The Roy Kronk Connection- Opening Statements-Kronk takes the stand 2011.06.28

[Frigga]

BBM:

Interesting that the Anthonys (Casey included) have been quick to call the police to their home other times. Of course there was George calling about gas cans, then Casey herself while she was out on bail.

There was also a couple other calls from earlier before all this, for other "drama" at that house.

Great point! I wonder if the SAO will bring this up in trial some how.

 

[SMK]

BBM:

Interesting that the Anthonys (Casey included) have been quick to call the police to their home other times. Of course there was George calling about gas cans, then Casey herself while she was out on bail.

There was also a couple other calls from earlier before all this, for other "drama" at that house.

I agree. But what if the defense spins this to mean GA dare not allow an autopsy after an accidental drowning because he had been molesting Caylee? And Casey is the daughter, also abused, who has Stockholm Syndrome and covers up for the abuser? Or will they not sink this low? Maybe I am not giving them enough credit. Either way, it would not be believed. :waitasec:ETA: cannot think of any other reason GA would not phone 911 after accidental drowning, in their scenario.....maybe I just don't get it....

 

[Steely Dan]

Then why would he videotape himself slicing open bags and digging around under pavers at that house?

Do you think it's possible that he was searching for the body at that house because it was owned by a Gonzalez?

Hoover was videotaping him. Supposedly against his will.

I think he planned to bury the body in that house if he found it and was checking for places to put it. JMO

Who else thinks the defense is reading this thread looking for ideas to use when it's time to present their case?

If the DT was reading our threads they would have come up with a better story. JMO

Jose's Opening Statement is truly THE most ridiculous story ever told, and the only thing that seems worse is that some people are actually concerned it may fly! The people on that jury, are just like us- they will not be taken in by such a nonsensical and utterly unbelievable tale of fantasy. Jose will go down in history as the laughing stock of defense attorneys in the Twenty First Century.

ETA: Leonard Padilla could never get over the fact that ex Bounty Hunter- turned Meter Reader, Roy Kronk, found the body and not him- IMO!

The people on the jury are not as familiar with the minutia of this case as we are. They are only shown a select portion of the evidence. OJ got off so thinking she might is not ludicrous. JMO

 

[SMK]

Steely Dan said: The people on the jury are not as familiar with the minutia of this case as we are. They are only shown a select portion of the evidence. OJ got off so thinking she might is not ludicrous. JMO

This is very worrisome. They may not understand how far the dynamic between Cindy and Casey could become a driving force, even to murder....they may miss many, many things. With the Amanda Knox case, it took me two years of reading and posting to grasp everything. As much as Jose Baez may be seen as clownish, there is something attractive about him, especially his voice. This could have an unconscious influence as well....just rambling.......

 

[Donjeta]

We don't really know what the answers are to some of your questions. This is because the defense has not been very specific on a number of things in their opening statements. I would imagine (but am not certain) that these things will be somehow explained when the trial goes over to the defense and they call their witnesses. I'm not saying that their story makes sense or is going to work. I'm just trying to repeat what was actually said in the opening.

For example, you asked where would Kronk get the duct tape from. This suggested to me that you misunderstood the defense and thought that Baez said Kronk applied the tape to Caylee. I tried to correct that by telling you that that isn't their theory.

The defense is fingering Kronk for tampering with the body because they want to try to raise reasonable doubt by way of a tampered-with crime scene. You could say: but so what... what difference does it make? Well, that kind of thing is what criminal defenses do. They go after reasonable doubt everywhere they can. Even where and when it doesn't make much sense. It's what they do.

Kronk left himself vulnerable because his actions, calls and statements are often contradictory and can sound like he is trying to hide something or is simply lying about some things. Even if he is being completely honest and forthright he can still sound suspicious. The defense is salivating for the chance to get him on the stand.

BBM. I was commenting on the Andrea Lyon quote who said that the duct tape may have been brought there afterwards. If George dumped the body in the woods and Roy Kronk tampered with the scene it IMO suggests RK as the duct tape adding person. Also, didn't JB indicate that we may never know what George did with the body but Roy Kronk got it in some undisclosed manner and hid it in the Suburban Drive site. If the duct tape was brought there afterwards it would be Roy Kronk unless he told someone else where he put Caylee.

