The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

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After watching BR interviews right after her murder and when he was 11 I am 100% convinced he did it, and I believe this was no accident. Watching the interview with him and Bernhard he was just "going on with his life", and he doesnt really think about her and the murder because he is too busy in his video games he said. He was jealous of his sister and I believe he wanted her dead, he showed no remorse then and he doesn't now. When watching the interview with J and P Ramsey when she is wearing the black suit with the white trim and JR says he will miss his daughter dearly and they hang their heads down I kinda felt sorry for them, their son killed their daughter and ruined their lives. I believe he was the one who left the "grapefruit " size feces in her bed and on her candy box as well. Shows how much he hated his sister, leaving feces on her things
 
As always, an excellent post TeaTime! The things the Ramseys were evasive about are integral to the case.

When you have time, I'd love to see your summary of the flashlight, bloomies, and unwrapped presents. Heck, maybe even the pageants were a source of contention, considering how they downplayed them.
 
I can see one of the parents bashing JB over the head more than I can Burke.

I think they found her clinging to life, deeply unconscious, partially strangled, and sexually assaulted, and they wanted to do something to quickly end her suffering and bring about her demise, without leaving a print on her. In the event maybe she still didn't die straight away, but some time after the blow.

I think that head blow was very determined and very hard, and I'm not saying a child doesn't have the capability, I'm doubting the purposefulness required. The demonstration showed the purpose needed to reconstruct the fracture.

I then think the paintbrush was made into a garrote by JR to make it look like the work of an adult and remove suspicion from his son.

Does anyone know if the swiss army knife had any DNA on it?
 
Lin Wood is saying on Twitter there is no proof Jonbenet ate pineapple. Sure enough, the autopsy says "which may represent fragments of pineapple" . Playing devils advocate here, how sure can we be that it is pineapple?

Pineapple is pretty distinctive in shape and color. A banana would be mushy and possible processed faster.
 
I don't have time to address all of your "points" right now so I will for now focus on the 911 call, which I forgot to mention in my previous post. You could have 100 "experts" listen to the end of that call and hear 100 different things. NOTHING at the end of the call is clearly audible. Nothing. Even if there are voices, due to the artifact, it is impossible to know who the voices belong to, how many there are, and what they are saying. Even the investigators on the show had trouble making anything out, admitting that the words they hear aren't entirely clear. Yet they then used those unclear, unproven words to support their theory. Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

As for Kim, she stated that she heard two, MAYBE three voices. It is possible that she did hear voices. Are we going to ignore the elephant in the room...the fact that the words that Kim thought she heard DON'T MATCH what the investigators thought they heard??? That is HUGE. Why don't they match?

As for he Hi-tech boot, I thought John Andrew owned a pair. Was the boot mark measured? Did the measurement match up with Burke's shoe size? This should be pretty easy to clear up.

I definitely heard all three voices, including a child's pitch. It isn't really important to make out the words in my opinion, it just shows BR was not asleep.
 
Lin Wood should be knocking down the door of whomever has that garrote held as evidence and demanding it be untied and examined for touch DNA to exonerate his clients... That'll be the day. only the guilty hide behind bully lawyers.
 
Just speculating but Patsy's cancer probably played a part. I doubt John would've wanted his terminally ill wife to die in prison or have to go through a trial. I doubt if he'd want his son to have to deal with not only a younger sibling's death but also a mother who did it.

I think shame and family association would probably play the largest parts in a family cover up.
 
I found this part of Kohler's Reddit AMA very interesting. He's asked "Do you believe the partially unwrapped Christmas toys in the basement had anything to do with the crime and if so how? And Kohler's replies, "I believe the torn wrapping on the Christmas presents photographed in the wine cellar played a part in the circumstances surrounding the murder. I can't say how because it is part of my hypothesis."

Also in the same AMA, he is asked if he believed it possible that the head blow was delivered from behind while JBR was seated in the kitchen while eating pineapple, and he replies, "It's hard to say if she was seated or standing when the blow was struck."

