The cries for help

[Karmady]

BBM: So why don't you believe TM's mother when she says the screaming is HER son's voice? Is there some reason to believe her son's voice is less precious to her?

Not smm, of course, but I know this: I love my son more than I love anything or anybody. Just as any mother does (except, unfortunately, some that we read about here). I do NOT always recognize his voice when he calls me -- I frequently mistake him for his sister (which he LOVES lol). And I have no confidence at all that I could identify his voice from a tape such as that, and god knows I hope I never have to. But if someone told me that they were going to play me an audio recording of what I knew to be my son's final moments, I might be able to identify his voice, depending on the quality of the tape and what types of sounds were heard. But I am not at all confident that I would be accurate under those circumstances, especially if the audio was poor and the words were unclear. jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

He was able to describe the clothing.

Who was wearing the red sweater then?

"The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater"

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...yvon-martin-beating-george-zimmerman-shooting

IMO the jacket GZ was wearing looks nothing like a sweater.

 

[jjenny]

Who was wearing the red sweater then?

"The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater"

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...yvon-martin-beating-george-zimmerman-shooting

IMO the jacket GZ was wearing looks nothing like a sweater.

And even that is better than the rest of the witnesses could come up with. By the way in his actual handwritten statement he says "read sweater or some type of red top."

 

[Phoenixfla]

BBM

That is not true. She clarified her statement that day.

I can not imagine sitting there listening to the tapes of my son getting shot a couple of days after it happened. He probably never heard a thing on them.

Your mind protects you from stuff like that.

Maybe that is the difference in GZs statements.....clarification.

 

[wowitsdark]

BBM: So why don't you believe TM's mother when she says the screaming is HER son's voice? Is there some reason to believe her son's voice is less precious to her?

I believe that:

1) The audio was not great

2) A frightened, panicked "Help me!" is probably not something either TM's or GZ's parents ever heard them scream, so it is likely that the pitch coupled with the distortion would make it difficult for either of them to say whether it was their son, with certainty

3) Both TM's parents and GZ's parents believe their son, during the screams, was the one that did not have the upper hand and was not the aggressor.

4) It stands to reason that both sets of parents, given those three things, would assume that the screams were coming from their own son.

 

[Etilema]

And even that is better than the rest of the witnesses could come up with. By the way in his actual handwritten statement he says "read sweater or some type of red top."

That word "top" implies it was more of a pullover type of garment than a cardigan/jacket. JMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And even that is better than the rest of the witnesses could come up with. By the way in his actual handwritten statement he says "read sweater or some type of red top."

ETA: BBM.
Thank you, I appreciate the clarification. I haven't read most of the doc dump so I am way behind.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I believe that:

1) The audio was not great

2) A frightened, panicked "Help me!" is probably not something either TM's or GZ's parents ever heard them scream, so it is likely that the pitch coupled with the distortion would make it difficult for either of them to say whether it was their son, with certainty

3) Both TM's parents and GZ's parents believe their son, during the screams, was the one that did not have the upper hand and was not the aggressor.

4) It stands to reason that both sets of parents, given those three things, would assume that the screams were coming from their own son.

I agree and add my two cents: both parties could have been screaming at different times.

I really don't think we'll ever know for sure, particularly given the FBI's failure to make a conclusion one way or the other, so I say this evidence is a wash.

But by the same token, I don't think it's fair for anyone to state unequivocally that GZ was the one screaming because "John" said so, particularly considering that he now says he is not sure.

 

[claudicici]

Like I said before I hope it is GZ screaming.I hope I didn't hear Trayvon and I hope his parents didn't either.
GZ is a drama queen IMO and his ego was hurt by the booboo Trayvon caused him.I also have no problem believing that Trayvon was on top at one point.
I do however believe the 911 call,the location of the body,the girlfriends statement all prove that IMO without a doubt GZ started the confrontation and Trayvon was standing his ground.Trayvon was obviously in a life threatening situation.His dead body is undeniable prove of that.

