The Life Insurance Policies on Dr. Sievers

[SurfieTX]

Hmmm...

A Florida podiatrist accused of killing his estranged wife is using part of her life insurance settlement to pay for his defense.

The Tallahassee Democrat reports that 48-year-old Dr. Adam Frasch pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder in the death of Samira Frasch, whose body was found at the bottom of their home’s swimming pool in February 2014.

Court records show a settlement on Samira Frasch’s $1 million life insurance policy was reached last month. It grants $200,000 to her husband’s criminal defense attorney, $25,000 to a civil attorney and $150,000 directly to Adam Frasch.

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2015/11/25/390083.htm

 

[IQuestion]

Hmmm...



http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2015/11/25/390083.htm

SURFIETX...interesting info, however "being found drowned in a swimming pool" (I'm sure it is a conceivable accident) but "being found beat to death with a hammer"....NO ACCIDENT. I also thought about MSM's comment on "snakes biting each other"....I think CWW will "turn over on MS" in the blink of a snake's eye. (But, snakes don't have eyelids...learn something new everyday.) So, better to say "faster than a cobra strike?" (as in let's strike a deal)
CWW IMO, doesn't care about how much money MS gets from the insurance companies any more.
That "ship already sailed"... and is sinking on the horizon. He wants to get back to Missouri. He can serve his time there...he already did it once, and has family in the area. Family, who will continually and faithfully feed his commissary account and visit often. (Nothing odd about that...I know elderly parents who sends the max allowed every month via JPAL, yep "paypal for inmates" is called JPAL.)
Some interesting (at least I thought so:blushing stats:
It costs 20% more to house an inmate in Missouri that Florida. And Missouri is already suffering from overcrowding....just thinking out loud with my laptop.

 

[LaLaw2000]

CWW is not a Federal Inmate and therefore cannot serve his time in any state other than the state the murder was committed in. Federal Inmates can be sent to any state in the USA. CWW can say goodbye to Missouri, IMO.

He owes the state of Florida whatever time he is sentenced to in relation to Dr. Sievers murder. So does JR.

MOO

*OOPS! I think this post should be in the CWW thread. I was responding to IQuestions post!

(hi, IQuestion!.......:seeya

 

[IQuestion]

CWW is not a Federal Inmate and therefore cannot serve his time in any state other than the state the murder was committed in. Federal Inmates can be sent to any state in the USA. CWW can say goodbye to Missouri, IMO.

He owes the state of Florida whatever time he is sentenced to in relation to Dr. Sievers murder. So does JR.

MOO

*OOPS! I think this post should be in the CWW thread. I was responding to IQuestions post!

(hi, IQuestion!.......:seeya

Hey there LALAW2000:loveyou: Sometimes our posts "straddle two subjects"...I was originally responding to SurfieTx's post on the insurance money being paid to a man (accused of murder) in the drowning death of his wife. And, "goof ball me" was trying to point out "possible accident" vs "definite murder" when it came to paying out insurance proceeds. I probably shouldn't have added the part about "seriving prison time in Florida vs Missouri."
(In my advancing years, lol. I get started on a thought and say, "Don't get me off my train of thought.")
So, let's hop over, together to the CWW thread. See ya' over there!

 

[al66pine]

Who signed the LI policy app's?
Or forms for changes in coverage or change of benef?
Did TS sign pol. app's for which she was PPI (Principal Person Ins'ed) & Owner?
Can we find ex's of Dr TS's siggie and MS's siggie, for comparison purposes?
Or are siggie images too low-res. to be worthwhile for our purposes?

I've just started a list below, which can be copied & pasted, and added by others who post. Will hold my further additions, pending suggestions for improvements.

LIST OF DOC's w DR. TS or MS' SIGNATURES (PURPORTED)
Bates#...Doc type...........Date...................On siggie line, looks like
3124...... TS bk ck3126......Nov 11, 05 ........ siggie written out. Whose?
3125...... TS bk ck3140......Dec 12, 05......... siggie written out. Whose?
3175...... pol. app.............Dec 22, 07.......... initials, not siggie written out. Whose?
-----Anyone pls add to

Could some peeps here copy & paste the initials & siggies from Doc Dump 2 to combine into one image, for comparison purposes. I know we have some wizards. Maybe this should be done once we've located and listed all siggies in Doc Dump 2.

