The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[songline]

I think what it does show is the A clan is involved from the instant Caylee passed, all having full knowledge of that moment. And from that moment until the present moment, they have continued on their course to be a :liar: , :liar:, :liar: , :liar:. Now the Millsteads have joined the :liar: clan.

The millstiens did not join a club they were not former members of no no no "Water meets it's own level"
The rest of your post is great :clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[trixi491]

Could you think of how many coincidences there would have to be for KC to be innocent?

The fact that that decompositional fluids, a hair with a death band and Caylee's DNA, and smell of human decomposition (according to air sample tests, police officers, civilians, and even a nurse) were all present in her trunk was just a coincidence.

The fact that KC abandoned her car and never went back to get it or check on it just days after there seemed to be a dead body in it was just a coincidence.

The fact that not one, but two cadaver dogs hit on the backyard and the car trunk of the mother of a dead little girl was just a coincidence.

High levels of chloroform found in the trunk and a search history of chloroform on the computer (not something your average 22 year old googles) was just a coincidence.

The body being found SO close to the victims house, where she used to bury pets, stuffed in 2 bags matching items from the A house, with duct tape matching theirs (which is actually a rarer type of tape than you think-check the duct tape thread on this), and a heart sticker on it (KC loves heart stickers) was just a coincidence.

The history of the defendant being a sociopath, once wanting to commit herself, lying about everything, and who was known to fight with her jealous mother over her daughter (who is later murdered) was just a coincidence. Also a coincidence that the day after a HUGE fight ensues where her mother strangles her, Caylee goes missing.

Add to this 1) 31 days of her not being reported missing, 2) no evidence of any calls or pings that put her someplace where she could claim she was searching for Caylee, 3) partying/bella vita tattoo/blockbuster/shopping for only herself and friends (not caylee)/showing no emotion whatsoever while daughter is missing, 4) lying to and throwing off/stalling investigators when they try to find Caylee, 5) her first call home wanting to get her boyfriend's phone number, "ugh"ing when someone cried about Caylee, and saying "all anyone cares about is Caylee" and 6) her never asking about, talking about, or attempting to find Caylee all three times she was out on bond. Also add the fact that the person she blamed for this seems to be totally nonexistent.

There is NO way a sane juror could chalk all this up to coincidences and explanations or that SODDI. It's just too much. I'm normally a skeptic of cases like these (it takes a lot to convince me) but there's not a doubt in my mind she's guilty and going down..

 

[countzero]

As ridiculous as this case is and getting stranger and stranger, I am still waiting for the post from someone that will:

claim CA had twins, gave one way, kept KC. It was the other twin that was the party girl, was jealous of KC so she murdered Caylee. Chloroformed KC so she could keep her quiet for 31 days. Then she planned all the evidence to frame (and not with a photo either) KC, changed her appearance and took off for California to be with MH. That's what "KC" wanted to tell him.

The "evil" twin did this to KC to get back at CA ............

So help me if JB uses this theory, I will haunt him.

 

[yolorado]

Which SOs? What evidence? All the registered SOs in FL? In Orlando?

Plus don't forget the money question. How the heck did the SO come in contact with Caylee and get his hands on her and why wouldn't KC know and/or do everthing she could, to tell everything she knew to get her baby out of the hands of a random SO!?

 

[yolorado]

We have zero evidence. Because the state has not released any documentation of the local SO"s being investigated. And if they havent been investigated then JB is gonna jump on that at trial.

Tell me what evidence (not behaviour, but physical evidence) we have that shows that KC and only KC was responsible for caylees death?

My thinking is that the physical evidence could point to anyone who lived in or had access to that house. Its her behaviour and lies that make her look guilty as sin, and she only has herself to blame for that.

So if LE and FBI have investigated and eliminated known SO's, why have we not seen any of this in docs? We saw hundreds of pages of ridiculous psychic tips but no pages on SO's.

KC never told the police how Caylee got into SO hands. She told them she left her at the babysitter. Why would LE be looking for an SO (even though I bet they looked at more than one?) An SO was never KC's scenario. If and SO did take Caylee, why would KC wait until court to expose that? Makes no sense... unless she didn't care that her daughter might be being tortured, raped and murdered? She would have cared, wouldn't she. Or, maybe not?

 

[Gaia713]

Or, that Zanny actually IS a space alien, and left with the mother ship. ;-)

Quick,call Spock. Maybe he can read her mind to find out what planet Caylee was kidnapped to.

I have to ask how this SO or alien might have gotten plastic bags, and a laundry bag from the Anthony home, along with the identicaol heart sticker that matched the ones in the home.

