The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?

[MEMEto5]

In Netflix Part7,

How the h*ll would they know at that point that the key on the floor was the key to TH's RAV4 ? The Averys ran a junkyard with hundreds of cars and probably had hundreds of keys. At that point in time, the key could've been to any car on the lot.

I think that is avery good question!

 

[Justiceseeker35]

It's been over two years since I've posted, probably. I actually did the opposite as most people in this case, as I researched and read up on the case prior to watching the documentary. I'll start by saying I'm very pro cop. I used to be a correctional nurse, and I watched tons of inmates take advantage of the system, treat LE like crap, and complain about how unfair their sentences are. I went into the documentary fully expecting to hate Steven Avery and have no question of his guilt. I'm an animal lover, and the cat burning had me seeing red. (Yes, I admit to being someone who would lose their minds if someone harmed any of my animals!) I came out of the research and viewing of the show on the fence.

My problem is simple. The darn key. Kratz made some bs comment about the fact that even if you believe the key was planted, it shouldn't matter. (I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist.) He's wrong. As soon as you believe the key "may" have been planted, you begin to question what other evidence could be tampered with. That's my reasonable doubt. Sadly, SA may be guilty, I just don't know what we can trust from the poisoned evidence. This makes me sad and angry for Teresa's family.

I tend to agree here, this calls into question all evidence "found" collected by MCSO
Given that the Detectives, LT in question who weren't even supposed to be searching the trailer were there that day the key was found only minutes before were collecting blood swabs in his bathroom. Then the key miraculously appeared with SA blood on it really gives me pause about the validity of the key. I had a real weird thought yesterday. And the weird thought was how far they were willing to go to frame him. Based on the prior 18 years wrongfully in prison I'd say pretty far. So let's supposed the absolute worst, they knew where and how TH died. They had access to his property after the family left town and before she was reported missing and had all that access to keys, bones, bullets, his gun, his blood. Is it possible that they submitted the blood samples collected in the bathroom as blood samples from the car ie swapped them or labeled them as the rav 4 blood? Truly if they had his dna on file in that blood vial and "knew" she was never in the trailer and knew where she died then why would they need to swab his blood in the bath room at all? Unless they intend to either plant it or use it as blood from another location.

 

[Soulmagent]

I tend to agree here, this calls into question all evidence "found" collected by MCSO
Given that the Detectives, LT in question who weren't even supposed to be searching the trailer were there that day the key was found only minutes before were collecting blood swabs in his bathroom. Then the key miraculously appeared with SA blood on it really gives me pause about the validity of the key. I had a real weird thought yesterday. And the weird thought was how far they were willing to go to frame him. Based on the prior 18 years wrongfully in prison I'd say pretty far. So let's supposed the absolute worst, they knew where and how TH died. They had access to his property after the family left town and before she was reported missing and had all that access to keys, bones, bullets, his gun, his blood. Is it possible that they submitted the blood samples collected in the bathroom as blood samples from the car ie swapped them or labeled them as the rav 4 blood? Truly if they had his dna on file in that blood vial and "knew" she was never in the trailer and knew where she died then why would they need to swab his blood in the bath room at all? Unless they intend to either plant it or use it as blood from another location.

I think that key could have been in the RAV4 in the glovebox , where the Valet key is supposed to go.

 

[KayCerynPage1990]

I don't know if you guys have seen it in the news but there has now been questions raised over a ring of keys that are clearly visible in a picture of Hallbach where she seems to be carrying a bunch as opposed to a single key.

In earlier pictures of the bookshelf and in the sheriffs video in Episode 2 or 3 you can clearly see a huge ring of keys on it. I was wondering if these were ever looked at or if you had ever spotted them? Find it weird that they disappear in the later shot.

I noticed it a few weeks ago and for me it was unusual, in theory her other keys could have been on there too, going with the assumption he killed her which I obviously don't agree with.

 

[MysticJynx]

They did those other swabs and such cause they needed to keep up appearances. However for all I know the way the pictures look of that shelf they never moved it. They were probably all sitting on his bed playing cards for all I know. Did you know they did not take that piece of furniture as evidence until Dec. 2005.

 

[MysticJynx]

Only if you can tie Lenk to other evidence found and collected. Except, that's not possible. Because Lenk didn't find the other evidence in the case. So were all the officers and crime scene folks in on a conspiracy?

