on Rebecca's laptop the evening prior to her death that contained, to use the term loosely, *advertiser censored*.

After viewing several exerts for the movie "The Housemaid", I find it suspiciously coincidental that multiple similarities exist in this case, such as the highly unusual and shocking method chosen for a suicide, as well as the glass chandelier significance.

Further, how can we be certain that the art of Shibari was not practiced within the privacy of the mansion thereby providing the necessary skills for the rope tying?

Whether it is death by murder or by suicide, the case captured international headlines and that could have been one of the intentions.

My opinions only...

Whole thing is too bizarre IMO

 

[time]

I thought I had read somewhere, which of course now I cannot find, that she had hoped for a re-opening of both cases.

Dina has never asked for both cases to be reopened, only Max's. I think it was Dr. Phil who nearly forced her into a twisted face nod when he said something like 'Rebecca's case need to be looked into, don't you agree?" (paraphrasing a bunch). Dina has never once said Rebecca's death is suspicious.

It was the Zahau's who have always said both cases need to be reopened or reinvestigated. I also agree with that, not because I think there was any foul play in Max's case but to put it to rest and to do a better job of reenacting an accident scenario. For those who think there could have been others int he house, I think these questions could be put to rest also.

 

[bourne]

And, that counteracts any claims someone would tie their hands and feet to ensure they went through with it - not that it's believable anyway. Another thing, there seems to be no reason for someone committing suicide to tie such a long rope, inside to the bedframe. No reason they wouldn't tie it to the balcony, is there. So why would a murder do that? I'm still wondering if she wasn't hanged (somewhere) and then hoisted up. Possible that would also avoid making too many telltale footprints on the balcony? Would that explain the small amount of dust disturbance on the railing? Just trying to see all this with new eyes.

I have a good theory about why the rope was tied to the bed instead of the balcony railing. It only makes sense from a murderer's perspective. Had the murderers attached/tied the hanging rope from the balcony railing, they would have to ENTER the balcony and leave indelible footprints on the dusty balcony floor.

So instead, the murderers tied the noose-hanging rope using stabilizing knots on the bedpost inside the murder room. They used gloves to handle everything -- the ropes, paint, knives, bindings of Rebecca. That is why NO prints/DNA were found on the items, and only mixed DNA were found which they might inadvertently have left despite wearing gloves.

The reason they tied the hanging rope inside the murder room is because each of the three defendants now named in the Zahaus' wrongful death suit (Dina, Nina and Adam) felt, if the investigators found any of their DNA/prints in the room, they can easily explain the prints/DNA away. Dina could say she had lived in the Spreckels mansion with Jonah in the past, and Nina and Adam could claim they visited and used that murder room in the past. They'd all be able to claim that it is not unusual for some of their residual prints/DNA to still be inside the murder room because they had used it (frequently) in the past.

However, had the murderers wanted to tie the rope to the balcony railing, they would have to step onto the dusty balcony and in doing so, they would have to leave FOOTPRINTS. Their footprints would indicate they were at the Spreckels mansion RECENTLY. THAT they cannot easily explain away because no one would reasonably believe that these three defendants' footprints were left "from the distant past" when likely rain would have washed those old footprints off and dust would have then accumulated on top of those old footprints, thoroughly covering them already.

And OMG I just had a eureka moment. A most plausible theory as to why the 3-legged table broke is that the 3 murderers had originally wanted to hang the rope directly from the balcony railing but did not want to walk onto the dusty balcony floor to tie the rope for fear they'd leave footprints. So they tried to stand atop the courtyard table to tie the rope to the balcony railing FROM BELOW. But when the murderers climbed atop the table, they were so heavy, one leg of the table broke off! :scared:

In short, I believe strongly that the murderers then decided the best place to tie the hanging rope would be to the bedpost inside the murder room. They stood at the balcony doors inside the room and threw the hogtied Rebecca over the balcony railing. That is why there was a shoeprint and bootprint at the balcony doors only.

 

[Betty P]

Was that website shut down?

No, the owner took it down herself. She didn't provide many details, but IIRC, she was getting some harassment from someone related to another case.

ETA: I double checked an old blog of hers and she stopped because of problems she was dealing with related to family, elderly parents w/ health problems.

