The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[ThinkHard]

You don't know that he acted out in any sexually aggressive manner. That is just what you think happened.

Right, which is why it is stated as such, it is speculation based on what we do know about him, combined with learned knowledge, and experience. I have never claimed "I know" what he had or was engaging in.

What we do KNOW is that someone in that house DID act in a sexually aggressive manner to JBR.....and what we observe is that BR fits the profile to someone who COULD do that, most closely.

 

[Ambitioned]

Children/people with aspergers may smile a lot like a deaf person pretends he heard what you said and says "Oh...ah....yes." And it becomes a default facial response. Like the deaf person I described, it's a bit of a people pleasing-trick, because they really aren't too sure what is going on in their interaction with the other person. "Things" are good. Video games are good because they are easy to master with a single minded focussed way of thinking. People are much much more complicated and they cannot sense what is going on with people. So they tend to retreat a little. Their eye contact is poor and if you show them a pics of faces with different expression, they will get the simple straightforward ones (sad, anger, laughter), but they would struggle with "reflective" or something like that. They can seem to lack empathy, but its often because that they aren't sure what is going on. They often have a terrible diet, because their digestive system is known not to work so well (constipation, toilet training probs?). They are very bright, and they like it when there is a problem that can be solved that suits their mentality. When I saw Burke get animated at that picture of the bowl, I could see a child keen to please the adult. He wanted to tell the adult what was in the bowl. I don't exactly remember the words, but I think the interviewer told him what it was, and he looked momentarily despondent like he failed to impress the adult there. I saw moments of the DP interview, not much. The smile was often plastered on like a learned response. He would have been very very nervous and the smile is a defense mechanism as I said before. And yes, it is easy to tell that this is what Burke is.

Not all deaf people are the same though. There's the militant big-D Deaf culture who sign and refuse to interact with the hearing world. There's the small- d deaf people who wear hearing aids and use total communication. There's also deaf people who have cochlear implants and they listen and speak and interact with the hearing world.

In the same vein not all people who act giddy and smile have Aspergers even though some are desperate to be a self appointed psychiatrist and slap a label on Burke. "Oh look he's an aspie!" "Oh look he's on the spectrum." "Oh look at that, he has high functioning autism!" He could very well have SBP or other behavior or attachment disorders. We just don't know. We weren't there to review his medical records ot listen to his grand jury testimony or the testimony from his doctors. All we know is that JB had prior sexual trauma, Burke had scatological behaviors, he hit JB with a golf club before, Dr. Bernhard was concerned, the grandparents were concerned enough to buy books, and so on. The grand jury evidently saw enough to hand out indictments to the parents for permitting JB to be placed in a situation which posed a threat to her life or health.

 

[RL2]

I have a hard time imagining either JR or PR blaming themselves for anything.

I definitely cannot see PR ever letting anything destroy her self-image and projection of perfection..

 

[Karinna]

what happened to Lou Smit ? Why did he loose his duty to be objective and even pray with the Ramseys about this case ? If any of the investigators come up with a suspect I will want to know how they knew Ramsey's bonus was 118K and its this piece of evidence that points directly to an inside job. I think the cops had this one right, btw

I have also read that the 118 could of also related to Psalm 118: 27b. Did PR have MPD? I really don't think she was right in the head, JMO.

 

[dizzychick]

Perhaps no one harmed Burke. Perhaps Burke was just ill, and gravely misunderstood. And it was the perfect storm.

I really think he could have done it all.

If he did it all so much of the oddities and disjunctions, and deceitfulness, and half truths, all of a sudden make so much sense.

Having a child like that is hard, you blame yourself; your genes, your nuture, your fault. So it makes sense the parents would be shocked and confused and grief stricken and also feeling the need to hide things all at the same time.

I think they felt like failures as parents, because if people knew what he did, even if Burke wasn't being abused himself, everyone would think otherwise

I could buy that Burke did all the physical harm to JB but not the note, no matter how evil, clever or sophiscated he could have been, no 9 year old uses the word " attache" or probably knows what the sum of his dad's bonus money was. No he had help if this is what happened.

