The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

[pcrum12]

Those are symptoms only. Unless I see a psychological or psychiatric report that says Casey was diagnosed by a professional as being a sexual abuse or incest survivor, I am not believing she was ever sexually abused by George or Lee. The DT didn't even have a psychologist or psychiatrist testify to this in court at any time. Anyone can have any of these symptoms for a variety of reasons. I probably fit in about three or four of these symptoms myself, and I was never sexually abused.

No, incest does not cause dissociative states. Incest does not cause the kind of behavior FCA engaged in. Correlation is NOT causation. That is incorrect nonsense.

See above exact post by Horace. He/She stated NO, Incest does not cause dissociative states. Incest does not cause the kind of behaviour.....
I would like to see those reports myself. Regardless, these are symptons of Adult Survivors of Sexual Abuse. Yes, these sysmptons do cross over to other diagnosis but most do to a number of different causes. That's like saying the only time you itch is from a flea bite. Not taking into consideration other reasons you may itch. Nerves, sweat, allergic reaction, hair tickling, other insect bites, etc.

ETA: Aedrys, I had to edit for I actually thought your comment was from Horace. Now updated to reflect such. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[cuppy199]

It was using in closing the bag? Packaging? If you read the autopsy and review trial - my description of the tape is correct.

I read everything in this case and not one thing even points to what your referring to as packaging. Which makes no sense at all to say that the tape was to seal the bag but some how was found in the postion by the skull and still stuck to the hair where it need to be cut away. If it was in fact on the bag to cover it the part of the bag that the tape was stuck to would of came off with the tape. If the tape was still stuck to the hair it most certainly would of still had parts of the bag stuck to it also.

 

[pcrum12]

And this is pure speculation with not one shred of evidence presented at trial.

And that's just it to me. In order to come to a conclusion in this case everyone has to SPECULATE. Regardless of which side of the fence you are on. Therefore, reasonable doubt. Therefore, NG. JMO

 

[Sustained]

pure speculation. No evidence that she printed it.

Kinda like the accident theory - pure speculation. We know for a fact that FCA typed 'how to make chloroform' in the Google search engine. And FCA had plenty of time at the house to destroy all kinds of evidence, including a printed chloroform recipe ...

 

[grandmaj]

Respectfully, a trial is not about maybe or could be right? A trial is about evidence. There was no evidence that Casey was ever molested. So the jury could not use reasoning that her actions were as a result of any mental issues she had from such speculated abuse.

Evidence is weighed. Not personal feelings or speculations that the jurors, us, the news or anyone else has.

Not one witness testified to her reactions being a result of sexual abuse. And why is it that the Anthony family refused to allow Casey to return home? Maybe because of her defense being one big whopping lie?

I can't reach that far. Not without some evidence and so far no one has presented any.

 

[Sustained]

And that's just it to me. In order to come to a conclusion in this case everyone has to SPECULATE. Regardless of which side of the fence you are on. Therefore, reasonable doubt. Therefore, NG. JMO

Not really ... the State's theory of death by chloroform and duct tape had plenty of evidence to back it up, including the most important evidence ... the consciousness of guilt. The Defense's theory of an accidental drowning and molestation had zero evidence to back it up as I don't consider a picture of Caylee on the pool ladder as evidence of drowning.

Please answer these questions if you would be so kind ...

1) Did the State present a photograph of Caylee playing with duct tape and say that was how she was killed ? That is what the DT is saying in effect with the pic of Caylee on the pool ladder.

2) If the Defense had presented a picture of Caylee riding her tricycle out front of the A's home, is it reasonable to assume she was hit by a car and killed ? Same analogy as the fake drowning ...

3) Say there was a drowning ... why have the A's left the pool up ?

4) Since there was NO evidence of molestation, the jurors should have given enormous weight to the consciousness of guilt evidence and there was plenty.

5) How does anyone in their right mind not think a dead Caylee was in the trunk of the Sunfire ? In addition to all of the smell testimony/chloroform/stain/hair evidence, the highly trained and accurate cadaver dogs HIT in the trunk of the car.

 

[annalia]

And that's just it to me. In order to come to a conclusion in this case everyone has to SPECULATE. Regardless of which side of the fence you are on. Therefore, reasonable doubt. Therefore, NG. JMO

OMG, that is NOT reasonable doubt!!

RD is not based on fantasy. The evidence points to casey and only casey, everything else has been fantasy.

GA molesting casey = fantasy.

JMHO

 

[coco puff]

the duct tape was rare. The defense team claimed that if you could follow the duct tape to the person who dumped her. Even they knew where it originated.

