The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #4

[MarthaM]

I think the fact that FCA googled 'How to make chloroform' combined with the shockingly high levels found in the trunk is pretty strong evidence that she attempted to make it and use it on Caylee.

I think that's a good example of why the jury's verdict is so hard for some to understand. I can't take a google search and levels of chloroform as evidence that anybody attempted to make it or use it. Others think those two elements lead clearly to that one conclusion. I just don't see it, and apparently the jury didn't, either.

And the same is true for the rest of the prosecutors' case. They tried to get from Point A to Point B, and for most trial watchers, they got there. For others, like me and the jury, they only made it so far down that road and not nearly far enough to convict of anything. The prosecution somehow must have believed they had enough to convince a jury, but they didn't. Even if you add up all the circumstantial evidence, it just didn't get to the end of the road.

 

[BellaVita]

..that deliberation timeline isn't correct, according to what their foreman said.

..they began deliberations at approx. 2:15 ----they 1st elected a foreman, and "about an hour later", 3:15, took the 1st 'raise your hands' pre-vote, which resulted in the 10 NG-2 G.

..( deliberated for a couple of hours i guess, i don't know when they broke for dinner and the evening.)

..one of the 2G's was 'uncertain' the other 'adamant'.

..the next day (verdict day) they began with getting the counts 4-7 "knocked out" , and then went back to counts 1-3.

..at some point on day 2, the 2 G's dropped it----and they went on to get the 6 NG-6 G aggravated manslaughter vote.

( i don't have a link, but i'm sure J11 or J3 said that vote was just before lunch? i seem to think it was J3, i remember being a little shocked that jenniferF was one of the initial 6 Guilties on that..)

..we know they got from 6-6 to--- 0 G-12 NG not too long after lunch b/c we heard they had reached a verdict---there was a bit of a break to get all parties into the courtroom---and we heard the verdict at 2:15 or so..

..also, i personally never thought they didn't vote guilty on count 1 b/c they would be sequestered longer for the penalty phase------i did think they wanted out of there in general, b/c of the sequestration they'd already been through....and therefore rushed deliberations.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...reman-039everything-was-speculation039?page=3
--jury foreman--GVS--

Hi There,

First post here ever but been reading since Scott Peterson case. Just to add to deliberation timeline: On verdict day they began at 8:30. I live in FL and was flipping through all national/local channels when Jean Casares on HLN or TruTV came on air and said that she just received word that the jury wanted to order lunch. This was at 11:10am.

I remember being shocked that they were ordering already and thought that they must have reached a verdict and wanted one last lunch courtesy of the taxpayers. I have no way of knowing for sure but I am certain they were done by that time. Especially since I recall the foreman saying that they spent LOTS of time discussing among themselves how they wanted to handle the media. They finished lunch at their regularly scheduled time of 1:30 and then notified the court that verdict had been reached when in reality the verdict had been decided for several hours already. IMO.

 

[runsdeep]

About the chloroform level in the trunk being in parts per million.
Let us hypothetically say, the jury completely understood what Dr. Vass was saying, and did know that the chloroform level in the trunk of the Pontiac was shockingly high:
What inference could be made from the fact that the chloroform levels in the air in the trunk were shockingly high?
What inferences were made by the state in regards to the chloroform level in the trunk being shockingly high?

seems i recall it has to do with substances present that are consistent with a dead person's body. can someone out there who is more "records savy" than me find that information?

 

[MissJames]

Cases are decided on circumstantial evidence every day exactly like the chloroform google search.
The difference in this case isn't the evidence ,it's the jury.

How big of a coincidence would it have to be for Casey to google "how to make chloroform " (along with several other searches on how to kill), then high levels of chloroform just happen to be found in her trunk with decomposition and a hair from Caylee with the deathbanding .Then, Caylee's skeletonized body is found months later despite Casey's lies.

