The Duct Tape Match #2

[fortytwo]

No-I think what they said was that her HAIR had to be cut to separate the duct tape properly. I do not recall them stating anything about cutting the duct tape.

Neither do I.

I have been puzzled by this since I started reading through the docs. I'm trying to pull together the multiple references, but my brain keeps spinning out. There are too many labeling and numbering systems being used.

This thread just helped me find two different FBI designation "Q-62". One for tape, which I knew about (pg. 3793), and another for hair, which I overlooked (pg. 3777-78) of the FBI submission records.

Synopsis as I see it. Includes descriptive and list evidence.

Remains were observed with a (singular) piece of tape on "mouth area". We first learned about this officially in the search warrant requests from 1.20.09 doc dump. The 12.11 warrant mentions only the tape, the 12.20 warrant adds the heart shaped sticker.

All subsequent docs issued describing the initial scene mention only one piece of tape, on the mouth area.

I thought that this piece of tape is the piece described as Tag H-60493, item # 16 on pg. 3402, but I'm not sure, and this may be where my confusion lies.

Note that this ref: (pg. 3402) lists all of the four pieces I can establish as being collected at the remains site. I can't (yet) pin down a date and location of collection for that piece, which makes me think it's the one on the skull. Also, the tag # H-600493 is used with many other items associated early with and close to the remains. I think that maybe that tag # was assigned to the things that went early to the M.E. The other three (Tag J-60013, items 4 & 5) were found on Dec.19 in Lane 7.( pg. 3453). I'm not sure how far away from North/South baseline, but they were working the edge of the search area by then, so they were not close to the remains.

The gas can tape seems pretty straightforward (so far).Tag H-60498, item # 65 (can & tape) collected during 12.11 search of A house(pg. 3408). Note that two "brackets with duct tape" were also collected. Same tag #, item # 63. These haven't surfaced elsewhere I think (hope).

Now the fun begins. The gas can and tape are submitted together on Dec. 13 as OCSO designation Q-76 (pg.3536). Pg. 3537 requests a comparison of tape "found on human remains" to "tape located on gas can".

Thats two pieces. Maybe.

Next is the Jan. 9 submittal. This includes Henkel tape (H-60493, item 16) submitted as OCSO item Q-100 (pg. 3744). The examination request (pg. 3747) asks to "compare the piece of duct tape to the duct tape found on the human remains and to the duct tape from the residence". (bold mine)

That's three pieces. Right?

The FBI response to the Dec. submittals is on pg. 3793. It references three pieces of tape assigned FBI iitem #s Q62-64, but they are not cross-referenced to any OCSO id #s. It goes on to assign the gas can (OCSO H-60498, item 65) the FBI id # Q-65, and the one piece of tape on the gas can Q-66.

That's four pieces of tape. Isn't it??

The report goes on to say that all three pieces Q62-64 are similar and equally degraded. It also refers to them as having come from the skeletal remains. All three of them.

All of these four pieces are described as having the Henkel logo.

Note that the Henkel piece (H-60493, item 16) was not submitted until Jan. 9, and these pieces are all four recorded as having been received Dec. 13. The report is dated Dec. 19.


I can't find the three pieces of tape found on the site on 12.19 referenced in any testing. Nor can I find any mention of the "brackets with tape". All of these had separate id #s.

So I think I'm missing some tape pieces from the remains.

Did the FBI cut up a piece and designate as Q62-64?

If H-60943, item 16 is not the piece from the mouth then what is it, and and what is the OCSO label for the piece that did come from the mouth?

 

[Rumpole]

I believe the A's now use colour-coding on cutlery. Silver duct tape signifies "Spoon"

 

[fortytwo]

Gas can with duct tape = Tag #H-60948, item #65. Goes to FBI as Q-76, where it becomes Q-65 and Q-66.

I just had to type that out and look at it.

That's just one thing we're discussing (or maybe two)?

No wonder we're confused.

 

[Hot Dogs]

"They haven't even found the eleventh piece of duct tape."

 

[smart blonde]

It matches the roll. I can't believe it even though it says it. She's so done. I bet she gotta real good laugh out of that stupid kinder care sign...

When I read about the Kinder Care sign laying so near Caylee's remains, the hair on the back of my neck stood on end.
I instantly had the same thought, that Casey probably found humor in the irony. l wouldn't even put it past her to have placed the sign there herself.

 

[evergreen]

It was explained in the documents how this took place.

The skull was found upright. There was some hair still attached to the skull, and more loose hair found to the front, the back, and both sides. The tape was connected to the hair on both sides of the skull, holding the tape in place. The hair had to be cut to remove the tape as found.
So you got me, technically, the tape wasn't attached to the skull. It was attached to the hair attached to the skull.
Sorry for not being exactly specific.
Lanie

thank you....:blowkiss:

 

[fortytwo]

"They haven't even found the eleventh piece of duct tape."