There is no dispute by me that the tape belonged to the Anthonys. The tape was attached to hair on one side and laying (not adhered to) across the face. Rk gave a different story every time he was questioned including on the stand at the trial. He stated that when he poked his stick in the eye socket he pivoted the skull to get a better look. He also stated that he picked the bag up waist high. He also stated that the skull rolled out of the bag. Hard to figure out where that tape originated IMO.

so you believe the tape belonged to the anthonys but you can't figure out how it got matted around her hair while lying in a swamp in garbage bags? The tape wasn't lying in the correct position where her face would have been for you to believe it was applied by her lying, LE decieving, fake call getting, phone losing, resume padding, rape crying, check stealing mother?

 

[Sustained]

EXACTLY! He wouldn't encourage her to talk to the authorities b/c it would risk her cracking under the detective's pressure and the truth of his involvement would come out and give him away. That would be stupid. He's a cop and if he were involved he would have told her not to talk to the police and tell her to lawyer up.

Then why was he so cooperative with the police ? And why did FCA sit in jail for 3 years facing the DP when it was supposedly an accident ? And why did GA testify against FCA in the grand jury and at trial ? This is a guy who would fall on a sword for his daughter ...

The obvious answer is that he thinks/knows that FCA did something to harm Caylee.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Common Symptoms in Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse:

Physical Presentations
Chronic pelvic pain
Gastrointestinal symptoms/distress
Musculoskeletal complaints
Obesity, eating disorders
Insomnia, sleep disorders
Pseudocyesis
Sexual dysfunction
Asthma, respiratory ailments
Addiction
Chronic headache
Chronic back pain
Psychologic and Behavioral Presentations
Depression and anxiety
Posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms
Dissociative states
Repeated self-injury
Suicide attempts
Lying, stealing, truancy, running away
Poor contraceptive practices
Compulsive sexual behaviors
Sexual dysfunction
Somatizing disorders
Eating disorders
Poor adherence to medical recommendations
Intolerance of or constant search for intimacy
Expectation of early death


Although there is no single syndrome that is universally present in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, there is an extensive body of research that documents adverse short- and long-term effects of such abuse. To appropriately treat and manage survivors of CSA, it is useful to understand that survivors' symptoms or behavioral sequelae often represent coping strategies employed in response to abnormal, traumatic events. These coping mechanisms are used for protection during the abuse or later to guard against feelings of overwhelming helplessness and terror. Although some of these coping strategies may eventually lead to health problems, if symptoms are evaluated outside their original context, survivors may be misdiagnosed or mislabeled

http://www.aaets.org/article120.htm

Incest does NOT cause dissociation. No correlation is shown there. From your cut'n paste - you left out that "Responses can be greatly variable and idiosyncratic within the seven categories. Also, survivors may fluctuate between being highly symptomatic and relatively symptom free." Wow that's pretty hard evidence huh? Everything is a symptom of trauma in the same way that everything is a way of grieving. Nice try though, <modsnip>

 

[cuppy199]

OMG, that is NOT reasonable doubt!!

RD is not based on fantasy. The evidence points to casey and only casey, everything else has been fantasy.

GA molesting casey = fantasy.

JMHO

Exactly To meet the reasonable doubt standard, the lack of certainty must be based on reason; that is, based on the evidence or lack of it. It cannot be a doubt derived from speculation.

 

[coco puff]

Common Symptoms in Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse:

Physical Presentations
Chronic pelvic pain
Gastrointestinal symptoms/distress
Musculoskeletal complaints
Obesity, eating disorders
Insomnia, sleep disorders
Pseudocyesis
Sexual dysfunction
Asthma, respiratory ailments
Addiction
Chronic headache
Chronic back pain
Psychologic and Behavioral Presentations
Depression and anxiety
Posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms
Dissociative states
Repeated self-injury
Suicide attempts
Lying, stealing, truancy, running away
Poor contraceptive practices
Compulsive sexual behaviors
Sexual dysfunction
Somatizing disorders
Eating disorders
Poor adherence to medical recommendations
Intolerance of or constant search for intimacy
Expectation of early death


Although there is no single syndrome that is universally present in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, there is an extensive body of research that documents adverse short- and long-term effects of such abuse. To appropriately treat and manage survivors of CSA, it is useful to understand that survivors' symptoms or behavioral sequelae often represent coping strategies employed in response to abnormal, traumatic events. These coping mechanisms are used for protection during the abuse or later to guard against feelings of overwhelming helplessness and terror. Although some of these coping strategies may eventually lead to health problems, if symptoms are evaluated outside their original context, survivors may be misdiagnosed or mislabeled

http://www.aaets.org/article120.htm

What are the odds that she accually WAS abused AND would have any of these disorders AND her child dying in a tragic accident AND on top of all of that, the smell of human decomp in her car?

hmmm, all of this and she was apprently a great mother too!

 

[annalia]

Not really ... the State's theory of death by chloroform and duct tape had plenty of evidence to back it up, including the most important evidence ... the consciousness of guilt. The Defense's theory of an accidental drowning and molestation had zero evidence to back it up as I don't consider a picture of Caylee on the pool ladder as evidence of drowning.

Please answer these questions if you would be so kind ...

