The Duct Tape Match #3

[Bobbisangel]

About all we have is this excerpt from an email sent Henkel's to another WSer during the spring of this year:

The information above does not refer specifically to the Orlando area, but is a nationwide statement. The takeaway is that one probably could not buy it after the summer of 2007...but that is not a certainty as it may have been buried in with other items.

If a person doesn't use duct tape often a roll can last for ages. I wonder if the Anthonys didn't buy two or three rolls when they bought it and just used it once in awhile like on the gas cans. If the duct tape was being discontinued it could have been being sold in the stores for a good discount
price. A lot of stores do that when something is being discontinued. That is the time to buy a few rolls for half of the old price. It does sound like good tape. The tape could easily been bought in 2007and still be around the house.

 

[robotdog]

i would not be surprised if they can find similiar duct tape at the car dealership GA used to work/own with his father !


duct tape rolls can last years

 

[scratchthatitch]

Interesting! Especially the same blue fiber on the gas can duct tape.

So,at the top of my head,it could mean a few things:

The gas can was in the trunk with Caylee and there was a tranfer of fibers. Or...
The gas can and duct tape, was kept in a storage area with a cloth of cotton blue fibers,that was transfered to Caylee,when the duct tape was applied to her.

Either way,I think the same fibers on the gas can and on Caylee is huge!
Please ,no one burst my bubble...

Okay, just speculating here...

So, IF the tape from Caylee's remains and the tape from the gas can that was involved in the "here are your f-ing gas cans!" June 24th incident (recollected by George) share a blue cotton fiber,

and If the "blue cotton fiber" was not present on any other known henkel tape from the Anthony residence,

Then, Casey has been placed with an item(by George) that is tied directly to tape on a dead Caylee prior to the car being left at Amscot.

Therefore, Casey was directly in contact with incriminating evidence before the window of opportunity for SODDI to stage that evidence in the abandoned car.... hmmmm

MOO

 

[magic-cat]

So....there were four pieces of Henkel duct tape at the crime scene.

Q62-Q64 and Q104 - all Henkel brand duct tape.

Yep yep!!!

I don't see it at all!!



GREAT JOB!!



Unless Caylee was drugged or straddled, I have always thought her wrists and ankles may have been bound, otherwise she would have tried to remove the duct tape from her mouth as she struggled to breathe. I cannot think of another reason for extra pieces of Henkel duct tape being at the scene.

IT is entirely possible that the extra piece once was ALSO about her face and when the animals began to scavenge her they pulled that piece away...it has apparently been gnawed upon, so wh knows...It could have been binding her that's for sure, but it also could have been another piece that was used upon her poor precious defenseless face! Or as in another theory to tape a bag over her head and perhaps around her neck. I's sure the investigators have a theory considering they saw it where it lay and with the remains near it where it was found, so their theory on this is certainly one that I am anxious to hear/see...

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Yep yep!!!

IT is entirely possible that the extra piece once was ALSO about her face and when the animals began to scavenge her they pulled that piece away...it has apparently been gnawed upon, so wh knows...It could have been binding her that's for sure, but it also could have been another piece that was used upon her poor precious defenseless face! Or as in another theory to tape a bag over her head and perhaps around her neck. I's sure the investigators have a theory considering they saw it where it lay and with the remains near it where it was found, so their theory on this is certainly one that I am anxious to hear/see...

You know you brought up a good theory. If there was other DNA on the tape other than the Lab Tech it could very well be that DNA of an "Animal", since it is a known fact that animals will scavenger - feed off human remains and maybe they gnawed upon, pulled/ate off tape, flesh, and remains....

It is said in this article that the DNA could of been from the tech.

"Snip" According to court documents reviewed by Tony Pipitone, the DNA Kenney-Baden is referring to is consistent with another FBI analyst who touched the tape. There is not enough DNA to say it was the analyst for sure, but there is also not enough evidence for the defense to go as far as to say it was a stranger's DNA. http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21341783/detail.html

 

[Harmony 2]

You know you brought up a good theory. If there was other DNA on the tape other than the Lab Tech it could very well be that DNA of an "Animal", since it is a known fact that animals will scavenger - feed off human remains and maybe they gnawed upon, pulled/ate off tape, flesh, and remains....

It is said in this article that the DNA could of been from the tech.

Good morning everyone!!

