The December 23 party

[icedtea4me]

You may be correct, but I only recall the hammer story took place with the psychologist who interviewed BR.

This is from Kolar’s book about the psychologist’s interview with BR:
When asked again what he thought had happened, BR advised without hesitation that he knew what had happened to JonBenét and that she had been killed. He stated that he thought someone had quietly carried her downstairs to the basement and that person had then either stabbed JonBenét or struck a blow to her head with a hammer.

From FF there is also the disturbing story of BR discussing with DS whether or not manual strangulation had been involved with JonBenét’s death.

I’ve always wondered if the Rs had BR on some kind of medication to enhance his focus in school, something like what is prescribed for ADHD, typically Ritalin. Ritalin has been known to cause violent behavior in some kids. So-o unfortunate that the DA allowed them to conceal all their medical records.

I see. So it didn't occur to you that he may have actually witnessed something.

 

[UKGuy]

You may be correct, but I only recall the hammer story took place with the psychologist who interviewed BR.

This is from Kolar’s book about the psychologist’s interview with BR:
When asked again what he thought had happened, BR advised without hesitation that he knew what had happened to JonBenét and that she had been killed. He stated that he thought someone had quietly carried her downstairs to the basement and that person had then either stabbed JonBenét or struck a blow to her head with a hammer.

From FF there is also the disturbing story of BR discussing with DS whether or not manual strangulation had been involved with JonBenét’s death.

I’ve always wondered if the Rs had BR on some kind of medication to enhance his focus in school, something like what is prescribed for ADHD, typically Ritalin. Ritalin has been known to cause violent behavior in some kids. So-o unfortunate that the DA allowed them to conceal all their medical records.

questfortrue,
BR on medication, this is possible but how would that explain prior abuse , current abuse and her death, particularly its manner?

I'm not going into detail but I've always thought the Stine link might have been based on alleged prior criminal behavior?

.

 

[singularity]

I am also of the opinion a video was taken that might have gotten as far as the kids opening the presents (same as the pictures) but the video doesn't necessarily have to depict JAR to be discarded, it could have contained a bad event (which points at Burke) or an object they did not want LE to see.

THis is a really good point.

I'm on the fence regarding any video recording that day but I do know in the transcripts, John and Patsy sure like dancing around this issue and changing the subject....which means there is probably something to it.

It is certainly possible that a domestic dispute occurred that morning/afternoon which could easily cause them(or any family) to stop recording. John heads to the airport for hours, Jonbenet is in bed for at least part of the day(a bit unusual for a child on Christmas, even a genuinely sick one). This dispute may have resumed in the car ride home from the Whites party. Their stories about what transpired between leaving the Whites and arriving home do not match. What happened in such a short time frame? The Ramseys and their friends all lived fairly close to one another. Its not like they were taking some long journey to deliver gifts like Santa on his sleigh.

 

[andreww]

THis is a really good point.

I'm on the fence regarding any video recording that day but I do know in the transcripts, John and Patsy sure like dancing around this issue and changing the subject....which means there is probably something to it.

It is certainly possible that a domestic dispute occurred that morning/afternoon which could easily cause them(or any family) to stop recording. John heads to the airport for hours, Jonbenet is in bed for at least part of the day(a bit unusual for a child on Christmas, even a genuinely sick one). This dispute may have resumed in the car ride home from the Whites party. Their stories about what transpired between leaving the Whites and arriving home do not match. What happened in such a short time frame? The Ramseys and their friends all lived fairly close to one another. Its not like they were taking some long journey to deliver gifts like Santa on his sleigh.

I like your way of thinking on this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FrankieB]

THis is a really good point.

I'm on the fence regarding any video recording that day but I do know in the transcripts, John and Patsy sure like dancing around this issue and changing the subject....which means there is probably something to it.

It is certainly possible that a domestic dispute occurred that morning/afternoon which could easily cause them(or any family) to stop recording. John heads to the airport for hours, Jonbenet is in bed for at least part of the day(a bit unusual for a child on Christmas, even a genuinely sick one). This dispute may have resumed in the car ride home from the Whites party. Their stories about what transpired between leaving the Whites and arriving home do not match. What happened in such a short time frame? The Ramseys and their friends all lived fairly close to one another. Its not like they were taking some long journey to deliver gifts like Santa on his sleigh.

can you help me out with the time line here? as I understand they opened the presents in the morning (when the photos we have seen were taken: Patsy with strong grip on Jonbenét, Burke and Jonbenét opening presents and Jonbenét happy with her bycicle)

Apparently Jonbenét rode her bike a little outside?

then she went to bed feeling sick (I didn't know this)

then they get dressed and go to the white's party? lots of holes there we have no way of filling...as you say what could have transpired in the car?

then after the party they return home, open more presents and go to sleep?

thanks!

 

[singularity]

can you help me out with the time line here? as I understand they opened the presents in the morning (when the photos we have seen were taken: Patsy with strong grip on Jonbenét, Burke and Jonbenét opening presents and Jonbenét happy with her bycicle)

Apparently Jonbenét rode her bike a little outside?

then she went to bed feeling sick (I didn't know this)

then they get dressed and go to the white's party? lots of holes there we have no way of filling...as you say what could have transpired in the car?

then after the party they return home, open more presents and go to sleep?

thanks!

These are all great questions. I do not have the time at the moment to dig through all the transcripts, interviews, etc. By the way, a couple months ago I started doing a little project in my free time to organize the transcripts better. The sites that contain them(bless them for hosting the info) could have done a better job with it but I'm not complaining. At least we have access to them.

A few weeks ago, I had a health scare(blood and clots in my urine) and went to the hospital. It could be several different things, one of them "the c word". I went on a 10 day cycle of cipro that caused some major side effects. I am no longer urinating blood(praise Jesus) but still have some discomfort down there so I am not out of the woods yet. Hopefully it was just a massive infection and nothing worse. Anyways, if/when I get the "all clear" by my doctor, I am going to resume cleaning up those transcripts and making it more readable for people getting into the case and/or for those like me who took a refresher course on the case but felt reading the transcripts in that format tedious.

During this health scare I wasn't on the internet much but did post here a bit as it helped get my mind off my issues. I got a bit snippy with a couple members in one of these threads(BoldBear and Icedtea). I apologize for lashing out at them on that topic. They are both valuable members to the community and I actually like everyone here. I just like to discuss the case in general and definitely don't wish to have any tension with various members.