Offenders actions leading up to a murder are often part of the puzzle that leads to a conviction . The computer search by itself means nothing,but put together with the rest of the circumstances it creates a picture of what happened.
Everyone uses this type of logic to function day to day. People who can't , have a very difficult time navigating through each day. Simply driving to the store requires we use circumstantial reasoning .
Other juries are able to apply the evidence appropriately .
This jury not only couldn't apply the evidence,they either didn't listen or read the jury instructions,or they couldn't understand them. OR they allowed a know it all to convince them that he/she knew best.
I suspect there are jurors who now realize they were led astray and they are pretty ticked off.The truth will come out sooner or later.

The verdict is over . The story behind the verdict is not.

JMO

 

[jon_burrows]

I think that's a good example of why the jury's verdict is so hard for some to understand. I can't take a google search and levels of chloroform as evidence that anybody attempted to make it or use it. Others think those two elements lead clearly to that one conclusion. I just don't see it, and apparently the jury didn't, either.

And the same is true for the rest of the prosecutors' case. They tried to get from Point A to Point B, and for most trial watchers, they got there. For others, like me and the jury, they only made it so far down that road and not nearly far enough to convict of anything. The prosecution somehow must have believed they had enough to convince a jury, but they didn't. Even if you add up all the circumstantial evidence, it just didn't get to the end of the road.

I understand your opinion regarding the chloroform. I would not convict on that evidence alone.

The prosecution had a mountain of evidence against FCA. I'm sure someone could pick apart every single piece but it's the entirety of evidence that points to FCA.

I believe BARD:

- The duct tape was the murder weapon and FCA suffocated Caylee. Her skull was found with three long layers of duct tape over her mouth and nose wrapped into her hair. The duct tape was rare and it came from the A home. Keeping in mind, Caylee's body would have been completely skeletonized within 2-3 weeks. The tape held her mandible in place. Someone (RK) did not come along months later, rummage through the swampy area to find her mandible, duct tape her mandible & skull together, then return it to the scene like the defense ME said. The Whitney laundry basket came from a set of two. The other one was at the A home. Caylee's Pooh blanket, found at the scene, was from the A home.

- Caylee's deceased body was in the trunk of FCA's car for at least two days. Two cadaver dogs hit in the trunk. Many people who knew the smell of death said that's exactly what the car smelled like. Dr. Vass opened a can with a small carpet sample and jumped back because the stench of death was so strong. Casey sent a text message about the smell of a dead squirrel in the car. Caylee's hair with a death band was found in the car. Cindy even said it smells like there's been a damn dead body in the car because there was one.

- FCA abandoned her smelly car within walking distance of a gas station. She also left it next to a dumpster behind the Amscot to mask the smell. Tony offered to take a look at the car but FCA said no, her father would take care of it (lie of course). She didn't want him to get a whiff of the car.

- 31 days! Listening to the lies rolling off her tongue one after the other at Universal. She even stated she talked to her dead daughter the day before. The detectives gave her chance after chance to say it was an accident but she was sticking to the Zanny the Nanny did it.

- The videos of her shopping and what she bought. This was no grieving mother distraught over the accidental death of her daughter.

- The blockbuster video of of a happy FCA while her dead daughter was in the trunk.

- Every single person she came in contact with during those 31 days said she acted fine.

- The jail house videos when she said all they care about is finding Caylee and give me Tony's number. She couldn't care less about Caylee.

Basically follow the body. FCA--> FCA's car-->dumped like trash in a swamp down the street from her home. FCA goes on with her new happy childless life. She was hiding out from her family because they were the ones that insisted on seeing Caylee.

IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

I think that's a good example of why the jury's verdict is so hard for some to understand. I can't take a google search and levels of chloroform as evidence that anybody attempted to make it or use it. Others think those two elements lead clearly to that one conclusion. I just don't see it, and apparently the jury didn't, either.

And the same is true for the rest of the prosecutors' case. They tried to get from Point A to Point B, and for most trial watchers, they got there. For others, like me and the jury, they only made it so far down that road and not nearly far enough to convict of anything. The prosecution somehow must have believed they had enough to convince a jury, but they didn't. Even if you add up all the circumstantial evidence, it just didn't get to the end of the road.

Well for a start - all the evidence and testimony they could have looked at or had read back would have been a start.....there was a mountain with a capital M of circumstantial evidence that pointed to only FCA as the perp.
Would have helped if the jury had actually concentrated when the witnesses were up - the evidence presented...