YouWho,

There is a Barbie Doll lying on the wine-cellar floor that looks as if its just been opened. I would guess that's what BR told JonBenet about, it was likely part of extra gifts the children were to open after their vacation?

As Kolar suggests in his reddit AMA and being interviewed by Tricia, he is constrained legally by what he can reveal. So I doubt it all began in the breakfast bar, that's a convenient location for Kolar to avoid further speculation.

Kolar thinks one person did it all. Presumably Burke Ramsey, yet Kolar offers to no rationale for staging a crime-scene in the wine-cellar yet leaving the alleged primary crime-scene uncleaned.

Personally I reckon JonBenet and her assailant had long left the breakfast bar by the time she was struck on the head and asphyxiated.

What took place will depend on what you think the motive was: anger, sexual, accident. Each will produce a different theory.

.
 
Does anyone know if PR had complications with her pregnancy with BR?

I was just thinking of Jeffrey Dahmer's mother being interviewed and she stated she was on antibiotics for a big chunk of her pregnancy ...
 
YouWho,

There is a Barbie Doll lying on the wine-cellar floor that looks as if its just been opened. I would guess that's what BR told JonBenet about, it was likely part of extra gifts the children were to open after their vacation?

As Kolar suggests in his reddit AMA and being interviewed by Tricia, he is constrained legally by what he can reveal. So I doubt it all began in the breakfast bar, that's a convenient location for Kolar to avoid further speculation.

Kolar thinks one person did it all. Presumably Burke Ramsey, yet Kolar offers to no rationale for staging a crime-scene in the wine-cellar yet leaving the alleged primary crime-scene uncleaned.

Personally I reckon JonBenet and her assailant had long left the breakfast bar by the time she was struck on the head and asphyxiated.

What took place will depend on what you think the motive was: anger, sexual, accident. Each will produce a different theory.

.

That's interesting about the Barbie doll. Patsy said in her 1998 interview that she had wrapped extra presents to take with them that day to the lake house. That is because they were meeting JR's older kids to do Christmas with them, and had presents for them, and she had done a few extra presents for JBR and BR, so they wouldn't feel left out.
 
I don't have time to address all of your "points" right now so I will for now focus on the 911 call, which I forgot to mention in my previous post. You could have 100 "experts" listen to the end of that call and hear 100 different things. NOTHING at the end of the call is clearly audible. Nothing. Even if there are voices, due to the artifact, it is impossible to know who the voices belong to, how many there are, and what they are saying. Even the investigators on the show had trouble making anything out, admitting that the words they hear aren't entirely clear. Yet they then used those unclear, unproven words to support their theory. Am I the only one who has a problem with this?


As for Kim, she stated that she heard two, MAYBE three voices. It is possible that she did hear voices. Are we going to ignore the elephant in the room...the fact that the words that Kim thought she heard DON'T MATCH what the investigators thought they heard??? That is HUGE. Why don't they match?

As for he Hi-tech boot, I thought John Andrew owned a pair. Was the boot mark measured? Did the measurement match up with Burke's shoe size? This should be pretty easy to clear up.


With all due repsect, try not to get bogged down on details that are not significant. It is not at all important what the voices said but rather that 3 distinct voices can be heard, proving that the Ramseys lied about Burke being asleep.

This isn't the only evidence that proves they lied about him being asleep, just the one that can not be explained away by Burke's self-described duping behavior; pretending to be asleep. I heard the voices long ago, on a different enhanced tape.

If John Andrew owned a pair of HiTech hiking boots, then ask yourself why have the Ramseys consistently denied that anyone in the family owned such boots, why Lin Wood claimed on the DP show just days ago that no one in the family owned such a pair of boots and why, if JAR did own these boots, did they not tell this to LE but rather let LE investigate the source of the print, including the shoes worn by all LE in the house that morning and further allowed Lou Smit to wax on about he intruder leaving the print, all the while knowing it could have been JAR's boot?