Maybe there's a better way to do this? Suggestions?

 

[IQuestion]

AL66PINE Excellent point...I was going to wait until things "quieted down" on the threads because I can't believe all the disturbing (to me they are disturbing) info in the new docs. It appears the agents did their paperwork correctly. However, I did take 2 pages of notes on items that were a little odd. #4060 The signature on the W9 is NOT the same as the others. Not really a big issue since the document before requests ALL information be made available to Mark. And that even her "password" request was to be MARK instead of the last 4 digits of her social security number.
The other ODD entry was on #3814 in which Mark Sievers' occupation is SELF-EMPLOYED NURSE with income of 50K per year, purchasing a $1.5 million 20 yr Term policy from Jackson Nat Life. The date of the app is 02/15/2006. RED FLAG??? (If using "standard multiples of 5x or 10x annual salary, the recommended guideline would be $250K to $500K of coverage. So, I just don't get the HUGE insurance purchases.)
#3141 States Teresa's income (at age 36) was $350,000 per year. RED FLAG??? (I don't think she earned even close to that after expenses....especially not in 2006!)
Even more disturbing is the #3826 is the $1790 premium for a total of $2.5 million (with riders included).
I see too much "unsubstantiated need" for the amounts of coverage purchased. Once a person applies for more than 10 times their annual earnings....underwriters should be concerned, IN MY OPINION. Life insurance is not supposed to make a beneficiary rich, it is intended to ease the financial burden and replace lost income. IN MY OPINION

 

[IQuestion]

...continuing here I realize everyone wants to provide for their families. But, does that mean every insurance company should underwrite a $1.5 million policy for a man or woman who claims to be self-employed and making 50K without W2's, Sched C, or other supporting documents? Just saying, the amount of the policies were not commensurate with earnings or needs guidelines.

 

[watergirl62]

The most interesting/ironic piece of info from Batch 1, IMO.
page 53 bates #3141

From TS's Prudential policy application in 2005:

$40,000? Really?
:thinking:

'

 

[FightTheOstrich]

The most interesting/ironic piece of info from Batch 1, IMO.
page 53 bates #3141

From TS's Prudential policy application in 2005:

$40,000? Really?
:thinking:

'

:thinking:
TS didn't go solo until 2006. What was MS doing in 2005? Idk, maybe he was the nanny??? Will an insurance company assign a dollar amount like $40,000 to a stay at home parent???

 

[creepingskills]

:thinking:
TS didn't go solo until 2006. What was MS doing in 2005? Idk, maybe he was the nanny??? Will an insurance company assign a dollar amount like $40,000 to a stay at home parent???

I'm wondering if the 40k is attributable to rent received, cashing out investments, or capital gains from the sale of real estate? I'm sure the insurance company required verification.

 

[IQuestion]

:thinking:
TS didn't go solo until 2006. What was MS doing in 2005? Idk, maybe he was the nanny??? Will an insurance company assign a dollar amount like $40,000 to a stay at home parent???

Hmmm, FTO...maybe that is why this story made it to the INSURANCE FRAUD NEWS REPORT. And thank you to NIN for finding that published report..."Where there's smoke....." (Please read post #166 & 167 on the life insurance policy thread).
Somebody "dropped the ball" big time during the underwriting process. If the norm is to issue a policy for 5 to 10 times annual earnings....WHO THE HECK UNDERWRITES a life insurance policy for an UNEMPLOYED MAN with no stocks, bonds, investments, mutual funds, for $2.5 million dollars???? IT DOESN'T MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE!! Unless of course, he didn't want his wife to get suspicious when he applied for large amounts of insurance by saying, "I got the same policy for me, too!!!"

