The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[andreww]

And yet he said the killer took a knife and demonstrated plunging it into his sister.

That doesn't add up.

I think he was referring to knowing his sister had been taken from her bedroom to the basement and killed, and that is explained by him being told that's where his sister's body was found. He never mentioned strangulation and he mimicked a stabbing. I'm not buying his reaction as an indicator that he did it. The head blow possibly, but then again, why say it was a hammer?

Maybe it was a hammer, who knows? Whether he did it or not, that cocky little $?!@ know a lot more than he is telling and is just as guilty as the other two pieces of $?!@ as far as I'm concerned.


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[ThinkHard]

No official investigation has counted it as direct or useful circumstantial evidence regarding the killing afaik. It is just sick fantasy. jmo

It's really interesting to me what you choose to say is important and non important circumstantial evidence.

Feces smearing isn't normal at nine, like at all!!! It's not an experiment at that age, it's intentional, and it is a HUGE red flag that something is very very much not right with whatever was going on with Burke.....but you say oh this is nothing, it's inconsequential.....yet you think no one saying Patsy looked tired at 5pm on the 26th as strong and indisputable evidence that she clearly must have slept that night?

I assume you can recognize such a disjunction in thought, and therefor can only assume you are only here to troll and annoy people.

 

[BoldBear]

I'll bring it up again. The feces on the chocolate box is mentioned in FF. I haven't seen if those feces were found to belong to Burke. I also haven't seen anything about the quantity or the location.

"Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces."

Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (Kindle Location 4785). Ventus Publishing, llc. Kindle Edition.

I hate to say this because eew, but were the feces intentional or accidental? Could a child have inadvertently touched the feces and then the box? We all know that JB's underwear were stained with feces so she wasn't wiping very well. Kolar also wondered if the pajama bottoms smeared with the fecal material in JB's bathroom belonged to Burke. So was the smearing on the box intentional?

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm saying it is a sick fantasy if it is just plucked out of the air, as it were, with no basis for evidence to the killing.

How do you have a problem with that? Please explain.

And please, I don't need multiple posters ganging up on me. That is bullying.

How is it plucked out if this air?

JBR had signs of sexual abuse both past and present.

There was no intruder that night.

BR smeared feces.

BR shows apathy over his sisters murder.

BR becomes a suspect and we explore angles along those lines, using psychological accurate information as a point of reference.

That's not pulling something out of this air.

 

[andreww]

And btw, Burke lies just as well as his father. He told DP that he was approached by cops looking for an interview and that he told them "it wasn't a good time and that he had exams to study for. He said they never came back. The truth is that when Burke turned 21, detectives went to pay him a visit and he simply told them "call my lawyer" and walked away. These are facts in the public record and if Burke is willing to lie about those, why should we be expected to believe anything else that comes out of his mouth? Like father, like son.


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[Brendon]

The way I see it, everything in the house is circumstantial evidence. With a family denying responsibility events have to be pieced together, using logic, by what was in the house. If Burke was placing faeces in JonBenet's bedroom then it speaks of his relationship with JonBenet. If being the operative word.

Not only inside the house, but outside of it. What did the investigations find about BR's behavior at school. With other children? Was he violent then, sexually agressive like that girl in that video a few pages back. Now there is an example. Could not control or hide her behaviour. It was reported at school, by foster parents, guardians etc. His behavior at that time would be circumstantial evidence. Other than the housekeeper, was anything else reported like that? He caved in his sister's head, sexually assaulted her, wrote a ransom note, and strangled her. So there must have been telltale signs outside his house.

 

[dizzychick]

I have heard there is a " boiler room" in the basement, does this mean it is fired with wood? or gas? and if so can you toss something like a roll of duct tape and rope into it to burn up ?

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not a child psychartrist, but it is fairly odd behaviour to me. .........Oh, just checked. fecal smearing can occur if the child has some autism. Aspergers is very related to autism. Like a high functioning version. And I'm a layman expert on that. And if BR isn't an aspy, I'll eat my hat. They come in all shapes and sizes. But I'm pretty sure he is on the spectrum. Plays video games. Works at computers. Socially awkward. And if you look at his movements during the interviews, physically awkward. They sprout walk. Can't read people. Ask me anything. Never heard of fecal smearing though. He would be happy to be left alone.