Then do not forget that Burke admitted having a pair, albeit 20 years later.

The boot print was of course measured and it was a boy's size 12, IIRC.
 
Lin Wood should be knocking down the door of whomever has that garrote held as evidence and demanding it be untied and examined for touch DNA to exonerate his clients... That'll be the day. The guilty do not hide behind bully lawyers.

If touch DNA on that rope would match the DNA from the panties, I'd change my theory 100% to an intruder did it.
 
Lin Wood sees a big paycheck in his future as does Burke Ramsey.

Rolling Stone got so much wrong in their article that I don't have time to address it. Shameful.

Burke Ramsey's prints were on the bowl of pineapple and the iced tea glass, his boot print in the WC (yes, he admitted on DP he had a pair of hiking boots with a compass on the shoelace and we know from otg (?) that HiTechs had compasses on the shoelaces in the 1996 era), his DNA on the nightgown found next to he body, he roamed the house alone that night by his own admission, he was heard by the 911 operator on the call, he admitted on DP that he was awake and only pretended to be asleep in the morning. These are hard facts. The reaction of the parents to all of these facts was to deny, disown, disavow. Why?

A bowl of pineapple and milk with an iced tea glass should be innocuous items in anyone's home. What was the response of the Ramsey adults? "I didn't serve that like that", "that spoon is too big for that", "is that one of the good spoons?", "I don't remember having pineapple in the house", "that's a big bowl", "JBR didn't have a snack before bed", "no pineapple was served at the White's", 'are you sure Burke's prints are on that bowl and glass?", "the intruder must have fed her that", "Santa must have fed her that". Mic drop. They twisted and contorted themselves to get as far away from that bowl of pineapple with Burke's prints as possible because and only because JBR had pineapple in her digestive tract at autopsy. Guilty knowledge that the pineapple factors in to what happened later - the murder of JBR. Lastly, but surely not least, Burke's reaction to the photo of the bowl of pineapple. There is no reason for him to react to this photo as if he had seen a ghost, or been caught strangling a cat, unless that particular item was relevant to something he did not want to talk about or own. He was at a loss for words and then kneeled on his hands on the chair as he pretended to not be able to identify an obvious object in the photo. When asked what kind of snacks JBR liked, he responded "she didn't get a snack". Twenty years later, he "maybe" ate pineapple and then "would you remember what you ate 20 years ago?".

The HiTech boot print that Lou Smit used as evidence to bolster his perverted intruder theory. Again, contorted, twisting responses to distance anyone in the family from being in the WC. "we didn't own any HiTech boots", "Burke had some boots but I don't remember the brand, they had little compasses on them", "he was asleep", "the intruder wore these boots". Even Lin Wood stated on the DP show that the Ramsey family never owned a pair of HiTech boots! But, Burke admitted he owned hiking boots with a compass on the shoelace and otg(?) found an add for HiTech boots from 1996 which depict the signature compass on them. Most telling is that after Burke admitted that he owned the dang HiTech boots, he stated "I was always in the basement playing so what does that prove?" Mic drop. The Ramseys allowed Lou Smit to develop a theory of an intruder using, in part, the boot print, knowing full well that Burke owned those boots. Why? Because that boot print puts him IN the murder scene. Does it prove he was there that particular night? No. But the denials tell us it is important.

Burke Ramsey is heard on the 911 call at 5:52am. They can all talk about the enhanced recordings and subjective interpretations of the sounds forever and ever but the fact remains that the operator, Kim Archuleta, heard 3 distinct voices after Patsy stopped talking to her. Again, the lies and distortions. "Burke was asleep, he knows nothing", "we woke him at 7am to go to the White's house". BUT, Burke himself tells us he was awake, just pretending to be asleep after Patsy came into his room, which by her account, she did before the 911 call. Why is it important that Burke be sleep? So no one will question him. Why are they afraid for Burke to be questioned by LE who arrived to investigate the overnight kidnapping of his sister? Add it up and you know. Twenty years later, Burke continues to claim it wasn't him on the call, unless someone erased his memory. Wha?? Apparently, he had not heard of Kim Archuleta yet.