The problem with any SODDI is that the details don't fit.

Think Peterson and how Laci's body happened to surface exactly in the location that Scott placed himself. That shot down any SO or homeless or Satanists in Modesto could have done it. That was the ONE thing that couldn't be explained away, no matter how Marlene tried.

Think Casey and where she buried her dead pets.

 

[Gaia713]

While inconsistencies are not unusual in poorly trained teams, Florida has some of the best dogs in the nation, trained to the highest standards. This is not some back yard mutt, with a green handler, these dog teams are some of the best, if not the best, in the nation. The defense will play he$$ trying to discredit the dog hits.

Particularly when they used two dogs, and the smell was confirmed by George, Cindy, Lee, LE and the towyard owner. That's too manyh people to discredit by saying the "dog was wrong."

Worst case scenario is that the judge will only allow it in for the reasonableness of the search.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

But, a lot of people were quite sure they saw KC (in the woods with a shovel-- wrong woods), Cayee and/or Zanny (over 2,000 "sightings").

I thought OCSD and the FBI tracked ALL the numbers?

Not only did they not track all the numbers she called during the crucial time period they even listed them incorrectly, one of may such “mistakes”. Below is page 2571, hand numbered, showing the calls for the midnight hour of June 18 with who they assign the numbers too. These four calls are one place it looks to me like she is trying to find someone. I won't go into all of why here because I've already stated my thoughts in the June 17-20 thread, IIRC. The calls where there is a discrepancy are the ones given to Broadway Ristorante, following the two calls to two different Papa John's. Not only is this not who she tried to call, the numbers don't even match the actual cell records. How they could make this kind of a mistake, is beyond me, even with Mercury Rx. They are either completely irresponsible, never rechecking their work or they didn't want the numbers to be shown here because it didn't fit with their path. Also below is an image of the actual numbers called from the cell records. I hope the image quality comes through clear enough on both so you can see the numbers to compare.

The actual numbers she tried to call after Papa Johns are two different land lines, not business. The one with 447 exchange is through Florida Digital Network, Orlando, first name Lashida (known thanks to Ibeyounger). The 478 exchange is also a landline through Flkorida Digital Network but in Winter Park. She also called a number ending 9999 on 6/29. This one is a Cingular Cell in Kissimee and apparently has two past addresses connected to it in Lake Worth.

There is also a mysterious number similar to these, ending 9899 instead of 9999 that she called at 5:20 pm on 6/17, the same time of day she told LE she went to pick up Caylee and she was no where to be found, but the day after she finally settled on. Since it is the right time of day LE should have surely tracked this number down. Actually, every number she called should have been thoroughly investigated. All of these very similar numbers lead me to believe she was trying to find someone, trying different exchanges. It would be a number either on the black jack or held in her memory rather than on her phone. If she had a job that wasn't above board she wouldn't keep the names and numbers on her phone, most likely, because her parents might see.

Actually these scenarios are better than the defense, I believe, Casey's team might end up using...ie; Jesse, Ricardo or Amy = Zanny (the real kidnapper).

As for the money question...Casey did not steal from old friends from what we have heard, but she was stealing from family. Shirley says in her interview that the $45,000 Cindy "lost" was due to Casey. Now we don't know if Casey took all of that money, but my feeling is she did take a LOT. This was an ongoing problem. I don't put it past Casey to have engaged in less than respectable employment ventures, but we just have not heard from anyone supporting this. With the world wide attention this case has attracted, I think we would have heard from someone.

If someone else had taken Caylee and murdered her why was there the smell of decomposition, Caylee's hair with post mortem banding, and stain in the trunk of Casey's car ? We have no evidence of this car being in the possession of anyone, but Casey. Items from the Anthony HOME were found with the remains, items that were used to dispose of the body, how would this fit w/ the SODDI defense ?

I can not speak to the issue of the teeth being separate from the remains except to say that Caylee's baby teeth may have been in the beginning stages of seperation, maybe a slight weakness that enabled seperation in the elements...6 months of rain and weather does a lot to a body, bones were found far away from the area the skull was found in, wouldn't it be possible for teeth to be scattered as well ?

I have not heard about anyone seeing Casey and Caylee applying for Gov't assistance.

I don't believe we can give Casey credit for stealing 45,000. If, in fact, this huge unexpected debt happened, it was more likely due to the other rumor being true, a scam that George was involved in. I don't believe there is any way that Cindy would allow that kind of amount to build up without putting a stop to it long before it reached that amount. She didn't have enough income to close her eyes to it. If the stain was tested, they never revealed the results. One statement said it was there when Lee had the car. Who of us doesn't have a stain?