I'll tackle a few of those points but hopefully someone else can jump into this discussion with a more standard, official timeline.

It is inexcusable that BPD never attempted to truly nail down a proper timeline.....not just of Christmas but the days leading up to it. There are gaping holes in the timeline that Stevie Wonder could fly a B-52 bomber through....

Apparently Jonbenét rode her bike a little outside?

I would like more information on this subject. All we really know is she got the bike for Christmas. There is photographic evidence of this and they also acknowledged it. Things get a bit blurry on this issue though.....

John regrets not letting her ride the bike more before they left.....ok I get that....but why couldn't she ride it while he was gone for hours? A new bike for a six year old child is a great present. She would be happy. How long did she ride it and did she truly even ride it at all? Are there photographs of her riding this bike? If so, who took it? when?

Patsy got a new bike for Christmas. Why didn't she and Jonbenet both go out riding around the neighborhood together? Almost any mother/daughter getting such an identical gift would do this at some point yet they did not. What is Patsy doing with her time? If someone says packing, there sure was a lot of stuff still in need of packing the next day when photos were taken at the crime scene. If she's cooking, what is she cooking? They didn't have a standard Christmas dinner at their home.....they had breakfast at home and dinner at the Whites.

then she went to bed feeling sick (I didn't know this)

THis is actually open to debate....mainly how long was she in bed and for what reason. Many assume it was due to whatever incident happened on the 23rd. Jonbenet played with some kids Christmas day so we don't know long she was in bed. I'd like more info on what Jonbenet was doing on the 24th.

then they get dressed and go to the white's party? lots of holes there we have no way of filling...as you say what could have transpired in the car?

Yeah while John is spending three hours at the airport, we are not sure of what is actually happening at home. Jonbenet is 'off the grid' at this point, appears at the White party of course, then goes 'off the grid' again.

Check this out Frankie....its from the 97 interview.....

-----

TT: Okay. Right. You left, left for the Whites about five, 6:00, um, family of the Whites over there. Any other friends that weren’t related to the Whites or, or your family. Any other people over there at the White’s house that night?

PR: Uh, I don’t recall.

-----

Interesting. Can you imagine not being able to recall who was at the Christmas party you attended right before your daughter was murdered?

Further along....

----
TT: Okay. About how long did you stay at the White’s house?
PR: Oh, several hours, you know, I, something like 9:00 or so, eight.
TT: Okay.
PR: Eight or nine. We had to get up early so we didn’t. . .
TT: Stay out too late?
PR: . . .stay really late.

----

THat is unacceptable. Way too much can go on in an hour. I never would have allowed her to move on until a closer time frame could be established. Yes they have other witneses at this party but you cant just let Patsy dodge bullets to that extent.





and this is a doozy.....

------


TT: Was she awake at all when you were over at the Stine’s house?
PR: Uh, well, I just went to the door. We didn’t all go in. I just went to the door. . .

---------

Notice that she did not actually answer the question. Saying "I just went to the door" does not tell us whether Jonbenet is awake or not.

but it continues....

-----

PR: . . .for a Christmas present or something. We were going, I remember, cause I had a big basket in the car to take to the Fernies, but since JonBenet had fallen asleep and it was getting kind of late. . .
TT: Um hum.
PR: . . .I think we just decided not to go to the Fernies.

-------

INteresting. If she fell asleep the moment after leaving the Whites or had fallen asleep there, why not make the decision to not go handing out gifts around town at that moment and head straight home since it was late and she was asleep?

IMO its because something happened in the car during this drive.


Edit:

then after the party they return home, open more presents and go to sleep?

----
TT: About what time did you head up to bed that night?
PR: Um, probably around 9:30, 10:00 something like that.
TT: Okay. Um, did you guys try to wake up JonBenet at all or did she. . .
PR: She was zonked.

-----


Needless to say but.....I don't believe her. She puts the time around leaving the Whites "around 8 or 9" but apparently they go to bed around 9:30-10:00 pm? That dog wont hunt. Even if we eliminate any potential domestic disputes, kids arguing, playing, etc. she still had packing to do for the trip to Michigan. No chance in hell she went straight to bed after arriving home. Only chance of her actually going to sleep after arriving hom is if she had drank a lot at the Whites party and went home and passed out almost immediately....which could have helped explain why she had the same clothes on. I'm actually surprised they never used such reasoning to explain this even if its a lie.

I also hate how they always refer to Jonbenet as "zonked". I know why they do it but it makes it no less frustrating.

 

[UKGuy]

These are all great questions. I do not have the time at the moment to dig through all the transcripts, interviews, etc. By the way, a couple months ago I started doing a little project in my free time to organize the transcripts better. The sites that contain them(bless them for hosting the info) could have done a better job with it but I'm not complaining. At least we have access to them.

A few weeks ago, I had a health scare(blood and clots in my urine) and went to the hospital.

singularity,
Lets hope your blood issues are temporary, a good diet can alleviate many internal bleeding issues, since they stem from evacuation of the wrong stuff.

Back to the topic, i.e. the bikes: where are they? If BPD can produce the bikes then standard RDI theory goes out the window, since some think DS biked his way home in early hours of 12/26/1996?

if you think about it JonBenet appeared to have an uneventful Christmas Day until late that evening, there is little to correlate during the day with events of that evening, despite attempts to do so.

Other than that of PR's remarks regarding the matching clothing she of whom whether JonBenet bathed or dressed herself she took no notice, other than JR was not allowed to chaperon JonBenet and that she did not know what underwear JonBenet dressed herself in prior to the White's Party, but she was aware of the white gap top vs the red top difference, funny that?


Which suggests PR's explanation might be a cover for something that happened early Christmas Morning, i.e. the change of clothing has another origin, and might even explicate your suggestion of a sock fetish?

.

 

[FrankieB]

Hope you have a full recovery Singularity, best wishes.

 

[singularity]

Hope you have a full recovery Singularity, best wishes.

Thanks.

You asked for a timeline earlier. While not a thorough one, The Bonita Papers do contain a brief summary of the time leading up to her murder. The Bonita Papers a lengthy read and you should read the full thing sometime. We're veering off topic but it doesn't really warrant its own thread.

Here's a few key sections, including a few things going on before Christmas day. I'm going to add some brief comments as well....

