The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 3

[PositiveLight]

I enjoyed the CBS Documentaries yet the main theory seemed conservative, below I offer some critical remarks and outline in response a speculative BDI theory based on information in the public domain. To avoid litigation I wont go into any detail, but supply bullet style points and allow you to draw your own conclusion.

Excerpt from the Bonita Papers


Don and Nedra Paugh, Burke's maternal grandparents purchased a book about child psychological disorders for his parents.

Linda Hoffman-Pugh said she walked in on Burke and JonBenet under the bed-covers allegedly playing doctor

Linda Wilcox, former housekeeper for the Ramsey's


Hi-Tec boots link Burke Ramsey to the wine-cellar


Pink Barbie Nightgown links Burke Ramsey to the wine-cellar


Tea Glass and Pineapple bowl link Burke Ramsey via his fingerprints to the Breakfast Bar

Pants found on JonBenet's bedroom floor and too large for her might belong to Burke Ramsey?

Fecal matter smeared all over a box of chocolates JonBenet had received for Christmas.

A former Ramsey housekeeper alleged that Burke Ramsey smeared feces on a bathroom wall

Linda Hoffman-Pugh said that she found a grapefruit size of fecal matter in JonBenet's bed

Burke's disturbing, narcissistic interviews and uncaring attitude afterwords. In the public exchanges he didn't ask about his sister once, but about himself, and said he knew how JonBenet had been killed, physically miming the actions. Also he asked whether or not the investigators watch was a real Rolex?

As per the CBS Documentary, its unlikely that the breakfast bar is the primary crime-scene, why because there is no sign of struggle and with the flashlight left on open display.

They say it started in the breakfast bar and that the train track caused the marks on her back.

Also they said the train tracks were available down in the basement and up in BR's bedroom, so did BR travel upstairs or down to the basement to fetch train tracks?

JR claims ignorance


If BR had whacked JonBenet on the head, as per the CBS scenario, and the parents were ignorant about this, then they would have no reason to wipe the flashlight clean?

If BR wiped the flashlight clean and placed it in the kitchen, why not remove the breakfast bar setup at the same time?

Yet the flashlight was wiped clean presumably by one of the parents, so did a parent use it to whack JonBenet in the manner suggested by JR himself, i.e. strangulation happened because blunt force to the head failed?

Linda Wilcox, former housekeeper for the Ramsey's


Barbara Kostanick: I told them what JonBenet had said - that Santa was going to pay her a special visit after Christmas.

Is it possible that BR had planned his encounter with JonBenet in advance, i.e. they were to celebrate Christmas again, clandestinely? Were some of the partially opened gifts intended for JonBenet, was BR going to play a nocturnal Secret Santa?

Patently BR and JonBenet had a close relationship, with JonBenet regularly visiting and staying overnight in BR's bedroom. Linda-Hoffman-Pugh's observation suggest they also played doctor together on various occasions. Patsy stated JonBenet slept in BR's bedroom just before Christmas. So had BR's behavior escalated, becoming more controlling and demanding?

The primary crime scene might be Burke Ramsey's bedroom, where JonBenet made a pre-arranged visit and she was later relocated to her own bedroom, with her bed in disarray, stuff dropped all over the floor. It was here subsequent staging took place, the question is by whom, BR or PR? There was a drop of JonBenet's blood on one of her pillows, linking her to her bedroom, suggesting she bled on her own bed?

Rather than an altercation in the breakfast bar, how about one upstairs that includes fecal matter being deposited along with JonBenet being sexually assaulted?

If those pants found on the floor are indeed Burke Ramsey's then he was naked from the waist down, we also know JonBenet was naked from the waist and bleeding, go figure!

Someone assaulted JonBenet whilst alive causing the bleeding. Coroner Meyer states:


So BR and JonBenet's secret Christmas tryst falls apart they argue, and he manually strangles JonBenet compressing her vagus nerve, she loses consiousness, alternatively she was intentionally whacked on the head with say the barbell lying on the floor then he uses a train track to test her for a response, with JonBenet unresponsive BR might have enacted assumed postmortem ritualistic behavior, thereby explaining some of JonBenet's other injuries?

BR either moves JonBenet to her bedroom, or this is the primary crime scene, here he performs an amateurish cleanup and staging, e.g. redressing her in the pink barbie nightgown, and fixing the hair ties to her head, in a manner Patsy was unlikely to do.