The Grand Jury voted to charge both parents with accessory to first degree murder, assisting or conspiring to assist in the cover up of FDM, among other charges. Neither was charged with first degree murder, so just who were they assisting after the murder? Well, they weren't assisting the elusive intruder. There were three people in the house and 2 are charged as conspirators, accessories after the fact. I do not think it takes a quantum leap of faith to deduct that they were charged with assisting in the cover up of the crime committed but the 3rd person in the house - Burke Ramsey.

tDNA is irrelevant to the case. Dr. Lee performed DNA tests on panties from a brand new, unopened, package of panties and found what? DNA. Yep, DNA deposited during the manufacturing and packaging process. He explained how simple it is to have other people's DNA all over us and how easy it is to transfer DNA from one object to another, object to person, and even object to person to person. tDNA can be analyzed from a single cell. He opined that this tDNA likely came from someone who sewed the panties, worked in the sewing room or the packaging department of the manufacturer. It is hardly worthy of being THE key piece of evidence that exonerates the three people in the house the night of the murder. Let'snot even go to where some have, that there was tDNA from 5-6 people on JBR, non of which could be sourced because following Mary Lacy's logic and Lin Wood's acceptance of that, it would mean that there were 5-6 unidentifiable people, all touching JBR before, during and after her murder.

The spider web. JR admitted that he broke the window to gain entry into the house one night after he locked himself out of the house about a year before the murder. FW noticed the window on his first visit, the window was unlocked and slightly open. JR told FW that he had done this. When asked to look for entry points, JR never brought up the broken window because he knew it was insignificant. However, Lou Smit decided that this was the entry point and demonstrated how a person could get into the house from the window, completely disregarding the presence of a spider's web that remained undisturbed and the accumulated debris in the window well that also was undisturbed as evidenced by crime scene photos. An entomologist determined the species that created that web and stated that such spiders do not create webs in the winter, that the web was old and left over from a previous season and the spider could not have rebuilt the web overnight after the intruder entered. CBS showed that no one could climb through that window and leave the spider web intact or the debris in the window well undisturbed. Riveting, compelling, proof that the basement window was NOT the entry point. But, the Ramseys latched onto it to support the mythical intruder theory to deflect from the truth.

Burke Ramsey hit his sister in anger with a golf club. Judith Phillips, who has no dog in this fight, told CBS that Patsy Ramsey herself said that the mark under JBR's eye was caused by Burke when he was angry and hit JBR with a golf club. Period. It was not an accidental back swing as Burke suggested- Patsy would have said so. Even DP says the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. We know that Burke was capable of striking his sister with an object in anger. While one little episode of sibling argument may be meaningless, every memory that Burke expressed of his sister seemed to be one of conflict: fighting over space in the back seat of the car, fighting over who gets to press elevator buttons, squabbles over toys. The nicest memory he recounted was her falling off of her bike on Christmas day and then sitting on it.

Poop. Lots of poop stories. Poop on the walls, poop in the bed, poop stains on clothes, poop left unflushed in toilets, poop, poop, poop, but most important is the poop in the candy box. I can not get the comments Dr. Glass made in her interview with Tricia out of my head. She, a behavior analyst, said that poop in the candy was an act of 'violence' and 'hatred' towards JBR. I would have thought it was just a sick, disgusting thing to do but she describes it as an act AGAINST JB, personal, and done with malice.

I've moved on with my life. Thirteen days after the murder, Burke has moved on with his life. The entire city of Boulder is terrified by the thought that there is a sexually perverted, child killer loose in their community, Patsy told them so on CNN, yet Burke is not afraid. He isn't sad because he just plays, (insert noises) games on his machine. He is delighted that his school is surrounded by media who ask his friends about him as they go to and from school. He mimics them putting microphones in the kids' faces. When asked what he thinks happened, he states, with a bit of indignance, "I KNOW what happened" and then describes (and mimics) tip toeing downstairs quietly into the basement, maybe with a knife, and then "whoops" hit JBR in the head with maybe a hammer. This is at a time when both parents are claiming that they never discussed what happened with him. He draws a picture of his family minus JBR and 20 years later explains, "well, she was gone, so. . ."