Actually Bill S. said in his more than 30 years of criminal law - he cannot remember a case with so much circumstantial evidence ever before.

 

[logicalgirl]

I understand your opinion regarding the chloroform. I would not convict on that evidence alone.

The prosecution had a mountain of evidence against FCA. I'm sure someone could pick apart every single piece but it's the entirety of evidence that points to FCA.

I believe BARD:

- The duct tape was the murder weapon and FCA suffocated Caylee. Her skull was found with three long layers of duct tape over her mouth and nose wrapped into her hair. The duct tape was rare and it came from the A home. Keeping in mind, Caylee's body would have been completely skeletonized within 2-3 weeks. The tape held her mandible in place. Someone (RK) did not come along months later, rummage through the swampy area to find her mandible, duct tape her mandible & skull together, then return it to the scene like the defense ME said. The Whitney laundry basket came from a set of two. The other one was at the A home. Caylee's Pooh blanket, found at the scene, was from the A home.

- Caylee's deceased body was in the trunk of FCA's car for at least two days. Two cadaver dogs hit in the trunk. Many people who knew the smell of death said that's exactly what the car smelled like. Dr. Vass opened a can with a small carpet sample and jumped back because the stench of death was so strong. Casey sent a text message about the smell of a dead squirrel in the car. Caylee's hair with a death band was found in the car. Cindy even said it smells like there's been a damn dead body in the car because there was one.

- FCA abandoned her smelly car within walking distance of a gas station. She also left it next to a dumpster behind the Amscot to mask the smell. Tony offered to take a look at the car but FCA said no, her father would take care of it (lie of course). She didn't want him to get a whiff of the car.

- 31 days! Listening to the lies rolling off her tongue one after the other at Universal. She even stated she talked to her dead daughter the day before. The detectives gave her chance after chance to say it was an accident but she was sticking to the Zanny the Nanny did it.

- The videos of her shopping and what she bought. This was no grieving mother distraught over the accidental death of her daughter.

- The blockbuster video of of a happy FCA while her dead daughter was in the trunk.

- Every single person she came in contact with during those 31 days said she acted fine.

- The jail house videos when she said all they care about is finding Caylee and give me Tony's number. She couldn't care less about Caylee.

Basically follow the body. FCA--> FCA's car-->dumped like trash in a swamp down the street from her home. FCA goes on with her new happy childless life. She was hiding out from her family because they were the ones that insisted on seeing Caylee.

IMO

Applause Please - except for one minor point - the gas station was across the street....could have just used the crosswalk and bingo..

 

[LambChop]

I am asking what does high levels of chloroform in a trunk mean, in regards to proving KC used chloroform on Caylee?

The mere fact that the levels were too high, when they should have been non existant does nothing but raise questions. It makes you wonder how could those levels be so high. It makes you wonder what could cause those levels to be so high. It doesn't put a chloroform doused rag in KC's hand.

Neither the state nor Dr. Vass gave any reason why the chloroform level was so high, only that it was high.

What does high levels of chloroform in a trunk prove?

I don't understand how the unexplained high level of chloroform can be connected to KC. There isn't enough information. The state and Dr. Vass did not say, it is possible that if KC accidently broke a bottle of chloroform in the trunk while using it on Caylee, the chloroform level in the trunk could have been shockingly high. The state and Dr. Vass offered no explanation at all as to what may have caused the high level of chloroform.

Simple as ABC:

A = it was KC's car in terms of use - check
B = "How to make chloroform" on computer while only KC was home - check
C = RM had "Win her over with chloroform" on his computer - check

One person we did not hear from and that was Tracy M. She claims KC mentioned chloroform as a knock out drug.

Caylee was found with duct tape on her face and levels of chloroform in KC's trunk. One could only hope Caylee was "out" while KC put that duct tape on her face. It could have been that the container was knocked over and that is why there was a high concentration of chloroform on the tire cover. KC had 31 days to get rid of whatever was in that trunk.

If someone gave KC the chloroform we would never know it because that person would never come forward. Secret is safe with KC because she will never admit to it being in her trunk.