I understand why defense attorneys want crime scenes tampered with but it just makes this story more and more implausible imo because they are piling up too many things that are conspiring against poor little Casey. Too many coincidences and too many people doing bizarre things for no reason.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Also, didn't JB indicate that we may never know what George did with the body but Roy Kronk got it in some undisclosed manner and hid it in the Suburban Drive site. If the duct tape was brought there afterwards it would be Roy Kronk unless he told someone else where he put Caylee.

Baez said that George applied the duct tape. Baez did not say that Kronk put the body into the woods. He says that Kronk moved the body but he was very non-specific. He didn't say from where-to-where and he didn't say when.

 

[Ilenser]

I know......I know.........

Roy was reading meters two blocks away and he heard
"LOOK WHAT YOU DID!!!"
and knowing that he had just won the Lottery, he then put his fiendish plan in motion. He snuck in the garage to steal duct tape and waited for his chance to steal what nobody would ever notice to be gone (a child)....

And the rest is history.

 

[Donjeta]

Baez said that George applied the duct tape. Baez did not say that Kronk put the body into the woods. He says that Kronk moved the body but he was very non-specific. He didn't say from where-to-where and he didn't say when.

Because it never happened. IMO. He also didn't know what time it was when Caylee accidentally drowned because she didn't.

 

[kpalma715]

:fence:

You may have a point there. All kinds of odd connections happen within crimes all the time. Perhaps Baez even got the idea from Casey bringing some of these factors in. Are you saying Kronk may have been a "bad nanny" while Caylee was alive ( I HAVE heard of some cases: A little girl was stupidly left with an Ice cream truck driver as a "baby sitter" and he would take her on his routes, and molested her)---or do you mean he was asked to "watch the body"? I do NOT think your theory is implausible. In fact, it is interesting.....:waitasec:Tell me more.....

Thanks for the reply, but I am just not satisfied that RK was just a regular citzen who found the body. If i remember correctly werent there a lot of internet searches on escort services in the Orlando area. I always had a thought that maybe Casey was a possible internet escort. My husband told me, he doesn't think my theory made sense, but he said that there is a definite connection, but he cant figure out what it can be. I dont know what it is, but the day I found out Roy Kronk called 911 on 3 occassions never sat well with me. Also, he told his son he knew where the body was in Novmeber and told him to watch the news. IMO, I feel Casey is 100% is guilty, but I dont feel RK is 100% innocent. If I was on the jury, I would recomend LIFE and not death possibly for this missing puzzle piece in this case. In RK eyes if he is involved, I am sure he was never worried about Casey telling the truth since she sat in jail so long and she claimed she was innocent.

 

[kpalma715]

There was no reward at that time, so Mr. Kronk did not stand to gain anything. He aslo, as a city employee could not have collected any reward if there had been one given at that time.

Wasnt LP offering a reward?

 

[Mohabi]

Hoover was videotaping him. Supposedly against his will.

I think he planned to bury the body in that house if he found it and was checking for places to put it. JMO



If the DT was reading our threads they would have come up with a better story. JMO



The people on the jury are not as familiar with the minutia of this case as we are. They are only shown a select portion of the evidence. OJ got off so thinking she might is not ludicrous. JMO

Please remind me: who is Hoover?

 

[katydid23]

:fence:
Thanks for the reply, but I am just not satisfied that RK was just a regular citzen who found the body. If i remember correctly werent there a lot of internet searches on escort services in the Orlando area. I always had a thought that maybe Casey was a possible internet escort. My husband told me, he doesn't think my theory made sense, but he said that there is a definite connection, but he cant figure out what it can be. I dont know what it is, but the day I found out Roy Kronk called 911 on 3 occassions never sat well with me. Also, he told his son he knew where the body was in Novmeber and told him to watch the news. IMO, I feel Casey is 100% is guilty, but I dont feel RK is 100% innocent. If I was on the jury, I would recomend LIFE and not death possibly for this missing puzzle piece in this case. In RK eyes if he is involved, I am sure he was never worried about Casey telling the truth since she sat in jail so long and she claimed she was innocent.

