The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #4

[runsdeep]

There is no significance to the word 'believe'. I could have easily stated 'Casey killed Caylee because'.

Now I'm confused. You think it was an accident but the DT lied about the real accident so they could make up an imaginary accident? They kept the real accident a secret so she could go to trial and risk getting the death penalty. Please enlighten us on the real accident.

Where does the duct tape fit in? Keeping in mind the foreman, who saw the tape on her skull, said it was in the mouth nose area and it had been there a long time.

BBM - The jury had the chance to look at the evidence. They could have called for read backs of testimony but they didn't. They took little to no notes which is completely unacceptable in a murder trial. LDB told them they would get to read FCA's statement in the jury room (they didn't). They didn't even ask for the basics like the ME's report or FCA's written statement. If the jury had done what most of us here at websleuths did, which is read the actual evidence I think there would have been at least a hung jury.

Looking forward to hearing your accident theory.

IMO

and jeff ashton went into more detail on the tape. a piece across the mouth, a piece over the nose, and a cross piece over both to close in gaps.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

seems i recall it has to do with substances present that are consistent with a dead person's body. can someone out there who is more "records savy" than me find that information?

IIRC Dr. Vass said that the shockingly high levels of chloroform were way too high to have come from a decomposing body. That is not to say, that there was not a dead body decomposing in the trunk, it just means that there is no way that a decomposing body could have caused the chloroform levels to be that high. The high levels of chloroform had to be caused from something else.

 

[runsdeep]

That I don't know. The forensic report was in the documents that were released. Somewhere in the threads is one titled the Body Farm which has a video and shows you the decomposition process and days involved but this study was not done in Florida so the process would have been faster because Caylee was bagged in the trunk. jmo

i dont want to get off this topic here, but if any of you know of a thread where people analyze the possibilities of placements of caylee's body please let me know.

tracy m thought she placed her in the trunk until going back to the house to try to bury her, then when that was too much work decided to make it look like a kidnapping killing and there went the tape on the face and plastic bags and such.

 

[MarthaM]

There is no significance to the word 'believe'. I could have easily stated 'Casey killed Caylee because'.

I spoke about 'believe' because you had used that in your previous post.

Now I'm confused. You think it was an accident but the DT lied about the real accident so they could make up an imaginary accident? They kept the real accident a secret so she could go to trial and risk getting the death penalty. Please enlighten us on the real accident.

No, I don't think it was an accident but the DT lied about the real accident so that they could make up an imaginary accident. I didn't say that. What I said was that it had occurred to me long before the trial that Caylee died in some accidental or unintentional way. Drowning hadn't occurred to me, and while I think her death was accidental I didn't find the drowning story all that believeable.

I wasn't there and don't know what the 'real' accident was; I can imagine a number of different scenarios, though. I'll leave it at that <modsnip>

Where does the duct tape fit in? Keeping in mind the foreman, who saw the tape on her skull, said it was in the mouth nose area and it had been there a long time.

As I said, it doesn't for me. It doesn't prove anything to me.

BBM - The jury had the chance to look at the evidence. They could have called for read backs of testimony but they didn't. They took little to no notes which is completely unacceptable in a murder trial. LDB told them they would get to read FCA's statement in the jury room (they didn't). They didn't even ask for the basics like the ME's report or FCA's written statement. If the jury had done what most of us here at websleuths did, which is read the actual evidence I think there would have been at least a hung jury.

Some judges don't allow juries to take notes. Some juries don't need read-backs. I didn't have any questions when the case went to the jury myself.

Looking forward to hearing your accident theory.

I think I've said all I need to about that.

 

[runsdeep]

IIRC Dr. Vass said that the shockingly high levels of chloroform were way too high to have come from a decomposing body. That is not to say, that there was not a dead body decomposing in the trunk, it just means that there is no way that a decomposing body could have caused the chloroform levels to be that high. The high levels of chloroform had to be caused from something else.

you prompted my memory a bit here. if i have any critique at all about the prosecution's case, even though i believe the totality of evidence points to casey killing her--i am hazy about what they wanted to convey regarding the chemical evidence and placements of the body.

 

[jaleigh]

I spoke about 'believe' because you had used that in your previous post.



