The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay - Trial Day 1 - 10th June, 2014-Week 1

[MsAnais]

Phew! Just caught up. Fabulous work with all the tweets and news updates. It feels so surreal reading things that are only now being reported but that many of us were privy to a while back. But starting to get the sense all those unanswered questions will be answered as the trial goes on.

Definitely seems like they are saying Allison's body was found where it was left. But I am a bit puzzled about whether she was thrown/dropped from the bridge (more likely) or did GBC with/without help venture down into the mud. I doubt this second version.

Also interesting timeline for that night - my heart breaks thinking the girls could have been home, but I also wonder if that is actually true. Can't wait to see if the prosecution try to tear this to shreds, or if the girls were there and heard something. As Isis would be able to confirm, if those girls were coached or 'debriefed' there will be tell-tale patterns to their recounts of the night - the professionals will see straight through it. Stories that are too perfect are just that....stories.

Thank you thank you thank you everyone for all the posts. Just wish I could stay home each day and watch it all unfold live. I'll be living vicariously through you all in the next few weeks.

And just because I'm feeling naughty tonight, this is for you GBC... :behind:

Yay Strangeworld!!:loveyou: Great to see you again!!

And yes, I completely agree with you - any trained professional can indeed see through the testimony of a child who is coached. Body language/facial expression alone says alot, let alone the practised and perfected words a coached child speaks :seeya:

 

[MsAnais]

If a bloke really truly woke up early in the morning, noted his wife was missing and then decided he needed a shave ...
Nah, try again. (That looks a bit dopey):
Why would a bloke even bother about shaving when he realized that something was amiss? His wife was seriously absent.
As a matter of priorities, where does a morning facial SHAVE fit in?

:goodpost:

Fabulous - and important - point you make, LadyBird1

 

[Trooper]

A huge and heartfelt thankyou to those who frantically posted tweets, reports , links .. all the comments.. on the road all day, but quite calm about that knowing that ye faithful ones would post and post and post..


Jury selection.. I am pleased with the male female ratio on this jury.. . Gerard's financial and sexual incompetence will be judged by his peers, and this is satisfying to me... .. I'd bet they will be harsher on Gerard and Toni on both those factors, no free pass to either of them from this jury, I'm certain.. Gerard and Toni were faced with a very ordinary problem, a common one ,if statistics are correct ,.. but Gerard chose this particular avenue of resolving it, and then lied and lied and lied, and lied with the same incompetency, which is why he is sitting in the dock as an accused murderer.

 

[sosocurious]

Kate Kyriacou@KateKyriacou · 43s

Fuller: A single level residence with a carport. The rear of the house had a paved area. Take note of the particular foliage around there.

Maybe they found evidence of that particular foliage in the car.
I am wondering if all this occured earlier and Allison was left out back on the pavers, and the cover up began.
What time what scraps the dog barking?

 

[coolcat]

Just trying to catch up.... Sorry if this has been asked before but just curious to know who the woman was that yelled at GBC at the last hearing.... Is she significant to the trial or a potential witness because from memory she yelled something about not loving him anymore is this one of the 3 women he had a dalliance with?

 

[Hillsdon]

Maybe they found evidence of that particular foliage in the car.
I am wondering if all this occured earlier and Allison was left out back on the pavers, and the cover up began.
What time what scraps the dog barking?

I believe the foliage was found in ABC's hair.

 

[alicat]

Hi guys,

So the time has finally come - let's hope justice is done and Allison's loved ones get some answers and closure.

I was reading about the police officer who slipped and dislocated his shoulder while trying to get under Kholo Creek Bridge. Before the 2011 floods there was often fisherman at this location but not so much anymore.

I have found a rainfall capture of Karalee (which is just down the road) and found the following:

Day Mms in rainfall
16 8.8
17 1
18 0.1
19 0.4 (Allison goes missing)
20 0.4
21 0
22 0
23 0
24 0
25 0.2
26 0
27 0
28 32.8
29 50.4
30 1.6 (Allison is found)


So, looking at these details the terrain would have been a LOT different when Allison was left at Kholo Creek to when she was found. Perhaps Allison was dragged under rather than tossed over the bridge. I guess it depends on how risky GBC was feeling - throwing over is a lot faster than dragging her down underneath.

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone apart from me think that he might get away with this?

Sincerely hope not - bit I just get that feeling he will.

Nope,, I don't think for one moment he will get away with it . . that's both charges...

A woman in the prime of her life is found dead 14 klms from home , under a bridge. The last person to set eyes on her is her husband, who , coincidentally, has put in writing, via emails etc, that he wants out of this marriage, has even set a deadline, with a promise on it, has strung along a mistress for 3 years with that promise, has managed to utterly run himself into and under the ground fiscally, and others along with him, with no way possible out of paying these due bills, with no collateral on this earth, and at a dead end. ... ...with an unwanted wife with a collection of life insurance policies on her.