 

[RANCH]

Not smm, of course, but I know this: I love my son more than I love anything or anybody. Just as any mother does (except, unfortunately, some that we read about here). I do NOT always recognize his voice when he calls me -- I frequently mistake him for his sister (which he LOVES lol). And I have no confidence at all that I could identify his voice from a tape such as that, and god knows I hope I never have to. But if someone told me that they were going to play me an audio recording of what I knew to be my son's final moments, I might be able to identify his voice, depending on the quality of the tape and what types of sounds were heard. But I am not at all confident that I would be accurate under those circumstances, especially if the audio was poor and the words were unclear. jmo

A while ago my mom called me at work. I happened to be the one who answered the call and identified myself with my first name. My mom then asked me if she could speak to me. I go "hey mom it's me". She didn't recognize my voice. Even moms can make mistakes about the sound of their kids voice. JMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Maybe that is the difference in GZs statements.....clarification.

It might be, and I can't wait to hear them. I am very disappointed learning they are labeled confessions now so we don't know when we will get to hear them.

 

[Isabelle]

TM's dad would not be as sensitive to the sound of TM's voice, since he had not lived in the same home for quite some time. Was TM about 4 or 5 when the dad and mom divorced? And, don't forget, a boy's voice changes, his mom would know if she heard TM's voice. I can say from my own experience that if I hear something that my brain interprets as my son's voice I get an immediate adrenalin rush (he is deceased almost 9 years now) and look all over to find it. Thankfully that hasn't happened more than twice, because I get faint and nauseous.

 

[Reader]

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Two experts reach two very different conclusions

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

.........“There’s gunshots. . . . Just one,” the woman says on the only 911 call to record what was happening in the dark at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated townhouse community in Sanford, Fla., on the night of Feb. 26.

Those recorded 45 seconds turned out to be a recording of the end of Trayvon Martin’s life.
-------

One of those experts is Alan R. Reich, and his answer is that he is certain he can hear a young man he concludes is Martin pleading for his life, from the start of the 45-second recording until the end.

“I’m begging you,” he hears the younger of the two men yell as the recording begins.

Twenty-six seconds later: “Help me.”

In the last second before the gunshot: a high-pitched “Stop!”


More at link....

 

[AJ Noiter]

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Two experts reach two very different conclusions

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

.........“There’s gunshots. . . . Just one,” the woman says on the only 911 call to record what was happening in the dark at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated townhouse community in Sanford, Fla., on the night of Feb. 26.

Those recorded 45 seconds turned out to be a recording of the end of Trayvon Martin’s life.
-------

One of those experts is Alan R. Reich, and his answer is that he is certain he can hear a young man he concludes is Martin pleading for his life, from the start of the 45-second recording until the end.

“I’m begging you,” he hears the younger of the two men yell as the recording begins.

Twenty-six seconds later: “Help me.”

In the last second before the gunshot: a high-pitched “Stop!”


More at link....

Meh, they both sound like "help" to me, even in the enhanced AND with the "power of suggestion" that it's "I'm begging you" and "stop." In fact, in the first one I am not hearing more than, maybe, 2 syllables. How you go from 1-2 syllables to "I'm begging you" is very strange to me.

Note: I do use noise cancelling headphones when listening to audio.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Interesting article on this topic at link:

"Finally, published studies of voice identification under experimental conditions show very high rates of error. Indeed, a report by the National Academy of Sciences on forensic voice identification concluded that the scientific basis for making reliable voice identifications is weak. The FBI, as a result of the report, apparently does not use forensic voice analysis for courtroom evidence, although as with polygraph evidence, it continues to use it for investigative purposes."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bennett-l-gershman/george-zimmerman-screaming_b_1468761.htm

If this article is correct, then at trial we will see some non-expert witnesses testify that it is GZ screaming and others testify that it is TM screaming. Result: draw on this particular issue. JMO MOO etc.

The jurors will make their own determination based on what they each hear, imo.