That woman on that special, when I saw her light up and try to explain what and why, when she was looking at the BR interview, I could not believe how ignorant she was. I could pick his every move. Why he did what he did, and his jerky physical movements, and the way he arranged his body. But then again, I've had years and years experience. And I knew exactly why he was looking intently at the bowl. And I know why he smiles, even though it is at what others judge at inappropriate times. I know why his parents were so protective of him.

Poor Burke.

For one you do not know what Burke or his parents were thinking. You can have a guess and an opinion, but to state you know, is another thing entirely.

Secondly fecal smearing in ASD is very different then fecal smearing when it occurs for other reason. ASD associated fecal smearing is due to sensory processing issues. sensory processing issues that cause sensory avoidance issues would be kids that had loud noises, or buzzing lights, or too scratchy materials on their skin. sensory seekers on the other hand are the types to bang their head on the wall or floor, make weird vocal noises, and yes play with feces like some play with fingerprint or playdaough.

That is quite different however then smearing feces out of stress or anger, and it's quite different then directing at another persons space or belongs. Similar action, completely different motive.

Regarding Burke and ASD, I agree he shows mannerisms consistent with someone on the spectrum, and him having ASD is certainly not out of the question....however he displays issues and mannerism far outside the scope of just ASD as well, and even if he has ASD, this is unlikely to be the aspect of illness that caused him to act out in sexually. aggressive manners.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
By four years of age, most children are toilet trained for bowel movements. After that age, when inappropriate bowel movements occur regularly over a period of several months, a child may be diagnosed with encopresis. Encopresis can be intentional or unintentional. Intentional soiling is associated with several psychiatric disorders. Involuntary or unintentional soiling is often the result of constipation.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresis.html


So if the smearing etc. was intentional it is associated with several psychiatric disorders.

 

[Karinna]

A FYI if an older child is smearing or playing around with their poop it could be Reactive Attachment Disorder, or it could be a defense mechanism to ward off anyone they might feel threatened by. Fecal incontinence can also be a sign of sexual abuse. An older child definitely needs help/therapy if engaging in that type of behaviour.

 

[Brendon]

For one you do not know what Burke or his parents were thinking. You can have a guess and an opinion, but to state you know, is another thing entirely.

Secondly fecal smearing in ASD is very different then fecal smearing when it occurs for other reason. ASD associated fecal smearing is due to sensory processing issues. sensory processing issues that cause sensory avoidance issues would be kids that had loud noises, or buzzing lights, or too scratchy materials on their skin. sensory seekers on the other hand are the types to bang their head on the wall or floor, make weird vocal noises, and yes play with feces like some play with fingerprint or playdaough.

That is quite different however then smearing feces out of stress or anger, and it's quite different then directing at another persons space or belongs. Similar action, completely different motive.

Regarding Burke and ASD, I agree he shows mannerisms consistent with someone on the spectrum, and him having ASD is certainly not out of the question....however he displays issues and mannerism far outside the scope of just ASD as well, and even if he has ASD, this is unlikely to be the aspect of illness that caused him to act out in sexually. aggressive manners.

You don't know that he acted out in any sexually aggressive manner. That is just what you think happened.