One of the things that still bothers me is TL testified that they all went to Fusion in KC's car on Friday the 14th, I believe, and during the trial DT gave the jury the impression this group was in KC's car after Caylee went missing because they asked them if there was any smell from the car. jmo

 

[denjet]

Of course the verdict was wrong and a baby killer walked free ... but it was NOT for lack of evidence of guilt, it was because of a jury with not ONE person on it who would stand for what's right under the law
I can understand the length of the trial and sequestration, but, had I been on the jury and known nothing of the case prior to trial, I would have been utterly shocked at the evidence presented ... the autopsy photos would have haunted me ... and there would have been no way I would have caved to go home given the seriousness of the crime and the length of time I had already been apart from my family ...
Just the thought of the killer getting away with it would have made me nauseous ...
IMO there most certainly was juror misconduct and manipulation of the other jurors definitely took place but I would have stood my ground, my conscience would not have allowed me to do otherwise ... I just don't get what was wrong with ALL of them ??? :waitasec:

 

[jon_burrows]

Applause Please - except for one minor point - the gas station was across the street....could have just used the crosswalk and bingo..

It was trying to keep the post short, there was much more evidence. Hope I hit the major points.

Anyway, I found the video of Mark Furhman at the Amscot Parking lot. There were actually two gas stations. 4:13 mark:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPdDRIIPc1g"]Holes in Casey Anthony's Statement about Car being Out of Gas - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MarthaM]

I think 'believe' is the key word when it comes to understanding how a jury could arrive at this verdict or not. A piece of circumstantial evidence can lead a person to believe something, or it can lead a person to believe something else, or it can lead a person to no particular conclusion. The same is true when there's a lot of circumstantial evidence; for some it can add up to one conclusion, for others it can lead to a different conclusion, and for others it can lead to no conclusion at all.

Snipping each point for length:

I believe BARD:

- The duct tape was the murder weapon and FCA suffocated Caylee. Her skull was found with three long layers of duct tape over her mouth and nose wrapped into her hair. The duct tape was rare and it came from the A home. Keeping in mind, Caylee's body would have been completely skeletonized within 2-3 weeks. The tape held her mandible in place. Someone (RK) did not come along months later, rummage through the swampy area to find her mandible, duct tape her mandible & skull together, then return it to the scene like the defense ME said. The Whitney laundry basket came from a set of two. The other one was at the A home. Caylee's Pooh blanket, found at the scene, was from the A home.

I don't believe the duct tape was the murder weapon, and the prosecutors didn't prove that. I don't believe that items that are connected to the deceased's home point to any one person as the perpetrator. It's likely that items from the deceased's home would be with the body, but that doesn't mean she was murdered.

Caylee's deceased body was in the trunk of FCA's car for at least two days. Two cadaver dogs hit in the trunk. Many people who knew the smell of death said that's exactly what the car smelled like. Dr. Vass opened a can with a small carpet sample and jumped back because the stench of death was so strong. Casey sent a text message about the smell of a dead squirrel in the car. Caylee's hair with a death band was found in the car. Cindy even said it smells like there's been a damn dead body in the car because there was one.

I believe it's very probable that Caylee's body was in that trunk. I think it was. But that doesn't prove anything about who, if anyone, killed her.

FCA abandoned her smelly car within walking distance of a gas station. She also left it next to a dumpster behind the Amscot to mask the smell. Tony offered to take a look at the car but FCA said no, her father would take care of it (lie of course). She didn't want him to get a whiff of the car.

That's all guesswork, perhaps a prosecution theory, but that's it. Too vague to have any real meaning.

31 days! Listening to the lies rolling off her tongue one after the other at Universal. She even stated she talked to her dead daughter the day before. The detectives gave her chance after chance to say it was an accident but she was sticking to the Zanny the Nanny did it.

Yes. But that still doesn't prove she killed her, even circumstantially. As I've said before, the prosecution did a fine job of proving that Casey and her family were a complete mess, but that's about all they proved.

The videos of her shopping and what she bought. This was no grieving mother distraught over the accidental death of her daughter.

