The Life Insurance Policies on Dr. Sievers

[ATasteOfHoney]

Hmmm, FTO...maybe that is why this story made it to the INSURANCE FRAUD NEWS REPORT. And thank you to NIN for finding that published report..."Where there's smoke....." (Please read post #166 & 167 on the life insurance policy thread).
Somebody "dropped the ball" big time during the underwriting process. If the norm is to issue a policy for 5 to 10 times annual earnings....WHO THE HECK UNDERWRITES a life insurance policy for an UNEMPLOYED MAN with no stocks, bonds, investments, mutual funds, for $2.5 million dollars???? IT DOESN'T MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE!! Unless of course, he didn't want his wife to get suspicious when he applied for large amounts of insurance by saying, "I got the same policy for me, too!!!"

Because insurance companies are **for profit** and they will be happy to take your money. They analyze the inherit risks of each policy & make their business decisions within very broad parameters & regulations. That's the real deal.
Now I just wish that there were laws put in place whereby policies taken out in my name (or yours) that would be paid out should we die (even by an employer) would be known to me AND/OR if I was a beneficiary of a policy OR I am removed as a beneficiary -- there should be an official notification sent-- that would be awesome but it doesn't exist right now.
For life insurance policy guidelines, it's all done under the broad "insurable interest" clause whose parameters just need to be established upon the initiation of a policy. They do not terminate if the relationship status changes. They terminate if you fail to pay the premiums. So I reiterate, it's all about business decisions, broad State regulations, and profits.

 

[atthelake]

Because insurance companies are **for profit** and they will be happy to take your money. They analyze the inherit risks of each policy & make their business decisions within very broad parameters & regulations. That's the real deal.
Now I just wish that there were laws put in place whereby policies taken out in my name (or yours) that would be paid out should we die (even by an employer) would be known to me AND/OR if I was a beneficiary of a policy OR I am removed as a beneficiary -- there should be an official notification sent-- that would be awesome but it doesn't exist right now.
For life insurance policy guidelines, it's all done under the broad "insurable interest" clause whose parameters just need to be established upon the initiation of a policy. They do not terminate if the relationship status changes. They terminate if you fail to pay the premiums. So I reiterate, it's all about business decisions, broad State regulations, and profits.

Am i understanding you correctly? E.g. Are you saying that beneficiaries should know that they are beneficiaries of my life insurance, my will and my IRA and general financial holdings? ...and what the value of that policy/ my holdings would be when papers are drafted or they are designated as beneficiaries?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Am i understanding you correctly? E.g. Are you saying that beneficiaries should know that they are beneficiaries of my life insurance, my will and my IRA and general financial holdings? ...and what the value of that policy/ my holdings would be when papers are drafted or they are designated as beneficiaries?

I am strictly only talking about life insurance policies and the designated beneficiaries.

 

[al66pine]

"

Originally Posted by FightTheOstrich TS didn't go solo until 2006. What was MS doing in 2005? Idk, maybe he was the nanny??? Will an insurance company assign a dollar amount [1] like $40,000 to a stay at home parent???"

I'm wondering if the 40k is attributable to rent received, cashing out investments, or capital gains from the sale of real estate [2]?I'm sure the insurance company required verification. [3]

[1]
I thought I saw a policy app in handwriting showing $40,000 for MS earned income in ~ 2005 and thinking to myself - MS provided $ amt to ins co, not that ins co assigned a $ value to SaH parent.
I also thought, 'doubtful.' But now I now cannot find the handwritten notation in DocDump. Bates # 3141 "EA Case View" printout shows earned income, Dr TS = $350,000, MS = $40,000 but I thought I saw that same info in handwriting.

[2]
Life ins policy app printout (see FightTheOstrich ~6 posts back) has two "$40,000" responses:
- one for Dr TS unearned inc. If she had student loans outstanding from med school, as I thought I read, is it likely she had that much unearned inc?
- one for spouse's income (not specifying earned or unearned, presumably both?)
$40,000 figure could have come from combo of
----- his earned income (if any) that yr, plus
----- his passive income, like rent rcvd, cap gains, real est, if MS had real est other than Fenton/StL MO area condo, which he is still holding. Or other investmts, like securities. Could he could have held a job long enough to have significant retirement a/c liquidated in 2005?

[3]
Maybe our ins. co underwriting professionals will ring in, pls. To verify, ins co could ask applicant to authorize employer to release salary info or applicant to provide W-2 or 1040 copy. My knowledge re life ins app procedures is stale but doubt verification would be routine. But this death benefit amt may not have bn routine.