 

[watergirl62]

AL66PINE Excellent point...I was going to wait until things "quieted down" on the threads because I can't believe all the disturbing (to me they are disturbing) info in the new docs. It appears the agents did their paperwork correctly. However, I did take 2 pages of notes on items that were a little odd. #4060 The signature on the W9 is NOT the same as the others. Not really a big issue since the document before requests ALL information be made available to Mark. And that even her "password" request was to be MARK instead of the last 4 digits of her social security number.
The other ODD entry was on #3814 in which Mark Sievers' occupation is SELF-EMPLOYED NURSE with income of 50K per year, purchasing a $1.5 million 20 yr Term policy from Jackson Nat Life. The date of the app is 02/15/2006. RED FLAG??? (If using "standard multiples of 5x or 10x annual salary, the recommended guideline would be $250K to $500K of coverage. So, I just don't get the HUGE insurance purchases.)
#3141 States Teresa's income (at age 36) was $350,000 per year. RED FLAG??? (I don't think she earned even close to that after expenses....especially not in 2006!)
Even more disturbing is the #3826 is the $1790 premium for a total of $2.5 million (with riders included).
I see too much "unsubstantiated need" for the amounts of coverage purchased. Once a person applies for more than 10 times their annual earnings....underwriters should be concerned, IN MY OPINION. Life insurance is not supposed to make a beneficiary rich, it is intended to ease the financial burden and replace lost income. IN MY OPINION

I found that Jackson MS policy interesting because Jackson sent several notices (3847, 3851, 3858) that his $465 quarterly premium hadn't been paid. Solution was to get autopay set up from Sievers & Company LLC Theresa Sievers MD checking account (3856). Classy move.

 

[watergirl62]

:thinking:
TS didn't go solo until 2006. What was MS doing in 2005? Idk, maybe he was the nanny??? Will an insurance company assign a dollar amount like $40,000 to a stay at home parent???

I thought maybe it came as his man-dowry within four safes. I haven't followed closely enough so don't know from whence THE $40K came. That's what initially struck me as strange - the number itself.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

AL66PINE Excellent point...I was going to wait until things "quieted down" on the threads because I can't believe all the disturbing (to me they are disturbing) info in the new docs. It appears the agents did their paperwork correctly. However, I did take 2 pages of notes on items that were a little odd. #4060 The signature on the W9 is NOT the same as the others. Not really a big issue since the document before requests ALL information be made available to Mark. And that even her "password" request was to be MARK instead of the last 4 digits of her social security number.
The other ODD entry was on #3814 in which Mark Sievers' occupation is SELF-EMPLOYED NURSE with income of 50K per year, purchasing a $1.5 million 20 yr Term policy from Jackson Nat Life. The date of the app is 02/15/2006. RED FLAG??? (If using "standard multiples of 5x or 10x annual salary, the recommended guideline would be $250K to $500K of coverage. So, I just don't get the HUGE insurance purchases.)
#3141 States Teresa's income (at age 36) was $350,000 per year. RED FLAG??? (I don't think she earned even close to that after expenses....especially not in 2006!)
Even more disturbing is the #3826 is the $1790 premium for a total of $2.5 million (with riders included).
I see too much "unsubstantiated need" for the amounts of coverage purchased. Once a person applies for more than 10 times their annual earnings....underwriters should be concerned, IN MY OPINION. Life insurance is not supposed to make a beneficiary rich, it is intended to ease the financial burden and replace lost income. IN MY OPINION

In 2006 TS opened her solo practice. Was MS acting as both nurse and office manager in the beginning? Is it possible he was drawing a salary of $50,000? It's not unusual for a small business owner to employ and pay a spouse, even if the spouse contributes very little. One reason is the ability to draw social security down the road. That actually doesn't seem as fishy to me as TS's stated income. There's just no way TS was making $350,000/year before 2006 or after.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I thought maybe it came as his man-dowry within four safes. I haven't followed closely enough so don't know from whence THE $40K came. That's what initially struck me as strange - the number itself.

Interesting point regarding the $40,000. That number keeps popping up.

