The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Sphinx]

One theory is they thought she was dead and didn't realize they were actually strangling her while staging the coverup.

I tend to think Burke used the garrote and that's one of the reasons WHY they needed to cover it up.

I would like to know what video games Burke kept playing. I suspect some, if not all of them were violent, with lots of action. Do any of them show murder ? probably. Do any of them show hitting someone over the back of the head, then doing something else to them, like robbery, or rape ?

I know someone with an autistic boy, age 12. He is fixated on videos, and video games. That is his world, and he often acts out what he plays in those games.



IMO

 

[PositiveLight]

The RN is what kills all possibility of an intruder IMO

Agreed!

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[PositiveLight]

One possible explanation could be from transfer. If the fibers from her sweater had been the type to easily stick to Burkes top, and she had given him a hug before bed or what not, and fibers from her sweater transferred to Burkes.....and Burke carried out the crime wearing the shirt his mom hugged him in....then the fibers from her sweater could transfer off Burkes to these various areas as he carried out the crime scene.

Just thinking about sweaters is making me itch. This is a good theory!

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[PositiveLight]

She looks stressed Christmas morning, at least to me, she's smiling, but it's tight, and her eyes look tired, she just looks like someone with a lot going on......but it was the holidays so that can stress a lot if people out on its own ....View attachment 102187

She looks like she had been crying. It's sad to see that necklace JBR is wearing knowing that in less than 24 hours it would be twisted up in that garrote.

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[Sphinx]

Not to mention that Dr. Phil specifically stated in his question and answer episode that BR did NOT have aspergers or any other issue. He said he was "nervous". In my opinion he was nervous that he was about to be asked questions that he was going to be put on the spot to answer. Questions he probably knew he would have to lie about. That people would see through his facade. My own opinion but Dr. Phil did say he didn't have any issues on the spectrum. He stated this because everyone was speculating that he did have spectrum issues. As much as I did not like how Dr. Phil came out and completely defended the Ramsey's, that little nugget of that episode spoke volumes to me. So, if we are to believe Dr. Phil, BR didn't have any diagnosed spectrum issues. So that in my opinion, points more towards deviant behavior. I feel that others did notice issues. One of the reasons I think that he may not have showed feces smearing outside of the home was that he mainly did it directly towards JBR. That was his target. The housekeeper stated she did catch them naked playing doctor and they told her to leave them alone. I believe the ones who Ramsey's kept close knew a lot of Burkes behaviors and they wanted the lid to be kept closed on that.
James Kolar was privy to all of the case documents and evidence. So I do trust that he saw things that we haven't. Such as the scatological evidence.
Laura Richards the lady in the CBS documentary that Brandon referred to is a behavioral analyst. She is trained to look at people's behavior and body positioning.
(I just put everything in one comment here before I forget what I wanted to respond to. Haha still ten pages behind on my phone at the moment so this all could have been already pointed out.)

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Was the housekeeper interviewed for the CBS show ? Maybe she was cut out in the missing 2 hours. I wonder if she were bought off by the Ramseys when the murder happened. She would know a great deal about what was really going on in that family, and I bet much of it was disturbing, but she likely kept quiet because she needed the job.

IMO

 

[PositiveLight]

I'd love to watch those two cut hours for sure!

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[Heymom]

Well. Money talks in this case. They were told to handle them with kid gloves. Had I been first on the scene and been handed that ransom note with the not so subtle threats in it... my first reaction would be to question why the hell they called the police and friends over so easily. That was what sinks their ship in my opinion. That's when I would have hauled their butts to the station and crime scene taped the whole block off. JMOO. They were allowed way too much leeway. IIRC someone on one of the threads, forgive me for not remembering who, said that Patsy's sister was provided police attire to go to the house and gather a bunch of items. They gave her the clothes to keep media from being too curious. But supposedly she hauled a lot that day and it wasnt checked. So no telling what was removed from the scene. I also like the boiler idea. That is an interesting theory. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary if it was in fact on considering the time of year
Would be a great way to dispose of evidence.

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Yes, that is true, about Pam Paugh going back into the house 2 days after the murder, to ostensibly fetch items for the funeral, and bringing out a car trunkload of stuff. We always thought she'd been given pretty much carte blanche but I read here that she was not allowed into the basement so she never could fetch back John's golf clubs. Many people on FFJ thought that perhaps one of John's or Burke's golf clubs could have been the murder weapon, or that some of the evidence had been stashed in the golf bag. But I think they would try to get the evidence out if possible, that day, and they were successful because they were allowed to leave the scene and go to their friends' house without going to the police station at all. Colossal screw-up by the BPD. JR and PR were taking a huge risk - if they were smuggling evidence out and BPD took them into custody, they'd have been sunk for sure.