The teachers did note that sometime in December 1996,
JonBenet developed a clinginess to her mother which they thought
unusual for the ordinarily independent, self assured child. It had
always been apparent that there was an extreme closeness between
JonBenet and her mother, appeared to be overly protective, but this change in JonBenet appeared to be an even more exaggerated degree of closeness.

This is interesting. What is going on in her life earlier that month that would cause this change in behavior?

But "normal" is not an appropriate word to describe JonBenet. Her flawless beauty certainly set her apart from other six year olds. Her extraordinary gift for entertaining was blatantly displayed to the public in the videos of her pageant performances immediately after her death. She demonstrated poise and maturity very untypical of a child her age, and she was as comfortable talking to adults as she was with playmates. People seemed drawn to her.

IMO her demeanor on this front(untypical maturity, talking with adults to that extent, etc.) is what made her such a high risk to potential abuse. That risk gets multiplied with the pageants, toilet issues, and allowing anyone to be within reach of her. Who is teaching her this? Was it an aspect of her grooming?

Bill McReynolds, a retired University of Colorado journalism professor and the man hired to play Santa for the last three Christmas' in JonBenet's life, was so touched by this child that he retired his Santa suit after her death. He could not bear the pain of the memories of the last Christmas he shared with JonBenet. The first year that he appeared at the Ramsey home as Santa, JonBenet took him by the hand and gave him a tour of her home. After Santa had given out the presents and was about to leave, JonBenet handed him a gift. This was the first time he had ever received a gift from a child while in his role as Santa. The gift was a little bottle of gold glitter which JonBenet told him was star dust. He carried his vial of "star dust" with him as his good luck charm through open heart surgery the following summer. McReynolds saw an angelic glow in this child a magical, spiritual quality that shared with the observer the perception of life filled with wonderment and innocence. But this Santa also saw a pensive and ethereal side of JonBenet which traversed her spirit way beyond her six years.

While he didn't kill her, his interest in her was a bit unhealthy. Some disagree and that's fine. I'd like to know how Jonbenet felt about him those last couple days of her life since there was a ripped up Christmas Card from Santa Bill found in Jonbenet's trash can. Instead of giving him bottles of glitter that Christmas, she's tearing to shreds personal cards. BIG difference.

The next day, Tuesday, December 24, JonBenet performed at a recital in the afternoon, and the family attended church services at St. John's. The Ramseys had dinner at a local restaurant, Pasta Jay's, owned by a close friend, Jay Elowsky. The remainder of Christmas eve was spent driving around town looking at Christmas lights. Every year during the Christmas Season the city erects the outline of a star with white lights on a nearby hill overlooking Boulder. The family stopped to gaze at this illuminated symbolism of the Christmas season which looked down upon then from the far away hillside. JonBenet insisted they let her out of the car so that she could walk through the star – her child wonderment wanting to experience the feeling of catching a rainbow.

The evening travels concluded with a brief visit at the home of Fleet and Priscilla White. Fleet owned an oil exploration business and had moved to Boulder two years ago from California. The families had met when the Whites rented a home two houses away from the Ramseys before purchasing their current residence. The Whites also had children, Fleet, Jr. and Daphne, closely matching the ages of Burke and JonBenet, and the children had become playmates when they were close neighbors.

After arriving home that evening and putting the children to bed, the parents began preparing for the arrival of Santa. Patsy retrieved the presents which had been hidden in the basement. John snuck away to the neighbor's house across the street, Joe Barnhill, to retrieve a bicycle stored there as a surprise gift for JonBenet on Christmas morning. Barnhill and his wife, an elderly couple, were more acquainted with the Ramseys than most of the neighbors. They even shared "custody" JonBenet's dog, often keeping the dog at their residence.

Nothing sounds out of the ordinary on Christmas Eve. Was a slice of normalcy really sandwiched between two key events(23rd party and the lead up to her murder)? Do we take this at face value or did more transpire on this day?

Also notice that they went to the Whites three consecutive days(at least) although this may not really mean anything. They were friends and lived fairly close to one another.

As in most households on Christmas morning, it was the anxious children who awoke their parents. JonBenet had slept in Burke’s room that night so he could awaken her early – too early. When the ritual of unwrapping of presents could begin. Patsy tried to get the children to slow down so that everyone could savor each present as it was unwrapped. But as with all excited little ones on Christmas morning, the presents were all opened within minutes - many of then not even visible beneath the piles wadded wrapping paper

After the morning of gift giving and a pancake breakfast among the four Ramseys, Burke and JonBenet invited young playmates over to show off the new toys. Patsy had packing and gift wrapping to do in preparation for leaving the next morning for their home in Charlevoix where they would spend the rest of the holiday week with John’s grown children, John Andrew and Melissa, and Melissa’s boyfriend, Stewart long. Melissa was a registered nurse at the Kenneth Stone Hospital in Marietta, Georgia, and her boyfriend was a medical student. John Andrew, although attending
College at CU in Boulder, was spending the Christmas break with this mother in Atlanta.. This trio of young folk were to join the other Ramseys in Minneapolis for the rest of the leg of the journey that would take them to Charlevoix.

John, Patsy, JonBenet and Burke were also scheduled to leave for Disney World in Florida immediately after they returned to Boulder from Charlevoix. In celebration of Patsy's 40th birthday on December 29, the family was taking the Disney World Cruise. Patsy had to pack for the two separate trips. A few winter clothes were placed in plastic sacks for the Charlevoix holiday, and suitcases were packed with summer clothes for the Disney World Cruise. John spent part of the day checking the personal jet, parked at the Jefferson County airport, that would fly his family to Michigan the next morning.

Nothing we didn't already know here and this is a too simplistic summary of events. It places many hours in a couple paragraphs. A sign of things to come...the Ramseys equally as vague the rest of the way.

That evening would bring another holiday gathering dinner with Fleet and Priscilla White and their family and guests. While getting ready to attend the dinner party, Patsy tried to persuade JonBenet to wear a red sweater and black velvet pants that would match the outfit that Patsy was wearing. Like most independently thinking six-year-olds, JonBenet had other ideas about her evening attire. She insisted on wearing her black velvet jeans and matching black velvet best with a whit crew-neck sweater with a sequin star on the front – an outfit she had helped pick out at a local Gap store. To complete her outfit, she wore a small gold ring on the middle finger of her right hand, a gift from her maternal grandmother, Nedra Paugh, a bracelet on her right wrist – a Christmas gift from her mother, and a gold cross necklace given to her by her aunt Pam.