He may not have been the one to point out the bullet but he was there on both days. So if it was possible for him to drop a key on the floor then I dont think it would have been hard for him to drop a bullet the day before they found it. Lenk and Colborn should never have been on SA's lot. That is why the other evidence is questionable. He was there when they heard the message on the answering machine. He was on the lot the day they found the car. He was on the lot the day they found the bones. In fact out of 200 officers it seems the only team that was involved in collecting actual evidence from inside any of the trailers and garage was the team of 3 manitowoc sheriff's officers and one Calumet officer. For a lead in the investigation it should have been 3 calumet to 1 manitowoc officer. They were never not together on that lot. a lot they should have recused themselves from as they did in the public's eye back in Nov 2005.

 

[kodi]

He may not have been the one to point out the bullet but he was there on both days. So if it was possible for him to drop a key on the floor then I dont think it would have been hard for him to drop a bullet the day before they found it. Lenk and Colborn should never have been on SA's lot. That is why the other evidence is questionable. He was there when they heard the message on the answering machine. He was on the lot the day they found the car. He was on the lot the day they found the bones. In fact out of 200 officers it seems the only team that was involved in collecting actual evidence from inside any of the trailers and garage was the team of 3 manitowoc sheriff's officers and one Calumet officer. For a lead in the investigation it should have been 3 calumet to 1 manitowoc officer. They were never not together on that lot. a lot they should have recused themselves from as they did in the public's eye back in Nov 2005.

BBM

I completely agree with this. With the availability of 200 officers on the property to help collect evidence, they should never been on that lot. JMO

 

[MysticJynx]

The damage happened via the machinery used to move the car. In terms of the keys, I have to believe that there are people that know definitively if she had other keys on her ring.

That picture is not one that I'd use to make my point, as I can't really tell. I believe she had more keys.

The damage was not done moving her vehicle out from the area it was, to the state crime lab that is a lie. I will post a picture in just a few as to why i think that. Where did you hear that?

This is clearly before the cops even got there. this picture was taken by the Sturms. The Ertl guy also notes it that there was damage there in his first assessment when he arrived.

And by the mud inside there I would think it was driven somewhere without this wheel well

 

[missy1974]

Thanks for finding that Mystic!!!!! This has been driving me crazy LOL I did see that the officers noted the front light cover was cracked or damaged... from this picture, I think the light cover is still there... so the light cover may have come off while moving the vehicle.... and it was thrown in the back of the vehicle ( I know you posted a pic of this before)... hmmm, just wait..... when was it thrown in the back of the vehicle if the vehicle was locked??????
But from looking at that picture... the wheel well is definitely not there, that is why you can see the back of the light.

 

[missy1974]

DAY 6, page 20:
Ertl testimony about the RAV4
16 Q. Did you notice whether there was any damage to

17 the vehicle at all?

18 A. Yes, once we got the debris away from it, there

19 was a scratch behind the Rambler hood. And then

20 this front end had a little bit of collision

21 damage, the lens on the light was cracked or

22 broken and there was some denting to the window.

he says cracked or broken.... not knocked off or not there.

 

[MysticJynx]

Thanks for finding that Mystic!!!!! This has been driving me crazy LOL I did see that the officers noted the front light cover was cracked or damaged... from this picture, I think the light cover is still there... so the light cover may have come off while moving the vehicle.... and it was thrown in the back of the vehicle ( I know you posted a pic of this before)... hmmm, just wait..... when was it thrown in the back of the vehicle if the vehicle was locked??????
But from looking at that picture... the wheel well is definitely not there, that is why you can see the back of the light.

Look closer that is not the back of the light that is seeing through to the trees in front of it. the light was already in the back of the vehicle locked. and the wheel well is no where to be found.

So the question is when did this damage happen it clearly happened before it was parked there. But I haven't seen any mention by TH's family and friends that she was in small accident on this date or that date.

Maybe he was referring to the headlight that was still in place. this is the turn signal light that is back there.

 

[MysticJynx]

Does anyone find it weird that AC was off on the day of NOV 4 2005, and can't really remember what it is he did that day.

 

[missy1974]

Does anyone find it weird that AC was off on the day of NOV 4 2005, and can't really remember what it is he did that day.

