The Ramseys are Cleared

[Medea]

The ransom note points away from the Ramseys, because LE's hand writing experts excluded John Ramsey and scored Patsy as a low probability source.

LOL, well only ONE PERSON wrote it, so John Ramsey being excluded means little, one of the two of them would have to be excluded, since two people didn't write the note, one person did. Ergo, Patsy Ramsy, who cannot be excluded, is a good bet to have written the note.

Does anyone know of any case where the kidnapper wrote a practice note in the home of the victim?

What percentage of kidnapping notes are handwritten in the first place?
If I was to hazard a guess, I'd guess less than one percent of ransom notes are handwritten

 

[RiverRat]

I seriously doubt that the poster will heed your advice. It might be amusing to watch the show!!!

The Ramseys were never interrogated by LE before they went on the air with CNN. They ducked the cops for four long months!!! Four freaking months! I don't fault them with retaining counsel, I do fault them with NOT helping LE by submitting to questioning right after this happened. Remember, Johnny wanted to fly to Atlanta that night! He was making arrangements to leave while his daughter was still in the house laying beneath the Christmas tree!!!

It'sssssssss ShowTime!!! :woohoo:

Thank you for pointing out again what we all know as the Truth - it was in April of the following year before John and Patsy had all of the information they needed to compose themselves long enough to give their cooperation to the investigators........the same investigators, that had in the meantime, questioned countless others that were not avoiding them!

 

[Wudge]

Ohhhhhh - why didn't you just tell me that you were a defense attorney?!

Pedigree matters little. The ability to assess and grade the evidence is always the key.

 

[trixie]

I kind of expect to hear you burst into a verse of "You're So Vain." lol


Good post, Trixie.

ha! You don't want to hear me sing. But I stand by every word of my post.

 

[trixie]

Pedigree matters little. The ability to assess and grade the evidence is always the key.

And when will you be attaining that ability?

 

[Wudge]

LOL, well only ONE PERSON wrote it, so John Ramsey being excluded means little, one of the two of them would have to be excluded, since two people didn't write the note, one person did. Ergo, Patsy Ramsy, who cannot be excluded, is a good bet to have written the note.

Does anyone know of any case where the kidnapper wrote a practice note in the home of the victim?

What percentage of kidnapping notes are handwritten in the first place?
If I was to hazard a guess, I'd guess less than one percent of ransom notes are handwritten

Name a handwriting expert who evaluated the ransom note for the BPD or the FBI and said it was written by Patsy ?

 

[Medea]

Name a handwriting expert who evaluated the ransom note for the BPD or the FBI and said it was written by Patsy ?

She cannot be excluded. Add that with the fact that it was written inside the house, that a practice note was written, that she was trying to disguise her handwriting and the complete insanity of a kidnapper writing a ransom note after entering the home instead of before, the contents of the note itself which indicate that it is a 'fake' ransom note...I would say there is a very, very high probability that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note.

 

[Wudge]

She cannot be excluded. Add that with the fact that it was written inside the house, that a practice note was written, that she was trying to disguise her handwriting and the complete insanity of a kidnapper writing a ransom note after entering the home instead of before, the contents of the note itself which indicate that it is a 'fake' ransom note...I would say there is a very, very high probability that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note.

In giving her handwriting samples, who accused Patsy of trying to disguise her handwriting?

 

[Medea]

This is all I can find on US kidnapping

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/2007/01/raw-data-kidnapping-statistics.html

Out of 800,000 cases 115 met the criteria for stereotypical stranger kidnapping. No mention of ransoms...but I'd say we are talking fractions of a percentage point for kidnappping for ransom+handwritten note. It just doesn't happen.

 

[trixie]

Does anybody know how to get a transcript of Dan Abrahms show last night, i think it's called Verdict with Dan Abrams or something like that. Mike Kane was on there and said something very interesting that i want to check before i post. I've already checked the website and it's not on there. Thanks!

( Wudge , Mike Kane was the special prosecuter who essentially ran the Grand Jury. I'm telling you this because I'm betting you don't know who he is. I'm also betting you have an opinion about him regardless.)

 

[wenchie]

The ransom note points away from the Ramseys, because LE's hand writing experts excluded John Ramsey and scored Patsy as a low probability source.

Why do you waste time trying to convince people of things about which they know better?

The handwriting in not the reason that those I stated above believe it was written by Patsy.

 

[angelwngs]

Am I the only parent who, when having temporarily "lost" a child - looked in the same places over & over again - in the same closets, under the same beds, etc. etc.

I remember that Sharon Rocha was even looking in trash cans for her daughter.

For a parent to take one cursory look through ONE FLOOR of the house and then settle into a chair is very telling, IMO.

Even if you believed the child HAD BEEN kidnapped, you'd be looking all over for clues...entry/exit points.....ANYTHING that had been left behind.

