The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

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The description of the pic says only that it was from Cindy's deposition.
I think the item in upper left corner might be a clutch type purse with the metal "snap-clip" thingy on top. I tried cropping it from my copy I posted earlier (thx for bumping the pic Hot Dogs).

picture.php



I also zoomed in on the dryer sheet

picture.php

FWIW...I did a little more digging and located another pic of the backseat showing the carseat in (passenger rear side) and the heels and boots on the seat positioned more behind the driver. That suggests that this maybe a mirror-image showing the shoes & boots in what appears to be the passenger rear side. Just FYI.

Spent some time last evening focused on the object(s) stuffed off the edge of the seat. Nothing rock-solid I'm afraid. Lotsa possibilities I couldn't rule out.
 
FWIW...I did a little more digging and located another pic of the backseat showing the carseat in (passenger rear side) and the heels and boots on the seat positioned more behind the driver. That suggests that this maybe a mirror-image showing the shoes & boots in what appears to be the passenger rear side. Just FYI.

Spent some time last evening focused on the object(s) stuffed off the edge of the seat. Nothing rock-solid I'm afraid. Lotsa possibilities I couldn't rule out.

What are your guesses?
 
Shiny object just next to black boot with rim looks similiar to the top of a paint can. I agree about the sole and heel of the second boot just to the back & right of the upright boot.

Looks like a black clutch with snap top between seat and door.

Anyone else see what might be a light colored ballcap just between the gray shoe and seat belt clip? It looks like a cap scrunched and folded into itself.
 
BBM

As I provided you supporting documentation for, the detectives did not ask KC about the smell of decomposition in the car because they did not know about it until *after* they had questioned her.
we should probably look at this a little closer. BeanE and i have talked about this offboard.

I think that responding officers and YM did know about this smell from the get go. I will get some links to support in a bit.
Another poster told me where to find the information, I just have to put my hands on it.
I am also of the opinion that they left a possible crime scene unattended and not sealed. The main reason this concerns me is because I wonder if it will keep any evidence out of the trial.
Cindy took the knife and pants out of the car before she called LE. But, since they did not take the car after she and george told them about the smell , there was no indication from LE to CA that the car was offlimits. So she could have done everything after she reported it, because LE seemingly didn't think it was all that critical. Also LE state specifically that CA and GA were extremely cooperative those first few days. They even gave them the car voluntarily so no warrant was required.
YM says in the bond hearing that it occurred him after they checked out KC's stories that someone had mentioned something earlier about a bad odor in the car. At that time he thought he should check into it. It was then that he went and got the car.
So they checked out the car odor after the questioned her, but they knew about it from the beginning. Cindy told them, I think GA told them, and dispatch should have told them.

IIRC, the responding officer testified at the bond hearing that in his opinion the odor he smelled was decomp. I'll see if I can find and confirm that.

It is unfortunate but I think LE was aware of the decomp smell but did not act on it for about 12-24 hours or so? It may be nothing, may be something but if you think about it, CA was more concerned about the car than LE was, so cleaning it out should not be considered any kind of faux pax because why would Cindy be expected to be more careful than LE was?
 
I've thought a lot about that car smell and what might have transpired to make it turn out the way it did.

I think we all agree that the smell was mentioned on the third 911 call, but that was after the officers had already been dispatched, and it may not have been relayed to them by the dispatcher. She also may have thought that since CA had mentioned the smell in her call, she would likely impart that information to the officers when they arrived.

When the officers did arrive, it did not seem as if the smell of the car was mentioned by family members. The car was in the garage, but the door was closed. If anyone had noticed the smell, someone may have told them the car had had garbage in the trunk when it had been towed. I got the distinct impression that the car was downplayed, and not just because the central theme of the call was Caylee's whereabouts.

I'm not sure exactly when YM arrived on the scene, but he is an officer that deals with child neglect. Initially the entire family was indicating this was a possible kidnapping that happened at another location. KC and her car had ostensibly not been on the premises much, if at all, for a month. So I think the impression was that nothing about the Anthony home was viewed as a potential crime scene.

Obviously after riding around with KC most of the night, Yuri came up with a different theory as to what was going on. IIRC, he dropped KC back home around 2 am or so and he and the other officers picked her up after 8 am the next morning. At that point, there may have been time to reconcile the reports of the dispatcher/s who took the calls with Yuri's own report of the night before, but perhaps not. However, I thought at the time that the fact JA, who is a homicide cop, was there for the interview at Universal meant that LE suspected foul play.

They knew her car had been in impound for two weeks, but they were careful enough to have sent someone over to the tow lot to grab the garbage bag.

LE also knew when GA and CA had picked up the car, and that CA had admitted to some light "cleaning", so if they had any idea the Pontiac might have been a crime scene, they knew it had already been compromised. I think they were hoping to make headway questioning KC and getting her to admit what happened and did not realize she would become stubbornly uncooperative. They may also have given her parents the benefit of the doubt (seeing as how GA was ex-LE) and not thought that further cleaning of the car or removal of evidence would occur. They also had to reason to believe at this point that her parents would become increasingly uncooperative as the days went on; I think they genuinely believed that KC's parents were more anxious to find Caylee than save KC from being accountable for whatever happened.

