The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

[Madeleine74]

Ghostwheel,

I'm not claiming this (or any) payphone is one Heather went to. I am following up on Cujenn81's post above by asking why she doubts the information about the payphone SM using was the one referenced in MSM articles to the point where she was conducting her own search of payphones along that road to find a working one, now 4 months after HE's disappearance. In fact it was Cujenn81 who even earlier in this thread made the comment that MSM published the factoid that SM used the Kangaroo payphone on 10th. Her investigation was following something from that.

Somehow this has taken a complete turn where I am being asked for links. It obvious the conversation is not being followed or maybe not understood. I didn't make any pronouncements....I'm merely using information that already exists in this thread. Start on page #1 and you will see the conversation flow. My question is to Cujenn81.

 

[cluciano63]

Weird that this article says they were both home. The pictures with the time line from the bond hearing states that at 3:17 "Heather is at her home at this point. Sidney is at his home which is approximately 3 miles from the boat landing." That is not "both of them" (TM and SM) being home, just Sidney (or at least Sidney's phone).

Did someone who was at the hearing post that Elder said both were home, or could this be a mis-quote by media?

If media said both TM and SM were both at home, it must be an error or a wrong assumption, IMO...how could they know that? I feel like it should read both phones were in their respective homes...jmo.

 

[4evernbluejeans]

Except for the fact that the Moorer truck drove to PTL with focus and purpose, then drove back to their house with focus and purpose, which says that somebody had to know that Heather was at PTL. Maybe the 3:17am 4+ minute call wasn't actually a person to person conversation. Maybe it was a long voicemail that Heather left for Sidney bc she was worried about him and in which she said she'd meet him at PTL. If so, maybe Tammy retrieved that vm instead of Sidney. OR somebody told Heather to meet them at PTL at a certain time, she got there & they weren't there, so she called his cell... Maybe it truly was an honest to goodness evil setup.

IMO this is it, nutshell...I think he called to lure her, no other way can I get from "leaving my wife" to "full participant in murder, kidnap" within a couple of hours. It was some kind of plan, maybe just a beat down..but a plan to get HE to PTL.

 

[LBDunes]

Do you have a link for that? Please? I just need to see a link so I can put it on the map.

The article posted said a payphone on 10th ave north. It did not say it was the one on 10th and Seaboard. I have seen the address of 1929 10th ave. north cited as the payphone location and for the location of the receipt in Heather's car. Also, if I am not mistaken there is a gas station/convenience store on 10th ave. north and 17 bypass which is roughly a mile from the Seaboard location. Does anyone know if that is a Kangaroo? I think it has a payphone. The one at Seaboard is definitely a Kangaroo.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Ghostwheel,

I'm not claiming this (or any) payphone is one Heather went to. I am following up on Cujenn81's post above by asking why she doubts the information about the payphone SM using was the one referenced in MSM articles to the point where she was conducting her own search of payphones along that road to find a working one, now 4 months after HE's disappearance. In fact it was Cujenn81 who even earlier in this thread made the comment that MSM published the factoid that SM used the Kangaroo payphone on 10th. Her investigation was following something from that.

Somehow this has taken a complete turn where I am being asked for links. It obvious the conversation is not being followed. I didn't make any pronouncements....I'm merely using information that already exists in this thread. Start on page #1 and you will see the conversation flow. My question is to Cujenn81.

Cujenn81 did not doubt MSM. She was trying to determine which phone on 10th avenue was the one that SM might have used. She went out to find out if the cell phone at Kanagaroo Express (the one where Heather got gas earlier on her date day) would ring if it was called. She then found out it didn't work when she got there. I'm reading just fine.

 

[Madeleine74]

Cujenn81 did not doubt MSM. She was trying to determine which phone on 10th avenue was the one that SM might have used. She went out to find out if the cell phone at Kanagaroo Express (the one where Heather got gas earlier on her date day) would ring if it was called. She then found out it didn't work when she got there. I'm reading just fine.

I asked cujenn81 if she doubted LE's info. I didn't suggest she doubted the MSM article. My question is to cujenn81. I'm sure she'll answer when she is available to do so. You asked for links to MSM articles and there are 2 separate links to be found in this thread.

 

[4evernbluejeans]

FYI approx. 10 years ago, 10th ave N in Myrtle Beach, was renamed after a black community leader "Mr. Joe White". This area also used to house the last historically black one room/segregated school. This was a controversial name change, with business owners claiming that tourists would be confused. So they use both names..10th ave N and Mr. Joe White ave.

 

[Clear Water]

I think the pay phone call was the beginning of the set up and exactly which one used is known by LE regardless of current working status.