If Casey had been working as a professional escort we would know about that already. People would have come forward and/or LE would have found evidence on her cell and computer records.

The escort services were looked at on the computer, in between searches for employment as a security guard, and home improvemnent sites. So we can be sure the defense will be bringing those searches up when they lay out their case.

Kronk's son said that he was not sure when his dad called and talked about finding the body. He said it was in November OR December. That is not very credible imo, besides the fact they were estranged for 18 years, He may have been very vindictive in his testimony.

But the main point is the problem people seem to have with him calling 911 so many times. I guess they have never been in that same position, of trying to pass along tips or info like that, and having to make those calls over and over. In my experience, that is exactly how it works.

I worked in the public school system for 20 yrs, and several times I had info that I wanted to pass on to CPS or LE. It NEVER took just one call to get anything done. I found myself doing the exact same thing he did whenj I once tried to report a child being severely neglected. I would call and make a report, wait for them to make a visit, and then find out they drove out there, spoke to one family member at the door, then turned around and left, never even examining or speaking to the child. I called again, twice that week.

Then, a month later, I called again with a new complaint, about some new bruises. Again, nothing was done. It took 4 months and several calls for anything to happen. So I have no hinky feelings about Kronk having to call so many times.

 

[angeldust]

Baez is in la la land along with his client I dont understand how Roy kronk made HIMSELF vulnerable imo the DT did that. kronk had co workers with him the first time he called, not his fault the officer who came out was a wally.

I honestly wish baez gave up the ghost at the beginning of all this and let a more experienced lawyer do their thing. It s so wrong to let your own inflated ego get in the way of effectively defending your client, admit it is too much for you but you would love to be on board with the trial doing anything to help just for the valuable experience alone. It takes a big person to admit they ve bit off more than they can chew, but also one I would respect for their honesty, maybe thats just me, but I like honest people.

 

[kpalma715]

Does anyone know, if RK was a regular meter reader at the Anthony house.

 

[DawnTCB]

I don't want to put aside Dominick Casey's search at the vacant house on Brackenwood Drive because to me it seems to undermine the theory that there was a hot tip on the body location coming from Casey Anthony in jail.
Why would Casey's jailhouse tip lead DC on a fruitless search of a vacant house property if she knew that the body was in a swamp on Suburban Drive? While at that house, DC slashes open black plastic bags and digs under paver stones.

If Lee or Cindy were relaying information that came from Casey in jail why would either of them send DC to a vacant house? That house has neither woods nor swamp. It did have plastic bags and paver stones, but how and why would Lee or Cindy even know that and why would it matter even if they did know that?

Do you see why the videotaped PI search of the vacant house has me thinking that he wasn't really acting on any tip that ultimately came from Casey in jail?

HD - :seeya: thank you again for taking my theories seriously.

I am unfortunately on vacation on a horrible dial-up connection on an ancient computer :banghead: but Hoover provides an explanation of why they went to the Brackenwood house in his deposition. I will see if I can find the text version and look it up, but IIRC it is around the part where they are discussing DC "showboating" on the video for CA's benefit, and he was indicating that DC might have gone there because of another tip, but JH thought he just wanted CA to see him acting all tough-guy PI slashing bags and sifting through dirt.

Whether that is true or not "we may never know" but my theory was that they went there because the tip was not terribly specific. I think with all the secret coded messages about pavers and bags and Gonzalez's, it is possible DC went there because he had a hunch about a possible different interpretation of the clues he was given.

BTW, I think the defense has been laying the groundwork for a "who moved the body" scenario the last couple of days... asking about whether there were pavers at the scene, was there a white board, please Ms. Welch get down here on the floor and show the jury what 19 feet looks like. But I think they are going to try to say that where he was in August is not where the remains showed up.

But good news for RK and bad news for the DT hoping to use this theory, it was very clear from yesterday's testimony that the "separations" took place before the decomposition was very far along - for example all the spine bones were in one place, the left foot bones were together, etc. - which would not have happened if they had floated or were otherwise separated after they were skeletonized. And Dr. G said four weeks to skeletonize at the most, right? So before we even knew she was missing, and way before RK would have seen (or not seen) the remains in August. If he staged this scene (which of course he didn't - crazy) he absolutely could not have staged it while ICA was in jail, and if they try this approach it should be fairly easy to refute.