LKB is highly qualified in the area of DNA and is world renowned. This is what she said about the partial DNA (from that link): "Another party that did not belong to the FBI, did not belong to the law enforcement, did not belong to the Anthony family, left DNA on that duct tape," defense attorney Linda Kenney-Baden said. Apparently she ruled out the FBI lab tech somehow. I would think she knows more about DNA then Pipitone. Regardless it looks bad if there was contamination not just once, but twice, by the FBI. Just my :twocents: .

 

[Valhall]

Good morning everyone!!

LKB is highly qualified in the area of DNA and is world renowned. This is what she said about the partial DNA (from that link): "Another party that did not belong to the FBI, did not belong to the law enforcement, did not belong to the Anthony family, left DNA on that duct tape," defense attorney Linda Kenney-Baden said. Apparently she ruled out the FBI lab tech somehow. I would think she knows more about DNA then Pipitone. Regardless it looks bad if there was contamination not just once, but twice, by the FBI. Just my :twocents: .

She ruled it out because of the 17 in the first allele. But BB has a 17 in the first allele, and that's why I'm saying that LKB - in all her "expertise" - is walking on shaky ground by trying to emphasize this allele. This potentially ties the shovel (which had BB's DNA on it) to Caylee's remains. So LKB can "speculate" that this is some unknown person she can't produce DNA for, but she's going to have to contend with the SA being able to produce BB's DNA off a shovel potentially used in the "management" of this dead body.

 

[MissJames]

Good morning everyone!!

LKB is highly qualified in the area of DNA and is world renowned. This is what she said about the partial DNA (from that link): "Another party that did not belong to the FBI, did not belong to the law enforcement, did not belong to the Anthony family, left DNA on that duct tape," defense attorney Linda Kenney-Baden said. Apparently she ruled out the FBI lab tech somehow. I would think she knows more about DNA then Pipitone. Regardless it looks bad if there was contamination not just once, but twice, by the FBI. Just my :twocents: .

I thought Pipitone was reporting what the FBI said. :waitasec:I don't think he came up with that himself.I think there were several markers consistant with the FBI tech but not enough DNA to test to show conclusively [scientifically] that it was the techs.Common sense says it is.There is no DNA of Caylee on the tape.The logical conclusion is that ANY dna on there came after the recovery.
LKB is very good at smoke and mirrors.Let's see if she can get an expert to rule out the lab tech under oath.
JMO

 

[Harmony 2]

She ruled it out because of the 17 in the first allele. But BB has a 17 in the first allele, and that's why I'm saying that LKB - in all her "expertise" - is walking on shaky ground by trying to emphasize this allele. This potentially ties the shovel (which had BB's DNA on it) to Caylee's remains. So LKB can "speculate" that this is some unknown person she can't produce DNA for, but she's going to have to contend with the SA being able to produce BB's DNA off a shovel potentially used in the "management" of this dead body.

It depends if you believe the duct tape was the mechanism of death. Is the duct tape the reason 'homicide' was determined? If so then the shovel was borrowed two days after the application of the duct tape. Unless Casey readjusted the duct tape there would be no need to touch it again when she was getting ready to dump Caylee at Suburban. I think the unknown DNA may belong to someone at the factory during production and may have remained there in between the overlapping portion of the tape. Again just MHO.

To clarify, I do not think the duct tape was applied after she died.

 

[Harmony 2]

I thought Pipitone was reporting what the FBI said. :waitasec:I don't think he came up with that himself.I think there were several markers consistant with the FBI tech but not enough DNA to test to show conclusively [scientifically] that it was the techs.Common sense says it is.There is no DNA of Caylee on the tape.The logical conclusion is that ANY dna on there came after the recovery.
LKB is very good at smoke and mirrors.Let's see if she can get an expert to rule out the lab tech under oath.
JMO

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21341783/detail.html

According to this statement it appears he was reviewing court documents so it seems it was his interpretation:

According to court documents reviewed by Local 6 investigative reporter Tony Pipitone, the DNA Kenney-Baden is referring to is consistent with another FBI analyst who touched the tape.

I agree, she will have to get an expert to testify to that under oath.

 

[notthatsmart]

P 9646: Blue cotton fibers removed from:

Q60 - skull debris (several)
Q62-Q64 - skull duct tape (one)
Q66 - gas can duct tape (quantity not specified)

I dont get it. How can we say that the cotton from the duct tape decomposed and is gone, yet we have several blue cotton fibers in the skull area that did not decompose?

 

[cecybeans]

Harmony, that sounds like an explanation a jury would go for. If Caylee's dna was too degraded to be found on the tape, it stands logical that any other dna found after her recovery would be more recent.

