The Life Insurance Policies on Dr. Sievers

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Even if we take into account MS's claim that he was the primary caregiver, it's high.
Info on life insurance for stay-at-home parents...
https://www.daveramsey.com/index.cfm?event=askdave/&intContentItemId=9450
http://www.newyorklife.com/learn-and-plan/stay-at-home-spouse

I've seen many 'formulas' for determining amt of LI to buy for SAHP and a wiiiiiiiiiide range of results.
One constant in SAHP formulas: LI policy should provide death benefit amt so widow(er) can hire person(s) to perform services of parent (nanny, cook, housecleaning, tutor, lawn service, what-ev) for number of yrs the offspring would continue living at home, say, until high school or college grad.
Not to champion one formula or another, but each uses assumptions which may or may not be well founded/reasonable in all situations and which may or may not be explicitly stated.

Was $500,000 death benef on MS' life inappropriately high amt to replace MS's reported $40,000 earned income? Low? Or about right? IDK.
Q - did MS have $40,000 earned inc at time of app (~2005)? IDK, nevertheless...

Dave Ramsey example calculates amt of LI/death benef to purchase, by assuming death proceeds will be invested at a 10% interest rate.
$400,000 death benef x 10% int annual = $40,000/yr to employ substitute for SAHP's services. No publication date, but very stale, decades stale, imo.

10% interest rate was a reasonable premise many yrs ago for investments such as CDs*, money market funds. But currently expecting comparable int. rate is an unreasonable, unrealistic azz-umption.

Also one unstated assumption in Ramsey example: - widow(er) pays ($40,000, in ex.) for these services for a given number of years & needs to have principal intact ($400,000 in ^ ex) at end of period. May or may not be the case.

End rambling. All ^ JM2cts.
____________________________________________________
*chart below from http://www.moneycafe.com/personal-finance/codi-rate-certificates-of-deposit-index/
Chart shows 2004-2013, 10% int rate not remotely avail in that period. Links below show other periods.

codi-graph.png


https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/121
http://www.ratestracker.com/historical-cd-rates/
 
I've seen many 'formulas' for determining amt of LI to buy for SAHP and a wiiiiiiiiiide range of results.
One constant in SAHP formulas: LI policy should provide death benefit amt so widow(er) can hire person(s) to perform services of parent (nanny, cook, housecleaning, tutor, lawn service, what-ev) for number of yrs the offspring would continue living at home, say, until high school or college grad.
Not to champion one formula or another, but each uses assumptions which may or may not be well founded/reasonable in all situations and which may or may not be explicitly stated.

Was $500,000 death benef on MS' life inappropriately high amt to replace MS's reported $40,000 earned income? Low? Or about right? IDK.
Q - did MS have $40,000 earned inc at time of app (~2005)? IDK, nevertheless...

Dave Ramsey example calculates amt of LI/death benef to purchase, by assuming death proceeds will be invested at a 10% interest rate.
$400,000 death benef x 10% int annual = $40,000/yr to employ substitute for SAHP's services. No publication date, but very stale, decades stale, imo.

10% interest rate was a reasonable premise many yrs ago for investments such as CDs*, money market funds. But currently expecting comparable int. rate is an unreasonable, unrealistic azz-umption.

Also one unstated assumption in Ramsey example: - widow(er) pays ($40,000, in ex.) for these services for a given number of years & needs to have principal intact ($400,000 in ^ ex) at end of period. May or may not be the case.

End rambling. All ^ JM2cts.
____________________________________________________
*chart below from http://www.moneycafe.com/personal-finance/codi-rate-certificates-of-deposit-index/
Chart shows 2004-2013, 10% int rate not remotely avail in that period. Links below show other periods.

codi-graph.png


https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/121
http://www.ratestracker.com/historical-cd-rates/

In this specific case, I think the policy was high. We have to consider the fact that the Siever's daughter(s) would only require full-time childcare for a few years. Eventually she/they could go to school. So a full-time nanny wouldn't be required long-term. And we should take into consideration TS's income level. Without MS blowing her money she likely would have had more cash at her disposal.
 