The hair ties were scattered on the bedroom floor at the foot of the bed and in front of the closet. Linda Hoffman-Pugh said that wasn't normal. The ties were usually kept in a basket in the bathroom. Maybe one or two would be lying on the bathroom counter, but they were never on the floor, or even in the bedroom.

The rest is likely staging by the parents.

Linda Hoffman-Pugh said she had left the paint tote at the foot of stairs on December 23, and didn't know who had moved it?

So whomever broke the paintbrush had to retrieve it from downstairs, or JonBenet was relocated to the basement where she was re-staged, i.e. asphyxiated and internally assaulted using the paintbrush, again redressed in the size-12's and white long johns, then wrapped in the white blanket and hidden away, say in a crawl space in the basement?

She was likely then cleaned up with her size-6 underwear, with the size-12's replacing those. Coroner Meyer states:


With both parents indicted on the following charges:
COUNT IV


COUNT VII


So the person is accused of Child Abuse as well as Murder 1. Which must mean the GJ had evidence to back this up, since neither parent was charged with this offence it must leave the remaining resident as the unnamed and anonymous person

.

Question in regards to the barbell. Is it one of those small one pound ones that can be held while doing exercises or a much heavier one that goes to a weight lifting set? Is there a picture of this?? Very curious!! That's one of the things that is also new to me a long with the hair ties. I personally thought her hair style seemed off in the artists rendering of the body and thought maybe it was just something they added. But if that is how the hair was found then it does seem more like what a guy would do as opposed to the mother who is so particular about her darlings hair. It looks to be done after the fact for some reason. I don't know why that has always seemed off to me. With this new information (new to me) it makes more sense now. If that makes sense?

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[PositiveLight]

This is the photo I am referring to
http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetbody1.jpg

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[DeDee]

Interesting UKGuy. I'm curious to know if they ever tested the hair ties for DNA, they probably didn't. I have bounced back and forth between initial crime scene locations but I do think upstairs in one of the two kids rooms are a likely place. You have made a compelling argument.

Perhaps BR fixed JBs hair himself in lopsided ponytails when he woke her for their surprise visit downstairs with the torch. BR needed JBs hair out of the way for what was to come.

Burke told us how it happened. The CPS approved Police Interrogator asked BR if he knew what happened to his sister. Burke told him, "I KNOW what happened."

He continued, "Someone took her quietly ... into the basement." [with a knife and a hammer]

BR took JBR downstairs quietly b/c PR could hear her children on the 2nd Floor below their mastersuite. BR waited until all others were asleep before sneaking out of his room.

BR took her quietly. Remember the Sleep Mask listed on the search warrants. Maybe he covered JonBenet's eyes with the soft eye mask for the surprise ahead, then, led her quietly to the basement using the flashlight, after enjoying a quiet snack of pineapple. If so, JBs eyes are still covered and would account for the minuscule amount of pineapple found in her duodenum. BR didn't give her much of it before proceeding into the basement.
:cow: BR did NOT want JonBenet on the Red Boat Disney Cruise with his parents. Or any other time either. It was not an accident and Spitz agrees with me on that due to the energy of the force required to cause the substantial fatal head injury.

Was JB wearing the sleep mask? "Uncover your eyes ... for a big Surprise!" WhaBham! To ensure that her life was really gone, a ligature was used to tightly strangle JonBenet. She did not resist. Her body quickly succumbed within two minutes of holding the ligature tightly in place. Set a 2m timer. That's an exhaustively long time to die. And JB had already lived, hopefully unconscious, forty five min to two hours before the strangulation. But her torturer was not finished with destroying her. This was overkill due to passion and an impulsive, uncontrollable rage.


JBs twin bed missing a bed pillow. Perhaps it was in the kitchen at the bar area not far from the flashlight.

 

[Charliegirl610]

I personally thought her hair style seemed off in the artists rendering of the body and thought maybe it was just something they added. But if that is how the hair was found then it does seem more like what a guy would do as opposed to the mother who is so particular about her darlings hair. It looks to be done after the fact for some reason. I don't know why that has always seemed off to me. With this new information (new to me) it makes more sense now. If that makes sense?