And since this woman, in the prime of her life, didn't walk herself in the dark, 14 klms, to the place she was eventually found,, it is logical to presume someone, a living someone put her body there. There is only one person who would want to do that. Who needs to do that. Who actually believes it was ok to do that, and that lies would cover it.

so noooooooo .. I truly don't think he has a prayer of getting away with it. . He couldn't even get bail on his story.

 

[coolcat]

A huge and heartfelt thankyou to those who frantically posted tweets, reports , links .. all the comments.. on the road all day, but quite calm about that knowing that ye faithful ones would post and post and post..


Jury selection.. I am pleased with the male female ratio on this jury.. . Gerard's financial and sexual incompetence will be judged by his peers, and this is satisfying to me... .. I'd bet they will be harsher on Gerard and Toni on both those factors, no free pass to either of them from this jury, I'm certain.. Gerard and Toni were faced with a very ordinary problem, a common one ,if statistics are correct ,.. but Gerard chose this particular avenue of resolving it, and then lied and lied and lied, and lied with the same incompetency, which is why he is sitting in the dock as an accused murderer.

I'm still not convinced TM didn't know something ... If not encouraged it. If she had nothing to hide then why delete emails and be deceptive with the police in the initial stages. She seemed very crazed and infatuated with GBC from reports that I wouldn't put it past her to have planted the seed or some way helped in Allison's demise? IMO

 

[missfisher]

I think it might have been a "heat of the moment" murder during a heated and physical argument. Everything after that was a desperate game of catchup. Babysitting arranged for the girls, and a frantic trip out to the bridge. The body heaved unceremoniously over the bridge ASAP in an attempt to set the scene for a suicide (maybe?) and home to prepare for the police in the morning. I wonder if the plan was to leave the car at the bridge to strengthen the suicide theory, but the blood in the back
caused a rethink?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

From autopsy report....

There are no injuries typical of what is seen when a body is being washed around in moving water.

I partially observed the body from the bridge

As the body was found below a bridge reported to be 14m high, injuries from a fall from a height need to be considered as a possible cause of death. As she was found directly underneath the bridge there would have to have been some movement of the body after impact with the ground or water. This possibly could have been by herself, by another person or by the tide.

With a fall from such a height I would expect injuries to have been identified at post-mortem examination if the fall was onto the ground. However, if the fall was onto water the degree of injury could be less. If there had been a fall into water, this could have predisposed her to drowning.

red bbm
If I remember right, then A. had no water in her lungs. Otherwise the (last) cause of death had been determined and not only expressed as "not a natural death".

 

[coolcat]

Hi guys,

So the time has finally come - let's hope justice is done and Allison's loved ones get some answers and closure.

I was reading about the police officer who slipped and dislocated his shoulder while trying to get under Kholo Creek Bridge. Before the 2011 floods there was often fisherman at this location but not so much anymore.

I have found a rainfall capture of Karalee (which is just down the road) and found the following:

Year Month Day Mms in rainfall
2012 4 13 1.3
2012 4 14 1.4
2012 4 15
2012 4 16 8.8
2012 4 17 1
2012 4 18 0.1
2012 4 19 0.4 (Allison went missing)
2012 4 20 0.4
2012 4 21 0
2012 4 22 0
2012 4 23 0
2012 4 24 0
2012 4 25 0.2
2012 4 26 0
2012 4 27 0
2012 4 28 32.8
2012 4 29 50.4
2012 4 30 1.6 (Allison was found)

So, looking at these details the terrain would have been a LOT different when Allison was left at Kholo Creek to when she was found. Perhaps Allison was dragged under rather than tossed over the bridge. I guess it depends on how risky GBC was feeling - throwing over is a lot faster than dragging her down underneath.

Was it possible to have rolled Allison down the embankment?

 

[sosocurious]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · now
Sen Const Huth checked under the house and the carport area for blood but found none. #badenclay
ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 0 times FavoriteFavorited 0 times

What about the back of the house - pavers - follage ?

 

[coolcat]

Nope,, I don't think for one moment he will get away with it . . that's both charges...

A woman in the prime of her life is found dead 14 klms from home , under a bridge. The last person to set eyes on her is her husband, who , coincidentally, has put in writing, via emails etc, that he wants out of this marriage, has even set a deadline, with a promise on it, has strung along a mistress for 3 years with that promise, has managed to utterly run himself into and under the ground fiscally, and others along with him, with no way possible out of paying these due bills, with no collateral on this earth, and at a dead end. ... ...with an unwanted wife with a collection of life insurance policies on her.

And since this woman, in the prime of her life, didn't walk herself in the dark, 14 klms, to the place she was eventually found,, it is logical to presume someone, a living someone put her body there. There is only one person who would want to do that. Who needs to do that. Who actually believes it was ok to do that, and that lies would cover it.

so noooooooo .. I truly don't think he has a prayer of getting away with it. . He couldn't even get bail on his story.