 

[sleonardelli]

Trayvon Martin case 911 call: Two experts reach two very different conclusions

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

.........“There’s gunshots. . . . Just one,” the woman says on the only 911 call to record what was happening in the dark at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated townhouse community in Sanford, Fla., on the night of Feb. 26.

Those recorded 45 seconds turned out to be a recording of the end of Trayvon Martin’s life.
-------

One of those experts is Alan R. Reich, and his answer is that he is certain he can hear a young man he concludes is Martin pleading for his life, from the start of the 45-second recording until the end.

“I’m begging you,” he hears the younger of the two men yell as the recording begins.

Twenty-six seconds later: “Help me.”

In the last second before the gunshot: a high-pitched “Stop!”


More at link....

I wish I could hear the enhanced audio, but my computer won't let me click on the audio in that report.

 

[Desdemona]

Meh, they both sound like "help" to me, even in the enhanced AND with the "power of suggestion" that it's "I'm begging you" and "stop." In fact, in the first one I am not hearing more than, maybe, 2 syllables. How you go from 1-2 syllables to "I'm begging you" is very strange to me.

Note: I do use noise cancelling headphones when listening to audio.

From the ame article: FBI audio expert countered that the recording is of too poor quality to get anything that definitive, adding that the screaming voice could be from a person aged 17 or 28, either way.

Also, didn't witness "John" speak that night as well? I believe he says he "told 'm to stop" just before retreating back inside and hearing the shot. No idea whether his voice would have been picked up on the recording.

JMO

 

[LambChop]

TM's dad would not be as sensitive to the sound of TM's voice, since he had not lived in the same home for quite some time. Was TM about 4 or 5 when the dad and mom divorced? And, don't forget, a boy's voice changes, his mom would know if she heard TM's voice. I can say from my own experience that if I hear something that my brain interprets as my son's voice I get an immediate adrenalin rush (he is deceased almost 9 years now) and look all over to find it. Thankfully that hasn't happened more than twice, because I get faint and nauseous.

Then there is the fact that some things are just too unbearable to deal with at the time. I listened to the tape and my first thought was how could the parents listen to this without going off the deep end. Even now just seeing what people think was being said is unbearable. One has to think that there will be an expert in court to testify what is being yelled on those tapes and who is doing the yelling. You can't listen to them, thinking that voice COULD be TM and not be affected by it. jmo

 

[BiancaS]

I just read the FBI report from the doc dump about the voice. http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor Page 147-148. I am confused. They apparently were not given the recreation with GZ yelling the same words from the same position. And when they could not find sufficient sound that was not overlapping with the phone conversation, they were told to stop. We have heard the enhanced tape that is just the yelling. Why couldn't the FBI produce the same results. We have heard the enhanced version(s) of the f-ing coons, punks, or goons part and also found them to be clear. Why were they told to stop, have the tapes perhaps been sent to a higher authority (not that I can tell you who that might be)???

 

[BiancaS]

A while ago my mom called me at work. I happened to be the one who answered the call and identified myself with my first name. My mom then asked me if she could speak to me. I go "hey mom it's me". She didn't recognize my voice. Even moms can make mistakes about the sound of their kids voice. JMO.

My kids accuse me of talking on the phone in my "work voice" when they overhear my conversations. I agree that voices do sound different at different times. The person the Orlando Sentinel hired that tested the voice recording (but at that time only had GZ to compare it to, talking in a normal tone), said his system tests the tone and that remains constant. The 48% was, contrary to what some believe, not meaning that he could only be 48% sure it was GZ, but that 48% of the tones matched. He said it should be a much higher percentage if it was the right voice. Apparently we all have some of the same tones, but the higher the percentage of a match, the more likely the voices match.

I am thinking that there is more complete testing that can be done and perhaps is in the process of being done. They need voice samples from both people involved, the "yelling" recreation tape of GZ made the next day, and hopefully some excited recordings of Travyon's voice. I have to believe that there is more testing that can be done that will give us more conclusive results!!

MOO.