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Is there a photo from the Whites Christmas Dinner that shows how JBR's hair was done? If she was zonked out in the car as the R's stated, and carried straight to bed, then her hair should have remained in the same fashion that PR had fashioned it from the Christmas dinner. This would prove or disprove her hair was re-styled before her murder.

 

[PositiveLight]

Is there a photo from the Whites Christmas Dinner that shows how JBR's hair was done? If she was zonked out in the car as the R's stated, and carried straight to bed, then her hair should have remained in the same fashion that PR had fashioned it from the Christmas dinner. This would prove or disprove her hair was re-styled before her murder.

I'm looking for a picture now. It would be interesting to know!

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[No it's not]

Perhaps BR fixed JBs hair himself in lopsided ponytails when he woke her for their surprise visit downstairs with the torch. BR needed JBs hair out of the way for what was to come.

Burke told us how it happened. The CPS approved Police Interrogator asked BR if he knew what happened to his sister. Burke told him, "I KNOW what happened."

He continued, "Someone took her quietly ... into the basement." [with a knife and a hammer]

BR took JBR downstairs quietly b/c PR could hear her children on the 2nd Floor below their mastersuite. BR waited until all others were asleep before sneaking out of his room.

BR took her quietly. Remember the Sleep Mask listed on the search warrants. Maybe he covered JonBenet's eyes with the soft eye mask for the surprise ahead, then, led her quietly to the basement using the flashlight, after enjoying a quiet snack of pineapple. If so, JBs eyes are still covered and would account for the minuscule amount of pineapple found in her duodenum. BR didn't give her much of it before proceeding into the basement.
:cow: BR did NOT want JonBenet on the Red Boat Disney Cruise with his parents. Or any other time either. It was not an accident and Spitz agrees with me on that due to the energy of the force required to cause the substantial fatal head injury.

Was JB wearing the sleep mask? "Uncover your eyes ... for a big Surprise!" WhaBham! To ensure that her life was really gone, a ligature was used to tightly strangle JonBenet. She did not resist. Her body quickly succumbed within two minutes of holding the ligature tightly in place. Set a 2m timer. That's an exhaustively long time to die. And JB had already lived, hopefully unconscious, forty five min to two hours before the strangulation. But her torturer was not finished with destroying her. This was overkill due to passion and an impulsive, uncontrollable rage.


JBs twin bed missing a bed pillow. Perhaps it was in the kitchen at the bar area not far from the flashlight.

Here comes the pillow..

-Nin

 

[Scandigirl]

Hi everyone, I've been following all the BDI discussions with great interest since the Dr Phil interviews and CBS show. It does seem to me that Burke is the most likely culprit, unless he was a witness or an accomplice. Very interesting that both UK Guy and DeDee's posts indicate it being premeditated and not an accident.

I feel that the CBS experts might not agree on that issue, with Dr Henry Lee leaning towards it being an accident, and Dr Werner Spitz and James Kolar believing it was intentional and premeditated. Not sure about Jim Clemente and Laura Richards- were they afraid to say too much??

I think Burke did tell what happened, although the sequence of events is confusing. UK Guy's mention of the barbell and blood on Jonbenet's pillow are interesting. If head blow occurred in her bedroom, how did Burke then get her downstairs and get her to eat pineapple, then get her into the basement? Or, did he blindfold her as part of a game, as DeDee says, and "tiptoe" downstairs, maybe carrying the barbell to use as a weapon later? And how does that expain the pillow and blood?

Being nine, could Burke have confused the barbell with a hammer? I could believe that more than him confusing the flashlight with a hammer.

It's interesting that one of the neighbours described seeing "strange moving lights" around the kitchen area- could it have been Burke (and Jonbenet) using the flashlight? Another possible indication of premeditation (but this would involve chilling planning for a 9 year old) could be that apparently the lights in I think the sunroom were switched off that night (if I remember correctly?) when they were usually left on?

Finally, the flashlight is a troubling and confusing element. I had the same questions about it as UK Guy. Why was it left out so boldly with the tea and pineapple? The tea and pineapple had fingerprints left on, but the flashlight was wiped so thoroughly as to include even the batteries. If John, Patsy or Burke's prints had been found on the flashlight, that wouldn't necessarily prove anything or be suspicious, since they all lived in the house and could have handled it innocently at any time- fingerprints can't be dated or linked to a definate time. This makes me wonder what else was so important to hide- maybe someone else's fingerprints? I don't know, but didn't the flashlight originally come from JAR as a gift? Interesting that no one present in the house claimed it. Could there have been anyone else who was no longer present, and whose every trace had been wiped out? Maybe this is just wild over speculation at this point, but the flashlight is a mystery!