No, I don't think it was an accident but the DT lied about the real accident so that they could make up an imaginary accident. I didn't say that. What I said was that it had occurred to me long before the trial that Caylee died in .....

Snipped for space

Duct tape found around a dead child's head, nose and mouth/jaw doesn't mean anything?:shakehead:

What ? Did it fall onto the child after she was killed imo and thrown into trash bags before being tossed in the swamp?

mo

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I understand your opinion regarding the chloroform. I would not convict on that evidence alone.

The prosecution had a mountain of evidence against FCA. I'm sure someone could pick apart every single piece but it's the entirety of evidence that points to FCA.

I believe BARD:

- The duct tape was the murder weapon and FCA suffocated Caylee. Her skull was found with three long layers of duct tape over her mouth and nose wrapped into her hair. The duct tape was rare and it came from the A home. Keeping in mind, Caylee's body would have been completely skeletonized within 2-3 weeks. The tape held her mandible in place. Someone (RK) did not come along months later, rummage through the swampy area to find her mandible, duct tape her mandible & skull together, then return it to the scene like the defense ME said. The Whitney laundry basket came from a set of two. The other one was at the A home. Caylee's Pooh blanket, found at the scene, was from the A home.

- Caylee's deceased body was in the trunk of FCA's car for at least two days. Two cadaver dogs hit in the trunk. Many people who knew the smell of death said that's exactly what the car smelled like. Dr. Vass opened a can with a small carpet sample and jumped back because the stench of death was so strong. Casey sent a text message about the smell of a dead squirrel in the car. Caylee's hair with a death band was found in the car. Cindy even said it smells like there's been a damn dead body in the car because there was one.

- FCA abandoned her smelly car within walking distance of a gas station. She also left it next to a dumpster behind the Amscot to mask the smell. Tony offered to take a look at the car but FCA said no, her father would take care of it (lie of course). She didn't want him to get a whiff of the car.

- 31 days! Listening to the lies rolling off her tongue one after the other at Universal. She even stated she talked to her dead daughter the day before. The detectives gave her chance after chance to say it was an accident but she was sticking to the Zanny the Nanny did it.

- The videos of her shopping and what she bought. This was no grieving mother distraught over the accidental death of her daughter.

- The blockbuster video of of a happy FCA while her dead daughter was in the trunk.

- Every single person she came in contact with during those 31 days said she acted fine.

- The jail house videos when she said all they care about is finding Caylee and give me Tony's number. She couldn't care less about Caylee.

Basically follow the body. FCA--> FCA's car-->dumped like trash in a swamp down the street from her home. FCA goes on with her new happy childless life. She was hiding out from her family because they were the ones that insisted on seeing Caylee.

IMO

In his interview with GVS, CM said " there was no duct tape on the remains except for part of the hair matt on the lower right side. The other duct tape, piece number 3, was found 8 or 9 feet away."

I am aware of one cadaver dog, Gerus that did alert on the trunk, but I am unaware of a second dog alerting on the trunk. Two cadaver dogs did alert near the same area in the A's backyard, then the following day, these same two dogs did not alert in the A's backyard in the same area.

I do understand the belief the verdict was wrong, for all the reasons stated in the post quoted. Many of the posters on this site totally agree with these beliefs. I don't.

My post #249 in this thread explains why I believe this verdict was right.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[runsdeep]

In his interview with GVS, CM said " there was no duct tape on the remains except for part of the hair matt on the lower right side. The other duct tape, piece number 3, was found 8 or 9 feet away."

I am aware of one cadaver dog, Gerus that did alert on the trunk, but I am unaware of a second dog alerting on the trunk. Two cadaver dogs did alert near the same area in the A's backyard, then the following day, these same two dogs did not alert in the A's backyard in the same area.

I do understand the belief the verdict was wrong, for all the reasons stated in the post quoted. Many of the posters on this site totally agree with these beliefs. I don't.

My post #249 in this thread explains why I believe this verdict was right.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

gerus went to the car and to the back yard, on different days i think. bones only went to the yard. i dont recall any mention of a second day of the dogs in the yard. the dogs alerted in a spot in a corner of grass around a pot, one handler circled a larger area than the other handler.

 

[runsdeep]

In his interview with GVS, CM said " there was no duct tape on the remains except for part of the hair matt on the lower right side. The other duct tape, piece number 3, was found 8 or 9 feet away."