In this specific case, I think the policy was high. We have to consider the fact that the Siever's daughter(s) would only require full-time childcare for a few years. Eventually she/they could go to school. So a full-time nanny wouldn't be required long-term. And we should take into consideration TS's income level. Without MS blowing her money she likely would have had more cash at her disposal.

FTO
Yes, good points there ^. Thanks for response.
 
FTO
Yes, good points there ^. Thanks for response.

Every situation is different but it just seems like MS overvalued himself. It's also possible that MS was influenced by an insurance agent or financial advisor, I guess.
 
MS Life Insurance $2,500,000

I don’t know if MS’s life insurance was/is still current, but his policy was for $2,500,000:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE/view?pref=2&pli=1
BATES 3863

Jackson National Life Insurance Company
CERTIFICATION OF CURRENT COVERAGE
Certification Date: February 12, 2009
Insured: Mark D Sievers
Owner: Mark D Sievers
Issue Date: May 19, 2006
Primary Beneficiary: Teresa Sievers
Face Amount: $2,500,000
Benefits: Terminal Illness Rider
I've seen many 'formulas' for determining amt of LI to buy for SAHP and a wiiiiiiiiiide range of results.
One constant in SAHP formulas: LI policy should provide death benefit amt so widow(er) can hire person(s) to perform services of parent (nanny, cook, housecleaning, tutor, lawn service, what-ev) for number of yrs the offspring would continue living at home, say, until high school or college grad.
Not to champion one formula or another, but each uses assumptions which may or may not be well founded/reasonable in all situations and which may or may not be explicitly stated.

Was $500,000 death benef on MS' life inappropriately high amt to replace MS's reported $40,000 earned income? Low? Or about right? IDK.
Q - did MS have $40,000 earned inc at time of app (~2005)? IDK, nevertheless...

Dave Ramsey example calculates amt of LI/death benef to purchase, by assuming death proceeds will be invested at a 10% interest rate.
$400,000 death benef x 10% int annual = $40,000/yr to employ substitute for SAHP's services. No publication date, but very stale, decades stale, imo.

10% interest rate was a reasonable premise many yrs ago for investments such as CDs*, money market funds. But currently expecting comparable int. rate is an unreasonable, unrealistic azz-umption.

Also one unstated assumption in Ramsey example: - widow(er) pays ($40,000, in ex.) for these services for a given number of years & needs to have principal intact ($400,000 in ^ ex) at end of period. May or may not be the case.

End rambling. All ^ JM2cts.
____________________________________________________
*chart below from http://www.moneycafe.com/personal-finance/codi-rate-certificates-of-deposit-index/
Chart shows 2004-2013, 10% int rate not remotely avail in that period. Links below show other periods.

codi-graph.png


https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/121
http://www.ratestracker.com/historical-cd-rates/
 
What's very odd to me is that on every single one of HIS life insurance policies he has listed his mother as the beneficiary. But Teresa, God rest her sweet soul, named him on them all :frown:

^^BBM

Re: HIS life insurance policies he has listed his mother as the beneficiary

Mark's $2,500,000 Life Insurance has Teresa listed as beneficiary.

I don’t find a current certification date for Mark’s life insurance, but as of 2/12/2009, Teresa was the listed beneficiary:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B717FUtKwdU8ZW9YTzBNYnVLdVE/view?pref=2&pli=1
BATES 3863

Jackson National Life Insurance Company
CERTIFICATION OF CURRENT COVERAGE
Certification Date: February 12, 2009
Insured: Mark D Sievers
Owner: Mark D Sievers
Issue Date: May 19, 2006
Primary Beneficiary: Teresa Sievers
Face Amount: $2,500,000
Benefits: Terminal Illness Rider
 
I had friends that homeschooled and they were (are?) hard core. I could see them taking out big LI so that the other parent could stay home full time (quit their job) and continue to homeschool. They feel very strongly about homeschooling and think VERY poorly of public school but all schools in general. This is NOT how I feel. That's why I *had* friends that homeschooled, lol.
 
