The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 11th -12th June - Trial Days 2 & 3 - Week 1

[Snails]

He sent this text to many of us, which I have to say came at some surprise. As my husband and I discussed at the time, if it were either one of us missing, we would out there 24/7, non stop looking, searching, begging, pleading, desperate to find the other, to find the truth, to find answers. We saw none of this in GBC. He sent us away, rejecting our help and many others like us in the community. Ok, maybe he was going to end it with his wife, but for the sake of the girls, would he not want their mother found? Would he not want to get to the bottom of what happened? I guess he already had the answers and we were forced to play it his way....so very very sad. lease:

And why no "please help us find Allison's killer"? All we got was OW stating cryptically during the committal that "the truth will be be revealed." Really? How does OW know this? This is a very bizarre statement IMO

 

[Snails]

Agreed. But what about the screams?

I've thought about the screams that were heard that night too. Most people living in a suburban area would hear a scream (mostly a happy scream) or loud voices from time to time. If the girls were home then they would definitely have heard the screams and would have woken up (if they were as loud as reported). I just can not get the smothering in bed scenario out of my head.

 

[coolcat]

Very good point - I hope this is highlighted by the prosecution. Although i guess GBC could say it was because he thought he would become a suspect because the husband always is, so he was protecting himself, his innocent self. However it is still stupid because surely a medical professional would recognise they weren't made by a razor.

It still doesn't explain the absence of the rest of his family...none of them went to the oval to show support or wait for news, they didn't even take it in turns so the excuse to look after the children instead is not convincing either.
EBC stood on her lawn smiling and greeting visitors and showed rather inappropriate displays of affection to her husband - even yesterday EBC was smiling and not showing remorse the same way she did at Allison's funeral... That woman lacks a moral core... IMO

 

[LadyBird1]

Not sure of your point...A sleepy 8 year old recalling the last moments with her mother...you can bet your bottom dollar that Allison would have gone back in there. This is a girl who trusted her mummy 100%.

Sorry, Forthegirls, need to clarify. The point being, Mummy must have tucked her in because she said she would.
She did not say "Mummy would tuck me in, and she DID tuck me in." Plus little things like, "she said this ..... and she sang that ...."
Subtle difference.
The child expected her mother to tuck her in as promised. Did that actually occur?

Therefore it may NOT be concluded that Allison was there at tuck in time. OMO.

And yes, agree totally, This is a girl who trusted her mummy 100%

 

[they'll get you]

Not so good at posting. Sorry. Feeling nervous and emotional right now as I'm sure we all are.

:grouphug::grouphug:
:grouphug::grouphug:

 

[Tishy]

I keep reminding myself we are only seeing summary tweets and reports from the evidence given. Some of what's discussed in the Court is only heard by people actually there, we're not seeing the word-for-word.

 

[Lazard]

Hi all, I was there in court 11 today, sitting behind GBC, EBC, et all. These are my musings from today:

- in both of the girl's interviews, they were asked separately 'did you write anything on a piece of paper either on the evening of the 19th or the morning of the 20th April' - both said no, I wonder what the significance of this is?
- There was clearly more interviews done with the girls after ABC was found (they accidently played part of it today), wonder if the demeanour will change?
- The oldest daughter noticed and asked GBC on the night of the 19th why he was wearing shoes with his pajamas, his answer was that he was ironing. It seemed surprising to the daughter as she mentioned it in the interview.
- I was surprised that all fingernails were intact though detached that no mention was made by the forensic pathologist that any tests were done on them

More musings to come as I remember the day, so much to take in! I thought that although the crown case seems weak so far, there is a lot more to come. I wonder if GBC will take the stand, would like him to be grilled a la Oscar Pistorius!

 

[possumheart]

It still doesn't explain the absence of the rest of his family...none of them went to the oval to show support or wait for news, they didn't even take it in turns so the excuse to look after the children instead is not convincing either.
EBC stood on her lawn smiling and greeting visitors and showed rather inappropriate displays of affection to her husband - even yesterday EBC was smiling and not showing remorse the same way she did at Allison's funeral... That woman lacks a moral core... IMO

People who don't have a moral core may not choose to be that way. It could be a result of both genetics and socialisation. Sadly they exist. They often become politicians, motivational speakers, marriage enhancement counsellors, life insurance salespeople, vacuum cleaner demonstrators ...