YESSSSSS! they make mention that sometime later he did recall what he did, but I don't see where it states what that was in the transcripts! I have jumped around with the transcripts a bit, so I've read his testimony. (there were some things that I just had to read LOL), and now I have gone back and started from the beginning.
Also of note... He doesn't even know what time that call was, and in the transcripts, the call was on a CD that had calls ranging from November 3rd-12th. AC didn't work the 4th, so he assumed it was the 3rd. She wasn't reported missing until the 3rd and the SUV was found on the 5th (not by him), but he didn't work on the 4th, so it must of been the 3rd. Hope that makes sense? lol

 

[Madeleine74]

How long after Nov 4, 2005 was he asked what he was doing on that particular day?

 

[MysticJynx]

How long after Nov 4, 2005 was he asked what he was doing on that particular day?

Ok.. Does it matter. He supposedly remembers word for word what SA says to him in the Jun, 29 2006 statement he contributed. But on Jan 11 2007 he cant remember where he was during what became one of the biggest investigations of WI. When he was on the scene from the day she was reported missing. But for court he testifies he remembers that he wasn't anywhere near the Avery Yard.

That may be true. Maybe he was else where? where was he? he was caught calling in her plates the night before and no one knows where he is the next day?

If he was planting stuff this would be good opportunity to start doing so to get it in the yard by Nov 5. Also most everyone was gone by the evening of Nov 4th from the property to go up north to the family cabin. So there it begs to question if Earl Stays on the land but he doesn't have a trailer there like the parents the brother CA and BJ besides SA. So chances are business closes and he leaves. Leaving the property open for planting between Nov 4th evening and Nov 5 morning. In which on Nov the boss called in the change of plans to go search that area before the searchers even found the car.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well for instance, if you ask me today (Jan 20, 2016) what I was doing on Nov 5, 2015, I couldn't answer it without at least consulting my calendar both from work and my personal calendar. That would be the only way I'd have a chance of remembering, unless that particular date was a special date (like a Bday or anniversary). If you asked me on Nov 6, 2015 what I did on Nov 5, 2015 then yes I would have remembered.

So IMO it does matter because as time passes it becomes more difficult to remember activities on some individual day without something to help jog the memory.

 

[MysticJynx]

Well for instance, if you ask me today (Jan 20, 2016) what I was doing on Nov 5, 2015, I couldn't answer it without at least consulting my calendar both from work and my personal calendar. That would be the only way I'd have a chance of remembering, unless that particular date was a special date (like a Bday or anniversary). If you asked me on Nov 6, 2015 what I did on Nov 5, 2015 then yes I would have remembered.

So IMO it does matter because as time passes it becomes more difficult to remember activities on some individual day without something to help jog the memory.

Which would be fair. However after consulting his memory with whatever means all he can really tell you is that on that day he was not there. I actually believe him. But he doesn't disclose this info after supposedly remembering it, to the investigator that questioned him, and he still don't say well I know I wasn't there cause I was here. Which makes it questionable. He very well could have been involved in the planting of evidence. he had a whole day off that he was not at the averys to go an do the other things needed. Such as JL directing him to the blood in the Clerks office.

 

[ElleElle]

The damage happened via the machinery used to move the car. In terms of the keys, I have to believe that there are people that know definitively if she had other keys on her ring.

That picture is not one that I'd use to make my point, as I can't really tell. I believe she had more keys.

BBM ~ Agreed. I believe there was a whole set. Where are they?

Also, why keep a key in a bedroom in or near a nightstand? Just leave it in the ignition or door. It had not fingerprints on it.

 

[missy1974]

I'm the same way.... I would need some sort of event to jog my memory.

I think it is fair to say that TH going missing and the "biggest search in WI history" would be considered an event?

I might remember what I did between the night I started to investigate and the SUV being found and a huge search being conducted. He was called and went out to Avery's and I think Zipperers too, worked late that night.... then he has a day off... then the SUV was found on the morning of the 5th. Maybe he didn't see it as a big event.

Also... considering he had a history of writing reports "late" (months... and sometimes even years later), I imagine his memory is phenomenal and he should have remembered! IMO

 

[missy1974]

BBM ~ Agreed. I believe there was a whole set. Where are they?

Also, why keep a key in a bedroom in or near a nightstand? Just leave it in the ignition or door. It had not fingerprints on it.

I have read testimony that she had a house key, a garage key, and at least 1 key for her studio on her key chain. This is from combined testimony from her brother and her business partner.

Where are those keys??????