Does TM or SM, or any of their close family or friends have a boat? When you live near the water you get used to hearing boats at all hours of the day and night. It does not stand out, at least where I live. Perhaps the sound of a boat motor would have stood out at PTL since it would have been cold. Due to the quick turn around time at PTL, I have often wondered if HE was taken away by boat to later meet her ultimate fate as determined by the M's.

 

[Ghostwheel]

If media said both TM and SM were both at home, it must be an error or a wrong assumption, IMO...how could they know that? I feel like it should read both phones were in their respective homes...jmo.

The only thing I can think of is that there is some surveillance footage that clearly shows both of them leaving from the house in that time frame or they admitted to being at home at that time. Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I asked cujenn81 if she doubted LE's info. I didn't suggest she doubted the MSM article. My question is to cujenn81. I'm sure she'll answer when she is available to do so. You asked for links to MSM articles and there are 2 separate links to be found in this thread.

There are no working links with any MSM quote that says the phone SM phoned from was the one at 1929 10th ave. north.

This post where it is stated definitively that The pay phone call from SM was confirmed to be the pay phone at the Kangaroo Express on 10th Avenue North in Myrtle Beach has a broken link.

I'm confused why the search for a different payphone? The pay phone call from SM was confirmed to be the pay phone at the Kangaroo Express on 10th Avenue North in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't work now but that doesn't mean it wasn't operational 4 months ago. Is LE not believed on this detail?

 

[4evernbluejeans]

Clearwater, I agree it seems that she must have been spirited away, and quickly...I think the dogs indicated no scent past the parking lot? That is not real proof, but one thing that bothers me. Would TM have allowed LE to "look around" the family compound the next day, if she wasn't certain they would not find anything? So maybe the truck or maybe a boat, but it seems they brought her elsewhere.

 

[cujenn81]

I'm confused why the search for a different payphone? The pay phone call from SM was confirmed to be the pay phone at the Kangaroo Express on 10th Avenue North in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't work now but that doesn't mean it wasn't operational 4 months ago. Is LE not believed on this detail?

I wasn't able to view that page. It said page not found. I know it's been confirmed to be somewhere on 10th ave north but I've personally never seen it stated that it was the kangaroo store specifically. I've seen it stated (on the police report) that a receipt found in heather's car & dated dec. 17th w/ a time stamp of 1618 was from the kangaroo express, but if it's been confirmed that the pay phone call came from that same store, I missed it.


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[Madeleine74]

I wasn't able to view that page. It said page not found. I know it's been confirmed to be somewhere on 10th ave north but I've personally never seen it stated that it was the kangaroo store specifically. I've seen it stated (on the police report) that a receipt found in heather's car & dated dec. 17th w/ a time stamp of 1618 was from the kangaroo express, but if it's been confirmed that the pay phone call came from that same store, I missed it.


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You're the one who posted the statement in the first place:

"Ever since the pay phone call from SM was confirmed by MSM to be the pay phone at the [modsnip] on 10th Avenue North in Myrtle Beach"

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

 

[bamcaan]

So, do you think HE forgot about TM having SM's phone like she said she did? I just wonder why she called or text his phone?

Are we sure that Heather knew that TM had taken his phone? I imagine their trysts times were in the early morning hours after he finished up his work, and perhaps she was used to getting/returning calls from/to him at whatever establishment he was working that night. I don't think Heather knew that was a payphone number, and when he didn't answer, then just called his cell, perhaps to confirm their meet time (for whatever reason).

Regardless of whether SM signed an agreement with TM for probation, would he willingly admit that debasement to Heather? And admit that he had no phone, was being cuffed, etc? I imagine he would have tried to make things seem as normal as possible within the realms of the circumstances of TM knowing about the affair. And calling from a number other than his cell was probably normal.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Are we sure that Heather knew that TM had taken his phone? I imagine their trysts times were in the early morning hours after he finished up his work, and perhaps she was used to getting/returning calls from/to him at whatever establishment he was working that night. I don't think Heather knew that was a payphone number, and when he didn't answer, then just called his cell, perhaps to confirm their meet time (for whatever reason).

Regardless of whether SM signed an agreement with TM for probation, would he willingly admit that debasement to Heather? And admit that he had no phone, was being cuffed, etc? I imagine he would have tried to make things seem as normal as possible within the realms of the circumstances of TM knowing about the affair. And calling from a number other than his cell was probably normal.

BBM: It is possible she didn't know. TM texted Heather "Dad no longer has a phone." but to Heather, that might have been "Why should I care if your father doesn't have a phone?" not realizing that some women refer to their husbands as "Dad" when they have kids. Heather quite possibly thought the phone SM called from was some workplace he was working at.

