The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay - Trial Day 1 - 10th June, 2014-Week 1

[Zim]

I did not know Judges in Australia were referred to as 'Your Honour'....

 

[LadyBird1]

I'm a bit confused by differences in the reporting, although both agree about the 4pm hairdresser appointment on the 19th April.

Courier Mail
- no mention of dinner on 19th with best friend
- Alison had "arranged for her daughters to sleep over at a friend’s house that night" but then...
- "one of the Baden-Clay children saw their mother sitting watching television on the night of April 19, 2012"

Brisbane Times
- "She then had dinner with her friend Kerrie-Anne Walker, while Mr Baden-Clay had dinner with his daughters and his parents and sister"
- "Once back home later that evening, Mr and Mrs Baden-Clay put their children to bed between 6.30pm and 7pm"

Might pay to remember that the children received "Debriefing" sessions for a time after their mother disappeared.
Have no idea what those sessions consisted of, (or why they were necessary) but I do feel it possible that their recollections may have been "re-arranged".
Might also pay to remember that the words of GBC should NOT be taken on face value.
The children were in bed between 6.30pm and 7.00pm was reported by whom ...? That doesn't add up to me. For no other reason that: What children go to bed at that time? Plus they were at the BC seniors when GBC was on the phone to TMcH. He brought sausages. Takes time to cook. Then eat. Then drive from there to home.
The witness to the contact with OW per phone was ...? Certainly Allison's phone was used to contact OW as evidenced by phone records. But who dialed?
Of course it is not impossible that Allison did call OW and say words to the effect "Help! Your brother has gone berserk.)
That the children saw their mother sitting watching TV was said by whom?
I hope that the children are allowed to be free with words and not feel threatened by anyone.
May the children have courage strength and wisdom. I wish they could feel the collective love of an extended internet family.

 

[Makara]

I did not know Judges in Australia were referred to as 'Your Honour'....

Yes they are Zim and our magistrates are referred to as 'Your Worship'.

 

[Thinking]

omg! and poor Allison was thrown down there? This is just so horrifying.

I'm convinced the strange marks under GBCs armpits (shown at the committal) is somehow connected to this aspect.

 

[Camp Chair]

Collection of hi-res media images taken outside of court today can be found here on AAP Newswire:

http://multimedia.aapnewswire.com.au/Search.aspx?search=baden-clay&section=newsroom

 

[Fuskier]

2.55pm:

<Snipped>

Mr Fuller said Baden-Clay told the officers his wife was scheduled to have a ``15-minute session&#8217;&#8217; to explain her feelings the night before, which is why arrangements were made for the children to sleep elsewhere on April 19.

2.50pm: Prosecutor Todd Fuller said one of the Baden-Clay children saw their mother sitting watching television on the night of April 19, 2012.

He said the girls woke the following morning to news that their mother was not home.

Mr Fuller said the children&#8217;s father had an injury on his face and he told them he cut himself shaving.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/.../story-fnihsrf2-1226948779375?from=google_rss


BBM: UBM:

So here we are told firstly that Allison was due to have her 15 minute vent with GBC so they had made arrangements for the girls to sleep elsewhere on 19 April.

Then we are told that one of the girls apparently saw their mother sitting on the lounge watching television on the night of the 19 April. But hadn't they all gone to bed between 6:30pm and 7:00pm? Perhaps the girl who saw Allison had gotten up to go to the bathroom.

So confusing!

My understanding of all this is that the prosecution has simply presented to the court what is on record about the case. Basically what the police investigators have handed to the DPP, including the lies GBC has told them. The prosecution in turn will attempt to reveal both the lies and the truth as the trial progresses.

What we've read today is not Gospel IMO.

Agreed. IMO it's just PT evidence presented before the Court which has not been subjected to cross-examination at this stage.
Also let's remember that the three little girls were alleged to have been subjected to 'debriefs' in the crucial days following their mother's disappearance. If their security was tied up with 'debriefs' then this could be confusing for them IMO.