I haven't once seen a report or a statement from GBC or his family that Allison's "real" killer is still on the loose and they have the wrong man.... If they were convinced that GBC was innocent wouldn't they try and convince the powers that be that they should be looking for someone else or at least have a plausible reason for who the murderer is if it's not GBC?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Poor fellow. I agree Ali.

Also, we have never heard of GBCs shoes being examined in relation to that night have we?

If GBC was there, then his shoes and his clothing would have been muddy. Could it be, OW had disposed of all?

 

[coolcat]

I think it might have been a "heat of the moment" murder during a heated and physical argument. Everything after that was a desperate game of catchup. Babysitting arranged for the girls, and a frantic trip out to the bridge. The body heaved unceremoniously over the bridge ASAP in an attempt to set the scene for a suicide (maybe?) and home to prepare for the police in the morning. I wonder if the plan was to leave the car at the bridge to strengthen the suicide theory, but the blood in the back
caused a rethink?

I think it was planned the minute he picked up the phone to the insurance company in the days leading up to her murder. This is to coincidental... IMO

 

[Spectator]

My first post but have read every word from the start of this case. I grew up in the western suburbs and have driven over the Kholo bridge a countless number of times and have some thoughts on how Allison came to be where she was found. From the photo's that area under the bridge would generally be dry ground as the river sits fairly low under there unless there has been big rainfall which was the case prior to the discovery from canoeist. Remembering that the Geo cache (think that is the correct terminology) was located under the bridge and people had documented that they had accessed the area on foot to get to it suggests that perhaps the rain had hindered the police efforts to get under the bridge but that may not have been the case when Allison was murdered. The Kholo bridge is not somewhere you would want to park your car regardless of the time of night/early morning. Once a shift worker I have passed over that bridge at all hours and while it is a low traffic area at those night/early morning times it is by no means a deserted road. Prior to the tragic death of Allison the speed limit on that section of road was 80km/hr and you certainly wouldn't want your car parked on the bridge in minimal light with the possibility of oncoming traffic doing that speed. It is a narrow two lane bridge and would be a risk to either park on it or stand on it to dispose of a body. It's my opinion that her body would have been dragged/lifted to the final resting spot under dryer condition than those under which it was found and the car parked off to the side of the road with the protection of thicker folage than what is currently there. I guess it's just a matter of waiting to hear more evidence there is a long road ahead but finally the process has started!!

 

[Trooper]

I hope this is the right place to post this- I have been wondering about Gerald's financial position. If he had kept going, (with the family intact), does it seem likely that he could have eventually paid off all the loans? How did he get in to so much debt? (I understand the floods interrupted the business, but is that the only reason?) If he and Alison had separated, could he have sold the business, and used the proceeds from that to start paying off the loans? Would she have been liable for some of the debt in that situation?

good questions and this is a common situation .. that is, it isn't rare, lots of people get into this kind of blind alley, ... throwing in a mistress with a deadline adds an extra jolt of horror to it, but its not a unique situation that Gerard found himself in.. it wasn't an overnight thing, either. It took him a few years to dig himself into this ever deepening hole... he lost money, borrowed money and threw it at a losing business, and not once, but over and over again. Bigger losses, bigger borrowings, bigger debts and bigger interest. A lot of these debts were all due around the same time, too.. that is , the entire amount.. not just the payment and interest due, but the amount borrowed.

He lost money by being overconfident, and extended and enlarged his franchise ,.. riding on the friable success of one years trading, as I read it from the little bit the forensic accountant testified to at his committal , he rode on when the thing began to collapse. At this point, he borrowed big, from various sources, perhaps he didn't believe the downturn would gain momentum.. but it did.

Gerard just didn't seem capable of recognising this trajectory. Herein lies his incompetency .

If he and Alison separated, he would have been adjudged responsible for child support, but some men take that way out by declaring themselves bankrupt and unemployed.. . there is no doubt Gerard could have taken this road.. there is provision in the law for this.. of course, it then exposes Gerards status.. a bankrupt, an unemployable and unborrowable bankrupt, and perhaps this was too much for this particular ego to contemplate..

 

[Humdinger]

I think it was planned the minute he picked up the phone to the insurance company in the days leading up to her murder. This is to coincidental... IMO

A lot of these type if phone calls are recorded 'for training purposes', I wonder if his were? I wonder how he sounded and what type if questions he asked?

 

[LadyBird1]

I think it might have been a "heat of the moment" murder during a heated and physical argument. Everything after that was a desperate game of catchup. Babysitting arranged for the girls, and a frantic trip out to the bridge. The body heaved unceremoniously over the bridge ASAP in an attempt to set the scene for a suicide (maybe?) and home to prepare for the police in the morning. I wonder if the plan was to leave the car at the bridge to strengthen the suicide theory, but the blood in the back
caused a rethink?

Agree with you partially missfisher: in-so-much: that that it was a heat of the moment argument" that went out of control.
Having said that, there a number of "things" that cause the word "pre-meditated" to spring to mind.