The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

[Intermezzo]

How far is Amscot from the house, could she have walked?

About 7-8 miles away I believe.

 

[songline]

Do any of her friends live near there? Zanieda perhaps?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Rumpole]

IMO she dumped the car because she did not try to get it from the tow yard. Perhaps she was truly trying to retrieve it from Amscot. But, once that car was off the Amscot lot she did not try to get it. And I am so sorry, common sense tells you a person who is trying to prevent their car from being towed will talk to the business owners of the lot where the car is stalled. So, iif t took her two or three days to get gas to the car, she could let the owner know the status of her plight and try to get the car going asap.

That's what a normal sane rational person would do. It's happened to me people. Something happened to my car and I had to leave it in a parking lot. I told the owners and they said ok. They gave me a time limit as to when the car had to be towed. I got their card and kept them abreast of the situation. As soon as I could I got the car towed to a garage. I thanked the owner for allowing me to leave my car there. I think the car was only there a day or two but, I kept in touch with that business owner until my car was out of that lot.

There are too many lies surrounding this car coming from Casey, the car ran out of gas, the gas gauge is broken, the car had mechanical problems, I hit a squirrel with the car and its stinking up the car. I left pizza in the car. My father will pick up the car... on and on the with the lies about the car.

Where there is smoke there is fire. IMO the things that could get Casey in trouble are the things she lies about the most.

IMO

KC was flat broke.

No Money to pay towing fee.

 

[brownflower]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Intermezzo]

Hey Mamabear & Debbie0604:

Do you know the date that she stopped by JG's for the shower? I can't find the link right now but I seem to remember that was an entirely different day. I could be totally off base here since my memory plays tricks on me sometimes. I think that "shower day" occurred after Tony was gone and she was floating from place to place. Didn't she tell Jesse that she couldn't get in Tony's apt?? I stand corrected if I am wrong. Thanks! :blowkiss:

Popping in to answer I think it was July 1st but I will go and double check.
Yes, I believe TL was in NY at this time.
B right back.......

Yup, here is the link to July 1 case calendar
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-1&c=4

 

[brownflower]

KC was flat broke.

No Money to pay towing fee.

All the more reason to let the owners of Amscot know that her car ran out of gas and please don't tow my car until I can get someone to get me some gas.

And again, on July 7 she had plenty of money. She cashed an Amy check at Target and she also withdrew money from the bank $250.

Plenty of money to get the car if she wanted it.

She didn't want the car.

Strange, she has money for a cell phone but, she doesn't have money for gas. She had free time on her hands with no baby to look after. She could have gone out and gotten a job so that she could pay to get the car back.

 

[Bittiness39]

I just don't think she planned on leaving her car behind. But going with her egocentric narcissistic thinking...she would rather raid Target with AH's stolen money than use $20 or so for the gas for the car. She is like your typical grifter...only with a sociopathic twist and horrific sense of entitlement. If she had abandoned the car at the airport and then split town I would buy the abandonment...but yet she stays close to home...I don't think most posters dispute at this point that her parents and Lee were ACTIVELY trying to find her and Caylee...and the car she used to go back and forth from her home...likely to change...take a shower...get items...hide out when she couldn't find pals to crash with during the day but when her parents were gone...she leaves the car close to home on what was a very likely route for Cindy to her work in Winter Park. My guess is she had bummed from way too many people and AH was the one that she could get to buy a gas can for her. She couldn't very well get it from Tony. According to what I have read, she told Tony her dad would pick up the car. Couldn't get it from any of Tony's friends. Anyone else would likely ask too many questions. Who better to ask than AH whom she promised to share her parent's home with once it became hers? If she had fled town after the car was left at the Amscot...I would have bet my money on the fact that it was intentionally abandoned. So if I believe that the car was not abandoned as HP pointed out the evidence shows...then she is either totally stupid and winging it, intending to gas can her way through life for however long or she was getting up the "courage" to kill her parents...I feel like of the two the later is the most likely. Just my pitiful attempt at deductive reasoning. Probably why I took the LSAT twice. I over think stuff. But hey, graduated from law school in 2000 though.

