The Use of the Shovel

[Forensic fan]

Wasn't there a report early on in the investigation that someone had tried to dig a hole near the house, opposite the pool but hit part of the foundation and GA claimed he was moving some bushes? Maybe KC had tried to dig a hole by the house and hit the concrete and gave up on trying to bury Caylee in the backyard. She may have washed the shovel off in the pool. If she were removing bamboo wouldn't the shovel have had some dirt on it. I could see wiping the shovel off but washing it totally clean does not sound like something KC would bother with.

And remember when her parents visited her in jail and told her that the media were saying that she drowned in the pool? She replied "Imagine that". Right then I got the impression that that is really what happened and they all knew it. I do think she may have tried to bury her near the house, it probably looked easy to dig in that area.

 

[Intermezzo]

Why do you think KC would point to the pool though? I mean would she want to elude to a drowning or point to the pool? Afterall this was several days after Father's Day that she backed into the driveway and borrowed the shovel. I don't get why she would vere from CA's excuse and make up her own with Tracy sitting right there in the room. Ideas?

Hi Woe

:waitasec: She forgot to follow Cindy's scripted version :slap: LP and the team all said she talks and talks and talks...maybe her mouth was going faster that her brain. :doh:

It's possible Casey may have ,at one point, wanted to elude to the pool and a possible drowning since drownings are the leading cause of death for young children in Florida.

http://www.hannonboyers.com/lawyer-attorney-1294870.html
"Unintentional drowning is the leading cause of death of children between the ages of 1 – 4 in Florida every year according to the Florida Department of Health. Children lose consciousness after approximately two minutes under water and brain injury occurs"

The story that I give credence to is the one where CA found the ladder up against the pool and got upset at GA for leaving it there, which I don't think he did..those 2 IMO were very faithful in removing the ladder from the pool..so Who put the ladder back up against the pool? And Why?

Oh good grief...I've left off with more questions on this topic

 

[Intermezzo]

And remember when her parents visited her in jail and told her that the media were saying that she drowned in the pool? She replied "Imagine that". Right then I got the impression that that is really what happened and they all knew it. I do think she may have tried to bury her near the house, it probably looked easy to dig in that area.

BBM
Good grief Casey, Well of course we, the public, can imagine that. It would be one of the first things many people would think of, and, I suspect the A's did as well for a brief time.
The A's have a pool, they also had a toddler in the home...accidental pool drownings of children 1-4yr is a very real occurrence in Florida.

 

[magic-cat]

I just cannot bring this to a resolution in my mind as what happened to Caylee. For one thing if your baby drowns you do not duct tape their whole face up (THREE layers of duct tape covering all of her breathing holes) and wrap them in garbage bags and throw them in your trunk...There is something far more diabolical than a unattendant Casey allowed Caylee to drown. The heart sticker over the duct tape, the double bagging, the disposal site it all does not add up to a drowing!

 

[Balthazar]

Why do you think KC would point to the pool though? I mean would she want to elude to a drowning or point to the pool? Afterall this was several days after Father's Day that she backed into the driveway and borrowed the shovel. I don't get why she would vere from CA's excuse and make up her own with Tracy sitting right there in the room. Ideas?

Why did she say she felt Caylee was "close to home"?

I think this family has a pathology of teasing each other with words and it has been going on for many years. We know Casey dug something up by the pool that was square in shape - remember the "suspicious depression? " I don't know what she dug up, I've wondered if she had money or drugs or something there - maybe she was saving up to leave town - who knows. But that is what I believe the shovel was for - getting to whatever she had there. We also know some pavers appeared to be missing from in front of Caylee's playhouse and we see the video of Dominic Casey looking for 3 pavers or cinder blocks out in the vacant lot off of Suburban. It might take a shovel to get these items up. Maybe the thing by the pool was just another paver or cinder block. Maybe Cindy knew exactly what it was that Casey took from there...

 

[Intermezzo]

I just cannot bring this to a resolution in my mind as what happened to Caylee. For one thing if your baby drowns you do not duct tape their whole face up (THREE layers of duct tape covering all of her breathing holes) and wrap them in garbage bags and throw them in your trunk...There is something far more diabolical than a unattendant Casey allowed Caylee to drown. The heart sticker over the duct tape, the double bagging, the disposal site it all does not add up to a drowing!

BBM
This is difficult to post :yow: but here it goes

IF there was a drowning, maybe the duct tape was in place before being placed in the pool.

Back on topic
She borrowed the shovel for something. What it is, other than to dig I don't know.
IIRC According to BB she did not look like she had worked in the yard, and the shovel was clean was it not?...but that's easy to accomplish..dip it in the pool to clean or rinse it with a hose.

 

[Forensic fan]

Hi Woe

:waitasec: She forgot to follow Cindy's scripted version :slap: LP and the team all said she talks and talks and talks...maybe her mouth was going faster that her brain. :doh:

It's possible Casey may have ,at one point, wanted to elude to the pool and a possible drowning since drownings are the leading cause of death for young children in Florida.

http://www.hannonboyers.com/lawyer-attorney-1294870.html
"Unintentional drowning is the leading cause of death of children between the ages of 1 – 4 in Florida every year according to the Florida Department of Health. Children lose consciousness after approximately two minutes under water and brain injury occurs"
The story that I give credence to is the one where CA found the ladder up against the pool and got upset at GA for leaving it there, which I don't think he did..those 2 IMO were very faithful in removing the ladder from the pool..so Who put the ladder back up against the pool? And Why?

Oh good grief...I've left off with more questions on this topic

The part bolded by me just hit me, maybe she got her out of the pool, revived her, but she could tell she had brain damage so she (or someone) killed her so she wouldn't have to live with brain damage. Is that too far-fetched?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Aw, W.B.G.! You are trying to make since out of something that the A's said! Can't be done! Lol! :crazy:

I know - crazy :crazy: huh?

I'm trying to weigh-in on my dreams and my visions! :crazy::crazy::crazy:

:blowkiss:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM
Good grief Casey, Well of course we, the public, can imagine that. It would be one of the first things many people would think of, and, I suspect the A's did as well for a brief time.
The A's have a pool, they also had a toddler in the home...accidental pool drownings of children 1-4yr is a very real occurrence in Florida.

Yes, and we have been examining on countless threads the bazarro behavior of both CA and GA, especially CA in defending KC.

Many of us have concluded that CA's pride and her story of reality (which is where KC has learned it) is paramount and to be obeyed (The Bible). No one is allowed to write their own script; one must go by CA's. KC probably loves getting a rise out of dear ol mum when she says something contrair'.

Of course I have no idea if the above is true but it "feels" right to me as their is some other force behind why the family is acting the way they do versus KC being diabolical in and of herself. imo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I just cannot bring this to a resolution in my mind as what happened to Caylee. For one thing if your baby drowns you do not duct tape their whole face up (THREE layers of duct tape covering all of her breathing holes) and wrap them in garbage bags and throw them in your trunk...There is something far more diabolical than a unattendant Casey allowed Caylee to drown. The heart sticker over the duct tape, the double bagging, the disposal site it all does not add up to a drowing!

If you're hiding your mistake from your perfect Mother you may. Even though CA denies it; we've gotten to know her.

Picture KC saying - oh so sorry this has happened to you - let me say goodbye and give you your last kiss and put you in your resting place - (when I figure out where that is going to be - I guess I'll just have to dump you down the block cuz it's too damn hard to dig a hole here - least I tried). Goodbye my love, don't let the bedbugs bite.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Why did she say she felt Caylee was "close to home"?

I think this family has a pathology of teasing each other with words and it has been going on for many years. We know Casey dug something up by the pool that was square in shape - remember the "suspicious depression? " I don't know what she dug up, I've wondered if she had money or drugs or something there - maybe she was saving up to leave town - who knows. But that is what I believe the shovel was for - getting to whatever she had there. We also know some pavers appeared to be missing from in front of Caylee's playhouse and we see the video of Dominic Casey looking for 3 pavers or cinder blocks out in the vacant lot off of Suburban. It might take a shovel to get these items up. Maybe the thing by the pool was just another paver or cinder block. Maybe Cindy knew exactly what it was that Casey took from there...

Oh a thought - I'm having a thought! Could it be "her clothes"? Could KC have buried her clothes in the yard? Or dug them up a few days later?

This is why she would smuggly state to Rob "they haven't even found her clothes." Meaning that LE had the dogs back there and everything but they didn't find the clothes. Or if she dug them up and put them elsewhere she could have been referring to the elsewhere place which would be elsewhere. :waitasec:

 

[Balthazar]

The part bolded by me just hit me, maybe she got her out of the pool, revived her, but she could tell she had brain damage so she (or someone) killed her so she wouldn't have to live with brain damage. Is that too far-fetched?

It would be hard to tell immediately if there was brain damage. I rescued my neighbors 4 year old nephew who drowned a few years ago. My husband saw his mom crying hysterically on the phone out front and I ran out and asked what was wrong and she pointed to her son and said he drowned. His aunt doing mouth to mouth on him and it wasn't working - he was all blue and I had seen a show just a few days before this that said to do the Heimlich Maneuver on drowning victims - so I just went into automatic and grabbed him up and did it. He projectile vomited water and then he cried, and he almost instantly turned a normal shade of pink, but he wouldn't speak. His aunt took him to his mom. His mom was hysterical, the ambulance arrived just then and they took them to the hospital. Later his mom told me he wouldn't speak for hours and the doctors thought he might be brain damaged, but he did begin speaking again the next day. It's been 7 years since then and he's at the top of his class - a straight A student. He's not a big fan of swimming, however. But other than that, there have been no residual side effects.

I later learned my neighbor and her sister had been sitting by the pool with their 4 kids combined swimming and the little boy had just slipped under the water and was not noticed immediately. My neighbor dove in and fished him out and started mouth to mouth.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM
This is difficult to post :yow: but here it goes

IF there was a drowning, maybe the duct tape was in place before being placed in the pool.

Back on topic
She borrowed the shovel for something. What it is, other than to dig I don't know.
IIRC According to BB she did not look like she had worked in the yard, and the shovel was clean was it not?...but that's easy to accomplish..dip it in the pool to clean or rinse it with a hose.

Or maybe if the ladder had gotten dirty like with blood on it or something maybe KC threw it in the pool to clean it off and just left it there until retrieval day and that's when CA saw it up against the pool on the 18th. Because KC would have had to remove the ladder on the 16th to get Caylee out from behind it - she may have done that instinctively and just left it in the pool until the 18th.

CA may have NOT noticed the ladder IN the pool but DID notice the ladder BACK against the pool.

And why, by the way, did the A's have that pool trunk up against the pool? The A's say that they dug up the hibiscus plant to move the pool trunk to the corner by the house. Was this a day late and a dollar short? The pool safety rules clearly state to NOT have anything near the pool's edge, even the pump or filter system, that a small child could use to climb on to gain access into the pool.

I potentially see several problems with the way the pool had been arranged considering how active Caylee had become.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM
Good grief Casey, Well of course we, the public, can imagine that. It would be one of the first things many people would think of, and, I suspect the A's did as well for a brief time.
The A's have a pool, they also had a toddler in the home...accidental pool drownings of children 1-4yr is a very real occurrence in Florida.

When someone says "Imagine that " it is almost like saying that is what did happen "imagine that". No?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The part bolded by me just hit me, maybe she got her out of the pool, revived her, but she could tell she had brain damage so she (or someone) killed her so she wouldn't have to live with brain damage. Is that too far-fetched?

That would have been too hard. Then she thought Oh so sad.

It reminds me of the Vandersloot creep who didn't bother to make an effort to save the girl - if any of his story is true - just easier to get rid of his problem - :furious:

 

[Forensic fan]

When someone says "Imagine that " it is almost like saying that is what did happen "imagine that". No?

That is what I take it to mean.

 

[CBTampa]

I used to have an above ground pool years ago. As part of the maintenance you had to shock the pool with high levels of chorine. I wouldn't allow my children in it until the levels went down to a safe level. Do you think it is possible that is what caused the high levels of choroform in her trunk? As far as the duct tape and heart sticker, maybe she drowned and she wanted to pass this off as a kidnapping and couldn't face her parents with being neglectful.

I do know that she doesn't want to look her parents in the eyes, especially her mother. I am just throwing this out there. I really don't know and can't figure this out. I think that LE has.

 

[Spangle]

BBM
This is difficult to post :yow: but here it goes

IF there was a drowning, maybe the duct tape was in place before being placed in the pool.

Back on topic
She borrowed the shovel for something. What it is, other than to dig I don't know.
IIRC According to BB she did not look like she had worked in the yard, and the shovel was clean was it not?...but that's easy to accomplish..dip it in the pool to clean or rinse it with a hose.

If the baby couldn't suck in water, then it wouldn't be a drowning.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It would be hard to tell immediately if there was brain damage. I rescued my neighbors 4 year old nephew who drowned a few years ago. My husband saw his mom crying hysterically on the phone out front and I ran out and asked what was wrong and she pointed to her son and said he drowned. His aunt doing mouth to mouth on him and it wasn't working - he was all blue and I had seen a show just a few days before this that said to do the Heimlich Maneuver on drowning victims - so I just went into automatic and grabbed him up and did it. He projectile vomited water and then he cried, and he almost instantly turned a normal shade of pink, but he wouldn't speak. His aunt took him to his mom. His mom was hysterical, the ambulance arrived just then and they took them to the hospital. Later his mom told me he wouldn't speak for hours and the doctors thought he might be brain damaged, but he did begin speaking again the next day. It's been 7 years since then and he's at the top of his class - a straight A student. He's not a big fan of swimming, however. But other than that, there have been no residual side effects.

I later learned my neighbor and her sister had been sitting by the pool with their 4 kids combined swimming and the little boy had just slipped under the water and was not noticed immediately. My neighbor dove in and fished him out and started mouth to mouth.

Wow, that has got to make you feel awesome. Isn't that something that you had just had the instruction a few days prior?
Very heartwarming indeed. :blowkiss:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If the baby couldn't suck in water, then it wouldn't be a drowning.

good point. affixiation in the pool? too complicated? probably.