 

[time]

Thank you, IQuestion. Please know it was not my intention to cause anyone to suffer by revealing my sweet girlfriend's demise. There was no mental illness history. There was no intruder involved. A few years following her death, I was able to confront her boyfriend to ask him if he could explain the death in a way in which I could no longer believe he murdered my beautiful friend. Sadly, the otherwise articulate attorney was not able to do so. However, good things often come from devastating events. Her brother left a career as a successful architect after his beloved sister's death to pursue a career in theology. He is currently an endearing minister to many.

While researching the Rebecca Zahau case some concerns developed. One concern is the copy of a forgein film "The Housemaid" that, if I am not mistaken, was found at the residence. Another concern are the searches on Rebecca's laptop the evening prior to her death that contained, to use the term loosely, *advertiser censored*.

After viewing several exerts for the movie "The Housemaid", I find it suspiciously coincidental that multiple similarities exist in this case, such as the highly unusual and shocking method chosen for a suicide, as well as the glass chandelier significance.

Further, how can we be certain that the art of Shibari was not practiced within the privacy of the mansion thereby providing the necessary skills for the rope tying?

Whether it is death by murder or by suicide, the case captured international headlines and that could have been one of the intentions.

My opinions only...

So, you think Jonah and Rebecca engaged in Shibari and had that video around because it was related to some fantasy role AND that somehow connects to Rebecca looking at bondage *advertiser censored*/rape/and Asian anime after Max's accident? And, I guess you are saying that was part of her whole suicide mentality?

I agree, as I've said before, that some of the knots could possibly look like someone was acquainted with Shibari (not sure the same knots are actually used though), but to me it looks far more likely that someone planted the whole Korean Housemaid video and the searches on the computer for *advertiser censored* with those keywords (which was evidently accessed with a Southwestern Airlines account).

I really can't see Rebecca looking up anime nor really interested in the Housemaid movie. So, is Dina supposed to represent the older housemaid in the movie?

Eun-yi is an innocent young woman who is hired as an upper class family housemaid, and is tasked to take care of the family's small daughter and her pregnant mother, Hae-ra. Byung-sik is an older housemaid who has been with this family for a long time and holds many secrets. But soon enough, the master of the house, Hoon, takes advantage of his social position by slipping into the new housemaid's bed. Hoon's visits become frequent and Byung-sik reports the affair to Hae-ra's mother Mi-hee, who plots to give Hae-ra the control over her husband. Soon Eun-yi becomes pregnant by Hoon and wants to keep the baby. This is discovered by the family and Eun-yi is forced by Mi-hee to have an abortion despite the young woman's pleas to let her keep the baby and leave the house.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_housemaid/

Or did they have the older version of the movie?

Kim Ki-Young directed this suspenseful and disturbing tale of obsession and guilt. Dong-sik (Kim Jin-kyu) is a music teacher whose wife (Ju Jeung-ryu) is expecting a baby. The couple already has two children, and Dong-sik is having trouble covering the bills now that they've moved into a bigger house at his wife's insistence. Hoping to make things easier for his spouse, Dong-sik hires a young woman (Lee Eun-shim) to help with the household chores. However, the new housekeeper has a secret -- she was a close friend of a woman who lost her job and then her life as a result of Dong-sik's betrayal of a confidence. Soon the new housekeeper is using her sensual wiles to lure Dong-sik into infidelity and wrecking her revenge against him and his loved ones.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hanyo/

 

[defense101]

I listened to the audio of Tricia's show again.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websle...as-true-crime-radio-sunday-night-8-pm-eastern

At the 72:30 mark they began discussing this case. She said the Websleuths poster was cynic. So the animation *Lash* posted from Page 1 of this thread seems to be what Tricia was referring to.

Somehow I expected something more extensive. But this is not meant to diminish the fine work by cynic.

And what cynics re enactment showed was that she would have had to a leaned over the balcony but there were only three small disturbed marks in the dust on the balcony railing.

 

[DeDee]

Hello, time. My responses are typed in blue.

So, you think Jonah and Rebecca engaged in Shibari and had that video around because it was related to some fantasy role AND that somehow connects to Rebecca looking at bondage *advertiser censored*/rape/and Asian anime after Max's accident? And, I guess you are saying that was part of her whole suicide mentality?

I believe it is possible that there was intimate knowledge of bondage.

I agree, as I've said before, that some of the knots could possibly look like someone was acquainted with Shibari (not sure the same knots are actually used though), but to me it looks far more likely that someone planted the whole Korean Housemaid video and the searches on the computer for *advertiser censored* with those keywords (which was evidently accessed with a Southwestern Airlines account).