I am aware of one cadaver dog, Gerus that did alert on the trunk, but I am unaware of a second dog alerting on the trunk. Two cadaver dogs did alert near the same area in the A's backyard, then the following day, these same two dogs did not alert in the A's backyard in the same area.

I do understand the belief the verdict was wrong, for all the reasons stated in the post quoted. Many of the posters on this site totally agree with these beliefs. I don't.

My post #249 in this thread explains why I believe this verdict was right.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

have any of you seen the pic of the skull as found that is not scrambled pixels? i wonder if it is as compelling as ashton thought it was.

 

[com n sense]

In his interview with GVS, CM said " there was no duct tape on the remains except for part of the hair matt on the lower right side. The other duct tape, piece number 3, was found 8 or 9 feet away."

I am aware of one cadaver dog, Gerus that did alert on the trunk, but I am unaware of a second dog alerting on the trunk. Two cadaver dogs did alert near the same area in the A's backyard, then the following day, these same two dogs did not alert in the A's backyard in the same area.

I do understand the belief the verdict was wrong, for all the reasons stated in the post quoted. Many of the posters on this site totally agree with these beliefs. I don't.

My post #249 in this thread explains why I believe this verdict was right.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

I'm sure there were 3 pieces of duct tape across Caylees face holding her jaw in place. The fourth piece ( which I believe bound her tiny wrists) was found a few feet away. I don't believe anything the defence says. They all lie.
One dog did hit on the trunk & 2 dogs hit in the yard.
They then scaped the dirt in the yard taking a layer off. This is what they always do when a dog hits on decomp.
It is routine they scrape a layer off & let the dogs come back. If the dogs hit again that tells them the body is buried. If the dogs don't hit a second time it indicates a body was placed there but not buried.

 

[February]

i will never ever agree on the verdict - and i do believe that karma is going to BITE not just to Casey Anthony but to all people who knows the truth and yet they tried to push forward on winning instead of allowing justice for the little girl's life.

 

[Peepers]

Hopefully Karma will bite KC
Im quite sure she is responsible for poor little Caylees demise.
I dont necessarily agree with the verdict, but I can see why they came to this conclusion.
To this day we do not know her cause of death.
It seems like some people are getting confused and thinking that those of us who can see why the jury came up with this verdict , think KC is innocent. Thats not the case.
I have read pages and pages and pages of this topic. I personally am not going to debate the details, just saying I can see why they came to this conclusion.

 

[jaleigh]

A huge thanks for not debating.

Some things can only be said in so many ways and so many times.

 

[jon_burrows]

In his interview with GVS, CM said " there was no duct tape on the remains except for part of the hair matt on the lower right side. The other duct tape, piece number 3, was found 8 or 9 feet away."

I am aware of one cadaver dog, Gerus that did alert on the trunk, but I am unaware of a second dog alerting on the trunk. Two cadaver dogs did alert near the same area in the A's backyard, then the following day, these same two dogs did not alert in the A's backyard in the same area.

I do understand the belief the verdict was wrong, for all the reasons stated in the post quoted. Many of the posters on this site totally agree with these beliefs. I don't.

My post #249 in this thread explains why I believe this verdict was right.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Snipped from the foreman interview:

VAN SUSTEREN: Was the duct tape on the skull or was it adjacent to the skull?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was -- as far as on the skull, there was one area where it was connected, and that dealt with more the hair. It was not on actually a part of the bone. But it was right there in the vicinity of the nasal cavity and where the mouth would be.


IMO

​

 

[2goldfish]

have any of you seen the pic of the skull as found that is not scrambled pixels? i wonder if it is as compelling as ashton thought it was.

respectfully, I dont see how three strips of decaying duct tape on the nose-mouth area of a decomposed skull of a dead toddler could ever not be "compelling"

 

[LambChop]

In his interview with GVS, CM said " there was no duct tape on the remains except for part of the hair matt on the lower right side. The other duct tape, piece number 3, was found 8 or 9 feet away."
I am aware of one cadaver dog, Gerus that did alert on the trunk, but I am unaware of a second dog alerting on the trunk. Two cadaver dogs did alert near the same area in the A's backyard, then the following day, these same two dogs did not alert in the A's backyard in the same area.