Patsy didn't go down to that basement once, did she?

To my knowledge, no, she didn't after she 'discovered the ransom note'.

During the night, prior to the discovery of the ransom note... Humm...:waitasec:

I pray that I never know for a fact what I would do in a tragic situation such as this, but when my youngest son was missing for a very short time, in our home when he was a toddler, I searched every square inch of our home multiple times until I finally found him curled up in a laundry basket asleep under a towel. His older brother had played 'hide and seek' with him and had decided not to do the 'seek' part... Typical brothers...

ITA with your post. I feel sure that I would have frantically searched as you suggested for any answers which might have lead me to my missing daughter.

 

[reefshadow]

And wore gloves through out the entire commission of the crime except when re-dressing her. I have my doubts

It is entirely possible he was still wearing gloves, other surfaces of your skin (like your arms) will touch the fabric as you dress yourself or someone else. Especially considering the weight of her inert dead body it is unlikely that he would have been able to avoid touching her with his arms while dressing her.

 

[Seeker]

Assuming there was foreign DNA under JBR's fingernails, why was it there unless she was fighting off someone? If it had happened earlier that night, Karole's theory makes a lot of sense: that JBR deposited it herself.
I'm still vacillating about this case.

I'm also concerned like other posters have expressed that this "Touch DNA" is given so much credence.

However, if I was on a murder trial jury against the R's, I'd have to look at the "Touch DNA," and I'd no longer say guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But if I was on a civil jury panel, I'd still say the preponderance of the evidence is against the R's. I can't help but wonder if that's what's really in the DA's mind. "We can't convict you, so nevermind."

If she had been fighting off someone there would be a heck of a lot more DNA under her nails! Enough for a full code string...

 

[Wudge]

Does anybody know how to get a transcript of Dan Abrahms show last night, i think it's called Verdict with Dan Abrams or something like that. Mike Kane was on there and said something very interesting that i want to check before i post. I've already checked the website and it's not on there. Thanks!

( Wudge , Mike Kane was the special prosecuter who essentially ran the Grand Jury. I'm telling you this because I'm betting you don't know who he is. I'm also betting you have an opinion about him regardless.)

I followed this case in great detail from January 1997 to April 2003. I know who Michael Kane is.

As for an opinion, I thought Lin Wood did well in responding to a question on Larry's King's show, 8-30-2000.

LIN WOOD, RAMSEY ATTORNEY: Well, even innocent people need to be protected from overzealous and less than objective prosecutors such as Michael Kane.

 

[LI_Mom]

She cannot be excluded. Add that with the fact that it was written inside the house, that a practice note was written, that she was trying to disguise her handwriting and the complete insanity of a kidnapper writing a ransom note after entering the home instead of before, the contents of the note itself which indicate that it is a 'fake' ransom note...I would say there is a very, very high probability that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note.

Leaving the ransom note on the stairs instead of on the child's bed seems a little curious also.

If you're kidnapping a child, isn't it easier to leave the note right there instead of carrying the child downstairs & then having to bend over to place the papers on the circular steps... all the while trying NOT to fall over & go BOOM.

And why leave the note there UNTIL you're ready to exit the house... what if someone wakes up unexpectedly & finds you in the house.

After she's dead, who would go back to the steps to leave such incriminating evidence that might link you to a murder? At that point... such a stealthy intruder certainly wouldn't start making such stupid blunders.

 

[Seeker]

It seems so unlikely to me that someone who could have known about the $117K figure who had no alibi for that night could have been overlooked by police or the Ramsey's who accused just about anybody they could think of....this guy, who knew the layout of the house, knew about John Ramsey's bonus somehow was overlooked?

I believe it to be absolutely IMPOSSIBLE that a stranger with no access to the family committed this crime. The doillar figure in the ransom note is too specific. I've always believed it was Patsy's attempt to cast suspicion on a disgruntled employee.

Exactly my point. It had to be either John or Patsy who wrote the note. I have always wondered if they didn't take turns penning it.

 

[LI_Mom]

If she had been fighting off someone there would be a heck of a lot more DNA under her nails! Enough for a full code string...

That's true.

A pageant girl must have had fingernails of near equal length on all her fingers.

 

[Medea]

Exactly my point. It had to be either John or Patsy who wrote the note. I have always wondered if they didn't take turns penning it.

I finally decided that John Ramsey is just in denial. He could never admit to himself that his wife was a nut job who killed their daughter. I don't think he had any active role in covering up the crime, he took his cues from Patsy and then helped her tacitly by stonewalling and protecting her...by now he has 100% convinced himself that an intruder killed his daughter.

 

[RiverRat]

Exactly my point. It had to be either John or Patsy who wrote the note. I have always wondered if they didn't take turns penning it.

One wrote it, one dictated it.....and hence, Listen Carefully instead of Read Carefully.