It challenges my imagination to consider that JS, AS, and/or Dina would have the time to quickly conceive the plot to murder RZ, plant the necessary evidence and carry out the deed given the fact that Maxie's parents were experiencing great despair over their young son's grave condition. I find it more likely JS let RZ know she was no longer welcome in his home.

I really can't see Rebecca looking up anime nor really interested in the Housemaid movie. So, is Dina supposed to represent the older housemaid in the movie?

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_housemaid/

I did not know the victim personally so I cannot say whether or not RZ ever participated in bondage.

Or did they have the older version of the movie?

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hanyo/

While I cannot conclusively state which versions of the Housemaid movie were discovered at the mansion or if RZ ever watched it; I rather doubt it was the older black and white version but more likely the latest, more recent remake. For me, the significance of the glass chandelier and the shocking manner of the suicides are strikingly similar, more so than the individual roles played in the movies. For example, JS is not a master pianist. As already mentioned, I have only viewed exerts of (both) Housemaid versions although that fact could change.

Was there any fiber evidence found on the rope that would indicate anyone may have touched it while wearing gloves? As one CA LE once said, "not all evidence can be explained". The adhesive on RZs shins may fall into this category.

I would be interested in reading the journal RZ kept in her phone.

MOO and subject to change.

 

[Betty P]

Hello, time. My responses are typed in blue.
While I cannot conclusively state which versions of the Housemaid movie were discovered at the mansion or if RZ ever watched it; I rather doubt it was the older black and white version but more likely the latest, more recent remake. For me, the significance of the glass chandelier and the shocking manner of the suicides are strikingly similar, more so than the individual roles played in the movies. For example, JS is not a master pianist. As already mentioned, I have only viewed exerts of (both) Housemaid versions although that fact could change.



I still think the movie is a "red herring" in the case. Though I'm not familiar with the chandelier in the movie, it seems pretty unbelievable that RZ would concoct some scheme to kill MS using a chandelier. It gets back to the basic question many of us have had all along WRT Max's death - what possible motive would RZ have for killing that child? What would she possibly gain from doing so? Nothing.

 

[time]

"DeDee wrote: It challenges my imagination to consider that JS, AS, and/or Dina would have the time to quickly conceive the plot to murder RZ, plant the necessary evidence and carry out the deed given the fact that Maxie's parents were experiencing great despair over their young son's grave condition. I find it more likely JS let RZ know she was no longer welcome in his home.:

It challenges mine more to think that movie is related to Max's death via Rebecca harming him and then killing herself and so on.

Dina was gone from the hospital Tues for quite some time from morning until early evening - possibly up to 12 hours. No one is exactly sure how much time she even spent there Tues evening. It raises some red flags for me.

The movie may be a red herring as Betty said, but if it had anything to do with the two deaths, I'd have to look towards Dina since that is what would make the most sense based on the content.

I do not believe Jonah was involved in any of this BTW. I'm not sure Adam was and I can see where the *advertiser censored* access could even have been setting Adam up.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to believe Dina could plan this type of thing in fairly short order (was Nina involved?). Dina already had what seems to be some pretty hateful ideas about Rebecca (and Jonah although a different dynamic I'm sure).

Maybe Dina and Jonah were engaged in some kinky stuff (which is fine) and she extended that to her jealousy of Rebecca or did some of it to send a message - just like the note on the door. Dina even goes so far in the Boy Interrupted article to talk about what a statuesque beauty Jonah thought she was. Most women are probably a little PO'd if their ex ends up with a much younger woman - and one that could have bore Jonah more children. Seems to me that has something to do with why Dina keeps saying "My only son".

No one commits suicide and write a note like that, most notably in the third person but also the content. It makes no sense at all to think Rebecca wrote it unless someone forced her to paint it - that is something I think is entirely feasible. And, who has *advertiser censored* on their mind before they commit suicide?

Per the fibers... one of the gloves was Black Latex/Nitrile so no fibers. I can't remember about the other(s).

2. Pair black gloves
21. Black latex glove

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

I never heard anyone say they checked them inside and out for DNA (anyone?). I never heard that SDSD tried to track down where they came from. They seemed to also give up easily on where the rope came from once they could claim there was some disturbed dust in the garage.