JM2cts.

 

[KateB]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE
Doc Dump 2 Binder1.pdf is 1079 pages of insurance documents.
Bates 3082 - 4187

3872 is a policy application for:

Mark D. Sievers Irrevocable Trust
Teresa A. Sievers, Trustee

3781 is the application for coverage for MS himself.

I'm not sure what all this means, but I think this batch of documents might deserve closer scrutiny.

 

[SeesSeas]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE
Doc Dump 2 Binder1.pdf is 1079 pages of insurance documents.
Bates 3082 - 4187

3872 is a policy application for:

Mark D. Sievers Irrevocable Trust
Teresa A. Sievers, Trustee

3781 is the application for coverage for MS himself.

I'm not sure what all this means, but I think this batch of documents might deserve closer scrutiny.

Nice sleuthing KateB!
Interesting Details – 2006 Life Insurance Application of MARK D SIEVERS
Doc Dump 2 Binder 1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE/view?pref=2&pli=1
Images are unclear in some areas, but this is what I read:

BATES 3820
Jackson National Life Insurance Company
Name of proposed applicant – MARK D SIEVERS
New Application
Dated 02/15/2006; Signed 7 March 2006

BATES 3822
Jackson National Life Insurance Company
Confidential Financial Statement
MARK D SIEVERS
Purpose of Insurance – Purpose of Current Application
MY WIFE IS A DOCTOR & MAKES ROUGHLY 450,000 ANNUALLY. IF I DIED, SHE WOULD HAVE TO BE THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER FOR OUR 21 MONTH DAUGHTER.

Annual Income
-------------Salary / Unearned Income
This Year $ 50,000 / 37,000
Last Year $ 50,000 / 17,000 (? – poor image quality)

Assets $1,800,000
Liabilities $1,050,000
Net Worth $ 750,000

 

[al66pine]

Nice sleuthing KateB!
Interesting Details – 2006 Life Insurance Application of MARK D SIEVERS
Doc Dump 2 Binder 1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE/view?pref=2&pli=1
Images are unclear in some areas, but this is what I read:

BATES 3820
Jackson National Life Insurance Company
Name of proposed applicant – MARK D SIEVERS
New Application
Dated 02/15/2006; Signed 7 March 2006

BATES 3822
Jackson National Life Insurance Company
Confidential Financial Statement
MARK D SIEVERS
Purpose of Insurance – Purpose of Current Application
MY WIFE IS A DOCTOR & MAKES ROUGHLY 450,000 ANNUALLY. IF I DIED, SHE WOULD HAVE TO BE THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER FOR OUR 21 MONTH DAUGHTER.

Annual Income
-------------Salary / Unearned Income
This Year $ 50,000 / 37,000
Last Year $ 50,000 / 17,000 (? – poor image quality)

Hey, SeesSeas and Kate B Good catch.

"Annual Income
-------------Salary / Unearned Income
This Year $ 50,000 / 37,000
Last Year $ 50,000 / 17,000 (? – poor image quality)"

(rbm) Wondering where MS' ^ unearned income originated? Issues = (1) part of total fin. pix for MS & Dr TS; (2) his (in)ability or reluctance to tell truth.

Not that much $ from renting his & CWW's MO condo (if CWW was not living there, & if rented).
Other real est or prop's he rented?
Other business interests - his LLC ref'ed in doc's, Univ. Communications something, est'ed in MO?
Other passive invmts, e.g. stocks, bonds, mutual funds, REITs, ETFs, etc (brokerage a/c).

Perhaps $ recvd thru a structured settlement from lawsuit, paid annually?
Or $ thru inheritance paid in 2 unequal sums over 2 (or more) yrs?

Anyone who has seen all dumped doc's seen their fed. 1040s & schedules A, B, C, E?
St of FL Intangible Tax (still in effect in 2006, http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/tips/tip07c02-01.html) form?

Info in either or both of those ^ could reveal whether he (&/or Dr TS) had passive income or other unearned income - that was the basis for above $, or whether those $ figures were pulled from somebody's wazoo (sp?). JM2cts.

 

[Dmacky]

Respectively snipped for space ~

Hey, SeeSeas and Kate B Good catch.