This is what some believe is a KEY moment leading up to her murder....Jonbenet's desire to wear something else which may have infuriated Patsy.

The Ramsey family arrived at the White residence at approximately 4:30 p.m. With a houseful of relatives and guests, tables were set up in both the living room and dining room in order to provide everyone with a seat. Seafood, including crab, a favorite of the Ramsey children according to Patsy, was one of the main courses served for the holiday meal. After dinner, John and Fleet planted themselves on the living room floor and helped their daughters construct paper jewelry from kits given out by the Whites as gifts to the children attending the dinner party. The evening ended soon after some local carolers, entertaining in the neighborhood, came to the Whites' house, and Fleet and his son went outside and joined in the singing. The Ramseys John, Patsy, Burke and JonBenet, bid goodnight to the Whites at approximately 8:30 p.m.

If this is true, it removes all doubt in some theories that some ominous event happened at the Whites instead of everything happening after they leave. Looks like the Ramseys had no desire to participate in caroling and that is why they left.

While driving home, Patsy stopped at the houses of friends to drop off gifts a gift basket for Susan Stine and perfume for Roxanna Walker. Burke accompanied her to the door of the Stine's residence, but John and JonBenet remained in the car as JonBenet had fallen asleep. Patsy also had brought along a gift basket for John and Barbara Fernie, but because it was getting late and JonBenet was already asleep, Patsy decided to deliver this last gift some other time. The family arrived home at 9:00 p.m.

Is she REALLY asleep here? That is the million dollar question of this car ride. The Ramseys claim she is asleep when they arrive home yet Burke stated she wasn't. If she was asleep in the car and/or at the Whites before leaving, did something happen in the car to wake her up?

According to the official statements given by John and Patsy, John carried his sleeping daughter up to her bedroom on the second floor of the family home. Patsy ran ahead of John to turn down JonBenet's bed. After John laid his sleeping daughter on her bed, Patsy changed JonBenet's black velvet outfit she had worn to the dinner party, and put her to bed wearing the white shirt she had worn to the dinner party and long white thermal underpants. JonBenet, exhausted from the day's activities, never woke while Patsy changed the clothes.

Obviously many people(including me) have issues with this part of the timeline. THis is also the point when clothing becomes such a major factor in the case....the discrepancies in what she was wearing and when.

Burke went to bed after a few minutes of working with his father on assembling a toy he had gotten for Christmas. John and Patsy both stated that Patsy went to bed immediately and that John read a book for a few minutes before turning off the light and himself falling asleep. John occasionally took Melatonin tablets, a sleep aid found in health food stores. John said he wanted to get to sleep quickly to be ready for the flight the next morning, so he took one of the tablets that night. John and Patsy both say they last saw their daughter alive at approximately 10:00 p.m.

I don't believe any of this. Burke had got a Nintendo 64 that year....the hot gift for kids his age....he had been away from it for hours. He would have likely been begging to play it instead of going to sleep within minutes of assembling a toy with his dad. That incident always smelled of hog wash.

Winter nights in Boulder are quiet, usually filled with nothing
more than the soft cooing of owls nestling in the trees or the
flapping of the wings of dilatory Canadian geese lingering during
a long flight to some more tropical climate. Tonight did not
appear to be anything more. Neighbors noticed that the Ramsey
house appeared very quiet – even lights normally left on were not
visible. The only disruption to the ethereal darkness was the child’s scream heard by Melody Standon.

Why the need for darkness on this particular night?

In the official statement given to the Boulder Police, John said he awoke at approximately 5:30 a.m. and went into the bathroom to take a shower. Patsy got out of bed shortly after him, put on the clothes she had worn to the Whites' dinner party the night before, fixed her hair and applied her make up. She headed down the stairs from their third-floor bedroom to start coffee brewing and fix a light breakfast. She still had last minute packing for the trip to the families summer home in Michigan. The private
jet was scheduled to leave Jefferson County Airport at 7:00 a.m.
and the airport was about a 30 minute drive from the Ramsey’s home. As she came down the back spiral stairs leading from the bedrooms, she noticed papers lying on one of the landings. She turned at the bottom of the stairs and started to read the hand written letter as it still lay on the stairwell:

HUGE red flag right off the bat that morning and its amazing they were never called on this in interviews. Patsy can wake up, get dressed, put her makeup on, check on Jonbenet, see that she's missing, alert John of this fact, partially read the note, and dial 911 all within the span of approximately 20 minutes?!?

They should have been forced to do a reenanctment of this scene for the authorites. They would have failed miserably.

French noted that Patsy, dressed in a red turtle sweater and black pants, was pacing back and forth, but eventually settled in an overstuffed chair in the sitting room located at the southeast of the main floor. Patsy stared at French her eyes riveted him, but tried to conceal her actions with her fingers splayed over her eyes.

I sense this may be when the benzos kicked in. She goes from being agitated to lounging in her chair which is where she stays mainly for the duration of this nightmare.

According to John and Patsy, Burke had remained asleep during
Patsy's morning screams and commotion of people coming and going
from the residence. At approximately 7:0 a.m., John decided it
was time to wake Burke. It had already been decided that Burke
would be taken to the White's residence where relatives were
still staying for the holidays. John, accompanied by Fleet, went
up to Burke's room. John woke his sleeping son, “Why don't you
get up, buddy. You're going over to White's house to see Fleet,
Jr." Burke's only reaction to the disturbance of his sleep was,
"Okay." Burke put his clothes on, grabbed his Nintendo and a
couple of Christmas toys to take on his visit to his friend's
house, and followed his father and Fleet downstairs. Fleet
immediately took Burke outside to his vehicle and drove way.
Never once did Burke ask why policemen were at his house. The only conversation that passed between the two during the ride was occasional mention of Burke’s Nintendo he got for Christmas which he had brought with him.

The fact he asks no questions at this point pretty much proves he knew what was going on, at least in a general sense and also gives us a glimpse into the family dysfunction. Those on the scene should have noticed this.