 

[Sparko96]

Just catching up.....but as I do I wanted to throw out this thought I had today.

Some people have speculated that it must have been Patsy because of the monologue she performed, and It being her favorite and the bits about the pineapple....etc. and summarized that this was an indication of it all being her.

BUT IF this book was a favored would this have been something that she would have introduced her children to? Would her children have been read this book? Would they have been familiar with the plot and details?

If you combine that with it also being tied to pageantry stuff, and possibly jealously over extra attention due to pageantry stuff.....then perhaps Burke could have associated that monologue and story with things he most hated.....I dunno just a thought.


Btw this also made me wonder if perhaps Burke ever tried to insert himself in the pageant stuff, I know sometimes little boys, even those who grow up cis-gender sometimes want to wear their sisters clothes. Which made me think for some reason of the pageantry stuff starting after she went through treatment for ovarian cancer, and I though oy vey, Frued would have had a field day with this one......anyway....sorry for that tangent at the end.

Yes. She would have used phrasing and words frequently that would be picked up by the family.


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[Advocate4]

Going back to Dr Phil's interview with Burke. IIRC, DP said that when JBR was hit on the head, it would have made a loud noise, and I think he asked if Burke thought he would have heard that -- and Burke answered "Probably."

I haven't reviewed the episode to see if my recall is correct, but did DP then ask Burke "DID you hear anything?" or did DP just let the matter go at that?

Also, I'm not personally convinced it would have made a loud noise, but I don't know.

 

[Sparko96]

Brendon, you have been blatantly trolling this thread for pages now. Considering you have espoused an unwavering IDI viewpoint since you started posting in this thread, this and all of your other recent responses to posters are obviously 100% sarcastic because you believe what the posters are saying is preposterous. If you feel that way, fine, there are a lot of things being suggested that I find unlikely as well. But your sarcastic remarks add nothing constructive to the conversation. In fact, they seem to intentionally muddle an already complicated discussion where people are trying to ask questions and learn the facts of the case. For example, you know what you posted above was not true. You do not think the housekeeper said any such thing (because to my knowledge, she didn't) and you can remember how many times we know Burke hit JB with a golf club (once) and knowing your posting history I severely doubt you speculate "it was often." So are you trying to confuse people? Creating your own strawman BDI arguments to support your own anti-BDI position? What's your agenda here?

And frankly, you come off as very rude doing this. At least before you were explaining to people why you disagreed with them. You misrepresenting your opinions to people, I guess because you think it's funny, doesn't help anyone or anything and shows a mean-spirited lack of respect to the people you are debating.

My sentiments exactly. Creeps me out too.


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[DrollForeignFaction]

Was the housekeeper interviewed for the CBS show ? Maybe she was cut out in the missing 2 hours. I wonder if she were bought off by the Ramseys when the murder happened. She would know a great deal about what was really going on in that family, and I bet much of it was disturbing, but she likely kept quiet because she needed the job.
IMO

The housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh, was Patsy's first "patsy" (aka the first person Patsy brought up as a suspect the very morning that JB went "missing") and her life was turned upside down by the case, not just because a little girl she cared about was brutally killed but because her entire family was put under the microscope by police and internet detectives alike. And despite initially telling police she couldn't imagine Patsy doing this to her child, she later publicly announced that she believed Patsy was responsible. Who wouldn't after the treatment she got from Patsy? She did have intriguing information to share and she talked to the police a few times as well as Schiller, the author of Perfect Murder, Perfect Town - who hired her to be his maid. She also talked to the press earlier in the case but she hasn't spoken out since the very early 2000s at the latest. She testified in front of the GJ and went to court to get permission to write a tell-all book but was barred from doing so. So she definitely did not keep quiet to protect the Ramseys and her job - in fact, after JB's murder, she never worked for Patsy again. Like so many of the Ramsey's patsys and ex-friends, she was cut off.

Here's a little more background on LHP: http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-hoffmann-pugh.htm
And here's an interesting article about her GJ testimony: http://www.rense.com/general11/benet.htm

As to whether she was cut out of the CBS doc, that's an interesting question. I would love to see it if she was. They did bring back the gardener, I was surprised he popped up again! My guess is she's keeping quiet at this point. But there was just another crockumentary I haven't seen yet, I think on HLN, that was promoting her and Santa as old "new" suspects so maybe she'll say something about that. I'd also be interested to hear what her daughter (who was about 13-14 when it happened, knew JB and was with her at the Dec. 23rd Xmas party, and unfortunately was also victimized by rumors and innuendo in the aftermath of the crime) has to say.

 

[ThinkHard]

Going back to Dr Phil's interview with Burke. IIRC, DP said that when JBR was hit on the head, it would have made a loud noise, and I think he asked if Burke thought he would have heard that -- and Burke answered "Probably."