I snipped out the rest of her 31-day behavior, as my position on all of that is the same:

I attach no importance to a person shopping after a death---any kind of death. It's a very common thing. But I think a reasonable interpretation of her behavior during those '31 days' could also be that Caylee died in some accidental way and Casey reacted using the tools she'd always used throughout her life--lies, cover up, and deceit. The last thing she would have done was act like a grieving mother distraught over anything; she kept acting as though everything was as it had always been.

So even taking all of that 'evidence' together, I just don't get to murder. I don't even get to any other kind of killing below murder. They didn't connect any dots for me, and I expect that's how the jurors felt, too.

 

[Whisperer]

The crime was 1st degree murder without the chloroform. I believe Caylee was suffocated by the duct tape. Suffocating any person is 1st degree murder because they have time to reflect and stop.

Premeditation can mean seconds. It took time to get the duct tape. It took time to put three layers of duct tape over Caylee's face and it took time for her to suffocate.

IMO

Three layers says "Intent to murder". If she was covering up an accident (stupid thought) one layer would have been sufficient. She was in a rage when the tape was placed on Caylee.

You can compare it to overkill by stabbing. People in a rage continue to stab, they can't help themselves.

Once I learned THREE layers, that was it. The conclusion was murder.

 

[runsdeep]

Simple as ABC:

A = it was KC's car in terms of use - check
B = "How to make chloroform" on computer while only KC was home - check
C = RM had "Win her over with chloroform" on his computer - check

One person we did not hear from and that was Tracy M. She claims KC mentioned chloroform as a knock out drug.

Caylee was found with duct tape on her face and levels of chloroform in KC's trunk. One could only hope Caylee was "out" while KC put that duct tape on her face. It could have been that the container was knocked over and that is why there was a high concentration of chloroform on the tire cover. KC had 31 days to get rid of whatever was in that trunk.

If someone gave KC the chloroform we would never know it because that person would never come forward. Secret is safe with KC because she will never admit to it being in her trunk.

One of the things that still bothers me is TL testified that they all went to Fusion in KC's car on Friday the 14th, I believe, and during the trial DT gave the jury the impression this group was in KC's car after Caylee went missing because they asked them if there was any smell from the car. jmo

tracy mclaughlin's theory is that she was bundled up in plastic in the trunk until george almost got into the trunk about the gas can, then drove down the street hung a right and dumped her tearing the bag when lifting from the trunk.

 

[runsdeep]

:clap::clap:

I understand your opinion regarding the chloroform. I would not convict on that evidence alone.

The prosecution had a mountain of evidence against FCA. I'm sure someone could pick apart every single piece but it's the entirety of evidence that points to FCA.

I believe BARD:

- The duct tape was the murder weapon and FCA suffocated Caylee. Her skull was found with three long layers of duct tape over her mouth and nose wrapped into her hair. The duct tape was rare and it came from the A home. Keeping in mind, Caylee's body would have been completely skeletonized within 2-3 weeks. The tape held her mandible in place. Someone (RK) did not come along months later, rummage through the swampy area to find her mandible, duct tape her mandible & skull together, then return it to the scene like the defense ME said. The Whitney laundry basket came from a set of two. The other one was at the A home. Caylee's Pooh blanket, found at the scene, was from the A home.

- Caylee's deceased body was in the trunk of FCA's car for at least two days. Two cadaver dogs hit in the trunk. Many people who knew the smell of death said that's exactly what the car smelled like. Dr. Vass opened a can with a small carpet sample and jumped back because the stench of death was so strong. Casey sent a text message about the smell of a dead squirrel in the car. Caylee's hair with a death band was found in the car. Cindy even said it smells like there's been a damn dead body in the car because there was one.

- FCA abandoned her smelly car within walking distance of a gas station. She also left it next to a dumpster behind the Amscot to mask the smell. Tony offered to take a look at the car but FCA said no, her father would take care of it (lie of course). She didn't want him to get a whiff of the car.

- 31 days! Listening to the lies rolling off her tongue one after the other at Universal. She even stated she talked to her dead daughter the day before. The detectives gave her chance after chance to say it was an accident but she was sticking to the Zanny the Nanny did it.