Sorry to butt in and write such a long post. Just my opinions and sharing some thoughts, as I usually just read everyone else's fascinating posts! This site doesn't work well on my iPad, so it's a battle to reply or post very often!!

 

[andreww]

Funny that Burke would say that he thought a knife and hammer were used, especially since his knife was found at the murder scene. Maybe he led her downstairs at knifepoint?


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[PositiveLight]

Hi everyone, I've been following all the BDI discussions with great interest since the Dr Phil interviews and CBS show. It does seem to me that Burke is the most likely culprit, unless he was a witness or an accomplice. Very interesting that both UK Guy and DeDee's posts indicate it being premeditated and not an accident.

I feel that the CBS experts might not agree on that issue, with Dr Henry Lee leaning towards it being an accident, and Dr Werner Spitz and James Kolar believing it was intentional and premeditated. Not sure about Jim Clemente and Laura Richards- were they afraid to say too much??

I think Burke did tell what happened, although the sequence of events is confusing. UK Guy's mention of the barbell and blood on Jonbenet's pillow are interesting. If head blow occurred in her bedroom, how did Burke then get her downstairs and get her to eat pineapple, then get her into the basement? Or, did he blindfold her as part of a game, as DeDee says, and "tiptoe" downstairs, maybe carrying the barbell to use as a weapon later? And how does that expain the pillow and blood?

Being nine, could Burke have confused the barbell with a hammer? I could believe that more than him confusing the flashlight with a hammer.

It's interesting that one of the neighbours described seeing "strange moving lights" around the kitchen area- could it have been Burke (and Jonbenet) using the flashlight? Another possible indication of premeditation (but this would involve chilling planning for a 9 year old) could be that apparently the lights in I think the sunroom were switched off that night (if I remember correctly?) when they were usually left on?

Finally, the flashlight is a troubling and confusing element. I had the same questions about it as UK Guy. Why was it left out so boldly with the tea and pineapple? The tea and pineapple had fingerprints left on, but the flashlight was wiped so thoroughly as to include even the batteries. If John, Patsy or Burke's prints had been found on the flashlight, that wouldn't necessarily prove anything or be suspicious, since they all lived in the house and could have handled it innocently at any time- fingerprints can't be dated or linked to a definate time. This makes me wonder what else was so important to hide- maybe someone else's fingerprints? I don't know, but didn't the flashlight originally come from JAR as a gift? Interesting that no one present in the house claimed it. Could there have been anyone else who was no longer present, and whose every trace had been wiped out? Maybe this is just wild over speculation at this point, but the flashlight is a mystery!

Sorry to butt in and write such a long post. Just my opinions and sharing some thoughts, as I usually just read everyone else's fascinating posts! This site doesn't work well on my iPad, so it's a battle to reply or post very often!!

Welcome!!! The flashlight imho had to play some part in the crime. Otherwise it wouldnt be completely free of fingerprints. Plus it was out of the drawer where it was usually kept. I don't think JR and PR were busy placing red herrings besides the ransom short story. I think they wiped it down and set it on the counter to maybe dry and forgot it was there. Then once the cops got there it would seem too weird if they put it in the drawer. I like the barbell idea too.
Playing on UKGuys theory, maybe the flashlight was used to carry her downstairs to the basement by the parents. Maybe it's possible that they had removed the initial ligature that BR used and grabbed something nearby downstairs to cover up the initial strangulation. But they didn't realize she was still alive when they did it. Being unconscious she didn't even move or show signs of death until she urinated on herself. It's possible they didn't even think this was a sign and cleaned her up to cover up and applied clothing (the big panties and long johns) to her. Maybe the long johns were in the dryer with the blanket. I still think BDI with intent. The parents found her quickly and staged the scene. The pineapple could have been eaten during the "Santa Claus phase and they snuck back upstairs."
BR could have had intent to kill her but unaware of the long term consequences. When he stated on Dr. Phil that he didn't know that would be the last time he'd see her (referring to the funeral) maybe he really meant when he gravely injured her that night.
IF this is the case, then JR could still be charged with murder if he applied the garrote that ended her life. So maybe that's why they continue to fight this so hard. Maybe they thought BR had caused her death until the AR was released and then they realized they actually did the last move. JMOO but it would explain why they have covered for so long. BR meant to kill her and did horrible things to her during her death and JR actually did kill her unknowingly. PR wrote the note. I think one of the worst parts of the investigation is they didn't get their phone records. That may have told the story we needed to know to solve the case. Maybe JR called his lawyer friend and that is when the lawyers were brought in. I imagine there were a lot of frantic calls made that night and during the morning hours before the 911 call was made on the house phone.
Maybe when PR thought she hung up the phone, and was heard saying 'ok we've called the cops now what?' she was looking towards John for direction to know what the lawyer told them to do next. JMOO