I haven't reviewed the episode to see if my recall is correct, but did DP then ask Burke "DID you hear anything?" or did DP just let the matter go at that?

Also, I'm not personally convinced it would have made a loud noise, but I don't know.

Interesting. You know how if you have ever broken a bone, or been very near someone when they have, there is a distinct sound, as in a diffinitive crack. I'd imagine a skull cracking has a distinct sound as well. Before experiencing this first hand, I'm not sure I ever would of associated a broken bone with a sound.

It seems to me that One of the onmy reasons one would associate being hit over the head with a sound, is perhaps if they had experienced it first hand.

 

[PositiveLight]

Going back to Dr Phil's interview with Burke. IIRC, DP said that when JBR was hit on the head, it would have made a loud noise, and I think he asked if Burke thought he would have heard that -- and Burke answered "Probably."

I haven't reviewed the episode to see if my recall is correct, but did DP then ask Burke "DID you hear anything?" or did DP just let the matter go at that?

Also, I'm not personally convinced it would have made a loud noise, but I don't know.

I don't think it would have honestly. Hitting someone's head vs. hitting a wall or door is so different. I can see hitting a wall or door making a loud noise, but not the hit over the head. MOO

 

[PositiveLight]

Does any of the long time sleuths know if Patsy ever actually did journalism? I'm probably dating myself here but the reason I ask is this: Does anyone remember the daycare/satanic cult hysteria during the 80's and 90's? https://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2008/06/day-care-sex-abuse-hysteria.html
I would be curious to know if she ever did columns or work in a journalistic fashion with these cases. I remember it being a nationwide scare but each state had their own stories. Georgia had their own scares too. I wonder if this in someway fed her idea of how to stage the crime. There were some outlandish claims back then too. Kids were telling crazy tales after being "interviewed" by psychologists. Seeds were being planted in the kids minds basically. When Burke made the statement on Dr. Phil about his mind being erased, it made me rethink this theory from so long ago. I'm just throwing it out there. Not saying this is what happened at all. BUT it was an ongoing situation during that time. Maybe they thought people would believe their crazy story too.

 

[FrankieB]

In that christmas picture it has always struck me Patsy is holding Jonbenét's arm really tight.

The cat is not a toy. There is another picture where Burke is holding him and the cat is looking up at him with a funny expression. Has it ever been stated what the cat was called?

 

[PositiveLight]

In that christmas picture it has always struck me Patsy is holding Jonbenét's arm really tight.

The cat is not a toy. There is another picture where Burke is holding him and the cat is looking up at him with a funny expression. Has it ever been stated what the cat was called?

I noticed the strong grip on her arm too.

 

[BBB167893]

Does any of the long time sleuths know if Patsy ever actually did journalism? I'm probably dating myself here but the reason I ask is this: Does anyone remember the daycare/satanic cult hysteria during the 80's and 90's? https://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2008/06/day-care-sex-abuse-hysteria.html
I would be curious to know if she ever did columns or work in a journalistic fashion with these cases. I remember it being a nationwide scare but each state had their own stories. Georgia had their own scares too. I wonder if this in someway fed her idea of how to stage the crime. There were some outlandish claims back then too. Kids were telling crazy tales after being "interviewed" by psychologists. Seeds were being planted in the kids minds basically. When Burke made the statement on Dr. Phil about his mind being erased, it made me rethink this theory from so long ago. I'm just throwing it out there. Not saying this is what happened at all. BUT it was an ongoing situation during that time. Maybe they thought people would believe their crazy story too.

Jeff Shapiro had some thoughts on that:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective.html

 

[BBB167893]

I noticed the strong grip on her arm too.

A lot of people have noticed it, myself included.

 

[CoreyRocks]

She looks stressed Christmas morning, at least to me, she's smiling, but it's tight, and her eyes look tired, she just looks like someone with a lot going on......but it was the holidays so that can stress a lot if people out on its own ....View attachment 102187

I just noticed in this photo that PR looks like she may have been crying. Her nose is red and her cheeks especially her right one.

Also what is that dangling over Jonbenet ' s left shoulder? It doesn't look like her hair. It appears to be orange and shiny with black, especially at the tip.

????

 

[BBB167893]

I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, She had been in bed sleeping before he kidnaped and left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

The Danielle Van Dam case IS a good one to compare to this case, in that it shows the difference between REAL kidnappers and the fictional intruder. Different as night and day.

And as for someone copying Patsy's writing, no way. They'd need a LOT more practice than just a few hours to get it THAT good. Moreover, it had all of her "touches," like punctutation, phrasing, etc. I might believe that a different person had one or two of those in common, but not all of them.