 

[ThinkHard]

Children/people with aspergers may smile a lot like a deaf person pretends he heard what you said and says "Oh...ah....yes." And it becomes a default facial response. Like the deaf person I described, it's a bit of a people pleasing-trick, because they really aren't too sure what is going on in their interaction with the other person. "Things" are good. Video games are good because they are easy to master with a single minded focussed way of thinking. People are much much more complicated and they cannot sense what is going on with people. So they tend to retreat a little. Their eye contact is poor and if you show them a pics of faces with different expression, they will get the simple straightforward ones (sad, anger, laughter), but they would struggle with "reflective" or something like that. They can seem to lack empathy, but its often because that they aren't sure what is going on. They often have a terrible diet, because their digestive system is known not to work so well (constipation, toilet training probs?). They are very bright, and they like it when there is a problem that can be solved that suits their mentality. When I saw Burke get animated at that picture of the bowl, I could see a child keen to please the adult. He wanted to tell the adult what was in the bowl. I don't exactly remember the words, but I think the interviewer told him what it was, and he looked momentarily despondent like he failed to impress the adult there. I saw moments of the DP interview, not much. The smile was often plastered on like a learned response. He would have been very very nervous and the smile is a defense mechanism as I said before. And yes, it is easy to tell that this is what Burke is.

Yes Burkes displays a lack of social awareness, this is clear. But there are more conditions that this goes along with besides just autism. And autism even if he does have it, can often exist in the presence of other psychiatric or behavior disorders as well. Dual diagnosis are very very common.

You cannot, nor can anyone conclusively say he has this or he has that by just glimpses at him, hours more observation would need to be logged for even a professionally trained diagnostician to make that conclusion.

And while I will not claim to be a professional, I do hold a degree in psychology with a focus on brain and behavior during child development, am a trained educator, have worked with children for over half my life, have a home library that could rival the child development section at any book store, and have learned an enormous amount by finding myself in extraudinary circumstances while holding relatively common jobs. I also happen to have aspergers myself.

 

[Ambitioned]

I could buy that Burke did all the physical harm to JB but not the note, no matter how evil, clever or sophiscated he could have been, no 9 year old uses the word " attache" or probably knows what the sum of his dad's bonus money was. No he had help if this is what happened.

Agreed. A 9 year old is not going to say maternal things such as, "Be well rested!"

 

[Karinna]

I could buy that Burke did all the physical harm to JB but not the note, no matter how evil, clever or sophiscated he could have been, no 9 year old uses the word " attache" or probably knows what the sum of his dad's bonus money was. No he had help if this is what happened.

I agree BR definitely didn't write the RN. And i think it was pretty much proven it was PR by the handwriting experts.

 

[Sparko96]

When a family murders a child, conditions and psychological tendencies within the home have to be thoroughly explored. I think the toxicity amongst the three suspects pretty high; but Burke was prone to acting aggressively and without empathy. The Flashlight probably meant he was skulking about. He acted out of a rage as old as Cane and Abel.


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[dizzychick]

The most likely suspects are always the people who had acces to time alone with Burke. The "usual suspects" in no particular order would be; teachers, coaches, clergy, anyone who worked in the home regularly, immediate family, extended family, family friends.

In this case, ultimately either his father, or an extended family member would be my guess. It's possible JAR did it to him also, but in that case, someone would have done it to JAR or unless JaR had age innapropriate issues in that regard, but to my knowledge we have heard no such thing. If JAR did know that Butke was ill and/or bring molestated....his forgiveness statement would make a lot of sense. Perhaps he understood what drove Burke more then anyone.

I wonder if when Burke started acting out, they would punish him, and keep JBR closet. Dotting on her, giving her more attention, all in an attempt to make up for the abuse she suffered at the hands of her brother. Much like parents often over compensate to keep their children happy during a divorce.

