The Use of the Shovel

[Intermezzo]

If the baby couldn't suck in water, then it wouldn't be a drowning.

good point

 

[Kentjbkent]

I used to have an above ground pool years ago. As part of the maintenance you had to shock the pool with high levels of chorine. I wouldn't allow my children in it until the levels went down to a safe level. Do you think it is possible that is what caused the high levels of choroform in her trunk? As far as the duct tape and heart sticker, maybe she drowned and she wanted to pass this off as a kidnapping and couldn't face her parents with being neglectful.

I do know that she doesn't want to look her parents in the eyes, especially her mother. I am just throwing this out there. I really don't know and can't figure this out. I think that LE has.

Interesting...and since we had shock in the garage, I read the label, googled and found this....

Calcium hypochlorite (known as 'bleaching powder') is also used for bleaching cotton and linen and is used in the manufacture of chloroform.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...lorite"+++chloroform&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[AZlawyer]

When someone says "Imagine that " it is almost like saying that is what did happen "imagine that". No?

Well, what she actually said was "surprise surprise" (sarcastically).

Cindy: They're saying she drowned in the pool.
Casey: Surprise surprise.

PR's point about the "depression" perhaps being from a cinder block (or 3 on top of each other) being placed on the ground is interesting. PR, how do we know the depression was square?

 

[KenoshaKid]

I think KC initially just had her in the garbage bags, and they started to leak or tear and she realized she needed something sturdier. She decided upon the nice lined laundry bag but couldn't stomach touching the smelly leaking garbage bags, so she used the shovel to get her into the laundry bag. She hosed off the shovel in the yard (dogs hit on decomp) before she gave it back.

Thats my 2 cent theory. BTW, my hubby who has been a cop for 20+ years said, the first day the story broke "Oh boy, she killed her kid". Five minutes on the news and no evidence yet. Just based on all the lies and his cop intuition. I have to say, I thought the same thing when I heard 31 days and not reporting her missing. I mean, who does that??? God bless you, sweet Caylee. WE all love you!!

 

[suspicious1]

BBM
Good grief Casey, Well of course we, the public, can imagine that. It would be one of the first things many people would think of, and, I suspect the A's did as well for a brief time.
The A's have a pool, they also had a toddler in the home...accidental pool drownings of children 1-4yr is a very real occurrence in Florida.

I also suspect that for brief moment the A's did think that Caylee drowned and KC panicked. But I would think that if it was a real occurrence in Florida, then KC would have nothing to worry about. That would make for a perfect excuse. I can see her saying "it's not my fault she drowned, you (CA) left the pool ladder out!" If it was just a pool drowning why go to the lengths of hiding it, duct taping her, and throwing her away like trash? IMO, this was not a pool drowning at all.

 

[snow_walker]

I would like to believe it was an accidently drowning. But nothing that happened subesequently would lead me to that conclusion..many things shout out against it..

duct tape.. 3 pieces..wrapped around right over her hair!
her (KC's) lack of remorse.. no one told, not even her closest friends or family...her not confessing it to LE even when offerred an understanding ear...and finally the garbage bagging and tossing her in a swamp....no .. this was no accidental drowning.

 

[100%Agave]

I have been following this thread and just wanted to add my 2 cents.

The whole shovel to get the ladder out of the pool thing is just weird. It doesn't make any sense to me at all and leaves me with more questions than answers.

How would the ladder have gotten in the pool to begin with? I have never heard of those ladders falling in the pool.

Why would you borrow a shovel to fish it out?

Wouldn't you just use a broom handle or better yet one of the pool tools to accomplish the same thing?

Wouldn't you be afraid that a shovel would cut the vinyl liner?

Too many questions without simple answers that make sense. So much for getting any useful information out of KC. IMO, all they got were more crazy lies.

 

[naturaleza]

If the baby couldn't suck in water, then it wouldn't be a drowning.

But perhaps it would've been easier to dump her in the pool for her to die and not deal with the kickings and struggling on dry land. Made me sick to just write this, sorry.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I don't believe for a minute that this was an accidental drowning. At the beginning, had she said it was and she was scared of what would happen to her and her parents reactions, I might be able to forgive her a little... but, even with the 31 days, she would have to be charged with negligent homicide and served time.

The real kicker is, if Casey did in fact, admit to it being an accident, she would have had to take detectives to Caylee's body and there is no way she would do that because she knew she duct taped Caylee's mouth (and most likely nose) and there may be enough evidence left of the remains to prove her little accident wrong.

She murdered Caylee. There is nothing that has come out so far in evidence that points to any kind of accident and she will eventually have to pay the price for her crime. I could care less if it is Life or Death... either one would satisfy me. Just throw away the key.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Well, what she actually said was "surprise surprise" (sarcastically).