 

[Brendon]

Children/people with aspergers may smile a lot like a deaf person pretends he heard what you said and says "Oh...ah....yes." And it becomes a default facial response. Like the deaf person I described, it's a bit of a people pleasing-trick, because they really aren't too sure what is going on in their interaction with the other person. "Things" are good. Video games are good because they are easy to master with a single minded focussed way of thinking. People are much much more complicated and they cannot sense what is going on with people. So they tend to retreat a little. Their eye contact is poor and if you show them a pics of faces with different expression, they will get the simple straightforward ones (sad, anger, laughter), but they would struggle with "reflective" or something like that. They can seem to lack empathy, but its often because that they aren't sure what is going on. They often have a terrible diet, because their digestive system is known not to work so well (constipation, toilet training probs?). They are very bright, and they like it when there is a problem that can be solved that suits their mentality. When I saw Burke get animated at that picture of the bowl, I could see a child keen to please the adult. He wanted to tell the adult what was in the bowl. I don't exactly remember the words, but I think the interviewer told him what it was, and he looked momentarily despondent like he failed to impress the adult there. I saw moments of the DP interview, not much. The smile was often plastered on like a learned response. He would have been very very nervous and the smile is a defense mechanism as I said before. And yes, it is easy to tell that this is what Burke is.

 

[Brendon]

A FYI if an older child is smearing or playing around with their poop it could be Reactive Attachment Disorder, or it could be a defense mechanism to ward off anyone they might feel threatened by. Fecal incontinence can also be a sign of sexual abuse. An older child definitely needs help/therapy if engaging in that type of behaviour.

Well, if is holding down a job and living among us, he must have got over it by now.

 

[Sparko96]

You don't know that he acted out in any sexually aggressive manner. That is just what you think happened.

Then lay out who did on a Burke didn't do it thread.


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[Karinna]

Well, if is holding down a job and living among us, he must have got over it by now.

He works from home doesn't he? But yeah i think he must be okay by now. Maybe he got therapy?

 

[Ambitioned]

It's really interesting to me what you choose to say is important and non important circumstantial evidence.

Feces smearing isn't normal at nine, like at all!!! It's not an experiment at that age, it's intentional, and it is a HUGE red flag that something is very very much not right with whatever was going on with Burke.....but you say oh this is nothing, it's inconsequential.....yet you think no one saying Patsy looked tired at 5pm on the 26th as strong and indisputable evidence that she clearly must have slept that night?

A huge red flag yes, along with the softball or grapefruit size feces deposited in JB's bed.

People here are forgetting that Kolar had access to 60,000 pieces of evidence which we are not privvy to. And it's not like it was plucked out of thin air. The evidence included interviews, forensic reports, grand-jury records, crime-scene photos and video.

So there's no need for some people to throw fits or bawl like a baby just because they're not privvy to the evidence. He presented it to Lacy the fruitcake who said she didn't want to pursue it and harm her relationship with the Ramseys.

 

[dizzychick]

A huge red flag yes, along with the softball or grapefruit size feces deposited in JB's bed.

People here are forgetting that Kolar had access to 60,000 pieces of evidence which we are not privvy to. And it's not like it was plucked out of thin air. The evidence included interviews, forensic reports, grand-jury records, crime-scene photos and video.

So there's no need for some people to throw fits or bawl like a baby just because they're not privvy to the evidence. He presented it to Lacy the fruitcake who said she didn't want to pursue it and harm her relationship with the Ramseys.

what happened to Lou Smit ? Why did he loose his duty to be objective and even pray with the Ramseys about this case ? If any of the investigators come up with a suspect I will want to know how they knew Ramsey's bonus was 118K and its this piece of evidence that points directly to an inside job. I think the cops had this one right, btw

 

[ThinkHard]

Not only inside the house, but outside of it. What did the investigations find about BR's behavior at school. With other children? Was he violent then, sexually agressive like that girl in that video a few pages back. Now there is an example. Could not control or hide her behaviour. It was reported at school, by foster parents, guardians etc. His behavior at that time would be circumstantial evidence. Other than the housekeeper, was anything else reported like that? He caved in his sister's head, sexually assaulted her, wrote a ransom note, and strangled her. So there must have been telltale signs outside his house.

And I'm sure there were. His teacher testified at the GJ hearings that led to the indictment.

 

[Brendon]

Then lay out who did on a Burke didn't do it thread.


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There isn't enough evidence to lay out who did it.jmo

 

[Brendon]

And I'm sure there were. His teacher testified at the GJ hearings that led to the indictment.

You are sure? What did his teacher say at the the GJ that makes you sure.