I do understand the belief the verdict was wrong, for all the reasons stated in the post quoted. Many of the posters on this site totally agree with these beliefs. I don't.

My post #249 in this thread explains why I believe this verdict was right.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

CM has misspoken about a lot of the facts of this case. Three pieces of duct tape were found on Caylee's skull.....a fourth piece was found 8 to 9 foot away with the skeletal remains. This piece is believed to have been used for her arms/hands area because of the bones it was found with.

I wonder if CM has memory problems because he often gets things wrong, or if it is by design because he can use his age as an excuse. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

I spoke about 'believe' because you had used that in your previous post.



No, I don't think it was an accident but the DT lied about the real accident so that they could make up an imaginary accident. I didn't say that. What I said was that it had occurred to me long before the trial that Caylee died in some accidental or unintentional way. Drowning hadn't occurred to me, and while I think her death was accidental I didn't find the drowning story all that believeable.

I wasn't there and don't know what the 'real' accident was; I can imagine a number of different scenarios, though. I'll leave it at that <modsnip>



As I said, it doesn't for me. It doesn't prove anything to me.



Some judges don't allow juries to take notes. Some juries don't need read-backs. I didn't have any questions when the case went to the jury myself.



I think I've said all I need to about that.

BBM with respect

I've been following along with your comments and now want to comment on your post as I've bolded.

I think all of us who worked hard at this case to absorb the evidence and the hearings before the trial also considered whether or not this was an accident in the beginning.

But it was the sheer weight of the evidence that convinced me it was not and couldn't possibly be.
Looking at the evidence and the facts of the case:

#1. Why not report an accident? Was FCA afraid of someone or something? I thought perhaps she was afraid of her parents reactions until I saw the jailhouse tapes and watched her total disrespect for her parents and her parents feelings.
#2. Why did FCA appear happier to have her freedom than she did with motherhood? She partied for 31 days, without having to find a babysitter, without ever mentioning her child unless asked, by saying Caylee was with a Nanny no one had met or could find, by getting a tattoo to celebrate a beautiful life after her child was gone, and by asking for just one more day convinced me she was in fact happier without Caylee.
#3. Why abandon her car at that location beside a dumpster? Why not call George or a friend or take it to have it cleaned when it started to smell? Why not ask for help? If it ran out of gas, why not just have a friend bring gas, as she usually did? Once the remains of decomp, the smell and the chloroform were brought out at the hearings and in evidence - convinced me there was a real reason for abandoning the car. I believe she hoped it would be stolen.
#4. Why sit in jail for three years for an accident? There is no penalty for the accidental death of a child. Did FCA value her own life so little she would sit in a jail cell for three long years if this was an accident? This makes no sense.
#5. Was something mentally wrong with FCA? I kept thinking a professional would come up with a reason why FCA didn't report an accident or why she committed this crime. While many professionals examined her, the best they could come up with was "she was "immature".
#6. If FCA was innocent, why did her parents do everything they could to subvert justice? Why did they lie, why were they so aggressive to those who wanted to help find Caylee? Why did they never actually search for Caylee themselves? Why in the face of circumstantial evidence are they still looking for excuses for why FCA did not do this crime deliberately?
#7. Why if she is innocent has she never spoken in her own defense?
#8. Since we can find no evidence that this was an accident, and if as defenders claim, FCA did not commit this crime - who did? Why is no one searching for the guilty party?

Too many unanswered questions make it clear there is only one answer to all the questions. This was no accident. It's not logical. There is absolutely no supporting evidence to even suggest there was and overwhelming evidence to suggest it was not. And only one person who last had custody of Caylee.
Very simple reasoning. IMO.

When the unbelievable has been ruled out, only the believable remains.

 

[jon_burrows]

is there a thread about theories on the timeline and how it may have played out?

Hope this helps:

http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days.htm

 

[NotRocketSighence]

convinced me there was a real reason for abandoning the car. I believe she hoped it would be stolen.

Except you don't leave a car empty of gas if you hope it will be stolen.

 

[logicalgirl]

Except you don't leave a car empty of gas if you hope it will be stolen.

Did she know there was no gas in the car? The gas gauge was broken, was it not?