In 2005, TS hadn't gone out on her own yet. I doubt her former practice employed MS in any capacity. It's possible he was working as an LPN during this period. Although, I just can't see MS holding down a job and working for someone else. It's also possible I suppose that TS had "hired" MS as her office manager in anticipation of going solo and he had started setting things up while she continued her work.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Hmmm, FTO...maybe that is why this story made it to the INSURANCE FRAUD NEWS REPORT. And thank you to NIN for finding that published report..."Where there's smoke....." (Please read post #166 & 167 on the life insurance policy thread).
Somebody "dropped the ball" big time during the underwriting process. If the norm is to issue a policy for 5 to 10 times annual earnings....WHO THE HECK UNDERWRITES a life insurance policy for an UNEMPLOYED MAN with no stocks, bonds, investments, mutual funds, for $2.5 million dollars???? IT DOESN'T MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE!! Unless of course, he didn't want his wife to get suspicious when he applied for large amounts of insurance by saying, "I got the same policy for me, too!!!"

After the 2008 housing debacle. Most underwriters of different loan or insurance aspects have been outed and lost their jobs. Jmo.

The same with being able to buy a 50k car with $1000 down and only making 16k a year on a 4 year finance. Jmo

Some companies knew they were getting bought out by bigger firms. So they up the ante and fraudulently got as many financed or insured customers as possible to get a bigger buy out from a bigger company before all of the fraudulent lending and insured underwriting came crashing down. So I'm not too surprised.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Does anyone here know about the verification of income process when applicants submit that information? Am I naive to assume there is a protocol in place to prevent fraud? Or, like home loans, nobody really cares as long as you make the payments. *sarcasm*

Back in the mid and late 1980s, I know that people got away with submitting false tax forms in order to qualify for home loans, I imagine that's changed somewhat, lol.

 

[FelicityLemon]

In 2006 TS opened her solo practice. Was MS acting as both nurse and office manager in the beginning? Is it possible he was drawing a salary of $50,000? It's not unusual for a small business owner to employ and pay a spouse, even if the spouse contributes very little. One reason is the ability to draw social security down the road. That actually doesn't seem as fishy to me as TS's stated income. There's just no way TS was making $350,000/year before 2006 or after.

Agreed. Even IF a brand new medical practice was pulling in that number, after all the overhead, etc. there would actually be very little left to legitimately claim as personal, after-tax income. I haven't gone through all of the docs, been skipping around, but is at least one of those insurance policies for the business rather than her personal self?

 

[IQuestion]

In 2006 TS opened her solo practice. Was MS acting as both nurse and office manager in the beginning? Is it possible he was drawing a salary of $50,000? It's not unusual for a small business owner to employ and pay a spouse, even if the spouse contributes very little. One reason is the ability to draw social security down the road. That actually doesn't seem as fishy to me as TS's stated income. There's just no way TS was making $350,000/year before 2006 or after.

FightTheOstrich, BINGO!!! Hmmm and they surely would have not qualified for their mortgage if they included the liability of the student loans for medical school, too... I am thinking "STATED INCOME" was getting them (and in all fairness, a lot of borrowers) in financial distress. Around 2005/2006...there were lots of people regularly OVERSTATING their income to acquire debt....for lots of things, maybe even disability and life insurance policies??
"In August 2006, Steven Krystofiak, president of the Mortgage Brokers Association for Responsible Lending, in a statement at a Federal Reserve hearing on mortgage regulation, reported that his organization had compared a sample of 100 stated income mortgage applications to IRS records, and found almost 60% of the sampled loans had overstated their income by more than 50 percent."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stated_income_loan
(there are a lot of other sources from the Feds, but just wanted to make it simple)

 

[creepingskills]

...continuing here I realize everyone wants to provide for their families. But, does that mean every insurance company should underwrite a $1.5 million policy for a man or woman who claims to be self-employed and making 50K without W2's, Sched C, or other supporting documents? Just saying, the amount of the policies were not commensurate with earnings or needs guidelines.

I wonder if/how net worth is taken into account in the underwriting process? Bates #3224 "net worth is inclusive of primary residence".