The black tape. IIRC it was in ST's book where we read of the black, red and white jackets/sweater jackets that Patsy and Priscilla owned, which were almost identical and that Patsy had put on Priscilla's jacket one night as she was leaving their house. It seems that Patsy's jacket/sweater jacket had a loose button or hem that was taped into place with some black tape. I remember it because it seemed so Patsy-like to try to 'exchange her defective jacket for PW's". The jacket does not become important until we realize that the sticky side of the black tape on JBR's mouth held fibers from Patsy's jacket and no black tape was found in the house. The next most curious fact is that John called AMX to try to figure out what Patsy bought at the hardware store, which just so happened to have sold the kind of tape and cord found on JBR's body.

Bring it Lin Wood. I will do my best to be in the courtroom to watch. CBS looked at all the evidence with fresh eyes and determined that it all led to one conclusion. The conclusion was opinion based on facts and expertise and your client exposed himself to the public and became a public figure before CBS aired its special. He should sue YOU for bad advice. As we used to say, you stepped on your own **** going on that show.

Did anyone check for a roll of black tape at the Whites home? (the jacket with black tape)
 
This isn't the theory I have (I'm BDI)but I've always thought Patsy could have gotten John's compliance pretty easily. Angry Patsy was ruthless. If he tried to take her down she'd drag him with her. Hell hath no fury like Patsy Ramsey scorned.
If it was known there would be evidence of someone sexually abusing JB then Patsy could have used that to put him in an impossible situation where she e would point the finger at him knowing that his only real defense would be to turn in his own son.

Given her flair for dramatics she would have probably given a Jodi Arias level performance in court when she got on the stand and explained she caught her husband about to molest her daughter, went to hit him but struck poor JB instead.

Seems like a good place to insert a tidbit I haven't seen discussed in a few years. Patsy's talent in the Miss America pageant was a dramatic monologue. She won the talent portion of the event.

ETA: just found a link (there are more, plus I remember seeing her do this monologue):

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/bios/ramseyfamily/patsyramsey.html
 
That's interesting about the Barbie doll. Patsy said in her 1998 interview that she had wrapped extra presents to take with them that day to the lake house. That is because they were meeting JR's older kids to do Christmas with them, and had presents for them, and she had done a few extra presents for JBR and BR, so they wouldn't feel left out.

Tortoise,
BR's birthday present was there too. The doll was likely so JonBenet never felt left out? Some have speculated this was the Secret Santa, i.e. the person who told JonBenet about Santa's extra visit, knew there was more gifts and had preplanned to open them after Christmas Day's proceedings were over?

So I'll toss this out there, it could be BR was Secret Santa, and it was preplanned and premeditated, just how much was accident and how much was deliberate is open to debate.

The latter would form part of my BDI theory.

.
 
According to a tweet by Lin Wood, "He [Burke] knew CBS accusations were coming & felt he should exercise his right of reasonable response. Has never wanted public status." So, if true, the timing of the DP show was in response to the upcoming CBS special, as opposed to strategically scheduled to maximize ratings. Just as we suspected here on WS before the show aired. IMO.

Aha! So his reason for going public now to "honor his sister," as told to DP & the world, was yet another lie, as just confirmed by none other than BR's attorney.

Lie after lie after lie is what can be counted on when it comes to this family.
 
Aha! So his reason for going public now to "honor his sister," as told to DP & the world, was yet another lie, as just confirmed by none other than BR's attorney.

Lie after lie after lie is what can be counted on when it comes to this family.

It was no accidental chiming. The 20 year anniversary isn't until Christmas.
 
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