On her way, Arndt stopped
at her office to pick up a hand-held tape recorder and meet with
Det. Fred Patterson who would accompany her to the scene of the
crime. Arndt and Patterson stopped briefly at a local mall
parking lot to meet with Reichenbach, who had just left the
residence, to be briefed on the situation at the Ramsey house.
Reichenbach told the two detectives that French, the first
officer on scene, said that "something didn't seem right".

Arndt and Patterson arrived at approximately 8:10 a.m. and were met by French.

Ok.....before she arrives at the house she is told "something didn't seem right". She does absolutely nothing with this information. She's also claimed to have her own instincts and "had a feeling" she knew what had happened. If so, why the five hour thumb twiddling session?

Arndt met with John Ramsey, explained the procedure for the telephone "trap", and asked permission to also hook up the portable tape recorder she had retrieved from the police department. She instructed him on using the tape recorder should a call come in from the kidnappers. During this discussion with John he was able to carry on a conversation, and was focused and articulate with his words. He sometimes even smiled and joked.

Arndt's instincts and experience clearly were out to lunch that day because the father of a kidnapped girl facing a potential beheading shouldn't be smiling and cracking jokes. How does this not raise alarm bells or at least get her to immediately remember French's "something's not right" comment, which she had heard herself minutes earlier?

Whitson and Patterson then asked John for samples of his handwriting. John went to a counter near the spiral staircase and picked up two letter-size pads of white lined paper. John handed both pads to Det. Patterson explaining that one pad contained prior writings of Patsy and the other his prior writings. Patterson took the pads and made a notation on the tope of each indicating which one belonged to Patsy and which one belonged to John.

Whitson later showed the notebook indicated as Patsy’s to Detective Jeff Kithcart. As Kithcart examined the notepad, he discovered among the pages a sheet of paper with the beginning of a note in a similar ink and handwriting style as the ransom note. This page, apparently a false start for the final note, only contained the words, “Mr. and Mrs. R”

The practice note was noticed this early in the sequence of events? I thought it was a bit later on it was discovered. Why on earth was she not taken to the police station immediately for questioning by BPD and FBI? Had they done so, the case might have been solved that day.

There's tons of info in the Bonita papers.

Here's something I just noticed or had simply forgotten and I find it very interesting since I believe that whole basement sequence is one of the key pieces to solving this puzzle.

FLEET WHITE:

Fleet diagramed the position of the body in the wine cellar. This positioning was inconsistent with John’s description when he found JonBenet.

I'm not actually that surprised by the discrepancy.

Here's one of the links to it.....

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?4502-The-quot-Bonita-Papers-quot-Unedited-Notes-From-Ramsey-Case-Documents

 

[questfortrue]

I see. So it didn't occur to you that he may have actually witnessed something.

What have I said that gives the impression I haven’t considered BR could be just a witness? As one well-known poster who had looked at the case for 17 plus years once said, there is no way to know how JonBenét’s head blow occurred. Anyone who claims they KNOW how the head injury occurred or KNOW exactly what happened has delusions of sleuthing grandeur.

When AH would not subpoena phone and medical records, when he wouldn’t set up an early investigatory GJ, when he allowed all the evidence to leak to the defense attorneys, he killed the case. What is left is very sparse forensic evidence which does not definitively point to any one person, and behavioral evidence which has to be interpreted within a theory. Even Kolar knew there should be more work done on the case, retrieval of medical records which he believed might give a fuller picture of BR and prove his theory.

There was an interesting observation from a witness who testified in the Arndt case. This was expert police procedure witness Van Blaricom. While I don’t totally agree with his assessment, he made a point that the case is not a forensic case, but a behavioral evidence case.

The behavior and the story of the Rs has never changed, and it has gone something like: We were all asleep, it was an intruder, the police dropped the ball, the police and media have caused us so much suffering, etc. What Boldbear said sometime in recent months is important to see: It was HUGE to develop this ruse, a monumental decision affecting so many other lives beyond their own. And it continues to this day.

For the two remaining Rs who were in the home that night, I’m pretty sure at least one of them, and likely both, know what happened, as perpetrators or as witnesses. Every time a gossip rag recycles the perp of the month, prints up a story about an Oliva, a Helgoth, a Gigax etc., most likely JR and BR shut their eyes to those supermarket magazines, simply purchase their groceries and ignore the harm to other families of those accused in the tabloids. And every time they ignore such harm, well, I think the callous grows a little thicker over their blackened souls. My opinion only.

 

[FrankieB]

WOW Singularity thank you so much for your post, it's full of golden nuggets. I'm aware of the Bonita papers but I've never read them in full and I definitely should. controversial documents aren't they?

-It is indeed strange Jonbenét developed a clinginess to Patsy and I've always wondered about that. I don't know what to make of it, does that probably discount Patsy as the source of abuse? one would think a victim would try to distance themselves as possible from their abuser. So it makes me wonder if she was seeking protection in her from the males in the house.

-This flawless beauty perception is ridiculous, I'm not saying she wasn't pretty but she was made believe she was prettier when enhanced. Bleached hair, so much make up, etc...the real child was a brunette who probably didn't care for entertaining adults to the extent she was made to do so.

-I didn't know she (or somebody else) had ripped a christmas card and left it in the trash can of her bedroom. Thanks so much Singularity for providing all this insight, I learn something new with every post you make. Is there more to the information? it sounds particularly interesting...what changed her perception of Santa enough to discard this item?

-I also lose my mind wondering what happened in that car ride.

-If nothing ominous happened at the White's party why keep the photographs such a huge secret to date?

-I've read some users here speculate the Nintendo 64 lead to some arguement: did Jonbenét kick it? did she get angry because Burke beat her? pure speculation but it is odd the Ramseys try to deter attention from it, when it is obvious a N64 would be of far more interest to any boy than a regular christmas toy. trust me, I was obsessed with mine too at age 9.

-The lights is a conflicting topic isn't it? This is the first time I've read the house being described as total darkness, prior to this I had always read some account of the Kitchen being on or at least some neighbor claiming to have seen shadows moving in the kitchen. Which version is the true one?

-The splayed fingers incident haunts me...I don't know how reliable it is as only those who were there would know but it's a really frightening picture. She was clearly studying their reactions if true.

 

[FrankieB]

For the two remaining Rs who were in the home that night, I’m pretty sure at least one of them, and likely both, know what happened, as perpetrators or as witnesses. Every time a gossip rag recycles the perp of the month, prints up a story about an Oliva, a Helgoth, a Gigax etc., most likely JR and BR shut their eyes to those supermarket magazines, simply purchase their groceries and ignore the harm to other families of those accused in the tabloids. And every time they ignore such harm, well, I think the callous grows a little thicker over their blackened souls. My opinion only.

