The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[sacrablue]

Well, since this is a different question...

If I were an outside person looking in, not hearing any of the details it would appear that Casey benefited the most at the time of her death. But, knowing some of the details that I know now, I don't think anyone in this case benefited at the time of Caylee's death.

If we're going to talk after Caylee's death, then the answer I posted above would be my answer.

Ok, Caylee's body was wrapped with blanket and put in garbage bags that were put in a linen carrier. How was this transported to final resting place in the 'swamp'?

 

[Baznme]

I could believe that if it appeared they were wearing warmer clothing. IIRC (I haven't seen the video in weeks now), Caylee was wearing long sleeves. IMO, long sleeves on a sunny day probably means it's a lot cooler temperature wise. So, why would you want a child getting wet on a cooler day unless you had an indoor pool?



I agree on the reports (I saw the emails from LE about this incident), but that doesn't mean that Casey didn't learn afterwards of where Caylee was. There was a lot of code speak between the A's during those jailhouse interviews, and Casey had already been released to the home and returned to jail before they found Caylee, so who's to say she didn't learn after the fact where Caylee was laid to rest?



I don't believe that arrogance was part of his personality just because the way CA handled the family. She seemed to be a "take charge" kind of lady and GA seemed to cower to her. If he was consistently defensive, then I might believe that was just how he behaved normally; but I don't recall seeing him like that during any other moments besides when he was backed into a corner. If you listen to his early LE interviews, you can just hear it in his voice how cowardly he seems. He acts so innocent bringing all this information to them, IMO "playing" like he's just an innocent bystander in the whole thing. IMO, this was an accident that turned bad, and he did everything in his power to maintain the position he currently held in his family. He acted, IMO, like someone who wanted to keep the secrets secret.



BBM. I thought the chloroform was found in air samples and carpet samples. Was I wrong? Also, in my original post, I stated I "think" CA cleaned the car out. It was established way before that post that CA isn't admitting to cleaning the car out, just using a bottle of febreeze on it and placing dryer sheets in it. I just don't believe that Casey Anthony would make chloroform to kill her daughter when there is a lot more easy ways to do it. Her mom is a nurse, I'm sure Casey knows there are OTC meds you can take that will kill you. Why not just do it that way since apparently her plan was to cover it up anyways? Using OTC meds would've probably been cheaper anyways, or you could just steal it from your local pharmacy and no one would know any different.



I believe D Casey was looking for a payday just like everyone else involved in this case, that's why he video taped it. But I do recommend watching the video after reading/hearing RK's 911 calls, and compare that to the crime scene photos. It looks eerily similar to the crime scene area.... too similar if you ask me.



I do agree that both PT and DT made mistakes, but I don't agree the jury did. But, that's MOO.

Thank you for a respectful reply! :seeya:

You're welcome! But, I cannot reach that far to agree with you. Being a parent myself, I cannot conceive of throwing one of MY children to the wolves to save my own rear. The buddy buddy thing you saw with GA and LE is the "blue shield" comradery. The area you see in the D. Casey video is close but not the same exact area. Believe me when I tell you, it's on the same street but a ways away from where they found Caylee. There might have been other ways to harm Caylee, but the fact is they did find chloroform in the trunk of that car. The carpet sample emitted the remnants of it INTO the AIR. The sample in the can is probably still doing the same thing as we speak. To totally dismiss this finding is really pushing the truth further away than it needs to be. The how she made it and how it was administered, where it was kept, etc., etc. does not diminish the claim that it was there. Science and cadaver dogs don't lie. It's not my life long quest to convince you, simply to voice my opinion as to why I feel the jury either got it right or wrong. If you feel they were right, maybe you could ask yourself this. Would you let FCA babysit your kids?

 

[Little Black Dress]

Regarding the "accident" IMO - there is no rational explanation for placing duct tape on the face of a child, bagging that child in three separate bags, driving around with the bagged child in your trunk, if this was an accidental death. The "Huck" case, established a precedent in Supreme Court that there is no reason to place tape on the face of an individual except to prevent that person from breathing.