I had friends that homeschooled and they were (are?) hard core. I could see them taking out big LI so that the other parent could stay home full time (quit their job) and continue to homeschool. They feel very strongly about homeschooling and think VERY poorly of public school but all schools in general. This is NOT how I feel. That's why I *had* friends that homeschooled, lol.

That's a good point and I think a lot of homeschoolers are anti public and private schools. But IMO, the Siever's were homeschooling for 2 reasons. MS liked being a stay-at-home dad and they couldn't afford private. I guess that's actually one reason. If MS had worked full-time they would have been able to afford private. Heck, MS could have worked a couple shifts on the weekend at the hospital as an LPN and contributed a decent salary.

I really think MS liked hanging out by the pool with girls and playing frisbee on the roof. If the girls had gone to school TS might have demanded he clean out his van and get a real job.
 
That's a good point and I think a lot of homeschoolers are anti public and private schools. But IMO, the Siever's were homeschooling for 2 reasons. MS liked being a stay-at-home dad and they couldn't afford private. I guess that's actually one reason. If MS had worked full-time they would have been able to afford private. Heck, MS could have worked a couple shifts on the weekend at the hospital as an LPN and contributed a decent salary.

I really think MS liked hanging out by the pool with girls and playing frisbee on the roof. If the girls had gone to school TS might have demanded he clean out his van and get a real job.

Yes! TS must have felt like she had 3 children, two cute ones and one not so much....
 
"I am sure many companies found this by news and do not want to pay to working with LE."
Not following meaning of ^bbm.
The ins co's (or who?) do not want to....what?...work w LE?

I'm sorry I mean insurance not wanting to pay out of MS is part of a murder plan. Insurance co work with LE.
 
In this specific case, I think the policy was high. We have to consider the fact that the Siever's daughter(s) would only require full-time childcare for a few years. Eventually she/they could go to school. So a full-time nanny wouldn't be required long-term. And we should take into consideration TS's income level. Without MS blowing her money she likely would have had more cash at her disposal.

What did MS blow HER money on?
Or is it their money ?
They were married.
 
If I'm a stay at home mom am I allowed to spend my husbands income? Or is it His?
 
Not every marriage has our money. In any event, Teresa's name, and only her name, was on the life insurance checks per Bates copies. Not to say that they didn't share an account, but I personally haven't seen it.
 
Who is the name on the property deed? That's public, I do think.
 
Not every marriage has our money. In any event, Teresa's name, and only her name, was on the life insurance checks per Bates copies. Not to say that they didn't share an account, but I personally haven't seen it.
So?
That does.not mean it's just her money.

I'm just curious as to what he blew her money on.
 
So?
That does.not mean it's just her money.

I'm just curious as to what he blew her money on.

No telling. One thing I can think of is a trip to Missouri without her and the rent on an unoccupied condo in said state.
 
What did MS blow HER money on?
Or is it their money ?
They were married.
I totally get where you are coming from Eileen.

I think the moment he used 'their' money to have her killed it kind of changed the normal feelings of 'ours' or 'theirs' in terms of the relationship and especially their finances.

I hope you can cut us some slack and have an understanding. I think the moment he used their money to finance her murder- all bets were off for many of us here.

He controlled the household finances and the finances of the practice- it is becoming clear that he maybe wasn't doing what he should have or keeping up his end of the marriage bargain.

We know from cases in the news and here on WS people do this kind of shady stuff to the other spouse all the time.

I think when you are lying, cheating (I don't mean affairs) and misrepresenting things it sort of changes the facts of whose money is whose by default.

I'm a stay at home mom. I don't lie to my husband about finances or misrepresent things, I don't cheat or steal finances and I have never used my husbands hard earned money to pay to have him murdered.

Please forgive our one sidedness in the matter of the Sievers money. I think it is well deserved.
 

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