1) Did the State present a photograph of Caylee playing with duct tape and say that was how she was killed ? That is what the DT is saying in effect with the pic of Caylee on the pool ladder.

2) If the Defense had presented a picture of Caylee riding her tricycle out front of the A's home, is it reasonable to assume she was hit by a car and killed ? Same analogy as the fake drowning ...

3) Say there was a drowning ... why have the A's left the pool up ?

4) Since there was NO evidence of molestation, the jurors should have given enormous weight to the consciousness of guilt evidence and there was plenty.

5) How does anyone in their right mind not think a dead Caylee was in the trunk of the Sunfire ? In addition to all of the smell testimony/chloroform/stain/hair evidence, the highly trained and accurate cadaver dogs HIT in the trunk of the car.

Exactly

There is a video of Caylee dancing all around the house, is that evidence that she fell against the furniture and cracked her head?
There is a video of Caylee near the tv, is that evidence that the tv toppled over on her?

 

[pcrum12]

I think Duct Tape sticks to just about anything. And remember, that tropical storm didn't happen until September or October, I think. That's a lot of time to sit in a dry place, under the Florida heat. I'm thinking liquids evaporated, and the tape remained firmly stuck to her hair, which kept it firmly stuck over Caylee's skeletal face as well. The key here is that the duct tape remained stuck to her hair, which kept it on the skull. Since the hair only pooled around the base after the tissue and muscle was gone, it kept the tape over the skull. The hair is key here. If there was no hair to keep the duct tape there, it would have come off.

But my understanding is that the it was only stuck on one side in the hair

 

[LambChop]

Exactly

There is a video of Caylee dancing all around the house, is that evidence that she fell against the furniture and cracked her head?
There is a video of Caylee near the tv, is that evidence that the tv toppled over on her?

Maybe it was the dogs and they tried to bury her in the back yard.....Nah, they slept too much. jmo

 

[NotRocketSighence]

9 out of the 12 are NOT speaking ... their "SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES" ...

...

*respectfully snipped*

Given that we don't know them personally I don't think we can infer anything about their silence beyond it is their absolute right and choice not to speak publicly as given to them under the law and as instructed by Judge Perry before their final dismissal.

The public have no right under the law to know about their decision or the deliberations.

 

[mimmy03]

Then why was he so cooperative with the police ? And why did FCA sit in jail for 3 years facing the DP when it was supposedly an accident ? And why did GA testify against FCA in the grand jury and at trial ? This is a guy who would fall on a sword for his daughter ...

The obvious answer is that he thinks/knows that FCA did something to harm Caylee.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was giving a hypothetical scenario *if* GA was involved and how it makes no sense if he were involved to encourage FCA to talk to LE. In my eyes he has done nothing suspicious that points to him possibly murdering Caylee or disposing of her body. FCA, on the other hand.... that's a whole 'nother story.

 

[grandmaj]

And that's just it to me. In order to come to a conclusion in this case everyone has to SPECULATE. Regardless of which side of the fence you are on. Therefore, reasonable doubt. Therefore, NG. JMO

My personal opinion is a little different. I wouldn't call speculation what a jury should do. But rather suggest that deductive reasoning based on evidence not theatrics of the attorneys is their job. Taking the pieces of true evidence and trying to put it together using common sense. I also think a big part of this is seeing past the attorneys and their statements of fact because they can't present evidence.

And I think that Jose Baez was given wayyyyy too much latitude in his leading questions in this trial. I believe he testified all over the place.

 

[pcrum12]

I read everything in this case and not one thing even points to what your referring to as packaging. Which makes no sense at all to say that the tape was to seal the bag but some how was found in the postion by the skull and still stuck to the hair where it need to be cut away. If it was in fact on the bag to cover it the part of the bag that the tape was stuck to would of came off with the tape. If the tape was still stuck to the hair it most certainly would of still had parts of the bag stuck to it also.

The DT spent a lot of time saying just that. The tape was used in packaging. Trial evidence. IMO considering animals, TS Fay, it is possible that the tape was shifted and/or transfered and adhered to the hair.

 

[pcrum12]

Respectfully, a trial is not about maybe or could be right? A trial is about evidence. There was no evidence that Casey was ever molested. So the jury could not use reasoning that her actions were as a result of any mental issues she had from such speculated abuse.

Evidence is weighed. Not personal feelings or speculations that the jurors, us, the news or anyone else has.

Not one witness testified to her reactions being a result of sexual abuse. And why is it that the Anthony family refused to allow Casey to return home? Maybe because of her defense being one big whopping lie?

I can't reach that far. Not without some evidence and so far no one has presented any.

Exactly why there was a NG verdict. Even leaving out sexual abuse, drowning, the states evidence IMO was not strong enough to convict. They just didn't have the answers to what actually happened. As far as the Anthony family not allowing her to return home, I don't see that. No doubt Cindy would have opened her arms wide. IMO, she had no intent on returning home. Casey made that decision. JMO