The December 23 party

[otg]

otg,
I've never seen Fleet White confirm that stuff about him trying to get medicine to a hospital for his mother?

Why would he wait till he was in someone else's house to arrange this?

if Susan Stine answers the door, then Patsy can deny whatever at a later date?

.

Exactly, my friend. :thumb:

 

[DeDee]

Gingerbread Decorating Party with Nine Children (although I can only ID five of them)

Susan Stine is on the right side with short hair and wearing glasses. The white bowl that appears to be empty is the famous pineapple bowl.

This shows the black velvet dress JBR wore that evening. This may have been one of the first photos taken as the children look fresh and excited for the evening ahead. JonBenet's smile appears to be one made for the sake of the photograph.

Compare JonBenet's pallor in this image. She looks very tired. Her smile seems to be just only for the camera.

 

[singularity]

2) Patsy Ramsey had used the Barnhills' oven to bake a ham while she roasted a turkey in hers. – It's noted elsewhere that Patsy catered this party so Betty Barnhill could be mistaken. Patsy had a double oven in her kitchen. I don't believe Patsy baked a ham at the Barnhills for this event. It could have been some other. Does anyone had an alternate reference that either dismisses the statement or collaborates it?
3) There were lots of their friends from the Episcopal Church there.... The Ramseys had a party on the 13th for the church group. There were about 60 members in her house at that time. Is Betty getting the party on the 13th confused with the party on the 23rd?

If you can recall any of these issues, please comment or point me in the right direction.

Thanks

Interesting observations. When Patsy is talking(briefly) about the party on the 13th, she mentioned chicken wings and rolls(no turkey and ham) and how nobody brought food. I doubt that specific party is being mixed up with the 23rd.

I also have a hard time picturing Patsy as Betty Crocker at the Barnhills.

Possible there was a more obscure party they were involved in?

 

[DeDee]

<SRBM>


Personally, I don’t have any doubts about surmising it was Susan Stine (considering some of her other exploits), or that she didn’t bother even opening the door. I do still have doubts about the reason for the call being a misdialed number resulting from Fleet White trying to get medicine to a hospital for his mother. Were his sources for getting medication really better than the sources at a hospital? That just really makes no sense to me, and it has never been confirmed by the Whites or anyone else.

This police call and JonBenet stating that she didn't feel pretty are the two most intriguing facts of the Dec 23 party. Well, coupled with the last minute plan to host the impromptu party is also interesting.

We are not privy to any data imparted by FW in his Wolf depo so I'm not even sure that he was questioned about the call. My understanding of his testimony is that he did not recall any events, even though, he took notes on the morning of Dec 26, his memory failed him during depositions. FW is an important witness to the investigation. His public silence is not understood.

 

[root661]

When I came across BlueCrab's posts I was very impressed.

I was very impressed by his thinking "outside of the box", his intense investigations into certain aspects of the case but more importantly
it was evident in all of his posts that he cared deeply about little JonBenet and wanted answers and justice for her.

I only wish I had known BlueCrab. What a great contribution he made to these threads!

Does anyone know what happened to BlueCrab? I found BlueCrab very informative. If BlueCrab is using a different name now or posting on another site, I would appreciate someone letting me know.

 

[UKGuy]

Does anyone know what happened to BlueCrab? I found BlueCrab very informative. If BlueCrab is using a different name now or posting on another site, I would appreciate someone letting me know.

root661,
BlueCrab was allegedly traced online by private investigators and warned off the case.

Some think he worked for or had contacts inside BPD? So if he is continuing to post it's likely to be on another site and anonymously.

.

 

[David Rogers]

root661,
BlueCrab was allegedly traced online by private investigators and warned off the case.

Some think he worked for or had contacts inside BPD? So if he is continuing to post it's likely to be on another site and anonymously.

.

I don’t see what difference it makes what is leaked. No DA is going to prosecute. The only reason not to release anything even anonymously is to protect a minor. If it’s not Burke why not release the phone records or other info.

 

[UKGuy]

I don’t see what difference it makes what is leaked. No DA is going to prosecute. The only reason not to release anything even anonymously is to protect a minor. If it’s not Burke why not release the phone records or other info.

David Rogers,
Burke Ramsey is entitled to anonymity i.e. not being publicly linked with the case as per Colorado Child Statutes due entirely to his age and not to whether he engaged in criminal conduct.

So the case could be JDI and Burke Ramsey will still not be linked with JonBenet's death, etc.

This is despite the case being so famous nearly everyone knows the names of those involved.

.