Cindy: They're saying she drowned in the pool.
Casey: Surprise surprise.

PR's point about the "depression" perhaps being from a cinder block (or 3 on top of each other) being placed on the ground is interesting. PR, how do we know the depression was square?

I elaborated upon what another poster had posted. If what you say if true, it's worse.

A normal person would rebuttle and say "They are saying that? No, I swear Mom nothing like that happened." I'm telling you Mom (or whoever) someone took Caylee." I'm saying that there has never been elaborative explanations or protests from any of them that make any sense, just that KC didn't/wouldn't do that. What? They expect us to say "if you say so". Doesn't work that way.

We play the telephone game here. "Imagine that" and "surprise, surprise" are different but neither are appropriate responses imo.

Where is the quote from? Is there a link?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I also suspect that for brief moment the A's did think that Caylee drowned and KC panicked. But I would think that if it was a real occurrence in Florida, then KC would have nothing to worry about. That would make for a perfect excuse. I can see her saying "it's not my fault she drowned, you (CA) left the pool ladder out!" If it was just a pool drowning why go to the lengths of hiding it, duct taping her, and throwing her away like trash? IMO, this was not a pool drowning at all.

Because KC didn't feel like it - she had a date with Tony. It would have been inconvenient to deal with reporting the incident to the blankity blank cops - besides, she's above the law and need not follow procedures.

That would have been too easy would be my guess. Again, my comments are all explorative in nature. I'm not saying I know this to be true.

Oh and also, KC would then have had to tell CA. That is, if CA wasn't involved since day one.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't believe for a minute that this was an accidental drowning. At the beginning, had she said it was and she was scared of what would happen to her and her parents reactions, I might be able to forgive her a little... but, even with the 31 days, she would have to be charged with negligent homicide and served time.

The real kicker is, if Casey did in fact, admit to it being an accident, she would have had to take detectives to Caylee's body and there is no way she would do that because she knew she duct taped Caylee's mouth (and most likely nose) and there may be enough evidence left of the remains to prove her little accident wrong.

She murdered Caylee. There is nothing that has come out so far in evidence that points to any kind of accident and she will eventually have to pay the price for her crime. I could care less if it is Life or Death... either one would satisfy me. Just throw away the key.

Remember she said to her parents when they visited the jail something like "Don't worry I didn't say anything." What was that about? You see there are too many little hints/confusion between her and her parents and Lee. Any weird thing is possible with these people that would be totally alien behavior to most of us. I lump the rest of the family in with KC now based on the way they have behaved too.

 

[debbie0604]

I think she was going to use the shovel to bury Caylee, but not necessarily in her back yard. Too many bamboo shoots back there. I think she killed Caylee because she was jealous of the attention she was getting too. She knew that Caylee would always get more attention than her as well. She figured she would get a shovel and then take poor Caylee's body somewhere and bury her, but I guess she at the time didn't think too far ahead as to where yet and that's why she drove around with her poor body in the trunk for awhile. That's why the shovel had no forensic evidence - she didn't use it to bury her. I think she decided later on a random moment while driving around that she would dispose of her at the spot where she "used to hang out" - after the body started decomposing very badly. JMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think she was going to use the shovel to bury Caylee, but not necessarily in her back yard. Too many bamboo shoots back there. I think she killed Caylee because she was jealous of the attention she was getting too. She knew that Caylee would always get more attention than her as well. She figured she would get a shovel and then take poor Caylee's body somewhere and bury her, but I guess she at the time didn't think too far ahead as to where yet and that's why she drove around with her poor body in the trunk for awhile. That's why the shovel had no forensic evidence - she didn't use it to bury her. I think she decided later on a random moment while driving around that she would dispose of her at the spot where she "used to hang out" - after the body started decomposing very badly. JMO

Could be. But we're examining based on what Tracy testified to the FBI that KC exclaimed while standing in her kitchen to CA that she used the shovel to get the ladder out of the pool. CA corrected her and said you mean to dig the bamboo. GA came around with (I can picture it) the look. Tracy was sitting right there playing with her phone.

What is the truth? Who knows! The whole thing is strange though and it was brand new information for our ears.

At the very least, it shows that the A's collaborated on a story. They wrote a script together - why?

 

[jandkmom]

My theory on the pool would be that Caylee was calling for her mommy while KC was inside on the phone or computer or something. KC didn't stop to see why Caylee was calling her probably thinking she was playing in her playhouse or something knowing that the pool ladder was usually out of the pool. When she finally went to see about Caylee, she saw that she was already dead. Maybe KC blames her mom for leaving the ladder in from the day before. Remember Cindy had said that they had gone swimming after getting back on Father's Day. KC then tried to get rid of the Caylee's body in a panic. I think she put the tape on her mouth because she kept hearing Caylee scream her name and she didn't go see what she was screaming about. KC blames her mom for all of this because if her mom wasn't fighting with her the day before then she would have remembered the ladder.