The problem was Burke was likely acting out for attention in large part. He saw the attention once focused only on him, get taken away and directed at JBR. He acts out, because he lacks strong expressive language skills. But when he does it back fires, and JBR just gets more attention....he doesn't get why, and gets more frustrated, and he still can't expressive so he acts out. I think the animosity was building for a while, and I think the parents efforts to "comfort" JBR after such incidents may have added to his increased rage.

In his head he might have truly thought he could just get rid of her, and it would all get back to normal.

chilling and plausible

 

[Brendon]

Agreed. A 9 year old is not going to say maternal things such as, "Be well rested!"

If he is going to wipe the murder weapon (torch) and wipe the batteries inside, and wears gloves when he sexually assaults his dying sister, all to cover himself and outwit the authorities, is it such a leap to think he wrote the letter too. I think ThinkHard is onto something.

 

[Heymom]

Does anyone know who was looking after Burke and Fleet Junior at the White's house that day, 26th Dec?

Chief Kolar mentions that the Whites had family members staying with them over the holidays, but I don't believe it was ever stated who, if anyone, was overseeing the boys.

 

[ThinkHard]

You are sure? What did his teacher say at the the GJ that makes you sure.

As you well know we aren't privy to that information. But just because we aren't privy to it doesn't mean it does t exist. Keep in mind the people who did hear that info felt it string enough to indict.

We do know his teacher testified. That's a fact. What she said is speculation.

What I guess however is that if Burke did have issues, a teacher would have witnessed some evidence of this at least to some degree. Though I'm sure he was likely more controlled in the classroom then at home.

 

[Karinna]

When a family murders a child, conditions and psychological tendencies within the home have to be thoroughly explored. I think the toxicity amongst the three suspects pretty high; but Burke was prone to acting aggressively and without empathy. The Flashlight probably meant he was skulking about. He acted out of a rage as old as Cane and Abel.



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I think the R's housekeeper LHP stated she thought PR did it. What kind of mother parades a 6 yr. old child out to look like a mini adult seductress to the world? What was her hang up with not letting her little girl be just a little girl? IMO it's sick.

 

[ThinkHard]

I could buy that Burke did all the physical harm to JB but not the note, no matter how evil, clever or sophiscated he could have been, no 9 year old uses the word " attache" or probably knows what the sum of his dad's bonus money was. No he had help if this is what happened.

You'd be surprised it's possible to have an incredible gift at remembering words and speech you over hear from other people and then using the words later when you see fit. I know 3 years olds that use the words coincidence and non-negotiable.....so I'm pretty sure a 9 yr old can handle the vocabulary in that note.

 

[Brendon]

You'd be surprised it's possible to have an incredible gift at remembering words and speech you over hear from other people and then using the words later when you see fit. I know 3 years olds that use the words coincidence and non-negotiable.....so I'm pretty sure a 9 yr old can handle the vocabulary in that note.

I'm pretty sure you are right. There is nothing in that note BR would not know. The bonus, the comments about his parents. And of course, it would explain why his parents had no clue what happened to their daughter. BR also most probably manipulated his parents into sending him off so he wouldn't have to talk to the police. He may have even tried to forge his mother's handwriting to put the blame on her, but couldn't get it right. That is why it looks a little like her handwriting but not enough. Yeah.

 

[Karinna]

You'd be surprised it's possible to have an incredible gift at remembering words and speech you over hear from other people and then using the words later when you see fit. I know 3 years olds that use the words coincidence and non-negotiable.....so I'm pretty sure a 9 yr old can handle the vocabulary in that note.

Yeah maybe that, but not when the handwriting wasn't BR's.

 

[Karinna]

And from their deduction on the CBS series the investigators agreed the RN had maternal overtones. Something a woman would write.

 

[ThinkHard]

Agreed. A 9 year old is not going to say maternal things such as, "Be well rested!"

They would if they are trying to mimick what they "think" an adult would sound like. Particularly if they were phrases that were common to theadultsin their life they observed most regularly.

 

[Brendon]

Yeah maybe that, but not when the handwriting wasn't BR's.

He wouldn't be the first murderer that forged a letter. Anyone clever enough to do everything he did not to get caught could have done it. BR obviously spent weeks planning this.