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[HarmonyE.]

Some of these theories are a bit too elaborate for me.

I agree Burke was a clever lil monster, but I don't think he both planned and pulled off the crime of the century. (with the help of the ransom note author and then the Keystone cops, of course). There may have been some earlier fantasizing on Burke's part, especially with regard to the strangling if he did that part and he may well have intended to hurt or kill her with the blunt object when he hit her. But I don't think he could have pulled off an extensive plan in advance to murder her.

Either Kolar or Thomas thought the special Christmas surprise after Christmas was related to "second Christmas" the family was going to have in Michigan on the 26th. Patsy said they were bringing another set of gifts for the children. Being six, JonBenet was probably told that Santa was going to drop off presents for her there as well. There may have been a special gift she was hoping to get from Santa then. This makes much more sense to me than Burke faking JonBenet out by telling her Santa had returned to the Boulder house.

 

[Scandigirl]

Hi Positive Light, thanks for your welcome and reply! I agree with your point that the phone records for that night might well have solved the crime. And also that if John (or Patsy) had been the one to perform the strangulation, if Burke only did the head blow, then whoever strangled JB would have really been the killer. When you consider any of the possible BDI scenarios, as with any theory in this case, it raises as many questions as it solves.

Whilst, if BDI (which I'm leaning towards, but still open to doubt), I tend to think it was premeditated- as HarmonyE says, it's a stretch for me to think that even a cunning 9 year old could have planned it all out too far in advance, and with too much detail. For me, by premeditated I'm thinking with deliberate intent to kill, which wouldn't be very far in advance necessarily at all.

However, I've always and still have a troubling feeling in this case that there's still an unknown piece of the puzzle missing somehow in this case, although I have no ideas what. It's partly because so many things in any one theory don't always add up, but also because you could argue that there could be some indications of possible premeditation further in advance. This depends on how you look at things, though, as they could also be random coincidences- who knows?!

I'm thinking of some of the house lights being turned off downstairs that night, that were usually left on, the 911 call from the party on 23rd (someone possible testing police response times?), the crime being committed at Christmas, when LE would be slow and lacking in their usual resources during the holiday period etc etc. All these things could be linked together as suspicious, but equally maybe not... I think that, if they do have any real meaning in terms of any premeditation, it must point more to an adult and not 9 year old Burke, for that level of cunning, planning and details. But, that whole angle is probably too far fetched in general, plus it's hard to think of possible motives.

If it was BDI, a couple of other things bother me.... Firstly, if so, would he be likely to be risking suing Dr Werner Spitz, and opening the whole can of worms further? Unless he feels confident that no proof can be found. I'm thinking of his reply on Dr Phil: "Look at the evidence, or lack thereof." Not- "I'm devasted that anyone could think I could do something so horrible as to harm my much-loved sister!"

It also bothers me that the only question Burke apparently asked his father was: "Where did you find the body?"

What puzzles me about this question, is that if he was the culprit, he would surely know the answer to this already, and not need to ask? If he hit her, and then either went to bed and left her to be found, or went to tell his parents that something had happened, either way, he would know where he had left her, and therefore where his parents would find her. The same applies to if he had strangled her? Why would he need to specifically ask? Even if you say that he knew his parents had staged her body and hidden it somewhere for LE to find, then surely he would have asked the question differently, along the lines of: "Where did they find her?" Or, "Where did you leave her to be found?" Etc

Maybe I'm overthinking many things and getting confused, but it's certainly a head scratcher!

 

[HarmonyE.]