 

[Balthazar]

Well, what she actually said was "surprise surprise" (sarcastically).

Cindy: They're saying she drowned in the pool.
Casey: Surprise surprise.

PR's point about the "depression" perhaps being from a cinder block (or 3 on top of each other) being placed on the ground is interesting. PR, how do we know the depression was square?

I saw a photo of it - I think it was a still from the Greta Van Susteran show where they all walked around the back yard of the Anthony house. The depression was not very deep - I would describe it as cigar box deep at most.

 

[suspicious1]

Over the holiday weekend my family had given a pool party for the kids. There was one little boy there that had just turned 3 yo that was very good at swimming. When I talk to his mother about it, she said he had taken swimming for quite some time. They did this little trick where she threw him in the pool and he came up from under water and swam to the edge of the pool. Amazing! I thought it was so amazing to see this little boy swimming without floats, he could almost swim as good as me! lol

My question is this: Do we know if Caylee had any swimming lessons? Or did GA or CA teach her to swim? It seems that they went swimming quite often. Did Caylee need floats?

I am asking this because if Caylee knew how to swim or did not need floats while in the water, how could she drown unless someone was holding her under water? I am just curious.

 

[LambChop]

Caylee had duct tape that covered her mouth and nose and was placed there pre-decomp. Then a heart shaped sticker was placed onto the duct tape. Certainly not something you would do to a child who accidently drowned. Then KC joined TL for a trip to Blockbuster. Does not sound like an accident to me.....more like a cold blooded killing. Even dogs mourn the death of a loved one. KC has spent this year pointing the finger at all her friends. I bet she even blames AH for leaving that checkbook in her car.

I'm willing to bet SA knows exactly what happened.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Over the holiday weekend my family had given a pool party for the kids. There was one little boy there that had just turned 3 yo that was very good at swimming. When I talk to his mother about it, she said he had taken swimming for quite some time. They did this little trick where she threw him in the pool and he came up from under water and swam to the edge of the pool. Amazing! I thought it was so amazing to see this little boy swimming without floats, he could almost swim as good as me! lol

My question is this: Do we know if Caylee had any swimming lessons? Or did GA or CA teach her to swim? It seems that they went swimming quite often. Did Caylee need floats?

I am asking this because if Caylee knew how to swim or did not need floats while in the water, how could she drown unless someone was holding her under water? I am just curious.

I've seen where they have lessons for little babies but that's more getting the babies used to the water, not being afraid of it and for Mommy and Me time, etc.

My boy started with YMCA swimming lessons at four years old. Caylee was not even three yet and based on what I've seen with them, I doubt she had any organized lessons. Even if she had it would not be reasurrance of her safety especially if she had gotten behind the ladder and became stuck.

It's always good that a child learn to swim. It's a good skill to have but I would never trust a small child in and around the water until they were way beyond kindergarten - maybe eight or nine, even then I'd be watching. They are rough with each other too!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Caylee had duct tape that covered her mouth and nose and was placed there pre-decomp. Then a heart shaped sticker was placed onto the duct tape. Certainly not something you would do to a child who accidently drowned. Then KC joined TL for a trip to Blockbuster. Does not sound like an accident to me.....more like a cold blooded killing. Even dogs mourn the death of a loved one. KC has spent this year pointing the finger at all her friends. I bet she even blames AH for leaving that checkbook in her car.

I'm willing to bet SA knows exactly what happened.

If there is any chance it started out an accident, it has been so poorly handled that it no longer fits into that category.

We are examining the reason why KC would behave the way she may have - may be she was happy it happened, or afraid to reveal it to her Mom, or didn't want to bother saving Caylee, or complicated things by not responding immediately and then complicated them some more.

I can picture her doing the motions (duct tape, heart, etc.) ceremoniously after the fact. She seems that void of reality to me.

Tracy said that KC said she used the shovel to take the ladder out from the pool.

CA said the shovel was used to clean up bamboo. Does KC seem like she would drive to Hopespring for no other reason than to clean up bamboo? That is lamer than the ladder story. Plus CA said that because they knew Caylee would trip on it - it was a safety measure. This is such a load of crap as we all know now that Caylee was dead by the 16th. The shovel thing was on the 18th of June.

Let's at least try to base our "opinions" on some concrete information.

I keep saying over and over that I don't really know what the truth is - I wish everyone who does would show me the evidence so I can be a firm believer in EXACTLY what went down too.