Re: the trunk of the car and CA cleaning it. One of the CSI's - the one who also had experience with more than 30's bodies/decomp in another country, testified the trunk was not particularly clean when he examined it and clearly had not been cleaned.

It is my understanding that it was determined in court, by the use of maps, that D.Casey and Hoover were not searching in the exact area that Caylee's remains were found. After all, if Kronk was accused of being involved in Caylee's disposal, why not D.Casey? D.Casey seemed to clearly know what he was looking for when he was slashing black garbage bags, while Kronk only had an idea of what he would find. To me it appeared the DT knew exactly why he was there, because they did not investigate him like Kronk.

Bolding mine.

Agreed.

That phrase, 'driving around with the bagged child in your trunk' is a clear indicator to me that Mr. Anthony had nothing to do with the disposal of the body, and thus not involved in any kind of coverup, as some have suggested in this discussion. If he had been involved in some kind of cover up, I think he'd be interested in getting rid of the body as quickly as possible, that is, not leaving it in the trunk of a car long enough for it to do any kind of decomposing, and he would likely have known how long that would have taken, considering his LE background. I also don't believe he would have ever disposed of the body anywhere near their home. If they (he and his daughter) were going with a 'kidnapping' story, it would have made a lot more sense to drop the body far from home. I also don't think Mr. Anthony would have risked having his neighbors seeing him pull up to those woods and drop the body, no matter what time of day or night. I just don't see it happening, and those are only a few reasons that I feel this way.

On the other hand, I can easily see a young, inexperienced, naive (to some degree), perhaps panicky Ms. Anthony 'driving around with the bagged child in the trunk', trying like mad to figure out what to do with the body. Heck, she seems to have contemplated burying it in her own family's backyard at one point, so I can understand she may have been having trouble deciding what to do with her body. She probably decided that Caylee would at some point be found if she buried her at home, and doing that wouldn't support any kidnapping story she may have already begun formulating in her mind, and so finally deciding to drop her in a wooded area with which she was familiar, probably in the middle of the night, when she'd be less likely to have been seen by anyone, too naive to understand that having Caylee so close to home wouldn't be in line with her kidnapping story...a simple mistake on her part, so to speak. And didn't I read somewhere here that murdering mothers tend to dispose of their children's bodies relatively close to home? Makes sense to me.

JMO.

 

[yolorado]

Sure - all those ten professionals who knew from past experience what human decomp smells like, including the dog handlers came into court and lied about the smell of human decomp in the trunk of FCA's car....just because...

And KC abandoned her car after texting her friend it smelled like death, but it didn't really smell? Why did KC abandon the car then?

Pretty clear that she abandoned the car because SHE smelled it, and it smelled so badly that she stand it any more.

 

[logicalgirl]

Bolding mine.

Agreed.

That phrase, 'driving around with the bagged child in your trunk' is a clear indicator to me that Mr. Anthony had nothing to do with the disposal of the body, and thus not involved in any kind of coverup, as some have suggested in this discussion. If he had been involved in some kind of cover up, I think he'd be interested in getting rid of the body as quickly as possible, that is, not leaving it in the trunk of a car long enough for it to do any kind of decomposing, and he would likely have known how long that would have taken, considering his LE background. I also don't believe he would have ever disposed of the body anywhere near their home. If they (he and his daughter) were going with a 'kidnapping' story, it would have made a lot more sense to drop the body far from home. I also don't think Mr. Anthony would have risked having his neighbors seeing him pull up to those woods and drop the body, no matter what time of day or night. I just don't see it happening, and those are only a few reasons that I feel this way.

On the other hand, I can easily see a young, inexperienced, naive (to some degree), perhaps panicky Ms. Anthony 'driving around with the bagged child in the trunk', trying like mad to figure out what to do with the body. Heck, she seems to have contemplated burying it in her own family's backyard at one point, so I can understand she may have been having trouble deciding what to do with her body. She probably decided that Caylee would at some point be found if she buried her at home, and doing that wouldn't support any kidnapping story she may have already begun formulating in her mind, and so finally deciding to drop her in a wooded area with which she was familiar, probably in the middle of the night, when she'd be less likely to have been seen by anyone, too naive to understand that having Caylee so close to home wouldn't be in line with her kidnapping story...a simple mistake on her part, so to speak. And didn't I read somewhere here that murdering mothers tend to dispose of their children's bodies relatively close to home? Makes sense to me.