I will repeat again, the FBI lab document does not give any detail as to how they come to the conclusion there is sign of decomp on the hair. There is no mention of banding or anything else. As for the teeth, I went to wiki to double check my facts and there are full roots on the primary teeth. The only ones that may still have a little ways to go are the 2nd molar and canine roots. The adult teeth would not be interfering yet to dissolve the roots. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_development[/ame] the crown of the first adult teeth aren't even developed until 4-5 years. Also, if Faye thrashed her around enough to dislodge the teeth the skull certainly wouldn't be sitting upright and so close to the bag. Her bones weren't scattered that far either, most within 6'.

The woman's name is Goode. It is written about on pdf pg 4 of the document that also contains the chart with the Anthony's and Lazarro's receipt amounts. It has a scan date of April 6 so it was in the more recent docs. I haven't taken the time to wade through all of the tips to find the original call. As I said, this one is the most iffy. Eye witness accounts often have the dates or other details wrong. But, if she had tried to register for services, if it were here, one thing they would require is the parent having a job, revealing the father to make sure he is paying support too. Both of these are things that might have kept her from following through or being lodged into the computer system.

If KC were really searching, there would be record of these "searching" calls. None exist, which means, no searching. We can track her movements by her cell phone pings. If she was searching, she searched TonE's appartment, she searched BlockeBuster, she searched FUSION Ultra Lounge... Busy girl, much like OJ searching every golf course in the country.

And for Chloroform, the lab said the concentration was so high, it could not have come from an incidental source. This was not just a trace of Chloroform found, it was a lot.

I have already addressed one place where she seems to be searching for someone. There are others. Since Arpad Vass said in the preliminary report that there was also decomposing pizza in the trunk that may have contributed to the odor, then later retracted that in the 2nd preliminary report, this whole thing is highly suspect. Notice he starts his findings with stating that Melich sent him the carpet sample, “in reference to reseach”, they had been performing. Clearly this isn't yet proven science, tested and vetted. The chart on pg. 2515 says, Yes, chloroform was found and that it was “unusually high”. But it is incorrect that he said it could not have come from an incidental source. In fact he ends the report by saying the source may not have been in the trunk at the time. We know the garbage had been removed. The control carpet sample also had some chloroform. The studies that were done to determine the information they base these tests on was done primarily with animal bones, rather than flesh so that right there makes this questionable science. Also, while chloroform is not a common ingredient in cleaning products, as he states, that doesn't mean that there are no sources available. Also notice his bolded words on pg. 2527 that say it “...could be of human origin.”

While inconsistencies are not unusual in poorly trained teams, Florida has some of the best dogs in the nation, trained to the highest standards. This is not some back yard mutt, with a green handler, these dog teams are some of the best, if not the best, in the nation. The defense will play he$$ trying to discredit the dog hits.

This remains to be seen. I'm sure at best the dog would have a 95% rate, at worst, maybe 25%. It would also need to be shown that the dog never panted, according to what I am reading because they need to smell long and deep, normally, not under stress from heat. Even the best dog won't perform well under Florida summer conditions.

Trixi, she spent a great deal between gas and phone bills alone. Then friends said she often paid her way and theirs in restaurant.

In reply to all those people smelling “death” in the trunk, that won't hold water either. Neither George, Tony or the lady at the Amscott that got close to the car smelled anything. The scent doesn't grow it dissipates. The smell was very strong 2 weeks later when the car was picked up. That only leaves the garbage in the trunk to account for the smell. It couldn't suddenly show up a month after Caylee went missing. That is easy for the defense to destroy. I'm really surprised anyone is running with it after also reading the statement from Amscott. That smell wasn't there on the 28th or several days before when Tony and George stood at the corner of her trunk.

 

[Phumi]

Originally posted by AquarianEssence"Not only did they not track all the numbers she called during the crucial time period they even listed them incorrectly, one of may such “mistakes”. Below is page 2571, hand numbered, showing the calls for the midnight hour of June 18 with who they assign the numbers too. These four calls are one place it looks to me like she is trying to find someone. I won't go into all of why here because I've already stated my thoughts in the June 17-20 thread, IIRC. The calls where there is a discrepancy are the ones given to Broadway Ristorante, following the two calls to two different Papa John's. Not only is this not who she tried to call, the numbers don't even match the actual cell records. How they could make this kind of a mistake, is beyond me, even with Mercury Rx. They are either completely irresponsible, never rechecking their work or they didn't want the numbers to be shown here because it didn't fit with their path. Also below is an image of the actual numbers called from the cell records. I hope the image quality comes through clear enough on both so you can see the numbers to compare.