- The videos of her shopping and what she bought. This was no grieving mother distraught over the accidental death of her daughter.

- The blockbuster video of of a happy FCA while her dead daughter was in the trunk.

- Every single person she came in contact with during those 31 days said she acted fine.

- The jail house videos when she said all they care about is finding Caylee and give me Tony's number. She couldn't care less about Caylee.

Basically follow the body. FCA--> FCA's car-->dumped like trash in a swamp down the street from her home. FCA goes on with her new happy childless life. She was hiding out from her family because they were the ones that insisted on seeing Caylee.

IMO

:clap:

 

[LambChop]

I think 'believe' is the key word when it comes to understanding how a jury could arrive at this verdict or not. A piece of circumstantial evidence can lead a person to believe something, or it can lead a person to believe something else, or it can lead a person to no particular conclusion. The same is true when there's a lot of circumstantial evidence; for some it can add up to one conclusion, for others it can lead to a different conclusion, and for others it can lead to no conclusion at all.

Snipping each point for length:



I don't believe the duct tape was the murder weapon, and the prosecutors didn't prove that. I don't believe that items that are connected to the deceased's home point to any one person as the perpetrator. It's likely that items from the deceased's home would be with the body, but that doesn't mean she was murdered.



I believe it's very probable that Caylee's body was in that trunk. I think it was. But that doesn't prove anything about who, if anyone, killed her.



That's all guesswork, perhaps a prosecution theory, but that's it. Too vague to have any real meaning.



Yes. But that still doesn't prove she killed her, even circumstantially. As I've said before, the prosecution did a fine job of proving that Casey and her family were a complete mess, but that's about all they proved.



I snipped out the rest of her 31-day behavior, as my position on all of that is the same:

I attach no importance to a person shopping after a death---any kind of death. It's a very common thing. But I think a reasonable interpretation of her behavior during those '31 days' could also be that Caylee died in some accidental way and Casey reacted using the tools she'd always used throughout her life--lies, cover up, and deceit. The last thing she would have done was act like a grieving mother distraught over anything; she kept acting as though everything was as it had always been.

So even taking all of that 'evidence' together, I just don't get to murder. I don't even get to any other kind of killing below murder. They didn't connect any dots for me, and I expect that's how the jurors felt, too.

With one or two of the responses their might be a point. But with everything you just listed it is way to much to disregard when you are considering KC's guilt. It screams she did something and tried to hide it. When the excuses get complicated they are just that excuses. The truth KC would have you believe is not complicated certainly not full of a lot of what if's. Simple truth is the child is dead and someone caused her death because the remains still had the duct tape around her face. If this had been a drowning there would have been no duct tape and KC would have folded shortly after her arrest. Her lying is deceitful and still continues to this very day.

I'd love to poll this jury now. lol

jmo

 

[LambChop]

tracy mclaughlin's theory is that she was bundled up in plastic in the trunk until george almost got into the trunk about the gas can, then drove down the street hung a right and dumped her tearing the bag when lifting from the trunk.

Forensic reports say the body was in the trunk 2.6 days. The gas can incident was June 24th, that would have been 8 days after Caylee was last seen. KC would have needed a shopvac to get Caylee out of the trunk after 8 days in the Florida heat and double bagged in black plastic to boot. Black absorbs the heat. Our bodies are 90 to 94% water. The body bloats fast and sorry but after 8 days there would have been no doubt there was a body in that car. There is a good reason the corner keeps bodies in a refrigerated area. Plus Caylee was small so breakdown would have been faster. TM's theory sounds so familiar. Do the initials LP sound familiar, too? And, I must say, that someone like LP with his bounty hunter experience should know exactly how long it takes a body to decompose. jmo

 

[MarthaM]

With one or two of the responses their might be a point. But with everything you just listed it is way to much to disregard when you are considering KC's guilt. It screams she did something and tried to hide it. When the excuses get complicated they are just that excuses. The truth KC would have you believe is not complicated certainly not full of a lot of what if's. Simple truth is the child is dead and someone caused her death because the remains still had the duct tape around her face. If this had been a drowning there would have been no duct tape and KC would have folded shortly after her arrest. Her lying is deceitful and still continues to this very day.