 

[David Rogers]

David Rogers,
Burke Ramsey is entitled to anonymity i.e. not being publicly linked with the case as per Colorado Child Statutes due entirely to his age and not to whether he engaged in criminal conduct.

So the case could be JDI and Burke Ramsey will still not be linked with JonBenet's death, etc.

This is despite the case being so famous nearly everyone knows the names of those involved.

.

This has to be one of the best kept secrets in the US. Look at all the people at the trial, jurists, reporters, bailiff, staff, lawyers and almost nothing has come out. You can go to a flea market get a phone or computer with WiFi, hit up any free internet site and upload anything. Non traceable yet no one has done it. Right there rules out Patsy doing it all. Someone else is involved.

 

[UKGuy]

This has to be one of the best kept secrets in the US. Look at all the people at the trial, jurists, reporters, bailiff, staff, lawyers and almost nothing has come out. You can go to a flea market get a phone or computer with WiFi, hit up any free internet site and upload anything. Non traceable yet no one has done it. Right there rules out Patsy doing it all. Someone else is involved.

David Rogers,
Sure, yet there is no apparent smoking gun. Any untracable claims would have to provide one, beyond all doubt.

For most folks the nuances of the BDI theory would be lost on them, e.g. what was the color of the pajamas bottoms that BR wore to bed Christmas Eve and night?

Confirming this color was the same as the Fecally Soiled pajama bottoms found on JonBenet's bedroom floor would, for me anyway, signal Burke Ramsey was in JonBenet's bedroom the night she died.

The GJ True Bills blow the Ramsey's claims regarding IDI out of the water.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

David Rogers,
Sure, yet there is no apparent smoking gun. Any untracable claims would have to provide one, beyond all doubt.

For most folks the nuances of the BDI theory would be lost on them, e.g. what was the color of the pajamas bottoms that BR wore to bed Christmas Eve and night?

Confirming this color was the same as the Fecally Soiled pajama bottoms found on JonBenet's bedroom floor would, for me anyway, signal Burke Ramsey was in JonBenet's bedroom the night she died.

The GJ True Bills blow the Ramsey's claims regarding IDI out of the water.

.

UKGuy,
Let’s not forget about the pineapple as a contributing factor. BR fingerprints are on the glass and the bowl. There are no lip prints on the drinking glass and it is dry?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Let’s not forget about the pineapple as a contributing factor. BR fingerprints are on the glass and the bowl. There are no lip prints on the drinking glass and it is dry?

Rain on my Parade,
You are correct, but the fingerprints are not date stamped whereas Burke Ramsey's pajama bottoms are.

Much more significant than his prints on the glass, i.e. could just be innocent noise, is his touch-dna deposited on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown left in the wine-cellar.

This links him directly to JonBenet via her bloodstains and indirectly to the wine-cellar, i.e. the gown should simply not be there at all!

So although you can dream up causal chains of reasoning to explain it all away it does seem to implicate Burke Ramsey.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
You are correct, but the fingerprints are not date stamped whereas Burke Ramsey's pajama bottoms are.

Much more significant than his prints on the glass, i.e. could just be innocent noise, is his touch-dna deposited on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown left in the wine-cellar.

This links him directly to JonBenet via her bloodstains and indirectly to the wine-cellar, i.e. the gown should simply not be there at all!

So although you can dream up causal chains of reasoning to explain it all away it does seem to implicate Burke Ramsey.

.

UKGuy,
I don’t know? The glass is out of place, it’s dry and the tea bag hasn’t been properly used to satisfy a cup of.
Tying the fingerprints on the bowl and glass to what is found in JB’s intestine; it is significant to me. Perhaps the pineapple was eaten before the White’s party. The timing in questionable but then ... I always go back to this:
BR interview 1/8/97 and his reaction when the doctor takes a drink of his coke. Body language speaks volumes in this case.

Yes, PR and both BR touch dna were found on the Barbie nightgown as well as on the long John’s.
JB shouldn’t be wearing BR’s thermals nor should his touch dna be on the thermals if as they said JB was zonked out asleep upon arriving home that dreadful night.

So although you can dream up causal chains of reasoning to explain it all away it does seem to implicate Burke Ramsey.

Yes, yes it does implicate him.
We do not know that MO is a casual chain of reasoning implicating BR. Perhaps this was part of the firecracker that lite Burke up that day. JB grabbing a piece of pineapple out of his bowl with her grubby little fingers. Perhaps he thought she used hers the same way he used his?

 

[887sMtreme]

Some people have theorized during the years that the 911 call was a practice run, so to speak, to see how fast the police would come to the Ramsey house.