"Annual Income
-------------Salary / Unearned Income
This Year $ 50,000 / 37,000
Last Year $ 50,000 / 17,000 (? – poor image quality)"

(rbm) Wondering where MS' ^ unearned income originated? Issues = (1) part of total fin. pix for MS & Dr TS; (2) his (in)ability or reluctance to tell truth.

BBM
Since unearned income is money that you receive without doing any “work” for it, that answer could be office manager :giggle:

 

[IQuestion]

Nice sleuthing KateB!
Interesting Details – 2006 Life Insurance Application of MARK D SIEVERS
Doc Dump 2 Binder 1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE/view?pref=2&pli=1
Images are unclear in some areas, but this is what I read:

BATES 3820
Jackson National Life Insurance Company
Name of proposed applicant – MARK D SIEVERS
New Application
Dated 02/15/2006; Signed 7 March 2006

BATES 3822
Jackson National Life Insurance Company
Confidential Financial Statement
MARK D SIEVERS
Purpose of Insurance – Purpose of Current Application
MY WIFE IS A DOCTOR & MAKES ROUGHLY 450,000 ANNUALLY. IF I DIED, SHE WOULD HAVE TO BE THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER FOR OUR 21 MONTH DAUGHTER.

Annual Income
-------------Salary / Unearned Income
This Year $ 50,000 / 37,000
Last Year $ 50,000 / 17,000 (? – poor image quality)

Assets $1,800,000
Liabilities $1,050,000
Net Worth $ 750,000

Excellent work, SEESSEAS. (I'm not going to do anymore research & note taking...pushed it all to your side of the table!lol.) It is interesting he now reported TS's income as $450,000 per year...and increase of 100k, over the last application. And attributes most of his "Net Worth" to the equity in real estate holdings. Shortly after, the real estate crash of 2007-2008 erased all equity.
So I can understand the "negative equity." But what I don't get and will NEVER understand is the underwriters approving a $1.5 million dollar policy for a "full time, stay at home parent."....it doesn't make sense.
The amounts of insurance, and their willingness to keep so much in force, despite their financial woes. (YES, I think foreclosure proceedings and failure to pay taxes as "financial woes." )
Nothing makes sense and the relationship with insurance companies even more bizarre. On one hand MS claimed working with insurance companies for medical billing was a difficult, on the other hand..he faithfully paid insurance companies for benefits in the event of his wife's death. Hmmm, I guess his ambivalence towards insurance companies was based on whether or not he "got his fair share"?? (Not a criticism, just an observation....since he was the office manager.)

 

[al66pine]

Respectively snipped for space ~
BBM
Since unearned income is money that you receive without doing any “work” for it, that answer could be office manager :giggle:

Dmacky, yes, LOL, could be, on a common sense basis.

But seriously, anybody seen 1040s or other docs suggesting MS (and/or) DrTS had unearned inc?

 

[Dmacky]

What's very odd to me is that on every single one of HIS life insurance policies he has listed his mother as the beneficiary. But Teresa, God rest her sweet soul, named him on them all :frown:

 

[1&2&3]

Now I just wish that there were laws put in place whereby policies taken out in my name (or yours) that would be paid out should we die (even by an employer) would be known to me AND/OR if I was a beneficiary of a policy OR I am removed as a beneficiary -- there should be an official notification sent-- that would be awesome but it doesn't exist right now.

Snipped for content

There are several reasons I totally agree with you on the fact that notifications should be sent. I have seen too many long term second marriages where the wife has been excluded or left little because adult children from the first marriage have talked dad into changing his will when he was in failing health. Or children of a first marriage are totally excluded because the second wife has convinced dad that "their" children need the money. Another good one is in a divorce, the father is to keep the children as beneficiaries until they turn 18. He slyly reduces each child's amount with each of their birthdays. Oh, it goes on and on. While there are many honest trustworthy people, there are also too many that have a hidden devious side.

 

[Sabra]

But what I don't get and will NEVER understand is the underwriters approving a $1.5 million dollar policy for a "full time, stay at home parent."....it doesn't make sense.

One of the reasons people have what seem to be excessive policies like this is for medical expenses. It can be really expensive to die in a hospital, even if the person is there only a short time. Another reason is to replace an annual salary until retirement. And a big reason is to pay off their large debts.

Assets $1,800,000
Liabilities $1,050,000
Net Worth $ 750,000

Here it lists liabilities of just over a million dollars, and the policy is for a million and a half. So if Mark were to die after a stay in ICU, the hope would be that the insurance would pay for the medical expenses, the funeral and/or wake, and also pay off the liabilities, leaving the remaining family in the clear.