However, I've always and still have a troubling feeling in this case that there's still an unknown piece of the puzzle missing somehow in this case, although I have no ideas what. It's partly because so many things in any one theory don't always add up, but also because you could argue that there could be some indications of possible premeditation further in advance. This depends on how you look at things, though, as they could also be random coincidences- who knows?!

I think we are missing many pieces of the puzzle, which is why this is still such a hot topic.

The only two puzzle pieces I'm personally completely sure of? Burke hit JonBenet on the head very hard with some heavy, blunt object and Patsy wrote the psycho-flowery ransom note.

I think it's likely Burke did the strangulation. And I think it's likely John and Patsy both did some staging. But where Burke left off and and his parents took over? Unless he decides to spill his guts some day - and he has a long life ahead of him - I don't think we'll ever know the complete story. We can only make logical guesses based on what we do know.

 

[Charliegirl610]

Hi Positive Light, thanks for your welcome and reply! I agree with your point that the phone records for that night might well have solved the crime. And also that if John (or Patsy) had been the one to perform the strangulation, if Burke only did the head blow, then whoever strangled JB would have really been the killer. When you consider any of the possible BDI scenarios, as with any theory in this case, it raises as many questions as it solves.

Whilst, if BDI (which I'm leaning towards, but still open to doubt), I tend to think it was premeditated- as HarmonyE says, it's a stretch for me to think that even a cunning 9 year old could have planned it all out too far in advance, and with too much detail. For me, by premeditated I'm thinking with deliberate intent to kill, which wouldn't be very far in advance necessarily at all.

However, I've always and still have a troubling feeling in this case that there's still an unknown piece of the puzzle missing somehow in this case, although I have no ideas what. It's partly because so many things in any one theory don't always add up, but also because you could argue that there could be some indications of possible premeditation further in advance. This depends on how you look at things, though, as they could also be random coincidences- who knows?!

I'm thinking of some of the house lights being turned off downstairs that night, that were usually left on, the 911 call from the party on 23rd (someone possible testing police response times?), the crime being committed at Christmas, when LE would be slow and lacking in their usual resources during the holiday period etc etc. All these things could be linked together as suspicious, but equally maybe not... I think that, if they do have any real meaning in terms of any premeditation, it must point more to an adult and not 9 year old Burke, for that level of cunning, planning and details. But, that whole angle is probably too far fetched in general, plus it's hard to think of possible motives.

If it was BDI, a couple of other things bother me.... Firstly, if so, would he be likely to be risking suing Dr Werner Spitz, and opening the whole can of worms further? Unless he feels confident that no proof can be found. I'm thinking of his reply on Dr Phil: "Look at the evidence, or lack thereof." Not- "I'm devasted that anyone could think I could do something so horrible as to harm my much-loved sister!"

It also bothers me that the only question Burke apparently asked his father was: "Where did you find the body?"

What puzzles me about this question, is that if he was the culprit, he would surely know the answer to this already, and not need to ask? If he hit her, and then either went to bed and left her to be found, or went to tell his parents that something had happened, either way, he would know where he had left her, and therefore where his parents would find her. The same applies to if he had strangled her? Why would he need to specifically ask? Even if you say that he knew his parents had staged her body and hidden it somewhere for LE to find, then surely he would have asked the question differently, along the lines of: "Where did they find her?" Or, "Where did you leave her to be found?" Etc

Maybe I'm overthinking many things and getting confused, but it's certainly a head scratcher!

I think the "where did you find the body?" is because he was sent to bed while the parents cleaned up and staged the crime scene. The next thing BR is aware of is his mother screaming into the phone that she found a ransom note and her daughter was missing. Hence, "What did you find?" that BR is heard to say after PR thought she hung up the phone. When BR is finally taken from his room, he is told by his father that JBR is missing before being whisked away to the Whites house. Later before BR is taken to the Fernies, an officer shows up at Whites house to briefly question him. At this time BR is still under the impression that JBR is missing. BR states several times that when he was brought over to the Fernies later that evening, he assumed she was found, but upon entering everyone is sad. JR then tells BR that JBR is in heaven with Beth. BR then asks his father where did you find the body. moo

 

[Scandigirl]

Just had one more thought about the "Where did you find her body?" question. Another possibility is that Burke knew full well where his father must have found the body, but he was deliberately trying to appear ignorant, as if he knew nothing, and he therefore couldn't possibly have had anything to do with it. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the most likely explanation!