I only wish it was funny.

There are, so far, at least seven...possibly eight...and maybe even ten pieces.

...so far.

ETA: Probably eight.

 

[Rumpole]

I only wish it was funny.

There are, so far, at least seven...possibly eight...and maybe even ten pieces.

...so far.

I am largely staying out of the Duct Tape debate. I have used up my quota of document search on hearts and diaries. I am though very interested on what you decide/deduce finally. Are these bits and pieces enough to suggest Caylee was bound as well as gagged? Or.... do you think they were sealing one of the bags, or either or neither?

 

[fortytwo]

I am largely staying out of the Duct Tape debate. I have used up my quota of document search on hearts and diaries. I am though very interested on what you decide/deduce finally. Are these bits and pieces enough to suggest Caylee was bound as well as gagged? Or.... do you think they were sealing one of the bags, or either or neither?

Out of the seven option, none of the above.

Three pieces found at the site (listed as two item #s) were found on Dec. 19, the day before they exited the remains site. They were found well away from the area where the remains were discovered. That's out of four that I am sure were found at the site.

Two pieces were found on some sort of brackets in one of the storage sheds.

None of these five pieces have surfaced anywhere I've found yet except for being mentioned as collected.

One piece, on the gas can does not elicit much confusion except for the labeling silliness.

That takes care of six out of the seven I'm certain exist.

Number seven, the item #16 Henkel logo piece, may or may not be the same as the piece on the skull.

If not then one of those is number eight.

The FBI reports testing three pieces from the remains.

...before they were sent the item #16 Henkel logo piece.

Since they described Henkel logos on those pieces as well that suggests there is an eighth piece, and if they didn't cut up a submitted piece into three for testing then that makes...

...ten.

...at least.

...I think.

 

[Rumpole]

Out of the seven option, none of the above.

Three pieces found at the site (listed as two item #s) were found on Dec. 19, the day before they exited to remains site. They were found well away from the area where the remains were discovered. That's out of four that I am sure were found at the site.

Two pieces were found on some sort of brackets in one of the storage sheds.

None of these five pieces have surfaced anywhere I've found yet except for being mentioned as collected.

One piece, on the gas can does not elicit much confusion except for the labeling silliness.

That takes care of six out of the seven I'm certain exist.

Number seven, the item #16 Henkel logo piece, may or may not be the same as the piece on the skull.

If not then one of those is number eight.

The FBI reports testing three pieces from the remains.

...before they were sent the item #16 Henkel logo piece.

Since they described Henkel logos on those pieces as well that suggests there is an eighth piece, and if they didn't cut up a submitted piece into three for testing then that makes...

...ten.

...at least.

...I think.

Thanks. Have a sit down and a nice cup of tea!

That's as clear as mud. No, actually it does not sound like evidence that Caylee was taped hand and foot?

Somewhere earlier I read from someone who seemed to know, that brand tape common and any definative matches would depend on features matching at cut/torn ends. I guess that is a long shot, but great evidence if it pans out?

 

[Marina2]

I should have said seven total. 3 were found with remains 12/11 and sent to lab to be tested, aka Q62, Q63, Q64. The tape removed from the gascan is Q66. Then 3 more were found 12/19 in lane 7, one long one by itself, and then approximately 30 minutes later, 2 more.
Lanie

These are the pieces I'm interested in. Fingerprints or not, they were found with the remains and textile fibers, of different colors and types were removed from them. These fibers were saved on microscopic slides and saved for further comparison tests. I'm hoping they match KC's clothes or, at least, carpet from her house or car.

 

[Callie]

Bringing over here: Sentinel reports that docs say that tape found on Caylee, matches tape on gas can.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...asey-anthony-discovery-021809,0,5750058.story

The article also said that no prints were found on the tape. How can that be? That stuff sticks to everything, including fingers. Unless maybe the water gooed it all up. I was so hoping they'd find prints.

 

[fortytwo]

Ok. If you look above, you see that tape (H-60493 Item #16) was sent to the FBI. Either that tape was renamed Q62-64, or it's yet another piece sent to the FBI.

Looking above, on the first doc you posted, at the very bottom of the page, it says certain items listed above were redesignated by the FBI lab as Q96 through Q111, respectively. Going by that, duct tape item #16 is now designated Q100. That could be one of the 3 I found in my document I linked. No, it isn't. Looking above, the second image you posted has the 3 pieces of duct tape I found in the documents. So now we have 3 removed from remains and sent, Q62, Q63, and Q64, one from gascan, Q66, 1 found loose and sent, Q100, and 3 more.
Lanie

Hinkel duct tape Tag #H-60493, item 16 was designated Q-100 by OCSO.

From what I have seen the FBI would have given it yet another number, as they did with the gas can and tape, which came from OCSO as Q-76, and was changed by FBI to Q-65 (can) and Q-66 (tape). I have been unable to track down an FBI label for item #16 (AKA Q-100) yet.