Based on the interviews I've seen from recent years I doubt John Ramsey will ever, ever forget what happened that night.

As for Burke, this is pure speculation of course because this is a person we have 0 access to, but judging by social networks, it looks like he has no iota of interest whatsoever in his sister's death, his life seems to have carried on as if nothing happened and if he had nothing to do with the murder that is fair.

 

[UKGuy]

What have I said that gives the impression I haven’t considered BR could be just a witness? As one well-known poster who had looked at the case for 17 plus years once said, there is no way to know how JonBenét’s head blow occurred. Anyone who claims they KNOW how the head injury occurred or KNOW exactly what happened has delusions of sleuthing grandeur.

When AH would not subpoena phone and medical records, when he wouldn’t set up an early investigatory GJ, when he allowed all the evidence to leak to the defense attorneys, he killed the case. What is left is very sparse forensic evidence which does not definitively point to any one person, and behavioral evidence which has to be interpreted within a theory. Even Kolar knew there should be more work done on the case, retrieval of medical records which he believed might give a fuller picture of BR and prove his theory.

There was an interesting observation from a witness who testified in the Arndt case. This was expert police procedure witness Van Blaricom. While I don’t totally agree with his assessment, he made a point that the case is not a forensic case, but a behavioral evidence case.

The behavior and the story of the Rs has never changed, and it has gone something like: We were all asleep, it was an intruder, the police dropped the ball, the police and media have caused us so much suffering, etc. What Boldbear said sometime in recent months is important to see: It was HUGE to develop this ruse, a monumental decision affecting so many other lives beyond their own. And it continues to this day.

For the two remaining Rs who were in the home that night, I’m pretty sure at least one of them, and likely both, know what happened, as perpetrators or as witnesses. Every time a gossip rag recycles the perp of the month, prints up a story about an Oliva, a Helgoth, a Gigax etc., most likely JR and BR shut their eyes to those supermarket magazines, simply purchase their groceries and ignore the harm to other families of those accused in the tabloids. And every time they ignore such harm, well, I think the callous grows a little thicker over their blackened souls. My opinion only.

questfortrue,

What have I said that gives the impression I haven’t considered BR could be just a witness?

If BR was but a mere witness to his sisters death, say a PDI with PR whacking JonBenet during the pineapple snack, then how do we explain her acute sexual assault and her prior chronic sexual assault(s)?

When AH would not subpoena phone and medical records, when he wouldn’t set up an early investigatory GJ, when he allowed all the evidence to leak to the defense attorneys, he killed the case.

The standard explanation for AH's behavior was that he was protecting the R's, that there was some form of collusion taking part between the prosecutors office and attorneys representing the R's.

Similarly when AH never released the GJ decision, it was assumed he was protecting the R's, but AH's motive may have been more specific, i.e. to protect BR, since if the GJ decision advises charging the parents with being accomplices to a homicide, who does that leave in the R household as the prime suspect?

So looks to me as if AH would not allow medical records or phone records to be subpoenaed if there was any chance something that might link BR would be made public, after all JonBenet is dead and at 6-years old too young to have accumulated any disreputable medical records!

Whilst AH may have been operating according to Colorado State law, so can get a pass in that sense. I note nobody, including Kolar, who does/did know about the GJ decision has nothing to say about BR's involvement?

For the two remaining Rs who were in the home that night, I’m pretty sure at least one of them, and likely both, know what happened, as perpetrators or as witnesses.

If the case is PDI, then the remaining two R's will have limited knowledge of what took place unless they were witness to JonBenet's homicide. Similarly if the case is BDI, due to mistakes in aspects of the staging, e.g. not cleaning up the breakfast bar, redressing JonBenet in size-12's, etc, patently the parents did not know everything that took place.

Curiously if the case is JDI, then BR will know by default who killed JonBenet and why, but not the details.

.

 

[FrankieB]

Now I am really confused. The Gardener claimed Jonbenét teared up while talking about her dad and said she really missed him (while he was on his business trips) then apparently the child develops a clinginess to her mother, what can be made out of this?

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

While he didn't kill her, his interest in her was a bit unhealthy. Some disagree and that's fine. I'd like to know how Jonbenet felt about him those last couple days of her life since there was a ripped up Christmas Card from Santa Bill found in Jonbenet's trash can. Instead of giving him bottles of glitter that Christmas, she's tearing to shreds personal cards. BIG difference.

I don’t think the origin of the torn card (or paper) was ever nailed down. Patsy was questioned about it, and by her answers, I believe she was the one who wrote it.

Patsy Ramsey BDA interview - June 23, 1998:

13 THOMAS HANEY: Here is another
14 topic. Do you know anything about a Christmas
15 poem that was written out and was torn up and
16 thrown in the trash?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: (No response.)
18 TRIP DeMUTH: You know the poems
19 you wrote and put in the notebook about Santa
20 Claus?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, right.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: Was one torn up and
23 thrown away; do you remember anything like that?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I think I
25 hurriedly put one together the night -- it was
0176
1 usually a kind of a last-minute thing. I don't
2 remember throwing one away.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: I think something
4 like that was seen in the trash, or one of the
5 wastebaskets. Do you remember anything about
6 that?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I mean I did it
8 on the computer I think. I mean -- I mean, I am
9 just guessing. Maybe it was a copy that, not a
10 final draft, you know.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
13 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, that's fine.
​

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

-It is indeed strange Jonbenét developed a clinginess to Patsy and I've always wondered about that. I don't know what to make of it, does that probably discount Patsy as the source of abuse? one would think a victim would try to distance themselves as possible from their abuser. So it makes me wonder if she was seeking protection in her from the males in the house.

First, I should say that I don’t believe JonBenet was being physically abused. But I’ve read that the “clinginess” to one parent that is sometimes observed in abused children may well be the opposite of what instinct might tell us. Someone with a psychology background might explain this better than me, but I think it has to do with the child seeking approval, closeness, or a desire to please the person who is the abuser. Also I think maybe that story about JonBenet clinging to Patsy could be simply that one teacher’s impression that has been made too much of. Children tend to do things like that when they are being shy around someone they don’t feel comfortable with. It could have been that she didn’t particularly like that teacher. I’m not trying to minimize something that might have potentially meant something, but I think there are other possible explanations for this story.