 

[songline]

As Hercule Poirot wisely points out, KC wouldn't have gone with AH with the gas can she talked AH into buying for the Pontiac if she indeed abandoned it. Maybe on that particular day that she ran out of gas she was headed back to Tony's or another pal's place from her parents home and the car had nothing left to give. I often wondered why she would leave the car in a place on her mother's likely route to work in Winter Park. Cindy very likely could have seen the car well before that time. ITA with other posters who say while she may have some smarts she certainly isn't that smart. And while still others have made mention of her wild crowd of friends apparently, other than KC, they were all occupied during the day with jobs and school. Certainly, they didn't have all day to cart her around. Hence, why she needed the car. More than ever it appears as though she was winging it. She stayed close to home the whole time Caylee disappeared from this world. Was she either getting up the "courage" to kill the rest of her family OR was she simply in denial about the fact that the GP's were just going to give up on trying to see or to talk to Caylee? I think it is the first one. Sure, she needed the vehicle to get around...but if I had committed what most of us believe she had...or even if less likely what happened was an accident, I would want to get out of Orlando as fast as I could. Change my name, change my hair, move out of the state. Ditch my cell phone. Open up a pre-paid card service...not flitting around town where she was nearly caught partying by her brother who was hot on her tail. Granted, she is not all that bright...but surely she had something larger in mind than just gas canning her way around Orlando for the next decade. The car being towed probably really scared the daylights out of her. Which, if you had not done anything wrong and/or were not planning anything nefarious for your parents, why not at least approach Lee with the bogus kidnapping story and beg for help...again...not very well thought out unless the car once towed destroyed the second part of her plan, offing her parents and gaining the house. The nanny took Caylee + offed my parents = dangerous people. I get the house. I get the insurance money. I can continue living this way forever.

I really find it hard to believe that she is so smart.
A lier, YES, Disturbed YES. Corrupt YES,
SMART - :nono::nono::nono::nono:
It takes someone heartless and cold to murder but methodical in their plan.
OR it would be solved by now. she is only 23 and it is no SLAM DUNK.
It is stumping LE and making the city money.
and Opening investigations on other people, rightfully so.

THERE IS MORE HERE THEN MEETS THE EYE

 

[brownflower]

I really find it hard to believe that she is so smart.
A lier, YES, Disturbed YES. Corrupt YES,
SMART - :nono::nono::nono::nono:
It takes someone heartless and cold to murder but methodical in their plan.
OR it would be solved by now. she is only 23 and it is no SLAM DUNK.
It is stumping LE and making the city money.
and Opening investigations on other people, rightfully so.

THERE IS MORE HERE THEN MEETS THE EYE

Casey is not that dumb. She didn't let the LE trick her into confessing to a crime that she did not commit.

 

[travelgal]

Popping in to answer I think it was July 1st but I will go and double check.
Yes, I believe TL was in NY at this time.
B right back.......

Yup, here is the link to July 1 case calendar
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-7-1&c=4

Thank you so much, Intermezzo. :blowkiss:

I don't believe the shower at JG's and Tony's picking KC up at Amscot with the groceries are related.

 

[brownflower]

:seeya:Good night good people. Thank you for a very stimulating discussion. I learned a lot.:blowkiss:

 

[kageykaren]

I just don't think she planned on leaving her car behind. But going with her egocentric narcissistic thinking...she would rather raid Target with AH's stolen money than use $20 or so for the gas for the car. She is like your typical grifter...only with a sociopathic twist and horrific sense of entitlement. If she had abandoned the car at the airport and then split town I would buy the abandonment...but yet she stays close to home...I don't think most posters dispute at this point that her parents and Lee were ACTIVELY trying to find her and Caylee...and the car she used to go back and forth from her home...likely to change...take a shower...get items...hide out when she couldn't find pals to crash with during the day but when her parents were gone...she leaves the car close to home on what was a very likely route for Cindy to her work in Winter Park. My guess is she had bummed from way too many people and AH was the one that she could get to buy a gas can for her. She couldn't very well get it from Tony. According to what I have read, she told Tony her dad would pick up the car. Couldn't get it from any of Tony's friends. Anyone else would likely ask too many questions. Who better to ask than AH whom she promised to share her parent's home with once it became hers? If she had fled town after the car was left at the Amscot...I would have bet my money on the fact that it was intentionally abandoned. So if I believe that the car was not abandoned as HP pointed out the evidence shows...then she is either totally stupid and winging it, intending to gas can her way through life for however long or she was getting up the "courage" to kill her parents...I feel like of the two the later is the most likely. Just my pitiful attempt at deductive reasoning. Probably why I took the LSAT twice. I over think stuff. But hey, graduated from law school in 2000 though.