It was thought of as an "odd" coincidence at the start of the case. All these years later, it still seems odd.

That has never made sense to me. It was at the wrong time of night, on a less than “reduced staff” day, with a crowd at the house. Not a good setup for a dry run.

And while I’m at it, if the doorbell rang while I was having a party and a policeman was at the door, I would assume someone in the neighborhood was complaining about noise or one of my guests’ cars might be blocking someone’s driveway. To dismiss him as if he were a servant no longer required was rude, yes, but to more than just the policeman. SS must have known that someone called 911 and that the incident was either a mistake — not one most adults make unless terribly drunk — or real. Maybe a kid did it to get attention (“I don’t feel pretty”) or not. It remains peculiar in any event that the police don’t seem to have had a recording to help solve the mystery of who called and if they said anything.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I don’t know? The glass is out of place, it’s dry and the tea bag hasn’t been properly used to satisfy a cup of.
Tying the fingerprints on the bowl and glass to what is found in JB’s intestine; it is significant to me. Perhaps the pineapple was eaten before the White’s party. The timing in questionable but then ... I always go back to this:
BR interview 1/8/97 and his reaction when the doctor takes a drink of his coke. Body language speaks volumes in this case.

Yes, PR and both BR touch dna were found on the Barbie nightgown as well as on the long John’s.
JB shouldn’t be wearing BR’s thermals nor should his touch dna be on the thermals if as they said JB was zonked out asleep upon arriving home that dreadful night.


Yes, yes it does implicate him.
We do not know that MO is a casual chain of reasoning implicating BR. Perhaps this was part of the firecracker that lite Burke up that day. JB grabbing a piece of pineapple out of his bowl with her grubby little fingers. Perhaps he thought she used hers the same way he used his?

Rain on my Parade,

I don’t know? The glass is out of place, it’s dry and the tea bag hasn’t been properly used to satisfy a cup of.
Tying the fingerprints on the bowl and glass to what is found in JB’s intestine; it is significant to me. Perhaps the pineapple was eaten before the White’s party.

Pineapple is one of the quickest foods for your body to digest, as its mainly composed of water. I've seen 20 minutes as a rough estimate for it pass through your body.

It might be quicker in a young child as their metabolism is faster than an adults.

So eating the pineapple prior to the White's party is unlikely, anyway if it was the case, why did the parents not use this as an alibi for the pineapple being present?

Really the presence of the pineapple and its passage through the digestive tract, i.e. still ongoing, bookends JonBenet's assault period.

With JonBenet's hair dressed with hair-ties and in ponytails, must mean she was readied for bed by Patsy, this along with the pineapple snack seems like a pretty normal domestic event.

What follows was obviously not. There are three possible scenarios, but the one that has its focus on JonBenet's bedroom is the most probable.

The glass might simply have been employed as somewhere to deposit the teabag once used to make tea in a cup?

Burke whacking JonBenet because she stole his pineapple is mickey-mouse cartoon screenplay stuff. That never happened.

If it had, Patsy would have dialled 911 on the spot, or had John take JonBenet direct to the nearest health facility, no expense spared, as they had the $$.

The usual MO for blunt force trauma is a premeditated sexual assault, just think about Ted Bundy, he used various items to hand, including rocks, then evolving into wearing fake plaster casts.

Nobody in the Ramsey household needed to use that kind of violence, it was just not required.

IMO JonBenet was being abused, remember she was a victim in her own house, with no means of escape, what was happening to her might even have become normalised?

On the night of her death I think she refused to play ball, possibly even threatening to disclose what was taking place, this is what I reckon lit the fuse?

Burke Ramsey is linked to the breakfast-bar via his fingerprints on the items present and to the wine-cellar via his touch-dna on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown, discounting his Hi-Tec footprint and penknife.

What this means is we cannot rule Burke Ramsey out.

.

 

[UKGuy]

That has never made sense to me. It was at the wrong time of night, on a less than “reduced staff” day, with a crowd at the house. Not a good setup for a dry run.

And while I’m at it, if the doorbell rang while I was having a party and a policeman was at the door, I would assume someone in the neighborhood was complaining about noise or one of my guests’ cars might be blocking someone’s driveway. To dismiss him as if he were a servant no longer required was rude, yes, but to more than just the policeman. SS must have known that someone called 911 and that the incident was either a mistake — not one most adults make unless terribly drunk — or real. Maybe a kid did it to get attention (“I don’t feel pretty”) or not. It remains peculiar in any event that the police don’t seem to have had a recording to help solve the mystery of who called and if they said anything.