-If nothing ominous happened at the White's party why keep the photographs such a huge secret to date?

The only photos that were part of the investigation that we’ve been able to view are the ones that have been leaked or stolen from BPD -- or were promulgated by Loose Mitt (but that’s another story). Don’t read too much into the fact that any particular photos have not been made available to us.

-The splayed fingers incident haunts me...I don't know how reliable it is as only those who were there would know but it's a really frightening picture. She was clearly studying their reactions if true.

The “splayed fingers” story is reliable. If I’m not mistaken, that was written into Officer French’s police report (along with, BTW, Patsy’s request that he remove his service pistol because it made her nervous).

 

[Deadhead_Kay]

(rsbm)First, I should say that I don’t believe JonBenet was being physically abused. But I’ve read that the “clinginess” to one parent that is sometimes observed in abused children may well be the opposite of what instinct might tell us. Someone with a psychology background might explain this better than me, but I think it has to do with the child seeking approval, closeness, or a desire to please the person who is the abuser. Also I think maybe that story about JonBenet clinging to Patsy could be simply that one teacher’s impression that has been made too much of. Children tend to do things like that when they are being shy around someone they don’t feel comfortable with. It could have been that she didn’t particularly like that teacher. I’m not trying to minimize something that might have potentially meant something, but I think there are other possible explanations for this story.

You're correct that children who experience abuse do, at times, try harder to gain their abusers love. It's seen in many relationships where the caregiver neglects their children emotionally as well. Kids assume it's their behavior that causes their parents abuse and so try to make up for it by being overly attached.

The situation that this happened in, was the teacher a complete stranger or just someone JonBenet wasn't fond of but knew well enough? Because her reaction with another, possible strange relation around, reminds me of psychologist Mary Ainsworth's experiment where a young child is left alone with a stranger, and how they react when the parent returns. Now it's hard to connect it to JonBenet considering the children used were toddlers, but her behavior reminds me of that of an insecurely attached child, her unwillingness to venture away from her mother in what should have been a very safe environment, contradictory to her typical behavior of being very outgoing. I wanna read some more about this interaction because i haven't heard about it until now, so I'm not saying anything is concrete, just interesting.

 

[singularity]

-It is indeed strange Jonbenét developed a clinginess to Patsy and I've always wondered about that. I don't know what to make of it, does that probably discount Patsy as the source of abuse? one would think a victim would try to distance themselves as possible from their abuser. So it makes me wonder if she was seeking protection in her from the males in the house.

It doesn't necessarily discount her as the abuser, at least in the physical, verbal,etc. sense but could just mean that in that dysfunctional household, she felt safest around Patsy....at least during this specific time frame.

The housekeeper claimed that she heard Jonbenet screaming in the bathroom while Patsy was in there with her in the past. I think this is one of the issues that ST used to bolster his PDI theory. What exactly is she doing to Jonbenet in the bathroom to make her scream?

-This flawless beauty perception is ridiculous, I'm not saying she wasn't pretty but she was made believe she was prettier when enhanced. Bleached hair, so much make up, etc...the real child was a brunette who probably didn't care for entertaining adults to the extent she was made to do so.

I agree. The world went a bit overboard on this. She was obviously a beautiful girl but more in an all american girl next door way. Other than having rich parents and all the craziness and dysfunction that encompassed her life, she was just a normal young girl.

-I didn't know she (or somebody else) had ripped a christmas card and left it in the trash can of her bedroom. Thanks so much Singularity for providing all this insight, I learn something new with every post you make. Is there more to the information? it sounds particularly interesting...what changed her perception of Santa enough to discard this item?

otg posted a segment from one of their interviews. Here's another section where its mentioned and also Steve Thomas discussing it in his deposition in the Wolf lawsuit. I'm pretty sure it is mentioned somewhere else in one of these transcripts but don't have the time at the moment to find the info.


-----

TOM HANEY: Next we have two color copies of photo --

PATSY RAMSEY: Christmas something, I don't know what it is.

TRIP DeMUTH: That's, I'll tell what you that is, that is a still photo from a videotape. It was looking down into a trash can. I don't know which one for sure.

TOM HANEY: In the house.

TRIP DeMUTH: In the house, yeah. Took a wastebasket in the house. Do you recognize this stationery?

PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know recognize anything. I mean, it looks like a Christmas
card, you know --

TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).

PATSY RAMSEY: That type of...

TRIP DeMUTH: Is it different than the stationery that poems, the Christmas poems were written on?

PATSY RAMSEY: I think so because this has a -- I don't remember that big bow like that, and I don't know I can do this type of typing.

TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

PATSY RAMSEY: Type face on that. Where is that? Didn't we have a picture?

TRIP DeMUTH: The police report has a -- do you have the page number to that one?

PATSY RAMSEY: The video picture is of the --

TOM HANEY: You know how you pan with the video camera, police officer pans with the video camera --

PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, his video.

TOM HANEY: Yes.

PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.

TOM HANEY: Pans down into a wastebasket.

PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.

TRIP DeMUTH: I don't have a number.

PATSY RAMSEY: It was looking near the dining room.

TRIP DeMUTH: Was it there?

TOM HANEY: 140 I think was some in themdining room, so it might have been later, though, because there so many different places.

TRIP DeMUTH: Yeah.

-------

I say it every time I post sections of the transcripts....just incompetent interrogating top to bottom, through and through. Its like they did absolutely no preparation for these interviews. They show their hands continuously and she's always several moves ahead of them. She even makes crucial slip ups throughout the entire transcripts and they never follow through or ask her to elaborate.

Also two issues clearly being discussed.....a pattern in these amateurish interviews....Patsy's poems and this card. They are not the same thing obviously. As far as what changed her perception.....obviously speculation but I have always felt something really bad happened at that 23rd party that set the wheels in motion. She could have been angry at Santa and in a fit ripped up this card. Its even possible Burke did it out of spite. We'll never know unfortunately. Had they handled these interviews with a shred of competence maybe we could have found out more.

Here's the Thomas section dealing with this issue from the Wolf suit.....

-----------

Q. Was there a note from Bill McReynolds found torn up in JonBenet's trash can in her room?

A. I have heard that.

Q. Did you ever check to see if that were true?

A. I think I was told that it was some sort of card.

Q. From Bill McReynolds?

A. Yes.

Q. Was it ever fingerprinted, do you know?

A. Detective Trujillo would know that. I don't.

Q. Did you ever try to find out?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever try to find out what the card said?

A. I recall at one time. I don't now.

--------------

Some think this card originates from the Ramseys themselves. I disagree. I don't think they knew anything about the card until it was brought to their attention.....same with the pineapple.

Obviously its just my opinion but I think Santa gave her this card during that 23rd party.

-I also lose my mind wondering what happened in that car ride.

So little is known about the car ride and they were never really pushed to elaborate on the matter. They weren't even pushed very hard in the interviews on whether or not Jonbenet is awake at any point during the ride home. It can be either/or. They are extremely vague on this topic and there's probably a reason for that. John didn't handle this subject very well in his interview either.

-If nothing ominous happened at the White's party why keep the photographs such a huge secret to date?

The trillion dollar question....

The main issue is supposed to be over her clothing. Since she was found wearing something she wasn't wearing at this party, it calls into question when was she wearing which specific items, and even the other Ramseys clothing that evening has been discussed throughout those interviews. Another issue is her hair. Does it match the condition in which she was found?

Having said that, I think there's something else in these photographs. Maybe nothing like the "cutesy" pics in the basement but something else that isn't adding up for some reason. Are one or two people wearing two different sets of clothing in the pics which would mean a possible trip back home had happened at some point in the evening? Has someone been photographed at the party who wasn't supposed to be there? Hell, had Steve Thomas not said years ago he had seen Jonbenet in the Whites photos, I would question whether she was even really there that night.

otg believes people shouldn't read too much into these photos. I disagree. There is a reason they keep getting brought up in the interviews. Its not because they mean nothing. They keep asking questions about that party even though they know what they wore and she knows what they wore....the pictures are right there....so what is in dispute exactly? Neither side will say....unless its been redacted. They also wont release them.

-I've read some users here speculate the Nintendo 64 lead to some arguement: did Jonbenét kick it? did she get angry because Burke beat her? pure speculation but it is odd the Ramseys try to deter attention from it, when it is obvious a N64 would be of far more interest to any boy than a regular christmas toy. trust me, I was obsessed with mine too at age 9.

There were some old BDI theories back many years ago that revolved around this Nintendo. At some point between then and now it has morphed into him bludgeoning her during a pineapple snack.

Not sure what happened that night with his Nintendo but on that morning it was basically the only thing he took with him to the Whites. Understandable I suppose as it would keep him occupied but IMO they never should have allowed anything out of that house.

-The lights is a conflicting topic isn't it? This is the first time I've read the house being described as total darkness, prior to this I had always read some account of the Kitchen being on or at least some neighbor claiming to have seen shadows moving in the kitchen. Which version is the true one?

Yeah there are discrepancies on this issue. Some say it was pitch black, others say you could see lights moving around in there. Witness statements in that neighborhood don't seem very reliable.....or are they? We've got the infamous scream, Barnhill claiming to have seen JAR walking by their house on Christmas, and of course this issue with the lights.

-The splayed fingers incident haunts me...I don't know how reliable it is as only those who were there would know but it's a really frightening picture. She was clearly studying their reactions if true.

Yeah otg is correct that this actually happened. I agree that not only is it very creepy.... its also extremely suspicious. So was her comment about wanting the cops to put away their guns. When asking people there to protect you and your family from kidnappers to disarm, its a sign that you're not too worried about any potential threats from the kidnappers.

The request was likely due to self preservation. Didn't want to risk her or John getting shot in any potential chaos when her body is found. It also puts Arndt's ridiculous comment about counting her bullets in a whole new light.

 

[FrankieB]

As always thank you Singularity, I will have to get back to you...you've given me tons to think about

 

[FrankieB]

It doesn't necessarily discount her as the abuser, at least in the physical, verbal,etc. sense but could just mean that in that dysfunctional household, she felt safest around Patsy....at least during this specific time frame.

The housekeeper claimed that she heard Jonbenet screaming in the bathroom while Patsy was in there with her in the past. I think this is one of the issues that ST used to bolster his PDI theory. What exactly is she doing to Jonbenet in the bathroom to make her scream?

Could it have been hair bleaching sessions? I read Patsy once took Jonbenét to a hair salon but the stylist refused to do it so Patsy purchased DIY kits.

otg posted a segment from one of their interviews. Here's another section where its mentioned and also Steve Thomas discussing it in his deposition in the Wolf lawsuit. I'm pretty sure it is mentioned somewhere else in one of these transcripts but don't have the time at the moment to find the info.

The interrogation with Patsy is impossible to understand. The other one is clear as day though, but incredibly vague. Surely he *must* recall what was written on the note? he's treating the item like it's of no significance but I get the impression he doesn't want to elaborate. I agree.

Some think this card originates from the Ramseys themselves. I disagree. I don't think they knew anything about the card until it was brought to their attention.....same with the pineapple.

Obviously its just my opinion but I think Santa gave her this card during that 23rd party.

Same here, I think just like with the bizarre christmas photograph, they took her completely by surprise.

Pure speculation: If Jonbenét arrived home, went upstairs and ripped the card subsequently throwing it in the trash...was she already angry when they left the party? did something upset her during the car ride? Either way she was not asleep was she? As you say something happened in that party and we are not privy. It's frustrating to think those photographs might have some answers and we have no access to them.

I suppose any child could do something like that if for some reason they felt disappointed in christmas or in Santa Claus but this is the night she was murdered so everything is of special significance.

Having said that, I think there's something else in these photographs. Maybe nothing like the "cutesy" pics in the basement but something else that isn't adding up for some reason. Are one or two people wearing two different sets of clothing in the pics which would mean a possible trip back home had happened at some point in the evening? Has someone been photographed at the party who wasn't supposed to be there? Hell, had Steve Thomas not said years ago he had seen Jonbenet in the Whites photos, I would question whether she was even really there that night.

If I'm not mistaken we have seen two or three pictures of this party right? Or maybe they are from another party but I recall somebody showing me a photograph of Jonbenét smiling at the party, I hope I'm not mistaken. So I guess it is the complete roll which has never been released, once you see them all together or in sequence that's when you realize something doesn't add up.