The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

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Actually I think the intruder theory is more crazy in this situation. Danielle I think was taken and smart was taken quickly. They did not stick around for 8+ hours. (That's if he was in the home before they got home). Also both victims were removed from their homes. Neither was found inside their home dead, with a ransom note. Nor had they been fed food from the home. JMOO but the intruder theory just doesn't make sense in this case. Yes there are kids that are kidnapped from their homes while family are asleep inside. But none have also been tortured and killed in their home. Granted, that house was massive but I don't think an intruder could get comfortable in the house that size and find the items he found to use during the crime. Are we to believe he also took the favorite blanket out of the dryer and wrapped her up in it also? And if an intruder did break in to the home, he would've known if the security system was working and would likely use a dang door to leave with her instead of a small weirdly angled window. It's just too bizarre in this situation to even think it's decent theory.

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The RN is what kills all possibility of an intruder IMO
 
(quote)
Fiber Evidence. Fibers matched to the red sweater Patsy was wearing that night were found in places key to the crime: the paintbrush caddy she kept her art supplies in, the blanket used to wrap JonBenet's body, on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth, and tied into both knots of the ligature used to strangle JonBenet. Patsy denies she ever went near these places wearing that sweater. In the interviews with Boulder prosecutors in August, 2000, prosecutor Bruce Levin summed up the evidence: MR. LEVIN: "I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682497/Patsy Ramsey

One possible explanation could be from transfer. If the fibers from her sweater had been the type to easily stick to Burkes top, and she had given him a hug before bed or what not, and fibers from her sweater transferred to Burkes.....and Burke carried out the crime wearing the shirt his mom hugged him in....then the fibers from her sweater could transfer off Burkes to these various areas as he carried out the crime scene.
 
Does anyone know if they were allowed to take an overnight bag with them and if so was it checked?

I'm guessing that evidence went out in PR's purse. I'm sure no one checked them at that point. Or maybe JR was disposing of them during that time he was missing.
 
RSBM

Yes, I think it was a toggle knot rather than a garrote (which has two handles). It was probably found already in the basement as a way to secure the large boxes for the trees.

Google "toggle knot" or "toggle rope" to see many, many examples and the uses for them.

eye%20splice%20and%20toggle.jpg


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That is not what the garrot looked like at all, and those are not the same kind of knots. In your picture those are an example of splicing line back onto itself. In the Ramsey garrote they are hitch knots. But in a series of them, her is an example of a clove and half hitch.

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg


And here is splicing

image.jpg
 
maybe he wrote a note and they re-wrote it to look like an adult had done it. We will never know IMo aint no way Burke will tell. maybe he will confide in someone one day but I highly doubt it, one thing I think he does do is read and maybe even post here !

Does Burke's middle name start with "B?"

:tantrum::tantrum::tantrum:
 
Wasn't commonly called a "briefcase" in my house growing up. and I'm pretty darn "common" [emoji41]


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Grew up in FL and it was called a briefcase. Never heard the word attaché until I was grown.
 
It's not the vocabulary that convinces me Burke didn't write it. There's zero evidence Burke was a prolific writer. Any kid that would write a three page piece of fiction would have written previously.


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I disagree with you on that. If certain kids are on a mission, or a project of interest to them, they can be capable of things you will never see evidence of in the classroom. The type of kid who could pull off that note, is also the type of kid who would have hated and struggled in school.
 
If BR really did this and the parents covered it up how in the heck could PR spend her short days left on this earth not hating her son for killing her precious baby girl and even to be able to look at him with love and affection for ruining so many lives including theirs? I'm not going to convict him without being in a court of law, hearing and seeing all the evidence. I am not 100% convinced he's guilty no matter what everyone here thinks. The ransom letter is the only thing I'm really struggling with that as it could point to a coverup or maybe not but there's always a first for something even though all others ransom notes have been short. Yes, Burke is an odd guy but that's not enough for a television show to convince me of guilt. Lee, Scheck and Spitz were probably paid by network to make BR look guilty. They have been paid by defense numerous times in high profile cases to save murderers by creating reasonable doubt such as in OJ and Spector trials. We all know OJ was guilty. More DNA evidence then any case in history.
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Easy!!!! Because she blamed herself for him being the way he was. She couldn't hate him, because in her head he was broken and she had broken him.

by hating him, by admitting she was angry with him, she would have to face her own anger, resentment, and disappointment in herself.

So instead of facing life head on, she deflected and focused on "saving" her one remaining child. She felt she had failed both of them up to that one point, but if she could save Burke from the big bad world that would eat him alive and call him a child monster and fix him and make him well, then maybe she could become a good mom after all.

In other words she couldn't hate Burke, because she couldn't face hating herself.

At least that's the way I see it.
 
One possible explanation could be from transfer. If the fibers from her sweater had been the type to easily stick to Burkes top, and she had given him a hug before bed or what not, and fibers from her sweater transferred to Burkes.....and Burke carried out the crime wearing the shirt his mom hugged him in....then the fibers from her sweater could transfer off Burkes to these various areas as he carried out the crime scene.

and same goes for that unnamed male whose DNA was on JB's panties and PJ's. She could have picked that up anywhere or transfered from some other location, I dont believe alot of this DNA baloney
 
Easy!!!! Because she blamed herself for him being the way he was. She couldn't hate him, because in her head he was broken and she had broken him.

by hating him, by admitting she was angry with him, she would have to face her own anger, resentment, and disappointment in herself.

So instead of facing life head on, she deflected and focused on "saving" her one remaining child. She felt she had failed both of them up to that one point, but if she could save Burke from the big bad world that would eat him alive and call him a child monster and fix him and make him well, then maybe she could become a good mom after all.

In other words she couldn't hate Burke, because she couldn't face hating herself.