Good to see you back Ittybitty, Sometimes when I'm sluething all these wacky facts to date and thinking about some sinister behavior with all the characters involved in this case I feel as if I might be over thinking some of the possible darker sides of this case, I think I'm putting way too much into this and it is as simple as you suggested. I always keep the fact in mind that most mothers who kill put the child close to home. Alot of things say simple simple simple for KC. She shares her mothers pathological determined mind set.

 

[eddeva]

I really find it hard to believe that she is so smart.
A lier, YES, Disturbed YES. Corrupt YES,
SMART - :nono::nono::nono::nono:
It takes someone heartless and cold to murder but methodical in their plan.
OR it would be solved by now. she is only 23 and it is no SLAM DUNK.
It is stumping LE and making the city money.
and Opening investigations on other people, rightfully so.

THERE IS MORE HERE THEN MEETS THE EYE

i don't know what has provoked the seemingly popular idea that great thought and planning along w/ outside help was necessary in order to carry out the murder and disposal of caylee anthony.
casey killed a 2yr old child who couldn't possibly defend themselves (easy) then dumped the body round the corner (easy) neither of these acts required intelligence or help.
i'll admit that LE are stumped regarding the cause of death. the first time kronk contacted them they sent an idiot out and then the body was submerged for months leaving them only skeletal remains to work w/. that's not the result of a methodical plan; that's the result of shoddy work and really bad weather.

 

[jjgram]

i don't think the ice-pops would still have been frozen.

does anyone have a scale map of the area regularly traversed by casey or a good idea of the distances involved? it strikes me that there's likely one already been posted somewhere.

:waitasec:

RE: ice pops... some are NOT frozen...just LIQUID until you take
them

home and then FREEZE them....

just say'n !:blowkiss:

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

 

[Moe]

About 7-8 miles away I believe.

Thanks!

 

[Rumpole]

:waitasec:

RE: ice pops... some are NOT frozen...just LIQUID until you take
them

home and then FREEZE them....

just say'n !:blowkiss:

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

Good point.:aktion033::angel:

Is there a description of what groceries etc KC had?


:cat:

 

[JWG]

In an attempt to dispel a little bit of cross-day confusion in some recent posts - which is easy to do because I do it all the time in my day job, and not just on the boards :banghead: - I will summarize what we have determined over the past few months based on the pings and texts.

The pings on June 27 support her making a quick trip down to mom 'n pops to pick up that night's pre-Fusian dinner and desert, then heading back up to Tony's. Along the way she runs out of gas and ditches the car at the Amscot. Pings do not support her driving around in circles trying to run out of gas. She literally was on a bee-line to Tony's and her text to Amy and calls for a ride all fall in line with a straight drive up to the boyfriend's.

Bond posted a nice analysis of how far KC would be able to drive after filling up on stolen gas from the shed on the 24th, after she had run out that day. Using pings from the 24th - 27th to determine driving patterns and then using mapping software to collect miles driven, Bond was able to show that running out of gas and ditching the car at the Amscot was not a planned event. She really did just run out.

Now she may have planned to avoid using her car to take Tony to the airport and may have already come up with a reason, but running out of gas provided her with a whole nother plausible angle to use. :idea: All she had to do was leave the car at the Amscot until the 30th. :whistle:

Pings support KC and Amy heading out on the 30th to buy a gas can with Amy's money. LE has that gas can. Pings support them driving to the location of the Amscot, and then circling back to Amy's after discovering the car was not there. KC had every intention of getting that car back. However, once it had disappeared there is no evidence she ever tried to locate its whereabouts. :bang:

As for the shower at JG's, that happened on July 1 after spending much of the night at Fusian followed by some quiet time at Andy F.'s.