The actual numbers she tried to call after Papa Johns are two different land lines, not business. The one with 447 exchange is through Florida Digital Network, Orlando, first name Lashida (known thanks to Ibeyounger). The 478 exchange is also a landline through Flkorida Digital Network but in Winter Park. She also called a number ending 9999 on 6/29. This one is a Cingular Cell in Kissimee and apparently has two past addresses connected to it in Lake Worth.

There is also a mysterious number similar to these, ending 9899 instead of 9999 that she called at 5:20 pm on 6/17, the same time of day she told LE she went to pick up Caylee and she was no where to be found, but the day after she finally settled on. Since it is the right time of day LE should have surely tracked this number down. Actually, every number she called should have been thoroughly investigated. All of these very similar numbers lead me to believe she was trying to find someone, trying different exchanges. It would be a number either on the black jack or held in her memory rather than on her phone. If she had a job that wasn't above board she wouldn't keep the names and numbers on her phone, most likely, because her parents might see."


You really have no way of knowing whether they have tracked down all the numbers. You and others have frequently complained that many posters are convicting
Casey before all the evidence is in, yet you continue to accuse police of incompetence or malicious manipulation of the evidence BEFORE all of their investigation has been released.


originally posted by AquarianEssence"I don't believe we can give Casey credit for stealing 45,000. If, in fact, this huge unexpected debt happened, it was more likely due to the other rumor being true, a scam that George was involved in. I don't believe there is any way that Cindy would allow that kind of amount to build up without putting a stop to it long before it reached that amount. She didn't have enough income to close her eyes to it. If the stain was tested, they never revealed the results. One statement said it was there when Lee had the car. Who of us doesn't have a stain?"

Clearly, Cindy did let it go until it reached that amount. As Cindy's mother and KC's grandmother SP is in a very good position to have the facts.

Can't really take the stain out of context of the smell, the hair, the dogs, the dead child. Once again, we don't have the results. That statement you were referring to was made by Cindy I believe--what more do I need to say about that.


Originally posted by AquarianEssence "I have already addressed one place where she seems to be searching for someone. There are others. Since Arpad Vass said in the preliminary report that there was also decomposing pizza in the trunk that may have contributed to the odor, then later retracted that in the 2nd preliminary report, this whole thing is highly suspect. Notice he starts his findings with stating that Melich sent him the carpet sample, “in reference to reseach”, they had been performing. Clearly this isn't yet proven science, tested and vetted. The chart on pg. 2515 says, Yes, chloroform was found and that it was “unusually high”. But it is incorrect that he said it could not have come from an incidental source. In fact he ends the report by saying the source may not have been in the trunk at the time. We know the garbage had been removed. The control carpet sample also had some chloroform. The studies that were done to determine the information they base these tests on was done primarily with animal bones, rather than flesh so that right there makes this questionable science. Also, while chloroform is not a common ingredient in cleaning products, as he states, that doesn't mean that there are no sources available. Also notice his bolded words on pg. 2527 that say it “...could be of human origin"

Once again PRELIMINARY REPORT. We haven't seen any final reports. You are pre-judging.
As for the animal bones--you have cited a study done on dead pigs several times in other threads to support YOUR arguments. I even called you on it once!

It is common practice in scientific tests to give the results in non-absolute terms.


In reply to all those people smelling “death” in the trunk, that won't hold water either. Neither George, Tony or the lady at the Amscott that got close to the car smelled anything. The scent doesn't grow it dissipates. The smell was very strong 2 weeks later when the car was picked up. That only leaves the garbage in the trunk to account for the smell. It couldn't suddenly show up a month after Caylee went missing. That is easy for the defense to destroy. I'm really surprised anyone is running with it after also reading the statement from Amscott. That smell wasn't there on the 28th or several days before when Tony and George stood at the corner of her trunk.

There was a man at the tow yard who said he smelled the horrific smell when he got near the car. It is wrong to say that the scent dissipates. The odor is due to the growth of bacteria. Therefore as the bacteria grows the odor will grow stonger. Eventually the bacteria will cease to thrive an THEN the smell may begin to dissipate--although when the defense went to do tests on the car, it was reported it STILL smelled. If Caylee was bagged and the liquid contents leaked out when KC picked up the bag to dispose of Caylee thus creating the stain, bacteria would start to grow on the carpet stain. There would be an interval without great odor. The moist stain and hot environment of the car trunk would be very conducive to the growth and therefore increasing smell. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, did it make a noise? If the tow guy (who said he had a cold) didn't smell anything, does that mean there was no smell?