At least that's the way I see it.

and don't forget this is the " perfect family" in their perfect house with their perfect kids, this IMO is why they had to do the unthinkable to JB
 
Wow, I'd never seen that photo before. I can tell you that without a doubt, if my older son had killed my younger son, no matter the circumstances, I'd never look at him the same way again. It would take me a long time and probably a LOT of therapy to be able to forgive him, especially if it was done in anger and there was torture involved. But then Patsy and John are different from me, I think. Patsy wasn't about to lose Burke, no matter what he'd done. They must have felt it wasn't Burke's fault and that he was a victim in his own way.

And I just thought of another question: If someone had been abusing Burke as well as JBR, didn't that continue after JBR was gone? Why would it stop? Fear of being caught doesn't always cause abusers to stop, after all.

God, I am sick of discussing all of this horrific stuff...yet I can't quite let it go either.

I just noticed on this photo how the parents seem very protective over him. At first I didn't notice, but then I looked at where dads hands are, and moms, and how BR is nestled in btw them, and it occurred to me this is how I hold my dog when little kids want to pet her.

I hold her close, and pet her, and tell her she's good....little kids make her nervous, so this calms her and keeps her from snapping at them out of nervousness.

Anyway it Occured to me that BR's parents, all wrapped around him like that, might be how they are keeping him look normal, and not have a meltdown with the added stress of doing that interview. It could be a sensory, calming sort of thing.
 
I wonder if that is why PR was so stressed in the weeks leading up to JBR's death. The house keeper said she was very stressed. Maybe it was due to BR violence increasing and her feeling out of control of the situation.

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She looks stressed Christmas morning, at least to me, she's smiling, but it's tight, and her eyes look tired, she just looks like someone with a lot going on......but it was the holidays so that can stress a lot if people out on its own ....image.jpeg
 
I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, She had been in bed sleeping before he kidnaped and left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

Just so you know but Tricia does not allow intruder theories here.
 
Just catching up.....but as I do I wanted to throw out this thought I had today.

Some people have speculated that it must have been Patsy because of the monologue she performed, and It being her favorite and the bits about the pineapple....etc. and summarized that this was an indication of it all being her.

BUT IF this book was a favored would this have been something that she would have introduced her children to? Would her children have been read this book? Would they have been familiar with the plot and details?

If you combine that with it also being tied to pageantry stuff, and possibly jealously over extra attention due to pageantry stuff.....then perhaps Burke could have associated that monologue and story with things he most hated.....I dunno just a thought.


Btw this also made me wonder if perhaps Burke ever tried to insert himself in the pageant stuff, I know sometimes little boys, even those who grow up cis-gender sometimes want to wear their sisters clothes. Which made me think for some reason of the pageantry stuff starting after she went through treatment for ovarian cancer, and I though oy vey, Frued would have had a field day with this one......anyway....sorry for that tangent at the end.

PR made, or allowed, if you prefer, JonBenet to watch PRs beauty pageant recordings and those videos of her beauty queen sister, too. Therefore, it would not be surprising if Burke listened to her performance taken from The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie several times, if not more. There is a entire thread on this forum labeled by the book's title.
 
I think the housekeeper said BR was always violent to JB, and that it was getting out of control. I can't remember how many times he hit her with the golf clubs, but I speculate it was often. The parents probably kept that hidden. That the parents kept the violence BR did to JB is enough to indict. jmo
Brendon, you have been blatantly trolling this thread for pages now. Considering you have espoused an unwavering IDI viewpoint since you started posting in this thread, this and all of your other recent responses to posters are obviously 100% sarcastic because you believe what the posters are saying is preposterous. If you feel that way, fine, there are a lot of things being suggested that I find unlikely as well. But your sarcastic remarks add nothing constructive to the conversation. In fact, they seem to intentionally muddle an already complicated discussion where people are trying to ask questions and learn the facts of the case. For example, you know what you posted above was not true. You do not think the housekeeper said any such thing (because to my knowledge, she didn't) and you can remember how many times we know Burke hit JB with a golf club (once) and knowing your posting history I severely doubt you speculate "it was often." So are you trying to confuse people? Creating your own strawman BDI arguments to support your own anti-BDI position? What's your agenda here?

And frankly, you come off as very rude doing this. At least before you were explaining to people why you disagreed with them. You misrepresenting your opinions to people, I guess because you think it's funny, doesn't help anyone or anything and shows a mean-spirited lack of respect to the people you are debating.
 
She looks stressed Christmas morning, at least to me, she's smiling, but it's tight, and her eyes look tired, she just looks like someone with a lot going on......but it was the holidays so that can stress a lot if people out on its own ....View attachment 102187

That's really a cute photo of her. She looks so much better without all that makeup. What a shame this happened to this little sweetheart.
 
as far as I know the cops didnt do much to corral them those first few days, I think they did what they pleased. I hope someone checked the boiler room furnace cause its drving me nuts LOL I would have immediately ordered them all out and locked the doors even before her body was found, I thought all cops knew that
Well. Money talks in this case. They were told to handle them with kid gloves. Had I been first on the scene and been handed that ransom note with the not so subtle threats in it... my first reaction would be to question why the hell they called the police and friends over so easily. That was what sinks their ship in my opinion. That's when I would have hauled their butts to the station and crime scene taped the whole block off. JMOO. They were allowed way too much leeway. IIRC someone on one of the threads, forgive me for not remembering who, said that Patsy's sister was provided police attire to go to the house and gather a bunch of items. They gave her the clothes to keep media from being too curious. But supposedly she hauled a lot that day and it wasnt checked. So no telling what was removed from the scene. I also like the boiler idea. That is an interesting theory. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary if it was in fact on considering the time of year
Would be a great way to dispose of evidence.

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