 

[Tishy]

Hi all, I was there in court 11 today, sitting behind GBC, EBC, et all. These are my musings from today:



- in both of the girl's interviews, they were asked separately 'did you write anything on a piece of paper either on the evening of the 19th or the morning of the 20th April' - both said no, I wonder what the significance of this is?

- There was clearly more interviews done with the girls after ABC was found (they accidently played part of it today), wonder if the demeanour will change?

- The oldest daughter noticed and asked GBC on the night of the 19th why he was wearing shoes with his pajamas, his answer was that he was ironing. It seemed surprising to the daughter as she mentioned it in the interview.

- I was surprised that all fingernails were intact though detached that no mention was made by the forensic pathologist that any tests were done on them



More musings to come as I remember the day, so much to take in! I thought that although the crown case seems weak so far, there is a lot more to come. I wonder if GBC will take the stand, would like him to be grilled a la Oscar Pistorius!

From memory it was Const Kellie's statement which originally mentioned the note she found on the kitchen table and set aside; the same statement mentioned the muddy joggers in the wardrobe.
Marlywings are you there?

 

[Lazard]

It still doesn't explain the absence of the rest of his family...none of them went to the oval to show support or wait for news, they didn't even take it in turns so the excuse to look after the children instead is not convincing either.
EBC stood on her lawn smiling and greeting visitors and showed rather inappropriate displays of affection to her husband - even yesterday EBC was smiling and not showing remorse the same way she did at Allison's funeral... That woman lacks a moral core... IMO

and today when the girl's interviews were being played (I was sitting 2 rows behind her and the had to look sideways at the screen to see the video so I could see her face clearly), she was displaying 'crying' actions and emotions, but I did not see one tear, Her performance walking out of the court was Oscar worthy also...

 

[JAM13]

Agreed. But what about the screams?

Those screams could have been anything or anyone. It could be a TV's volume up loud watching a movie, it could be laughing that was mistaken as a scream, it could have been an argument between people (not necessarily between GBC/ABC) or it could have been a female getting scared by something completely random and non sinister.

I'm trying to find the undercover footage of Brett Peter Cowan (Daniel Morcombe killer) when he confessed to the killing to the UC detective and how he killed Daniel.

He explained in the confession that Daniel tried to run away and he grabbed Daniel, grabbed his throat and "before he knew it he was dead". When the UC detective asked him how long it took he said "It didn't seem long".

It could have literally been over within a minute or two with no screams and no noise whatsoever, especially if there was a pillow involved.

 

[marlywings]

I must of missed that they found muddy sneakers.... Where is this information or do you know the link regarding it?

Affidavit of Constable Kellie Thomson:

I located a pair of Adidas running shoes, a pair of brown leather sandals, a pair of Asics size 10 1/2 shoes covered in mud, Puma boots in shoe box, in the bedroom cupboard of Allison and Gerard's.

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Lazard]

Thanks, MarlyWings. I'm sure we'll hear more about this during the trial (ie another attending police officer or two who will attest they didn't dissuade GBC from helping). This will directly contradict what GBC told Wendy - a clear-cut example of dishonesty/deception that will cast a pall on many other pieces of evidence.

With regards to discussion about whether Nigelaine and OW knew from the outset, I honestly believe that while they "knew" (in terms of strongly suspected) and while GBC "knew" that they knew, that discussion ("I did this - help me") probably never took place. Ever. Seems like the sort of family in which everyone intuitively "knew" what needed to be done from here on in, and perhaps they could justify to themselves under the umbrella of "protecting the girls". MOO.

Stupidity breeds stupidity!:scared:

 

[coolcat]

From memory it was Const Kellie's statement which originally mentioned the note she found on the kitchen table and set aside; the same statement mentioned the muddy joggers in the wardrobe.
Marleywings are you there?