 

[doobiedoo52]

[QUOTE=In reply to all those people smelling “death” in the trunk, that won't hold water either. Neither George, Tony or the lady at the Amscott that got close to the car smelled anything. The scent doesn't grow it dissipates. The smell was very strong 2 weeks later when the car was picked up. That only leaves the garbage in the trunk to account for the smell. It couldn't suddenly show up a month after Caylee went missing. That is easy for the defense to destroy. I'm really surprised anyone is running with it after also reading the statement from Amscott. That smell wasn't there on the 28th or several days before when Tony and George stood at the corner of her trunk.[/QUOTE

This could be a little misleading. If the bag was still in the trunk--triple bagged as NG always tells us---the odor may not have been very noticeable. It's while moving it out of the trunk--probably after the 24th when GA tried to get the gas cans----that the bag probably tore or leaked the fluids which caused the odor. JMO

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

If anyone has any scientific data, articles etc that dispute anything I'm saying, I would appreciate authoritative information. What I state is from what I read on these subjects and from the actual discovery documents. I have given numerous links to these articles, thesis, etc. Yes, I have said I wonder if the possiblity of any pork in the garbage may produce the same chemicals. I say this with good reason. Pigs are very near human in many ways. I didn't say they were exactly the same, I simply said I would like to know all of the chemicals emitted with pig decomposition and compare to all of the chemicals with human. Pigs are so near human they can use their veins or arteries for transplant. I'm sure this is why they are considered unclean by ancient Jewish law. They may have sensed it is almost like cannabilism, LOL.

I would also be very interested to read something authoritative that says that once the source of the bacteria producing object is gone the smell continues to strengthen. The canvas bag was lined with vinyl so a tear in the bag wouldn't leak easily onto the trunk carpet. Besides, they surely would have handed over that test result by now since they finished all the other tests back in August. That's the bombshell that never had a bomb inside to start with. The man at the tow yard said he didn't smell anything when he picked the car up but had a cold. He smelled it when standing with George a month after Caylee went missing. The woman at the Amscott mentioned having no cold at all or a problem with her sense of smell. I doubt Tony has a problem there either.

 

[countzero]

Considering that only partial forensic evidence has been released, we really are premature in our thinking of it. I am reserving judgement on it until all has been presented in court and then will decide. Until then, for me, there really isn't a point to argue what is or isn't.

I still go back to the pings, text msgs and phone calls to eliminate any SODDI theories that may or may not be floated.

 

[MissJames]

Originally posted by AquarianEssence"Not only did they not track all the numbers she called during the crucial time period they even listed them incorrectly, one of may such “mistakes”. Below is page 2571, hand numbered, showing the calls for the midnight hour of June 18 with who they assign the numbers too. These four calls are one place it looks to me like she is trying to find someone. I won't go into all of why here because I've already stated my thoughts in the June 17-20 thread, IIRC. The calls where there is a discrepancy are the ones given to Broadway Ristorante, following the two calls to two different Papa John's. Not only is this not who she tried to call, the numbers don't even match the actual cell records. How they could make this kind of a mistake, is beyond me, even with Mercury Rx. They are either completely irresponsible, never rechecking their work or they didn't want the numbers to be shown here because it didn't fit with their path. Also below is an image of the actual numbers called from the cell records. I hope the image quality comes through clear enough on both so you can see the numbers to compare.

The actual numbers she tried to call after Papa Johns are two different land lines, not business. The one with 447 exchange is through Florida Digital Network, Orlando, first name Lashida (known thanks to Ibeyounger). The 478 exchange is also a landline through Flkorida Digital Network but in Winter Park. She also called a number ending 9999 on 6/29. This one is a Cingular Cell in Kissimee and apparently has two past addresses connected to it in Lake Worth.

There is also a mysterious number similar to these, ending 9899 instead of 9999 that she called at 5:20 pm on 6/17, the same time of day she told LE she went to pick up Caylee and she was no where to be found, but the day after she finally settled on. Since it is the right time of day LE should have surely tracked this number down. Actually, every number she called should have been thoroughly investigated. All of these very similar numbers lead me to believe she was trying to find someone, trying different exchanges. It would be a number either on the black jack or held in her memory rather than on her phone. If she had a job that wasn't above board she wouldn't keep the names and numbers on her phone, most likely, because her parents might see."