 

[Rumpole]

In an attempt to dispel a little bit of cross-day confusion in some recent posts - which is easy to do because I do it all the time in my day job, and not just on the boards :banghead: - I will summarize what we have determined over the past few months based on the pings and texts.

The pings on June 27 support her making a quick trip down to mom 'n pops to pick up that night's pre-Fusian dinner and desert, then heading back up to Tony's. Along the way she runs out of gas and ditches the car at the Amscot. Pings do not support her driving around in circles trying to run out of gas. She literally was on a bee-line to Tony's and her text to Amy and calls for a ride all fall in line with a straight drive up to the boyfriend's.

Bond posted a nice analysis of how far KC would be able to drive after filling up on stolen gas from the shed on the 24th, after she had run out that day. Using pings from the 24th - 27th to determine driving patterns and then using mapping software to collect miles driven, Bond was able to show that running out of gas and ditching the car at the Amscot was not a planned event. She really did just run out.

Now she may have planned to avoid using her car to take Tony to the airport and may have already come up with a reason, but running out of gas provided her with a whole nother plausible angle to use. :idea: All she had to do was leave the car at the Amscot until the 30th. :whistle:

Pings support KC and Amy heading out on the 30th to buy a gas can with Amy's money. LE has that gas can. Pings support them driving to the location of the Amscot, and then circling back to Amy's after discovering the car was not there. KC had every intention of getting that car back. However, once it had disappeared there is no evidence she ever tried to locate its whereabouts. :bang:

As for the shower at JG's, that happened on July 1 after spending much of the night at Fusian followed by some quiet time at Andy F.'s.

Thanks.
I have been marking time here. Nice to get some facts.

Can you also reconcile the report that Amscot manager saw the car earlier? When he arrived for work?

Mentioned most recently in post above: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3706644&postcount=311

 

[mysteriew]

You are correct, as usual HP! I think KC was totally shocked to find the car gone from Amscot's lot. While the idea of her leaving the car for someone to steal is interesting....I just do not think KC could plan that action all the way through. I do agree with Leonard P., et al, that she doesn't plan anything beyond 10 minutes. She is just not that smart.

Also, I want to say it is nice to see you back in the threads, HP. Have you been on holiday? :wave:

The only thing that makes me think that KC intended to ditch the car (at least initially) is because the car stunk! She didn't grab cleaning supplies from Mom's and spend much time cleaning it. She didn't go to a car wash and spray it out from front to back. She didn't pour kitty litter or baking soda to the stain in an attempt to absorb the odor. She added trash to the car and carried gas maybe to help explain the odor. She just didn't do a whole lot to it, but she dumped it. So it could have been just plain laziness, or it could have been part of the plan.

I do think she planned on dumping it. Maybe she later found it inconvenient and wanted to go back to pick it up. Or maybe she just intended to report it stolen that day. After all if she planned to report it stolen, that would need to be set up. Like planning that she ran out of gas, two guys helped her push it into Amscot, when she got back to Amscot with the gas (after finding cans, and a ride back) the car was gone, missing, stolen.

 

[nyvictoria]

i don't know what has provoked the seemingly popular idea that great thought and planning along w/ outside help was necessary in order to carry out the murder and disposal of caylee anthony.
casey killed a 2yr old child who couldn't possibly defend themselves (easy) then dumped the body round the corner (easy) neither of these acts required intelligence or help.
i'll admit that LE are stumped regarding the cause of death. the first time kronk contacted them they sent an idiot out and then the body was submerged for months leaving them only skeletal remains to work w/. that's not the result of a methodical plan; that's the result of shoddy work and really bad weather.

ITA with you eddeva! I think Cindy and George (and probably Lee) are guilty of obstruction, tampering with evidence and spoon-feeding Casey pieces of her "script" but I don't believe they disposed of or moved Caylee's body or were, in any direct way, involved in her murder. Nor was anyone else.

Casey got "lucky", if you want to call the senseless murder of a defenseless child luck :furious: