The Van

[elle1919]

Where did I say it was unimportant, Elle? I have not seen you add anything in this post which would clear up the fact that LE returned the van, Misty doesn't admit driving the van, Joe can't be placed in the van, and Chelsea doesn't know her bottom from a button.

If the van was returned by LE, that means there was no evidence in it which would suggest Haleigh was in that van other than at some point. There is no blood evidence which could be confirmed as coming from Haleigh, there is no decomp evidence which would be attributed to Haleigh. The van is in the possession of the Croslins, and therefore as evidence, it has an endpoint.

Well do you consider it worthwhile to discuss things that are unimportant?

I am not the person who needs to clear things up in this case. The person's who should be clearing things up is Law Enforcement officials. There reasons for not doing so are known only to them.

Am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying that because Law Enforcement returned the van we can conclude that there was no evidence in the van? Is there some precedence that you might be able to point me in the direction of? Unless you know what crime was committed and where, how in the world could you know what might possibly considered evidence?

 

[lil momma]

I know this is OT but maybe we could open a thread about all the vehicles, the Croslin's, the Cumming's, and the Sheffield's.

 

[debs]

yes. Casey Anthony's car was impounded and remains impounded to this day, 18 months after the death of her daughter.

ETA: Any evidence they think they may find in that van 10 months later will surely be considered contaminated. Irrelevant? No. But surely contaminated.

 

[elle1919]

yes. Casey Anthony's car was impounded and remains impounded to this day, 18 months after the death of her daughter.

ETA: Any evidence they think they may find in that van 10 months later will surely be considered contaminated. Irrelevant? No. But surely contaminated.

Do you know that the Anthony's have asked for the van to be returned to them and have been refused? Wouldn't they need to ask for the return of the property the same as they would their cell phone's and computers?
Caylee Anthony is dead, and was in the trunk of her mother's car. In my opinion we are discussing two very different scenario's.

Tried to google for some info and found this: http://www.wsvn.com/features/articles/helpmehoward/MI35595/

snip~ Howard Finkelstein: "The law says victims should get their property back promptly, unless their is a compelling law enforcement reason that would threaten the case. The law also allows for photographs to be taken of the property, and the photographs can be used at trial instead of the actual property so that victims can get their property back quickly and not have to suffer further."~ end

Not sure if Howard F is still a public defender in Broward County Florida but he was at one time. I am looking into some other things today and I apologize for taking so long to reply to you debs. I think the van is important and the fact that it was released back to the Croslin family doesn't make me believe Law Enforcement found no evidence in it.

 

[debs]

I also never said there was no evidence found. I said that whatever evidence they have, was not enough to impound the car indefinitely due to "a compelling law enforcement reason that would threaten the case" which has been now stated 3 times quite clearly.

 

[elle1919]

Nothing new to discuss in regards to the van.

I disagree because:

The van was being shared by numerous members of the Croslin family because Timmy and Chelsea's van that they had recently purchased was involved in a car accident.

I will post this interview here because I feel it gives us a very accurate view of why the van is important.

Link: http://www.artharris.com/2009/10/05/exclusive-inside-the-haleigh-cummings-family-feud/

snip~Two days before Haleigh turned up missing last February, a drunk driver with no insurance smashed into the used car Timmy and Chelsea had just bought days earlier. Hank, Sr., her father in law wound up in the hospital in Gainesville, Fla., she says, and didn’t come home until after Haleigh vanished, on crutches, pins in his leg and a lot of pain.

With her car totalled, Chelsea started driving the blue family van, which she initially reported appeared to be parked in a different spot than she usually left it the day Haleigh was reported missing. Cousin Joe Overstreet had spent the night, and Chelsea later told police she’d left the keys on the kitchen counter, where she usually does, within easy reach. Reflecting now, she says, “What I told police was that I can’t totally, 100 per cent account for Joe that night…

“I don’t see Joe doing something like this, but I just gave police my observations — that the van just seemed to be in a different spot. I have a long driveway, and the back steps are to the left. I usually turn the wheel so the car is behind the stairs. This time, I noticed it seemed to be parked more on the side of the house. I don’t know if Joe took it to the store, or maybe he didn’t take it at all.”~ end snip

This cousin and his whereabouts for the evening cannot be 100% verified by his Satsuma relatives. The fact that he left hours after Haleigh went missing stinks to high heaven.

Just for you debs I am bumping my post and I edited it as well, removing from my earlier post the statement that I assumed you were implying there was nothing important found in the van. What you stated was that there was nothing new to discuss in this thread since it was last posted on back in February. I disagree.

 

[debs]

And i'll reiterate that I haven't seen anything new to discuss regarding the van, being it was given back to the Croslins and we have no information to what evidence they could have gotten from the van other than that it was not used to transport a dead Haleigh, or surely they would have kept the van.

(wheeee...let's go 'round again!)

 

[doobiedoo52]

And i'll reiterate that I haven't seen anything new to discuss regarding the van, being it was given back to the Croslins and we have no information to what evidence they could have gotten from the van other than that it was not used to transport a dead Haleigh, or surely they would have kept the van.

(wheeee...let's go 'round again!)

I must say I agree that the van ITSELF is not of any interest to LE or they would have it impounded. If they found something--say that elusive blanket, then the blanket itself is the evidence and not the van, other than to say that's where they found it. Wouldn't it be nice to know if they have ANY evidence?

 

[Whisperer]

It would be of interest to be able to know the cars the players have. All I know is Sykes has three red cars, on brand new, one a red nissan pickup, and a sedan. Don't know what she traded in, if any, in Feb when she bought the new car.

RC now has three vehicles, at least. He had on old white pick-up that is broken down and looks like it is stored in Pomona Park. I thnk he bought the GMC one after Haleigh disappeard, but no verification....just looks like it. And he has the Altima maroon sedan.

I do not know what TN drives but I'm willing to bet it is new..

The van....nada...for us anyway. Was the blanket in it? I guess we will never know.

 

[Emeralgem]

It would be of interest to be able to know the cars the players have. All I know is Sykes has three red cars, on brand new, one a red nissan pickup, and a sedan. Don't know what she traded in, if any, in Feb when she bought the new car.

RC now has three vehicles, at least. He had on old white pick-up that is broken down and looks like it is stored in Pomona Park. I thnk he bought the GMC one after Haleigh disappeard, but no verification....just looks like it. And he has the Altima maroon sedan.

I do not know what TN drives but I'm willing to bet it is new..

The van....nada...for us anyway. Was the blanket in it? I guess we will never know.

ITA... We do know that there was deer blood in that van though, that is unless Misty lied...IMAGINE THAT..JMO

 

[Busylady]

Could you provide a link that shows GGMS owns three vehicles one of those just being purchased in Feb?

It would be of interest to be able to know the cars the players have. All I know is Sykes has three red cars, on brand new, one a red nissan pickup, and a sedan. Don't know what she traded in, if any, in Feb when she bought the new car.

RC now has three vehicles, at least. He had on old white pick-up that is broken down and looks like it is stored in Pomona Park. I thnk he bought the GMC one after Haleigh disappeard, but no verification....just looks like it. And he has the Altima maroon sedan.

I do not know what TN drives but I'm willing to bet it is new..

The van....nada...for us anyway. Was the blanket in it? I guess we will never know.

 

[OneLove]

The van....nada...for us anyway. Was the blanket in it? I guess we will never know.

Oh yes we WILL, Whisperer, have faith! We will see every detail some day in a court of law, just like we did with Scott Peterson's trial, and like we will soon enough with Jason Young's trial. That day WILL come, just a matter of time.

Btw, I wonder if the 'players' in this situation will deteriorate as badly as Jason Young has in the past 3 years. His crime must have eatten his body and soul, from the looks of it. Maybe living with himself was worse punishment than being arrested immediately. :boohoo:

 

[txsvicki]

The blanket in the van must have been recovered. I'd bet anything that it had been washed and that the window covering blanket had also been washed with Haleigh's blanket at someone else's home. Misty had no reason to make up stories about washing anything, but had to have some reason to account for the blankets being freshly washed. I'd like to know what the explanations were for the blanket being in the van and for the scratch that showed up on the vehicle.

 

[Whisperer]

Misty does get hung up on those blankets and Haleigh wetting hers. It is hard to imagine there weren't any other blankets in the place. I just heard TN say Haleigh had a laptop computer??? WTH? I hope she means a toy but I don't think she did. If a grandma bought her a laptop, they sure as heck would have bought them blankets.

I am of anything misty says but you do have a point with the blanket. misty does go on and on about it. My guess is Haleigh left wrapped in a blanket.

 

[elle1919]

woman to be inconsistent. Back in March, the 18th, Chelsea spoke about the "van" with MyFoxOrlando after the van was released back to them after being impounded for weeks.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/031809_haleigh_van_questions

snip~“We all started thinking about what could have happened that night…I realized the van was in a different spot.”

Croslin says the night Haleigh disappeared, a family member was staying with them. She says around 4am when Misty called them to tell them Haleigh was missing, they went outside to the van to drive to Haleigh’s home. Croslin says she immediately noticed the van was not in the same spot she left it. “I know I don’t park like that, and I was the last to drive the van.~ end

Then months later in October Art H conducted an "exclusive" interview with Chelsea C where her account of her actions and statements involving the van changed.

http://www.artharris.com/2009/10/05/exclusive-inside-the-haleigh-cummings-family-feud/

snip~They lay in bed for an hour or so, not sure what to make of it, not wanting to wake up her two girls, close to giving birth to a third. At about 6 a.m., “I woke up Timmy when we realized this was serious. I couldn’t imagine anything like this. I just figured she’s probably hiding in a closet. My kids hide from me all the time. Sometimes I’ll find them in a cabinet. To them, it’s a game.”

It was no game. Within hours, she’d raced back to Gainesville to pick up Misty’s mother and hightailed it back to the Sheriff’s Department, where she and Timmy joined the long line of family members for interviews, took polygraphs, and watched Ronald and Misty hand over the clothes they were wearing to police. “Ronald was wearing his company jumpsuit, like a blue work outfit that zipped up the front, and they both went in back and took off everything, including their underwear.” ~ end snip

So, did she speak with Misty and lay in bed until 6, then rush out and notice the van, go to Gainsville to pick up Mother Croslin, then race back to the police department to stand in line with the rest of the family members? OR

Wake at 4am and go out to the van to drive to Haleigh's home, not Gainsville and notice the van was moved? I am not sure what I believe. While we are looking discussing the van, lets not forget the scratch all along one side. Here is a video so you can see the scratch.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc61AO1APc4&feature=related

From the MyFoxOrlando article posted above Snip~ A scratch leading from just behind the driver’s side door handle to the back tire is very visible. Croslin says that scratch was not there the last time she drove it. “The scratch---it runs all the way down the van. That’s something someone would know if you’re riding against something and steadily scratching it.”
All police would say about the van being impounded is that it was taken to the FDLE’s crime lab in Jacksonville, analyzed, then released. They would not comment on any specifics of what was searched, or if anything was found in the van.~ end

Now ask yourself this question, in a home with children around for much of the time, I wonder why Chelsea felt that the scratch was made by someone riding alongside something and steadily scratching it? As opposed to a small child scratching it with a stick, or even a angry adult pulling out a car key?

No way, I consider this van highly suspect! And if we are being honest Misty Croslin has not been the only Croslin woman to be inconsistent or change their stories. Misty, Lisa, and Chelsea in my opinion like to change things up when the spotlight is on them. Lets not forget that Lyndsy Croslin reported that PC investigators traveled to Massachusetts to question Timmy and Chelsea Croslin, for how long? 14 hours(sorry, forgot to put the time in)It has been speculated that the total hours that Misty was interviewed collectively add up to 30 hours. I have serious doubts that the Croslins were even interviewed in the hours right after Haleigh went missing.

ETA, I do have Lyndsy Croslin on video stating the investigators were there for 14 hours.

 

[lil momma]

well, elle

i had a thought the other day that maybe the van was in fact parked at Ron's home when all the children were outside playing, and maybe one of the handle bars of one of the childrens bikes made the scratch...

i was very clumsy as a child and was always running into cars with my bike and scratching the paint down to the primer. just a thought, bouncing off of ya!

 

[Whisperer]

If these family members keep changing their stories, they are not to be believed.

 

[Whisperer]

Many of us took her at her word and tried many scenarios with that van. Now we don't even know if the real bed blanket was in it. One thing would be clear though, LE would know if JO used it. There would be traces of him in the car, nothing he could have done to avoid that.

Chelsea has sided with misty, physically, over the Amber's mother fight, I don't know what to think about her story. Where are all the men in this crime? Only the women talk in these families?

 

[Crosby87]

Is it possible Misty knew exactly when and how the van was damaged and her conversation with Chelsea on Tuesday is a ruse? It seems odd to me that Misty would call Chelsea on Tuesday to discuss the damage done to 'her' van during this critical stage of this investigation because Misty's attention should have been focused on finding HaLeigh. Chelsea said Misty called and spoke with her about the damage done to "her van" on Tuesday. When did Misty find the time to address this matter and conduct this private conversation with Chelsea? Chelsea shouldn't have known the van was damaged until after she spoke with Misty at 4 am Tuesday morning, and if Chelsea made arrangements with Lisa before going to Gainesville and Misty stayed with Ron and went to PCSO for a long and exhaustive interview, how and when did Misty find out the van was damaged and confront Chelsea? I doubt Misty was near the van on Tuesday to verify what Chelsea told her or had time to carry on a conversation with Chelsea on Tuesday about the damage done to the van.

It is possible Misty was in the van Monday evening with her blanket when the van was damaged.

Perhaps a cinder block or another object used to commit this crime against HaLeigh scratched the driver's side of the van or the scratch was placed there to mislead LE and point the finger at Joe.

 

[twall]

Is it possible Misty knew exactly when and how the van was damaged and her conversation with Chelsea on Tuesday is a ruse? It seems odd to me that Misty would call Chelsea on Tuesday to discuss the damage done to 'her' van during this critical stage of this investigation because Misty's attention should have been focused on finding HaLeigh. Chelsea said Misty called and spoke with her about the damage done to "her van" on Tuesday. When did Misty find the time to address this matter and conduct this private conversation with Chelsea? Chelsea shouldn't have known the van was damaged until after she spoke with Misty at 4 am Tuesday morning, and if Chelsea made arrangements with Lisa before going to Gainesville and Misty stayed with Ron and went to PCSO for a long and exhaustive interview, how and when did Misty find out the van was damaged and confront Chelsea? I doubt Misty was near the van on Tuesday to verify what Chelsea told her or had time to carry on a conversation with Chelsea on Tuesday about the damage done to the van.

It is possible Misty was in the van Monday evening with her blanket when the van was damaged.

Perhaps a cinder block or another object used to commit this crime against HaLeigh scratched the driver's side of the van or the scratch was placed there to mislead LE and point the finger at Joe.

The report is wrong. It was Lindsy that called Chelsea. Matt Saffer is a terrible reporter, imo. Lindsy is the owner of the van, not Misty.