You really have no way of knowing whether they have tracked down all the numbers. You and others have frequently complained that many posters are convicting
Casey before all the evidence is in, yet you continue to accuse police of incompetence or malicious manipulation of the evidence BEFORE all of their investigation has been released.


originally posted by AquarianEssence"I don't believe we can give Casey credit for stealing 45,000. If, in fact, this huge unexpected debt happened, it was more likely due to the other rumor being true, a scam that George was involved in. I don't believe there is any way that Cindy would allow that kind of amount to build up without putting a stop to it long before it reached that amount. She didn't have enough income to close her eyes to it. If the stain was tested, they never revealed the results. One statement said it was there when Lee had the car. Who of us doesn't have a stain?"

Clearly, Cindy did let it go until it reached that amount. As Cindy's mother and KC's grandmother SP is in a very good position to have the facts.

Can't really take the stain out of context of the smell, the hair, the dogs, the dead child. Once again, we don't have the results. That statement you were referring to was made by Cindy I believe--what more do I need to say about that.


Originally posted by AquarianEssence "I have already addressed one place where she seems to be searching for someone. There are others. Since Arpad Vass said in the preliminary report that there was also decomposing pizza in the trunk that may have contributed to the odor, then later retracted that in the 2nd preliminary report, this whole thing is highly suspect. Notice he starts his findings with stating that Melich sent him the carpet sample, “in reference to reseach”, they had been performing. Clearly this isn't yet proven science, tested and vetted. The chart on pg. 2515 says, Yes, chloroform was found and that it was “unusually high”. But it is incorrect that he said it could not have come from an incidental source. In fact he ends the report by saying the source may not have been in the trunk at the time. We know the garbage had been removed. The control carpet sample also had some chloroform. The studies that were done to determine the information they base these tests on was done primarily with animal bones, rather than flesh so that right there makes this questionable science. Also, while chloroform is not a common ingredient in cleaning products, as he states, that doesn't mean that there are no sources available. Also notice his bolded words on pg. 2527 that say it “...could be of human origin"

Once again PRELIMINARY REPORT. We haven't seen any final reports. You are pre-judging.
As for the animal bones--you have cited a study done on dead pigs several times in other threads to support YOUR arguments. I even called you on it once!

It is common practice in scientific tests to give the results in non-absolute terms.


In reply to all those people smelling “death” in the trunk, that won't hold water either. Neither George, Tony or the lady at the Amscott that got close to the car smelled anything. The scent doesn't grow it dissipates. The smell was very strong 2 weeks later when the car was picked up. That only leaves the garbage in the trunk to account for the smell. It couldn't suddenly show up a month after Caylee went missing. That is easy for the defense to destroy. I'm really surprised anyone is running with it after also reading the statement from Amscott. That smell wasn't there on the 28th or several days before when Tony and George stood at the corner of her trunk.

There was a man at the tow yard who said he smelled the horrific smell when he got near the car. It is wrong to say that the scent dissipates. The odor is due to the growth of bacteria. Therefore as the bacteria grows the odor will grow stonger. Eventually the bacteria will cease to thrive an THEN the smell may begin to dissipate--although when the defense went to do tests on the car, it was reported it STILL smelled. If Caylee was bagged and the liquid contents leaked out when KC picked up the bag to dispose of Caylee thus creating the stain, bacteria would start to grow on the carpet stain. There would be an interval without great odor. The moist stain and hot environment of the car trunk would be very conducive to the growth and therefore increasing smell. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, did it make a noise? If the tow guy (who said he had a cold) didn't smell anything, does that mean there was no smell?

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: you are goooood!

 

[MissJames]

If anyone has any scientific data, articles etc that dispute anything I'm saying, I would appreciate authoritative information. What I state is from what I read on these subjects and from the actual discovery documents. I have given numerous links to these articles, thesis, etc. Yes, I have said I wonder if the possiblity of any pork in the garbage may produce the same chemicals. I say this with good reason. Pigs are very near human in many ways. I didn't say they were exactly the same, I simply said I would like to know all of the chemicals emitted with pig decomposition and compare to all of the chemicals with human. Pigs are so near human they can use their veins or arteries for transplant. I'm sure this is why they are considered unclean by ancient Jewish law. They may have sensed it is almost like cannabilism, LOL.