 

[Catlady2]

The only thing I can think of is that there is some surveillance footage that clearly shows both of them leaving from the house in that time frame or they admitted to being at home at that time. Otherwise, I agree with you.

And on the surveillance comment this was posted 5hrs ago.

Myrtle Beach has such cameras, primarily on Ocean Boulevard, and police Capt. David Knipes said they have been useful in investigations over the years.Surfside Beach and Pawleys Island are the most recent agencies in the area to add the technology, having installed cameras last fall.In Pawleys Island,cameras are in place to look at licenses plates of every vehicle that enters the island, said Police Chief Mike Fanning.He said the photographs of tags are run through State Law Enforcement Division records and the S.C. Department of Motor Vehicles and sends the department alerts for wanted cars, stolen cars, amber alerts, sex offenders and suspended vehicles.Cangelosi said with video and technology such as facial recognition software that has been developed in the last few decades, it’s become easier to use surveillance cameras as a tool to solve crimes.Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/22/3342342/surveillance-cameras-a-useful.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Ghostwheel]

And on the surveillance comment this was posted 5hrs ago.

Myrtle Beach has such cameras, primarily on Ocean Boulevard, and police Capt. David Knipes said they have been useful in investigations over the years.Surfside Beach and Pawleys Island are the most recent agencies in the area to add the technology, having installed cameras last fall.In Pawleys Island,cameras are in place to look at licenses plates of every vehicle that enters the island, said Police Chief Mike Fanning.He said the photographs of tags are run through State Law Enforcement Division records and the S.C. Department of Motor Vehicles and sends the department alerts for wanted cars, stolen cars, amber alerts, sex offenders and suspended vehicles.Cangelosi said with video and technology such as facial recognition software that has been developed in the last few decades, it’s become easier to use surveillance cameras as a tool to solve crimes.Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/22/3342342/surveillance-cameras-a-useful.html#storylink=cpy

I saw that. I'm feeling very 1984 these days....

 

[cujenn81]

You're the one who posted the statement in the first place:

"Ever since the pay phone call from SM was confirmed by MSM to be the pay phone at the Kangaroo Express on 10th Avenue North in Myrtle Beach"

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

Ok I see where the confusion is coming from now... and I apologize for my mistake. I did not word that post very well at all. Instead, I should have stated.... "ever since the pay phone call from SM was confirmed by MSM to be from a pay phone on 10th Ave N in Myrtle Beach.."

I must have included the 'Kangaroo Express' part based on an assumption of my own because I wasn't aware there were other pay phones on 10th Avenue North at the time. I thought I was onto something yesterday when I read the confirmation of the phone being on 10th Avenue North... and I knew the receipt found in Heather's car was from the Kangaroo Express... and I already knew that store had a pay phone.

This just proves that assumptions make an *advertiser censored* out of me. I truly do apologize for the confusion... as the last thing I want to do is perpetuate or start rumors.


I also wanted to add--the whole reason for the phone search today was because some of us where throwing out possible scenarios last night about why Heather tried to call him back on the pay phone. Some of us wondered if maybe SM had asked her to call him back at a specific time & were curious to know if the phone would actually ring when she did... like could he have asked her to call him back because TM had his cell phone, and he really was waiting by the phone for her to call... but it never rang so he didn't know she had called. I went to the Kangaroo last night based off the assumption I mentioned above and the phone didn't work... which is what led me to stop at the Circle K when I saw a phone there.

 

[Catlady2]

Thank you cujenn81 you are awesome!

 

[bamcaan]

BBM: It is possible she didn't know. TM texted Heather "Dad no longer has a phone." but to Heather, that might have been "Why should I care if your father doesn't have a phone?" not realizing that some women refer to their husbands as "Dad" when they have kids. Heather quite possibly thought the phone SM called from was some workplace he was working at.

Yes, my DH and I still call each other Mom and Dad, and our kids have been out of the house for some years.

Point being, from the perspective of someone in the exact same position at that age as Heather, I would probably have agreed to meet him if he called, even after things had been 'called off' and I was moving on.

As much as Heather may have been afraid of TM, I surely don't think she was afraid of SM. And calling to see where he was when she got to the landing and he wasn't there yet would have been perfectly normal, especially if she didn't know he didn't have control of his phone. (Maybe she thought the sexting pixtures was TM being her usual *advertiser censored* self) and just blew it off.

And yes, I think the call that was answered was the catalyst that sent things into motion. Whether it was a set-up, TM forced SM into a situation, or if it was TM or SM alone or together.