I imagine that, in retrospect, they wish they had become suspicious sooner, but they might not have felt until they spent the time with KC that the car was that key a piece of evidence - literally everything she initially told them was that Caylee was with someone else - and it might have been contaminated in many different ways during the last 30 days.
 
I may be way off but I remember reading that Cindy told LE abt the smell of "garbage" in the car, and that was why LE didn't check the smell in the car right away.
I am not sure abt this but in all the discussion concerning CA, LE and the smell in the car, this is what I remember reading.
(Now back to lurking!)


ETA
I'm now wondering if Cindy's comment of "garbage" to LE was intentionally misleading. The family was already in cover-up mode.
 
I've thought a lot about that car smell and what might have transpired to make it turn out the way it did.

I think we all agree that the smell was mentioned on the third 911 call, but that was after the officers had already been dispatched, and it may not have been relayed to them by the dispatcher. She also may have thought that since CA had mentioned the smell in her call, she would likely impart that information to the officers when they arrived.

When the officers did arrive, it did not seem as if the smell of the car was mentioned by family members. The car was in the garage, but the door was closed. If anyone had noticed the smell, someone may have told them the car had had garbage in the trunk when it had been towed. I got the distinct impression that the car was downplayed, and not just because the central theme of the call was Caylee's whereabouts.

I'm not sure exactly when YM arrived on the scene, but he is an officer that deals with child neglect. Initially the entire family was indicating this was a possible kidnapping that happened at another location. KC and her car had ostensibly not been on the premises much, if at all, for a month. So I think the impression was that nothing about the Anthony home was viewed as a potential crime scene.

Obviously after riding around with KC most of the night, Yuri came up with a different theory as to what was going on. IIRC, he dropped KC back home around 2 am or so and he and the other officers picked her up after 8 am the next morning. At that point, there may have been time to reconcile the reports of the dispatcher/s who took the calls with Yuri's own report of the night before, but perhaps not. However, I thought at the time that the fact JA, who is a homicide cop, was there for the interview at Universal meant that LE suspected foul play.

They knew her car had been in impound for two weeks, but they were careful enough to have sent someone over to the tow lot to grab the garbage bag.

LE also knew when GA and CA had picked up the car, and that CA had admitted to some light "cleaning", so if they had any idea the Pontiac might have been a crime scene, they knew it had already been compromised. I think they were hoping to make headway questioning KC and getting her to admit what happened and did not realize she would become stubbornly uncooperative. They may also have given her parents the benefit of the doubt (seeing as how GA was ex-LE) and not thought that further cleaning of the car or removal of evidence would occur. They also had to reason to believe at this point that her parents would become increasingly uncooperative as the days went on; I think they genuinely believed that KC's parents were more anxious to find Caylee than save KC from being accountable for whatever happened.

I imagine that, in retrospect, they wish they had become suspicious sooner, but they might not have felt until they spent the time with KC that the car was that key a piece of evidence - literally everything she initially told them was that Caylee was with someone else - and it might have been contaminated in many different ways during the last 30 days.
if the dispatch did not relay critical information about a missing child to the responding officers they are probably out of work right now.
But I recognize that perhaps it could have fallen through the cracks, which would be unfortunate.
But the dipatch isn't the only reason to think they were told.I am trying to pull the docs together for you right now.
Maybe we should take this to the car thread?
brb
 
if the dispatch did not relay critical information about a missing child to the responding officers they are probably out of work right now.
But I recognize that perhaps it could have fallen through the cracks, which would be unfortunate.
But the dipatch isn't the only reason to think they were told.I am trying to pull the docs together for you right now.
Maybe we should take this to the car thread?
brb

Well, I think maybe the fact three separate calls were received and that by the time the smell was mentioned it was the third one, may have been the factor. I doubt most people call three times and I'm not sure the content of any but the first one may have been initially related. I agree it's a good idea to move. I'll put on my seat belt.
 
Thanks Madame Bean - I am officially dizzy!

I think the real question for me is why the delay from the afternoon of the 16th, when KC was in custody, until picking it up on the 17th when the cadaver dogs hit. Perhaps LE realized that, despite the compromised car, it would be hard to remove decomp smell and they decided to get the paperwork together so they could impound it as well as arranging for the dogs to confirm their suspicions.
 
thx for moving my post JB
(I'll try not to drift OT again!)
 
Thanks Madame Bean - I am officially dizzy!

I think the real question for me is why the delay from the afternoon of the 16th, when KC was in custody, until picking it up on the 17th when the cadaver dogs hit. Perhaps LE realized that, despite the compromised car, it would be hard to remove decomp smell and they decided to get the paperwork together so they could impound it as well as arranging for the dogs to confirm their suspicions.
GA and CA handed the car over voluntarily when LE asked for it.They wanted to help the investigation anyway possible. They were both concerned about the car smell which George reiterated even in his 8-4-08 interview, so he was still candid about the smell 3 weeks later.
beanE has some good information that she may have the links for.