I would also be very interested to read something authoritative that says that once the source of the bacteria producing object is gone the smell continues to strengthen. The canvas bag was lined with vinyl so a tear in the bag wouldn't leak easily onto the trunk carpet. Besides, they surely would have handed over that test result by now since they finished all the other tests back in August. That's the bombshell that never had a bomb inside to start with. The man at the tow yard said he didn't smell anything when he picked the car up but had a cold. He smelled it when standing with George a month after Caylee went missing. The woman at the Amscott mentioned having no cold at all or a problem with her sense of smell. I doubt Tony has a problem there either.

there was no dead pig,there was a dead child.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

As I said, if there is any authoritative source that eliminates any thing I have said, I am very willing to reconsider. I haven't come to any firm conclusions and couldn't without all of the facts. If they did check out this list of numbers they are withholding that information. But, since the discovery laws or rules state everything has to be turned over "promptly" this phone number verification would have needed to be done and turned over long ago, at least by the time they charged her with murder 1. Promptly doesn't mean 6 months or a year later. An FBI lab technician isn't require to check phone IDs. With the clothing obviously not on the body I would at least have expected them to make note of it. But, no mention. I have heard from more than one forensic scientist, one an anthropoligist that she was likely put there without her clothes on. My goal is not to criticize LE, but to point out discrepancies and questions it seems logical to have answered when lives are at stake.

PS: The thesis I've referred to involving pigs was a study to observe animal activity on carcasses the size of small children because that is the most common age of murdered children. This study and the author's observations is what led me to the conclusion that she died naked, or the person removed her clothing after, most likely the former.

 

[songline]

If Caylee had been taken by some stranger, KC gave no indication of it. Her only concerns were how many people she could draw over to Fusion. This is not the action of a mother who's daughter has been kidnapped. When tied to the evidence found with the body, the blanket taken from KC's house, the trash bags, the duct tape, the stickies taken from the very sheet of stickies found in kc's home. It eliminates the stranger entering the house, sod. And her friends, parents all have been accounted for.

There just isn't any evidence, no matter how small, pointing away from KC and toward any other person. It would seem to make an sod defense impossible. Now, if kc or Jb are insisting on an sod defense, that would explain the presence of AL. She isn't great at getting people off, but is very good at keeping them off death row. This to me screams, jb doesn't think he can win this case and is looking to limit the damage.

To make matters worse, kc's parents are not visiting. This does not look good, no matter the paper thin excuse, it just flat makes it look like they think she is guilty.

true, and with her coming home when GA went to work she could have come home with any number of perps. the blanket and other items do not stomp me at all.
She "B" better talk and say who had Caylee or she has to go down.

 

[Devon]

I have heard from more than one forensic scientist, one an anthropoligist that she was likely put there without her clothes on.

I'd be very interested in the reasoning behind those opinions? Have you posted about this subject in this or any other thread and if so could you give me some directions? Are these opinions given in material or a format already available to the public or is it from conversations you personally have had with these experts, and if so, are you able to divulge any of their comments/reasoning?

TIA

 

[countzero]

I'd be very interested in the reasoning behind those opinions? Have you posted about this subject in this or any other thread and if so could you give me some directions? Are these opinions given in material or a format already available to the public or is it from conversations you personally have had with these experts, and if so, are you able to divulge any of their comments/reasoning?

TIA

+ 1, me too

 

[Seebra]

Here is why a Sex Offender does not fly with me in this case, either through KC handing her baby over, or one getting the little girl without KC"s knowledge. Please feel free to challenge these points, as I am quite interested why this would ever be a viable defense:

1. KC's fear of sitting at the window with Annie, callling 911 for the protestors, etc. If Caylee was kidnapped without KC's knowledge, KC's self-preservation would kick in and she would TELL someone, if for no other reason than to protect herself from this person coming back. How did she know that he wouldn't come back for her?

2. How did KC know that the SO would KILL her daughter or not kill her daughter? There was no guarantee that her daughter would not survive the abduction - therefore, she would not be "free" once her daughter returned, perhaps less than perfect, perhaps scarred for life.

3. KC and the gas can, IE trying to retrieve her car from Amscott. If this IS true, and KC's intentions were to go fill the car and remove it from Amscott, this DOES NOT make her innocent. It may mean that she accidentally ran out of gas driving around trying to look for a suitable place to dump her daughter's body and because of that ended up running out of gas - the car being at the Amscott, and NOT being towed immediately messed up her plans somewhat. She realized it may sit there and she would be busted - so she made plans to retrieve it - but ALAS - finally it was towed - another problem solved.

4. The tampered gas indicator - there wasn't anything wrong with it. The police verified this in a report. KC was LYING about there beng a problem because she needed a reason (other than no money) that she kept running out of gas.