 

[howonkee]

I've been wondering how LE came to find out about all the different life insurance policies since MS only revealed one on him and one on her in his interviews. Do you think they were all in a safe? What if they weren't? How would LE locate any policies? Is there some special life insurance database that is kept on insured people?

 

[Legally Bland]

I've been wondering how LE came to find out about all the different life insurance policies since MS only revealed one on him and one on her in his interviews. Do you think they were all in a safe? What if they weren't? How would LE locate any policies? Is there some special life insurance database that is kept on insured people?

It looks like the ICA sent a circular round their members requesting the info (dump 1):



ETA: That's pretty hard to read, so have c&p'd body of text:

LAW ENFORCEMENT INQUIRY

FOR ICA MEMBERSHIP USE ONLY

July 13, 2015


Number 15-0166​

Detective Myra Simmons with the Lee County Sheriff's Office is requesting investigative assistance from the membership of the International Claim Association.


Detective Simmons is conducting a criminal investigation regarding the listed individual. It has been requested we search our records to determine if the individual is named on a life insurance policy with your company.

Decedent: Teresa Ann Sievers
DOB: 11-19-1968
SSN:
LKA: Bonita Springs, Florida
Date of Death: 06-29-2015


Only respond to Detective Simmons if the individual is named on a life insurance policy with your company. Please obtain copies of your supporting documentation and contact:

Detective Myra Simmons
Lee County Sheriff's Office
Bonita Springs, Florida
Telephone: (239) 477-1124​

Forward this LAW ENFORCEMENT INQUIRY to the person in your company delegated the responsibility of investigating suspicious or fraudulent claims issues.

The disclosure of this request may impede the subject investigation, and may
be tantamount to a violation of state and federal law.

 

[howonkee]

Thank you, Legally Bland!

 

[IQuestion]

I've been wondering how LE came to find out about all the different life insurance policies since MS only revealed one on him and one on her in his interviews. Do you think they were all in a safe? What if they weren't? How would LE locate any policies? Is there some special life insurance database that is kept on insured people?

YES...Howonkee...

 

[passionflower]

just a possibility............the news.
O/T my uncle always bragged that he did not have any life insurance because it was stupid.
He was killed in an accident while on a state job.
The next day insurance reps were starting to contact my aunt.
He had over a million dollars of insurance in different companies that she never knew of.
I am sure many companies found this by news and do not want to pay to working with LE...........JMOO

 

[IQuestion]

One of the reasons people have what seem to be excessive policies like this is for medical expenses. It can be really expensive to die in a hospital, even if the person is there only a short time. Another reason is to replace an annual salary until retirement. And a big reason is to pay off their large debts.


Here it lists liabilities of just over a million dollars, and the policy is for a million and a half. So if Mark were to die after a stay in ICU, the hope would be that the insurance would pay for the medical expenses, the funeral and/or wake, and also pay off the liabilities, leaving the remaining family in the clear.

SABRA...First of all, I DID NOT POST/author assets, Liabilities, Net worth...It was a quote from SeesSeas! And BTW SeesSeas put a lot of work into the post and I would not want to take credit for her brilliant work. (My Father always said, "Don't take blame or credit for something you didn't do".)

Claiming the need is for support for the family or paying off debts doesn't make sense. He hadn't been supporting his family, nor was he paying off any debts.
At some point, life insurance has to make financial sense.....this didn't make sense.
Disability insurance, Accident insurance, Medical Insurance, Auto Insurance, Homeowners Insurance, Business Liability, Malpractice Insurance......Hmmm, life insurance as the primary vehicle to pay medical bills. (Although conceivable, medical providers will be in bad shape if people purchase life insurance to pay medical bills, instead of health insurance, huh?) Even more comical would be to tell a hospital, if you let me die....my life insurance will take care of my ICU bill. And, if I live, you get nothing because I am a stay at home parent! Don't forget there is also "a Federal mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance."

 

[al66pine]

just a possibility............the news.
O/T my uncle always bragged that he did not have any life insurance because it was stupid.
He was killed in an accident while on a state job.
The next day insurance reps were starting to contact my aunt.
He had over a million dollars of insurance in different companies that she never knew of.
I am sure many companies found this by news and do not want to pay to working with LE...........JMOO

"I am sure many companies found this by news and do not want to pay to working with LE."
Not following meaning of ^bbm.
The ins co's (or who?) do not want to....what?...work w LE?