There is a baby missing for 31 days and a car with decomp smell in it.They should have grabbed that car.

I have been told by another member that Lee said early on that LE let KC go in the garage alone that night as well. I don't have the link but looking. That would not be a good situation.
 
Well, I think maybe the fact three separate calls were received and that by the time the smell was mentioned it was the third one, may have been the factor. I doubt most people call three times and I'm not sure the content of any but the first one may have been initially related. I agree it's a good idea to move. I'll put on my seat belt.
I cannot imagine that dispatch did not share that information. It's what they do.
 
I cannot imagine that dispatch did not share that information. It's what they do.

I know; it's puzzling. For all we know they may have and decided not to act on it and impound something until they absolutely had to. Most people would not have carried on lying to LE as long as KC did.
 
I just wonder since they didn't ask her about the smell when they were out at Universal it is possible that they thought the smell was just trash.
 
...seems like the report of shovel borrowing from Brian got the wheels turning to have K9's search the backyard...and in the process examine the Pontiac. IIRC, the LEO was wrapping up his first discussion w/ Brian @ his home when Yuri dispatched him over to the Anthony's (next door) just before the K9's arrived 7/17...thinking around 4-6PM.

I don't have the reports of OCSO visit to Sawgrass handy, but, recall they dropped Casey off @ Hopespring the morning of 7/16 after the drive around that began late PM 7/15, early AM 7/16...only to come back and arrest her ~4PM 7/16.

The blue-handled trash bag @ the towyard was recovered ~9PM just before LE showed up @ the house again on 7/16PM and snapped the pic in the sideyard. The timing of the pic taken in the dumpster and the pic taken in the sideyard suggest they went straight from the towyard to the house. Whether that was planned or not...who knows. But one would think the blue-handled trash bag reeked of decomp and would have sent the responding LEO to the Pontiac regardless of the content of the 3rd 911 call. Not poking @ LE here...thinking that perhaps this is what put the wheels in motion to obtain the car. That I recall...G&C gave the car over w/o a warrant 7/17. As far as LE knew @ this point in time they had grandparents that had reported the crime...hence...no tremendous compulsion to suspect they would interfere w/ the investigation/evidence.

BTW...a little OT. I recall reading another post 'bout G&C's intentions being suspect by pulling the Pontiac into the garage vs. letting it 'air out' outside. I don't recall where I got the impression...but I had the impression that George removed the battery from the car...and I thought that was an effort to keep Casey from showing up when they weren't there and taking the car. Explaining all of that to ask this...I don't recall ever reading how Casey opened G&C's garage door. Do they have RF transmitters and Casey had one? If so...she must've had it in her purse vs. the car (e.g. visor) post-6/27 entries (e.g. 7/2 w/ Sean). Otherwise, it could've been a touchpad mounted to the door w/ a code. Just curious. Otherwise...Casey had access to the garage...so pulling it in there vs. leaving it outside offered no extra protection from Casey taking it :waitasec:
 
I just wonder since they didn't ask her about the smell when they were out at Universal it is possible that they thought the smell was just trash.

That's a good point, but I imagine the smell in the car was secondary information. The focus of the interview was Caylee's immediate whereabouts. The fact a homicide detective was on the scene means they may have suspected something but were not ready to come forward with details. KC had not told them anything true yet; they were limiting questions to specific information to contain her lies to what they actually had verified thus far. They were far more concerned with locating Caylee and why KC might have prevaricated on everything up to that point, imo.
 
BJB - seems to me I remember a keyless entry - using a keypad with PIN.
 
I know; it's puzzling. For all we know they may have and decided not to act on it and impound something until they absolutely had to. Most people would not have carried on lying to LE as long as KC did.
what I am reading is the interview between GA and YM. In there which I am trying to find, GA and YM specifically reference the fact that GA told YM about the smell in the car when he got there.

The reason this is troublesome to me is the way YM describes the moment he "rememebred" the smell during the bond hearing. It is almost an afterthought like some information he got in passing was worth checking out. IMO, CA and GA were far more concerned about the smell than LE was and I cannot figure that out.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLb0RYC1q5o[/ame]

I am also trying to find where Lee says that LE let KC go in the garage alone that night.
 
what I am reading is the interview between GA and YM. In there which I am trying to find, GA and YM specifically reference the fact that GA told YM about the smell in the car when he got there.

The reason this is troublesome to me is the way YM describes the moment he "rememebred" the smell during the bond hearing. It is almost an afterthought like some information he got in passing was worth checking out. IMO, CA and GA were far more concerned about the smell than LE was and I cannot figure that out.

I am also trying to find where Lee says that LE let KC go in the garage alone that night.

IIRC, Lee alluded to it during his first interview in which he describes having a conversation with KC in the garage when LE was there. We may have extrapolated she had LE's permission, but I think in a second interview he confirmed it (maybe the August depo?).
 
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