 

[PositiveLight]

Working on transcribing the Dr. Phil interviews now. 10 min in and it's basically all fluff so far. Blegh! So many weird changes to the story so far too by news reporters etc. I'm not adding my opinions on these though. Just trying to do a word for word. I'm already annoyed at how DP is leading people to feel like he's going to make them confess...knowing what the ending is like and the Q&A session too.i didn't record the last episode so I will have to dig up an online recording. I was so frustrated at that point with Dr. Phil I cancelled the last recording. Oopsies!😇

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[Annapurna]

Just had one more thought about the "Where did you find her body?" question. Another possibility is that Burke knew full well where his father must have found the body, but he was deliberately trying to appear ignorant, as if he knew nothing, and he therefore couldn't possibly have had anything to do with it. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the most likely explanation!

Sorry if this was addressed up-thread, but where is the source of this quote? (I believe you, but trust & verify).
What a strange and creepy kid.

 

[kanzz]

Sorry if this was addressed up-thread, but where is the source of this quote? (I believe you, but trust & verify).
What a strange and creepy kid.

It was from BR's interview with Dr. Bernhard. I don't have the transcript or the video, but here is a reference:
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?3780-Burke-s-1997-Interview

 

[Annapurna]

I'm looking for a picture now. It would be interesting to know!

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Hey PL, just so you're not looking, there are no public photos of her that night. The police do have them however.

My theory with the hair ties is that it was part of the bedtime ritual. JB having long, color treated hair would be prone to tangles. Its most likely to me that PR would pull her hair back and tie it to avoid snarls. The scrunchi on top of her head matched her christmas outfit and was likely done for the party. In that picture of the pillow on the counter I see some hair products as well. Perhaps when they got home, PR fixes a special christmas snack for BR. While she is doing JB's hair (applying de-tangler, brushing and putting the second blue hair tie on) JB is in the same room as BR. JB might grab some pineapple at this point. Maybe a fight (verbal) ensued between the siblings which pissed BR off and started him thinking "there's gotta be a way to get rid of this girl" .

 

[Scandigirl]

Hi Annapurna, Burke certainly is one creepy kid! The quote is taken directly from a clip of his interview when he was 9, which was shown during the second episode of the CBS documentary show. He actually said words to the effect of: "Well, I...I asked my Dad where did you find her body?"

I'm really sorry, I'm not clever enough to send a direct link, but maybe someone else reading this will be able to? I found his body language very interesting when he was saying this, too- he was holding a game which was a plastic frame, and holding it over his face, to hide behind.

Also from the CBS documentary, another quite chilling comment from Burke stands out in my mind- in his interview when he was 11, he seemed very cocky, and when talking about hearing that night that his sister may be missing, he said: "What are the chances of that happening?" To me, it was both flippantly casual, but also as if he meant "If only- I should be so lucky!"

 

[PositiveLight]

Hey PL, just so you're not looking, there are no public photos of her that night. The police do have them however.

My theory with the hair ties is that it was part of the bedtime ritual. JB having long, color treated hair would be prone to tangles. Its most likely to me that PR would pull her hair back and tie it to avoid snarls. The scrunchi on top of her head matched her christmas outfit and was likely done for the party. In that picture of the pillow on the counter I see some hair products as well. Perhaps when they got home, PR fixes a special christmas snack for BR. While she is doing JB's hair (applying de-tangler, brushing and putting the second blue hair tie on) JB is in the same room as BR. JB might grab some pineapple at this point. Maybe a fight (verbal) ensued between the siblings which pissed BR off and started him thinking "there's gotta be a way to get rid of this girl" .

You make a very good point here! There have been many times my daughter when little would be sleepy and use a pillow on the table while I worked on her hair. Long blonde and curly tangles extremely easily. Sometimes that's the only time she would sit still long enough for me to untangle it. This would have been a perfect time for the pineapple to come into play. Actually it would lay it perfectly in time. This is the reason this case is so confusing and frustrating I think. Because there are so many possibilities but none point to an outside source. It all points inward to the three left in the house alive.
Is it just me or do others sense when someone else is in the house even if they have no idea they are? Or that someone has been in the house?
I used to live in a 6 bed/3 bath house and 3 floors. I KNEW even if someone was as quiet as a mouse and on a different floor I would sense it. The few times my hubby has snuck up on me he got karate chopped! I was ready to kill.[emoji23]

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