I'd love to poll this jury now. lol

jmo

Well, that's why I said the word 'believe' is key, and that not everyone is going to believe what others do in every situation. As I said, it didn't all come together for me.

BTW, I do believe that Caylee's death was not intentional. I don't, however, think the drowning story is all that believeable. I suppose it's possible, but doubtful for me. Even if the defense hadn't suggested it, though, the thought that Caylee died but wasn't intentionally killed had occurred to me long before the trial--even before they found her body. For me, all of the circumstantial evidence points as clearly to the accidental theory as it points to murder for others.

As to the jury... I don't know that they'd feel any differently today, but it's a moot point. They weren't supposed to come to a decision based on what they've learned outside the courtroom. Anything they've learned since the trial is irrelevant. If anybody wants to list all the things that didn't come out in court and see what the jury thinks, I suppose that could be interesting. But still irrelevant.

I think the evidence in this case came out far differently to someone sitting in that courtroom as a juror than it did for the armchair jurors (all of us who watched it, especially those who followed all the details prior to the trial--and I'm not one of those).

 

[runsdeep]

Forensic reports say the body was in the trunk 2.6 days. The gas can incident was June 24th, that would have been 8 days after Caylee was last seen. KC would have needed a shopvac to get Caylee out of the trunk after 8 days in the Florida heat and double bagged in black plastic to boot. Black absorbs the heat. Our bodies are 90 to 94% water. The body bloats fast and sorry but after 8 days there would have been no doubt there was a body in that car. There is a good reason the corner keeps bodies in a refrigerated area. Plus Caylee was small so breakdown would have been faster. TM's theory sounds so familiar. Do the initials LP sound familiar, too? And, I must say, that someone like LP with his bounty hunter experience should know exactly how long it takes a body to decompose. jmo

is there a thread about theories on the timeline and how it may have played out?

 

[jon_burrows]

Well, that's why I said the word 'believe' is key, and that not everyone is going to believe what others do in every situation. As I said, it didn't all come together for me.

BTW, I do believe that Caylee's death was not intentional. I don't, however, think the drowning story is all that believeable. I suppose it's possible, but doubtful for me. Even if the defense hadn't suggested it, though, the thought that Caylee died but wasn't intentionally killed had occurred to me long before the trial--even before they found her body. For me, all of the circumstantial evidence points as clearly to the accidental theory as it points to murder for others.

As to the jury... I don't know that they'd feel any differently today, but it's a moot point. They weren't supposed to come to a decision based on what they've learned outside the courtroom. Anything they've learned since the trial is irrelevant. If anybody wants to list all the things that didn't come out in court and see what the jury thinks, I suppose that could be interesting. But still irrelevant.

I think the evidence in this case came out far differently to someone sitting in that courtroom as a juror than it did for the armchair jurors (all of us who watched it, especially those who followed all the details prior to the trial--and I'm not one of those).

There is no significance to the word 'believe'. I could have easily stated 'Casey killed Caylee because'.

Now I'm confused. You think it was an accident but the DT lied about the real accident so they could make up an imaginary accident? They kept the real accident a secret so she could go to trial and risk getting the death penalty. Please enlighten us on the real accident.

Where does the duct tape fit in? Keeping in mind the foreman, who saw the tape on her skull, said it was in the mouth nose area and it had been there a long time.

BBM - The jury had the chance to look at the evidence. They could have called for read backs of testimony but they didn't. They took little to no notes which is completely unacceptable in a murder trial. LDB told them they would get to read FCA's statement in the jury room (they didn't). They didn't even ask for the basics like the ME's report or FCA's written statement. If the jury had done what most of us here at websleuths did, which is read the actual evidence I think there would have been at least a hung jury.

Looking forward to hearing your accident theory.

IMO

 

[LambChop]

is there a thread about theories on the timeline and how it may have played out?

That I don't know. The forensic report was in the documents that were released. Somewhere in the threads is one titled the Body Farm which has a video and shows you the decomposition process and days involved but this study was not done in Florida so the process would have been faster because Caylee was bagged in the trunk. jmo