 

[DunnoZo]

Collection of hi-res media images taken outside of court today can be found here on AAP Newswire:

http://multimedia.aapnewswire.com.au/Search.aspx?search=baden-clay&section=newsroom

Peter Shields, yellow tie. Thoughts
Sr. Sgnt Ewen Taylor, yellow tie


and while I'm here, thank you all for all your contributions! you know who you are

 

[Couldbe]

This is what I've always thought ever since first pic of the bridge came up!

Marlywings .... I was in Court (sorry... not that proficient at listening and texting), but I thought that I heard the Prosecution in their opening dissertation say that ... Allison's body displayed two injuries ... possible bruising to her chest and a chipped tooth. In speaking of the the two injuries, he said that they were not consistent with a fall from the bridge. From this statement, I figured that Allison's body was not dropped from the bridge ..... as some injury to her body would have been sustained. JMO

Following body position discussions today, my view is that they may be heading to suggest that Allison's body may have been put into the creek a little further up, and then washed a short distance to its final resting place. JMO

 

[they'll get you]

DEBRIEF!!
Bazaar!

 

[Makara]

4.10pm: Sen-Sgt Taylor said he returned to the Kholo Creek Bridge with a botanist to record plant and botanic features in the area on July 19, 2012.

The jury was shown photographs of Mt Crosby Rd above the bridge, where a group of people were gathered, presumably police, on the day the body was found.

Another photograph showed the path he travelled to get underneath the bridge, a steep, muddy bank leading beneath the pylons from the road above.

He said there was a "quite unsafe’’ 2m drop from the bank to the area where the body was found.

"So once I arrived… there was nothing else in the area," he said.

Sen-Sgt Taylor said the mud on the creek bank was "very difficult to work in".

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226948779375

BBM:

Mmmm, reading this now makes me wonder if GBC did in fact drag Allison's body along that path to that steep, muddy bank underneath the bridge. There is a 2m drop from the bank to the area where Allison was found. Did GBC push Allison's body from that 2m drop. Looking at the photos of where Allison was found, I believe it is possible.

 

[they'll get you]

83 viewers.

 

[LadyBird1]

Marlywings .... I was in Court (sorry... not that proficient at listening and texting), but I thought that I heard the Prosecution in their opening dissertation say that ... Allison's body displayed two injuries ... possible bruising to her chest and a chipped tooth. In speaking of the the two injuries, he said that they were not consistent with a fall from the bridge. From this statement, I figured that Allison's body was not dropped from the bridge ..... as some injury to her body would have been sustained. JMO

Following body position discussions today, my view is that they may be heading to suggest that Allison's body may have been put into the creek a little further up, and then washed a short distance to its final resting place. JMO

G'day Couldbe. Glad you could make it today. Thank you for your good and valued report.
One wonders if Allison was lowered either by her own jumper (stretched out until she was dumped) or by using something like a sheet or a rope.
If parked on the bridge for any length of time, there may be witnesses to say car or cars plural parked there.

 

[Fuskier]

I'm convinced the strange marks under GBCs armpits (shown at the committal) is somehow connected to this aspect.

Agree Thinking. Questions yet unanswered. IMO scouts are taught how to tie several knots and be proficient at rope skills, etc. I have wondered the probability of Allison's body being lowered from the bridge by ropes; securing the rope around ones shoulder could help guide a load down in a certain direction. Another consideration is that if the police needed tethering, then a person on the slope that night may have needed to be securely tethered to prevent an accident in the dark. My opinion only.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

A few things I am grappling with:-
So Allison leaves hairdresser at 6pm to have dinner with Kerryanne? How does she then get back in less than one hour to put kids to bed at 6:30 to 7pm? That seems a short meeting with a good friend?????
Olivia is the last person to speak with Allison - how can we put any credos into her recount of the conversation she had with her sister-in-law?
I really wouldn’t think GBC's razor testing for blood would be significant. Couldn’t he just hold it under the tap till all the gunk was cleaned out? Is that really something of significance?