5. Partying in the Open - if SO was involved, KC would not show NO FEAR, NO ANXIETY and PARTY like it was 1999. If for no other reason than #1 mentioned above, self-preservation.

6. KC's own STORIES (read STORIES, multiple) about ZFG, waiting for her at the apartment, when she was clearly at Blockbuster during this time (proven with images), looking for her at various places (Target surveillance shows KC SHOPPING, not SEARCHING), JCPEnney (why JCPENNEY in the script - because KC had a credit card for there, that's why!!!)

7. The lie about talking to baby Caylee on July 15th at noon. We know this did not happen. We know this is a lie. We know baby Caylee was ALREADY dead at this point - but how could KC know that if there was someone else involved????????? KC knew that she did not talk with her child that day - but how could she know that the SO wouldn't drop the baby off somewhere, or that the baby was not ALREADY dropped off somewhere and thus would never have called her - SHE TOLD THIS LIE to not only stall for time, but to detract from the real timeline of events.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

I'd be very interested in the reasoning behind those opinions? Have you posted about this subject in this or any other thread and if so could you give me some directions? Are these opinions given in material or a format already available to the public or is it from conversations you personally have had with these experts, and if so, are you able to divulge any of their comments/reasoning?

TIA

If you do a search of all my posts you'll find my reasoning that has been shared to date. Several days ago I received persmission from Ms. Enwere, an anthropologist and author of the one study, to share her email response to me so here is our exchange:

Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:22:16 PM
Subject: Question regarding scavengers and remains
Dear Ms. Enwere,

I read, with fascination your thesis entitled, "Taphonomy of Child-sized Remains in Shallow Grave and Surface Deposit Scenarios". After reading this I thought you may be the perfect person to answer a question I have. I have been reading the police reports regarding the skeletal dispersion of the remains of Caylee Anthony, nearly 3 years old, found last December 11, in Orlando, Florida. She was possibly there during the time of Hurricane Faye in late August. She was placed on slightly sloping ground, on the high side of where the other bones were scattered to. Her skull was right next to the bags along with the arm bones, the neck ribbing and appliqued lettering from a top, toddler pull up diaper and shorts lying nearby. It appears the pullup wasn't all in one piece but the shorts were, even still having the button in place. The area is very dense with plant life. About 6" downhill, 6' away were her femurs and ilium. There was no trauma to the bones noted. The bags were still tied closed but there was a hole toward the bottom side.

My question is, if an animal is responsible for moving the largest and heaviest bones in the body, away from the resting place, would the clothing be torn off and then the bones drug away or is it more likely the child didn't have clothing on when she was placed there. Would scavengers be more likely to tear up the shirt to get at the body than the shorts? It makes no sense to me that the largest bones floated away during the flooding, leaving many of the smaller bones in the original location, and the skull even sitting upright on the ground, so I assume an animal, perhaps a fox must have moved some of them. It also doesn't seem likely that the clothing would be on the body, the shirt torn up, body of it missing and the shorts untorn.

I hope you don't mind me asking this question and thank you for your time.

Kind Regards,
Connie

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:37:00 AM
Subject: RE: Question regarding scavengers and remains

I apologize for taking so long to respond. I've been very busy with work and was out of town, also. I'm not too familiar with the Caylee Anthony case and I am not familiar with the type of scavengers that inhabit the area where she was found. In my research, I noticed that the blankets on the pigs were not torn off or damaged, but it appeared that during decomposition and bloating, the blankets unraveled. This led to the remains being more accessible for the vultures and whatever other scavengers were involved. I was not able to videotape my experiment, so I am not sure what role foxes or raccoons may have played in the displacement of the remains. I did notice that vertebrae and ribs for the most part remained in the grave, while the larger bones were displaced further away. My only guess is that feeding took place on the meatiest parts of the body (abdomen and chest) in situ, leaving the majority of the ribs and vertebrae in the grave. As far as why the skulls and extremities were dragged to other locations--I could only guess that was due to possibly "leftover" scavenging. These skeletal elements would have easily been disarticulated from the body during the primary feeding.

I too question whether Caylee had on clothes in the first place, because what I noticed in my experiment was that the vultures were not that aggressive to remove the blanket. It was only when a good amount of the body was exposed did they start feeding.

I don't know if I've answered your questions or given you more questions to ask, but I hope I helped in some way!

Paulyann

There is also some support for my thoughts here David S is a lab technician, from the UK, I believe and Anthrogirl is an antrhropoligist. I'm not sure about the others that participated.

Vultures are usually the first in after the blowflies, I believe.