JMO.

Yes, while I doubt the word "naive" would ever work for me - this is a gal that isn't into details and forgot to check out what the stats say about mother's who kill their children and placing them close to home....if she'd done her homework she would have known better. And George as a former LE would have known those details - heck I know those details...

 

[logicalgirl]

And KC abandoned her car after texting her friend it smelled like death, but it didn't really smell? Why did KC abandon the car then?

Well it was out of gas! Yes, I know - there is some question about whether or not it actually was, but FCA hated that car, so she parked it next to a dumpster instead of getting someone to get her some more gas, she wanted her parents to buy her a new one....and since Caylee had been kidnapped she wouldn't be needing her baby doll or her car seat any time soon so....blah blah blah!

 

[Sustained]

And KC abandoned her car after texting her friend it smelled like death, but it didn't really smell? Why did KC abandon the car then?

Because it had a bag of garbage in it and she didn't want to get caught stealing garbage from TL's apartment ...

 

[beccalecca1]

Ok, Caylee's body was wrapped with blanket and put in garbage bags that were put in a linen carrier. How was this transported to final resting place in the 'swamp'?

Honestly, I can't determine that. Obviously it happened, but I can't determine how with all the conflicting testimonies and evidence.

 

[yolorado]

Well it was out of gas! Yes, I know - there is some question about whether or not it actually was, but FCA hated that car, so she parked it next to a dumpster instead of getting someone to get her some more gas, she wanted her parents to buy her a new one....and since Caylee had been kidnapped she wouldn't be needing her baby doll or her car seat any time soon so....blah blah blah!

Good point and the death smell could only help. Not only is baby kidnapped but the car smells like someone drove around with her in the trunk. How could that not net KC a new car!?

 

[beccalecca1]

You're welcome! But, I cannot reach that far to agree with you. Being a parent myself, I cannot conceive of throwing one of MY children to the wolves to save my own rear. The buddy buddy thing you saw with GA and LE is the "blue shield" comradery. The area you see in the D. Casey video is close but not the same exact area. Believe me when I tell you, it's on the same street but a ways away from where they found Caylee. There might have been other ways to harm Caylee, but the fact is they did find chloroform in the trunk of that car. The carpet sample emitted the remnants of it INTO the AIR. The sample in the can is probably still doing the same thing as we speak. To totally dismiss this finding is really pushing the truth further away than it needs to be. The how she made it and how it was administered, where it was kept, etc., etc. does not diminish the claim that it was there. Science and cadaver dogs don't lie. It's not my life long quest to convince you, simply to voice my opinion as to why I feel the jury either got it right or wrong. If you feel they were right, maybe you could ask yourself this. Would you let FCA babysit your kids?

BBM

I've previously answered this.

I stated that I would not let Casey Anthony watch my kids because not only do I not know her, my kids do not either. And, I further replied with me not allowing many people watch my kids at all, even some family members. The only people I have ever let watch my kids are my parents, my sister, their 2 aunts on the other side of the family, and a daycare provider who is licensed by the state and CPR certified.

I have a married brother who has never watched my kids, his wife has never watched my kids, their other grandparents have never watched my kids, and they have 3 other aunts and 1 uncle who have never watched my kids. I also have numerous friends who have never watched my kids. So, me saying Casey Anthony, who lives across the country from me, wouldn't be allowed to watch my kids isn't saying much really.

 

[yolorado]

Because it had a bag of garbage in it and she didn't want to get caught stealing garbage from TL's apartment ...

ABSOLUTELY! She probably figured it was just a matter of time before she got caught for stealing from Grandma and/or Amy so she didn't want the stolen trash pinned on her too. She probably didn't think she could get the cops to believe what she told Amy, that the smell was death, not trash. So hard being a victim when you're also a thief and baby killer in FL.