Also, I keep thinking of two possibilities with the fourth piece of duct tape. It not only looked a bit chewed to me at the one end, but kind of stretched, perhaps as if KC was trying to use one hand and their mouth to tear it off, while restraining Caylee with the other. It didn't work, so she dropped the piece of tape on her chest, and started over, this time straddling her and using her knees to pin down Caylee's arms, so both her hands were free.

Or, and this one would support the ante-mortem application theory, Caylee may have pulled and tugged on the top piece of tape and gotten it off somehow (perhaps it remained in or near her hand or chest) before she died. I'm not sure how the tape was found or if it had enough adhesive left after the elements to remain scrunched up or twisted and stuck to itself. I tend to think this would have been less possible; duct tape is hard enough for adults to remove, much less a panicked toddler.

 

[magic-cat]

I dont get it. How can we say that the cotton from the duct tape decomposed and is gone, yet we have several blue cotton fibers in the skull area that did not decompose?

Those few fibers survived...:innocent:

 

[Valhall]

I dont get it. How can we say that the cotton from the duct tape decomposed and is gone, yet we have several blue cotton fibers in the skull area that did not decompose?

Hey there! Long-time no speaky...where ya been?

 

[celticthyme]

She ruled it out because of the 17 in the first allele. But BB has a 17 in the first allele, and that's why I'm saying that LKB - in all her "expertise" - is walking on shaky ground by trying to emphasize this allele. This potentially ties the shovel (which had BB's DNA on it) to Caylee's remains. So LKB can "speculate" that this is some unknown person she can't produce DNA for, but she's going to have to contend with the SA being able to produce BB's DNA off a shovel potentially used in the "management" of this dead body.

My thinking is not clear . . but if the theory is that the tape was the murfer weapon, and she used the shovel after the fact, are you implying that casey was the transfer of the BB DNA to the tape somehow?? Leaving a ? partial print??

 

[snow_walker]

Seems to me that the bush area was so contaminated with debris of all sorts, that the strange bit of dna coud have come from anywhere.. an animal, or a bit of human skin debris that made brief contact with the tape at some point after the body was left, but before the remains were found.. or perhaps it was inadvertantly stepped on by one of the LE searchers, and picked up a speck of human dna from something on his/her shoes...I am surprised there isn't more 'junk' dna after all that tape and the other evidence has been through.
Anyway, since there is none of Caylee's dna on that tape, then it most likely got there after her body was left.

I tend to believe the extra piece of tape was dropped during the struggle to tape her little face, and was just left lying on her chest or wherever it fell, possibly crinkled up and useless for KC's purposes.. almost seems likely that such a thing would happen as she tried to restrain the child and Caylee struggled. I get tape crinkled up even when I have both hands free and am not dealing with life and death issues.

I have to make a space in my head between Caylee, the little girl, and what happened to 'the body that was Caylee' .. it is just about as silly as the A's and their fantasies, but it is something I do to preserve my own peace of mind.. forgive if I am too graphic, it is not meant in anyway to be disrespectful to Caylee.

 

[notthatsmart]

Hey there! Long-time no speaky...where ya been?

Reading the docs and threads.

 

[notthatsmart]

Does anyone know if the pictures of the gas can with duct tape on it is from the first time LE confinscated the can or if the pic is from the Second time they confinscated the can?

 

[AZlawyer]

I dont get it. How can we say that the cotton from the duct tape decomposed and is gone, yet we have several blue cotton fibers in the skull area that did not decompose?

Some of the cotton shirt survived, too--mainly the reinforced parts. The decomposition process would not cause all cotton in the area to disappear all at once. The process would be slower or faster depending upon the specific characteristics of the cotton fibers in question and where they were located.

We know there was originally cotton in the duct tape backing, because Henkel didn't make any duct tape with the "200 degree" logo with no cotton. Do you have an alternate explanation for how the cotton disappeared, besides decomposition?

 

[Valhall]

My thinking is not clear . . but if the theory is that the tape was the murfer weapon, and she used the shovel after the fact, are you implying that casey was the transfer of the BB DNA to the tape somehow?? Leaving a ? partial print??

I guess one would have to accept that the tape was the murder weapon. I personally don't. But, yeah, it is very possible that shovel blade, or KC's hand after handling the shovel handle, could have touch the exposed edge of a piece of duct tape. I don't see that as even unreasonable.