Ok, off to look for JH's explanation of the Brackenwood house.

 

[ColdDayIn]

Let me start my post off by saying that I in no way think that RK moved, hid, or did anything with the body.

With that said, I know RK's behavior appears suspicious, and I have gone over in my mind a hundred times how this whole scenario has played out and tried to piece it together.

Here is my theory:
I think RK had a hunch and DID see the remains in the woods in August when he reported it. I also think that after the police had been out there multiple times and did not find it everyone wrote it off EXCEPT RK. RK KNEW what he had seen. We know that RK was concerned with collecting reward money, and I think it is possible that he thought to himself that the reward might go up in time and he would just sit back and see if the $$ reward grew. I think he thought that he had done his part in reporting it and that he just figured that eventually he would report it one last time. In December, on the last time he reported it, I believe it was because he had that car bill and he was hard up for money. Christmas was right around the corner and what better time to cash in for real this time?

Yeah, that might not have been the most ethical thing to do, but to give him credit he did report it what 3 times in August? Just because he decided to be greedy, IMO does not = having possession of the body and moving it. I think this was a man who had followed the case, it really moved him, he followed his hunches, found the body, reported the body, reported the body, reported the body, then sat back until the time was right for HIM.

I absolutely think that the DT will never be able to prove that he had that body or moved it, nor do I think a jury will even buy into the notion that that is what happened. I hate to see what's going to happen in the near future with the RK case, and I know the DT is going to try to tear him to shreds, and I just hate that an innocent person in all this, a hero in his own rights for allowing the world closure in finding the body is going to be slimed and talked about in the media like a shady body snatcher.

All of this is JMO. RK will be in my thoughts when the DT decides to throw him under the bus and drive over and reverse and drive over and reverse.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I'm shocked that anyone could think RK has any involvement. It scares me to think one person on that jury will buy anything the defense is saying. My goodness, she has ruined so many lives!

 

[Ssejors]

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen this motion before. I didn't know they had said that Kronk was a candidate for murder :O. I understand the difficulties with how the body was discovered but whenever that was Caylee was already dead.

IMO and in the light of the current story du jour of the defense I wouldn't like anybody to quote the above motion in court if I was the DT. As Casey has now said that Caylee drowned on her and George's watch, it's not gonna look that good for her if the jurors notice that she has previously lied in a court filing.

"Comes now the defendant Casey Marie Anthony, by and through her attorneys... respectfully moves this court to allow her to introduce at trial circumstantial evidence tending to indicate that a third party, and not Miss Anthony, is equally likely to be responsible for the death of Caylee Marie Anthony"

...

"Despite the suspicious circumstances of Mr. Kronk's involvement in the discovery of the child's remains the state seems never to have treated Mr. Kronk as a possible suspect in the disappearance and the death of Caylee Anthony. Instead, law enforcement and the prosecution have focused solely on Miss Anthony, to the neglect of other suspects and the detriment of the investigation."

"Despite the State's sole focus on herself Miss Anthony has uncovered circumstantial evidence which tends to indicate that Ray M. Kronk is equally as likely to be responsible for the death of Caylee Anthony. While circumstantial in nature, this evidence points to Mr. Kronk just as strongly as the State's circumstantial evidence points to Miss Anthony and clearly raises a reasonable doubt as to her guilt .."

So, basically, since they're now saying that Caylee drowned and Casey knew it all the time, and therefore knew that Roy Kronk had nothing to do with her death and focusing on him as a suspect would just throw the investigation way off track, they're admitting that her previous motion was an attempt to throw an innocent man to the wolves for her disappearance and death. Make up a bigger and a better lie if the previous ones aren't working...

BBM This is ICA's WHOLE MO! That's how she rolls. I LOVE This motion. It shows me how completely STUPID the DT really is. CAYLEE Drown her self. And KRONK most likely convinced her to do it! That's the only logical out come i can see with what the DT said in its OS and what its implying w their OS and this Motion which.. they CLEARLY forgot about.



As and aside. I think HotDog has nailed the Kronk issue right on the head.