At any rate the point is moot, since that piece wasn't sent to the FBI until Jan. 9. and the piece(s) that were tested were sent on Dec. 13.

 

[fortytwo]

Thanks. Have a sit down and a nice cup of tea!

That's as clear as mud. No, actually it does not sound like evidence that Caylee was taped hand and foot?

Somewhere earlier I read from someone who seemed to know, that brand tape common and any definative matches would depend on features matching at cut/torn ends. I guess that is a long shot, but great evidence if it pans out?

Sadly, that brand is extremely common.

It's so common that you almost have to try if you want to not buy one of their varieties (they make lots of different kinds).

 

[fortytwo]

These are the pieces I'm interested in. Fingerprints or not, they were found with the remains and textile fibers, of different colors and types were removed from them. These fibers were saved on microscopic slides and saved for further comparison tests. I'm hoping they match KC's clothes or, at least, carpet from her house or car.

I hope so, too. Otherwise it's gonna be a terrible waste of all that tape.

 

[Rumpole]

Do you think LE is playing a game with us?

Plenty to sleuth out and documents difficult to get clues from. But all we get are things that we need an answer to, not actual answers.

I am sure you will sort out which bits of Duct tape came from where, but we get no inf about a match anywhere. We know about diaries and heart stickers found, but nothing about what if anything they match?

It's a good game. Hours of fun for the whole family - trying to fathom how to have hours of fun?

 

[fortytwo]

Do you think LE is playing a game with us?

Plenty to sleuth out and documents difficult to get clues from. But all we get are things that we need an answer to, not actual answers.

I am sure you will sort out which bits of Duct tape came from where, but we get no inf about a match anywhere. We know about diaries and heart stickers found, but nothing about what if anything they match?

It's a good game. Hours of fun for the whole family - trying to fathom how to have hours of fun?

I'll be tickled all to death if I can just figure out how many pieces of duct tape there are!!!

I don't think LE is playing games with us. They're just not issuing documents for our convenience... or JB's I suspect.

There may be some clues shaping up around the holes left in the docs that they have issued.

Speaking of which, I think I'm noticing some missing pages in the sequence of released docs. Has anyone put together a list of all the OCSO page #s for these doc dumps?

Another avenue to explore is the sequence of evidence tag and item numbers. I keep thinking that if I could just attach an evidence number to the tape found on the skull then much would become clear, or at least clearer.

 

[Lanie]

Neither do I.

I have been puzzled by this since I started reading through the docs. I'm trying to pull together the multiple references, but my brain keeps spinning out. There are too many labeling and numbering systems being used.

Snipped for space.

I got through most of the docs again but my computer started fritzing out on pdf.
From what I read, I found NO mention of the skull in all the lists of things found. I did read quite a bit about it in narratives, though.
Here's my line of thought.
The skull was found with duct tape over the mouth area. It was not actually in the bag and fell out, but was laying on the ground underneath the bag. More skeletal remains were in the bag. When the *advertiser censored*. ME got there, after everything was photographed, etc., he took possession of the skull and the bag with the skeletal remains. IMO, the list including the skull, duct tape, and those particular skeletal remains are going to be on an ME report, which was not included in the doc dump (that I saw, anyway), as they were officially collected by the *advertiser censored*. ME. The rest of the skeletal remains were collected by CSI's, and are in the document dump. 3 pieces of duct tape, Q62, Q63, and Q64, were collected at the ME's office and sent to the lab to be comparison tested. IMO, these three are separate from the rest in the reports, Q66, from gascan collected by investigators, Q100, collected at remains scene by investigators, and at least 3 more, one long piece and 2 other pieces found 12/19 approximately 30 minutes apart.
FWIW
Lanie

 

[Rumpole]

I'll be tickled all to death if I can just figure out how many pieces of duct tape there are!!!

I don't think LE is playing games with us. They're just not issuing documents for our convenience... or JB's I suspect.

There may be some clues shaping up around the holes left in the docs that they have issued.

Speaking of which, I think I'm noticing some missing pages in the sequence of released docs. Has anyone put together a list of all the OCSO page #s for these doc dumps?

Another avenue to explore is the sequence of evidence tag and item numbers. I keep thinking that if I could just attach an evidence number to the tape found on the skull then much would become clear, or at least clearer.

Somebody noticed a missing chunk last time. I joined in with requests but no answers. I seem to remember it was 10 or so pages in a boring section so I gave up. This lot seems OK I have continuous pages 3374 - 3801. Do I have it all? I have not checked every page number for singlton omissions.

I also take some heart from the fact that this lot is just as awkward for JB and he does not have the world wide network of WS. He can steal our work, but it's mostly against him and his client.
Your Congress should have ran that million page socialism bill past WS, at least it would have got read?

 

[Rumpole]

From last lot
pages 3121 - 3133 Missing?