I can't find this statement anywhere about shoes or note on table.... How did I miss this? Can someone please put me in the right direction to finding this?
What did the note say?

 

[AAAA]

So as the case builds I wonder if the mud covered shoes were subject to a comparative analysis with the dirt and mud at the Kholo bridge area? if not, why not? Because if they showed a match then it would place him at the Kholo Bridge or nearby. Not sure why this wouldnt have been a much bigger deal so maybe it is not relevant?

I haven't heard about the muddy shoes before. Can someone fill me in please?

 

[Lazard]

Affidavit of Constable Kellie Thomson:

I located a pair of Adidas running shoes, a pair of brown leather sandals, a pair of Asics size 10 1/2 shoes covered in mud, Puma boots in shoe box, in the bedroom cupboard of Allison and Gerard's.

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Wow, I missed this (haven't been on here a while as I have a 17month old daughter, actually I fell pregnant the week Allison went missing and to make matters worse, I share a birthday with GBC and did the same degree at the same uni as him (different years, thank god)!

 

[marlywings]

From memory it was Const Kellie's statement which originally mentioned the note she found on the kitchen table and set aside; the same statement mentioned the muddy joggers in the wardrobe.
Marleywings are you there?

Yes it was Constable Kellie re the note...

As I moved the paper I observed a note that was handwritten which appeared to have been written by a child. I then had a conversation with the defendant about the note which was recorded on the digital recorder and the defendant informed me that the note was written by his daughter S that morning.

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[LadyBird1]

But a suspect of what crime? At that point Allison was only missing.

Good point Radster! No crime at that time, Allison only missing. How could he be a suspect in a Crime? Did he have inside information?
This refers to keeping away from the search. And saying it was because he told to keep away.

 

[Tishy]

I can't find this statement anywhere about shoes or note on table.... How did I miss this? Can someone please put me in the right direction to finding this?

What did the note say?

Cool, I don't think there's been any detail of what the note said yet, just that it was there.

 

[Makara]

Hi all, I was there in court 11 today, sitting behind GBC, EBC, et all. These are my musings from today:

- in both of the girl's interviews, they were asked separately 'did you write anything on a piece of paper either on the evening of the 19th or the morning of the 20th April' - both said no, I wonder what the significance of this is?
- There was clearly more interviews done with the girls after ABC was found (they accidently played part of it today), wonder if the demeanour will change?
- The oldest daughter noticed and asked GBC on the night of the 19th why he was wearing shoes with his pajamas, his answer was that he was ironing. It seemed surprising to the daughter as she mentioned it in the interview.
- I was surprised that all fingernails were intact though detached that no mention was made by the forensic pathologist that any tests were done on them

More musings to come as I remember the day, so much to take in! I thought that although the crown case seems weak so far, there is a lot more to come. I wonder if GBC will take the stand, would like him to be grilled a la Oscar Pistorius!

Thanks for reporting back Lazard. Your input is very much appreciated.

Below is a copy and paste of a post I made recently. It explains about the girls writing something on a piece of paper.

One thing that has intrigued me (well, one of many) is the note Plains Clothes Constable Kellie Thomson mentioned in her statement. Why was this note so important? I hope that it will be included in the trial exhibits.

10. When I walked back into the dining area and sat down at the table where I observed a purse and a number of Suncorp credit cards spread over the table. Below the credit cards was a number of pieces of paper and I moved the paper so as not to place my book on top. As I moved the paper I observed a note that was handwritten which appeared to have been written by a child.

11. I then had a conversation with the defendant about the note which was recorded on the digital recorder and the defendant informed me that the note was written by his daughter Sarah that morning.

12. I then seized the handwritten note.

13. I am able to produce the handwritten note that I seized from the kitchen table of 593 Brookfield Road Brookfield with Property Tag P1200161454. Marked and tendered........

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*


BBM.

According to Kellie Thomson GBC informed her that the note was written by his daughter. Yet both girls have denied this.

I so want to know what that note said!