887sMtreme,
Seems like Patsy asked Susan Stine to deal with the responding officer while she dealt with whatever was going on, otherwise why did she not answer the door?

So its either something innocuous such as the children playing with the phone, or something serious took place which Patsy attempted to defuse?

Placed in the context of JonBenet being abused, it was the holiday period, and we have evidence of JonBenet's chronic abuse, so this instance might have been another example, with Christmas Eve and Christmas Day yet to arrive.

Any kid dialling 911 can then repeat the exercise when they return back home.

Kids back then would not dial 911, that's an adult response, kids would speak to someone they feel they can trust?

IMO the red flag here is Susan Stine, why does she need to front up for Patsy, does she have skin in the game?

.

 

[David Rogers]

That has never made sense to me. It was at the wrong time of night, on a less than “reduced staff” day, with a crowd at the house. Not a good setup for a dry run.

And while I’m at it, if the doorbell rang while I was having a party and a policeman was at the door, I would assume someone in the neighborhood was complaining about noise or one of my guests’ cars might be blocking someone’s driveway. To dismiss him as if he were a servant no longer required was rude, yes, but to more than just the policeman. SS must have known that someone called 911 and that the incident was either a mistake — not one most adults make unless terribly drunk — or real. Maybe a kid did it to get attention (“I don’t feel pretty”) or not. It remains peculiar in any event that the police don’t seem to have had a recording to help solve the mystery of who called and if they said anything.

I’m under the theory that the call was real but the caller was talked out of completing the call. Fleet White as far as I can find has never confirmed or denied he made the call. That alone makes me believe he started the call.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

With JonBenet's hair dressed with hair-ties and in ponytails, must mean she was readied for bed by Patsy, this along with the pineapple snack seems like a pretty normal domestic event.

UKGuy,
If as the R’s reported JB was zonked out upon arrival home that evening, it makes little sense that PR would be fiddling with her hair.

What follows was obviously not. There are three possible scenarios, but the one that has its focus on JonBenet's bedroom is the most probable.

I believe you are basing YO on the soiled pajama pants found in JB bedroom. I have reviewed the videos and just don’t see any pj pants on her bedroom floor. Part of her outfit that she wore to the White’s party are there beside her doll house w/her boots. Why would PR put her cloths there?

The glass might simply have been employed as somewhere to deposit the teabag once used to make tea in a cup?

In review the tea bag as not been submerged enough to produce a cup of tea.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Burke whacking JonBenet because she stole his pineapple is mickey-mouse cartoon screenplay stuff. That never happened.

How do you know for certain what happened? We know he had an OCD with sharing his drink; why not his food?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

If it had, Patsy would have dialled 911 on the spot, or had John take JonBenet direct to the nearest health facility, no expense spared, as they had the $$.

The usual MO for blunt force trauma is a premeditated sexual assault, just think about Ted Bundy, he used various items to hand, including rocks, then evolving into wearing fake plaster casts.

Nobody in the Ramsey household needed to use that kind of violence, it was just not required.

UKGuy,
Yet, they used this type of violence!

IMO JonBenet was being abused, remember she was a victim in her own house, with no means of escape, what was happening to her might even have become normalised?

On the night of her death I think she refused to play ball, possibly even threatening to disclose what was taking place, this is what I reckon lit the fuse?

Being a victim myself of abuse, sure she could have said I’m not taking this anymore; I’m telling. But the problem here is thus: JB is 6 years old. Had the perpetrator been her father she would not be able to process the fact that this wasn’t love. She had no measure.

Burke Ramsey is linked to the breakfast-bar via his fingerprints on the items present and to the wine-cellar via his touch-dna on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown, discounting his Hi-Tec footprint and penknife.

What this means is we cannot rule Burke Ramsey out.

I do not recall BR fingerprints being linked to the breakfast bar. Perhaps the kitchen table. And yes according to the Bonita papers that Swiss Army knife was actually found feet from her body in the wine cellar. There is the poon print from boots BR wore and his touch DNA on the nightgown. My question here is w/LHP and family in and out of the wine cellar (removing Christmas trees) where are their hand and foot prints in this room? The poon print could have been made after JB voided on the carpet in which BR stepped into and then transferred the print.

We cannot rule PR out either. Since her touch dna is on the Barbie nightgown, fiber evidence in paint tray (although I question this). What about that scarf on the wet bar? Was it ever tested for fiber evidence? The colors matched were red and black. There were more colors in PR sweater that she wore out of the house that morning and didn’t turn over for at least a years time. How do we know what was turned over is the actual sweater she walked out in?