IMO, it is significant, all his razors should have been bagged and tagged and tested lease:. There would be enough traces of blood from such large cuts (if it were true), that look like finger nail drag marks. .

GBC could have lied that he threw it away if it was a disposable though and it was probably bin night. Ugh. His shirt probably disappeared too. jmo

 

[Tishy]

G'day Couldbe. Glad you could make it today. Thank you for your good and valued report.
One wonders if Allison was lowered either by her own jumper (stretched out until she was dumped) or by using something like a sheet or a rope.
If parked on the bridge for any length of time, there may be witnesses to say car or cars plural parked there.

Don't forget the muddy size 10.5 joggers found in the wardrobe by Const Kellie (refer statement).
IMO stuffed into car then dragged by jumper down to final place under bridge.
:,(

 

[marlywings]

Marlywings .... I was in Court (sorry... not that proficient at listening and texting), but I thought that I heard the Prosecution in their opening dissertation say that ... Allison's body displayed two injuries ... possible bruising to her chest and a chipped tooth. In speaking of the the two injuries, he said that they were not consistent with a fall from the bridge. From this statement, I figured that Allison's body was not dropped from the bridge ..... as some injury to her body would have been sustained. JMO

Following body position discussions today, my view is that they may be heading to suggest that Allison's body may have been put into the creek a little further up, and then washed a short distance to its final resting place. JMO

From autopsy report....

There are no injuries typical of what is seen when a body is being washed around in moving water.

I partially observed the body from the bridge

As the body was found below a bridge reported to be 14m high, injuries from a fall from a height need to be considered as a possible cause of death. As she was found directly underneath the bridge there would have to have been some movement of the body after impact with the ground or water. This possibly could have been by herself, by another person or by the tide.

With a fall from such a height I would expect injuries to have been identified at post-mortem examination if the fall was onto the ground. However, if the fall was onto water the degree of injury could be less. If there had been a fall into water, this could have predisposed her to drowning.

 

[marlywings]

Sen-Sgt Taylor said the mud on the creek bank was "very difficult to work in".

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226948779375

BBM:

Mmmm, reading this now makes me wonder if GBC did in fact drag Allison's body along that path to that steep, muddy bank underneath the bridge. There is a 2m drop from the bank to the area where Allison was found. Did GBC push Allison's body from that 2m drop. Looking at the photos of where Allison was found, I believe it is possible.

The mud being "very difficult to work in"....this was not long after the huge deluge of rain, so I imagine the banks wouldn't have been quite so muddy when Allison was placed there the week before the rain event.

 

[Hillsdon]

Thanks for the updates, we seem to have waited so long for this day, and I almost missed it.
I appreciate the updates as it's getting harder to follow the Aus papers now that many have placed a limit as to how many free articles one can view.
There are so many questions to be answered still, am very impressed at how quickly the first day moved.

Hi KiwiJane, you may like to follow the Brisbane newspaper "Brisbane Times" they don't have a pay wall.

 

[coolcat]

A few things I am grappling with:-
So Allison leaves hairdresser at 6pm to have dinner with Kerryanne? How does she then get back in less than one hour to put kids to bed at 6:30 to 7pm? That seems a short meeting with a good friend?????
Olivia is the last person to speak with Allison - how can we put any credos into her recount of the conversation she had with her sister-in-law?
I really wouldn’t think GBC's razor testing for blood would be significant. Couldn’t he just hold it under the tap till all the gunk was cleaned out? Is that really something of significance?

There was no blood cause he didn't cut himself shaving .... He would have to scrub the razor for it not to show any trace.

 

[Thinking]

The poor police officer that fell and dislocated his shoulder and that was in daylight. This makes me even more convinced that Allison was thrown from the bridge and not carried down there in the middle of the night.

Poor fellow. I agree Ali.

Also, we have never heard of GBCs shoes being examined in relation to that night have we?