Here is my take on it all after reading the thread and getting some pretty clear reasoning from HD. Whether RK had a tip i'm not entirely sure. I figure, if JB is suggesting that he got a tip from his Security guard GF who over heard something from ICA and that tip to RK would make the crime scene inadmissible, and therefor LEO and RK are in Collusion, well then i figure it probably NOT true that RK got a tip from his Guard GF about the Remains and just fluked out.


RK managed to stumble on Caylee's remains prior to Aug 11th, too paranoid to report finding the remains of a missing baby without any WITNESSES that he actually FOUND her remains and wasnt the pervert who put them there. Brings up the issue the next day with coworkers. good place to hide body, so close to home, it wouldnt be surprising if she is in there somewhere... "Hey guys, I see a skull" Coworkers are like, yuk yuk yuk RK thats funny what a coinkydink. but he knows better Aug 11th he calls it in, was dismissed, made a few more calls, finally convinces the coppers to send a LEO. LEO cant be bothered to get his boots wet, decides to dismiss Kronk again, only rudely enough that RK decided Screw it i dont wanna bother. Months later (Dec) RK is on the same route and has to pee, knows that nothing has come out in the news about a body being found on Suburban drive and figures, i'll go pee where I saw the remains, and just.. RECONFIRM for myself that I really did see a skull, when he knew 100% that is what he saw anyway... Sure enough she is still there, the over growth is way less, no water, he gives the skull a tap, audible hollow sound.. and decides to do the right thing again, calls the cops. RK exit stage Left..


There is nothing really hinky about it, IMO. He just happened to be that guy. He's curious and obviously intuitive. He already had a feeling that the baby was not kidnapped by a nanny, his intuition was telling him that ICA did something, and he figured, if im a young woman with a dead child, where do i hide her? Some where close enough that I can still keep an eye on her, but not too close that she is in my own back yard. RK is smart. Maybe not a perfect soul, but smart. and persistent.

 

[DawnTCB]

Ok I did find Hoover's deposition and try as I might I can't seem to paste a link here (or even the text! :banghead: ) from this old computer but it is right after the discussion of who JH thinks was on the phone with DC, he says probably not Cindy, and maybe LA, and then he talks about the abandoned house. He mentions the three pavers in a row, which he thought was odd since DC had pointed out the three pavers in a row at the site on Suburban, and then he started slashing bags and using a hand trowel, which JH interpreted as "show-boating". He said DC told them they had one more place to search before they went, and then appeared to JH to be over-acting and over-searching this location.

Now while I was searching for his deposition I was using my iPhone (way faster than this PC) I found some of the old work done here on WS about the Brackenwood home, and an owner of that home with a son Casey's age with the last name of Gonzales (with an "s"). I searched some other websites and that appears to be accurate (although by all accounts unrelated), and these Gonzales did abandon the home and left, according to some links I found, for Puerto Rico. Does anyone remember or know if that turned out to be true? I have wondered why CA was still searching in Puerto Rico so long for ZFG, and that would explain why she might have sent DC there, just as a precaution, the only person with that last name in ICA's yearbook? That was on the link I found anyway. :sigh: I gotta remember to take vacations in places with better internet access.

Anyway, DC said he was heading to Suburban anyway to "verify" KioMarie's story, so he might just have had Brackenwood on his list for the day anyway before he was interupted by the psychic with no cell phone records.

I did look before I left home but maybe someone can verify for me, we get to see the prosecution's depositions, but we do not get to see the defense's depositions, is that right? They had a three hour interview with RK, but I don't think that was made available to public?

 

[mimmy03]

I agree. BBM

And add the fact that he was paid to walk through this exact neighborhood during the time the child was missing and being desperately searched for. I would have gone into those woods and poked around myself if I were him.

The reason LE did not find her there, imo, is that they probably never imagined that the body would be so close to home. They searched the home itself and the yard, because that happens sometimes. But once a perp decides to move and hide a body they usually go a little further away that the very first wooded swampy patch. And the cell pings were leading them to the airport swampy area. I believe she drove around in that area searching for a dump site, but chickened out because she was not comfortable there. imoo

Didn't know about the pings. I think I heard somewhere that bodies are usually dumped in areas that the killer is familiar with and/or knows.