 

[EPfan]

1st degree premeditated murder is a DP worthy consideration.

Casey planned to murder her child. imo.

You believe that KC planned to murder Caylee, premeditated. Let me ask you this. Did you think, since the prosecution said KC was intelligent, very smart that she would have planned this out, premeditated murder, but forgot one important thing, how and where to dispose of the body? This the is clue that she didn't premeditate. I believe she panicked and didn't know what to do and when it came down to it had to do something fast. This why I believe they charged her wrong and should have charged her with involuntary manslaughter, or some lesser charger than the premeditated murder. The crime KC was charged with just didn't fit the evidence.

 

[Italy]

There is the account of the friend in jail who told her own lawyer (who then reported it to the investigative people) that Casey had told her that the remains of Caylee had been found wrapped in a baby blanket and black trash bags.

Casey told her this shortly after the chaplain informed her that the remains found were Caylee's. However, at the time, the chaplain himself had not known and had not informed Ms. Anthony that the remains were found wrapped in the blanket and trash bags.

Unfortunately the written correspondence between Casey and her jail friends was mostly destroyed. Though I sincerely doubt this would have impacted this jury, I wish the special exemptions to the hearsay rule would have been used to allow this testimony.

 

[coco puff]

The DT just wanted to speak with him, they weren't saying he had any involvement. But, because the trial became a public circus, theories were spinning from JB mentioning he wanted to depose him. Vasco Thompson is who you're referring to. And, JB has every right to want to find him since he thought at the time the phone numbers matched up. He soon found out they didn't and left that alone, respectfully. I don't see what the problem with that is.

The problem is that Jose told us in opening statements what happened to Caylee. Why cloud the issue with irrelevant information? Of course the defense really had no clue what happened to Caylee according to their closing statements. Which is a real problem when they claim it was an accident and put their client at the scene.

 

[Italy]

Would you let FCA babysit your kids?

Not only would I not let FCA babysit kids, I wouldn't allow any member of the jury to babysit kids.

Seemingly it is considered acceptable to fail to call 911 or seek other help following a serious accident. I wouldn't want anyone of this mindset even watching their own children, much less others.

 

[EPfan]

There was evidence that Caylee was standing with her hand on the handle of a door that was open a little bit, however, since it was a still photo we do not know if she had opened that door or even could open that door on her own.

There was evidence that Caylee could climb the pool ladder with her life vest on with Cindy behind her "helping" her, however, there was no evidence that Caylee could put the life vest on by herself or that she could/would climb the pool ladder by herself.

Cindy testified that Caylee would be able to climb the ladder by herself.

Children are, and I use this term only because at the moment I can't think of a better phrase to explain it the way I would like to, creatures of habit. If a child takes a nap at a certain time for any number of days they will take a nap at that same time as long as they still take naps. Caylee's habit concerning the pool was that she must have her life vest on, she must go up the pool ladder with help, she must wait at the top of the pool ladder for an adult to be in the pool before Caylee jumped in. So IMO that evidence that the DT presented that Caylee drowned was nothing more than photos of Caylee enjoying the pool with her grandmother and Caylee imitating adults by placing her hand on the handle of an already open sliding glass door.

I disagree with you about the life jacket. We previously lived on the ocean and had a deck on the water and you could walked down stairs and get directly into the ocean. We had to keep a very close eye on our granddaughter because she would get excited when we unlocked the deck doors and she would run out and start down the stairs, knowing she always had to put on her life-jacket. We started keeping the life jacket right by the deck doors and she had to put in on before she went outside, even if she was going out front to play. We made it a rule. Children that small don't stop and think, Oh I've got to put on my life jacket before I go swimming, I just don't think that happens, if it did I don't believe there would be as high a percentage of accidental drownings.
MOO

This my opinion with respect to you.

 

[logicalgirl]

You believe that KC planned to murder Caylee, premeditated. Let me ask you this. Did you think, since the prosecution said KC was intelligent, very smart that she would have planned this out, premeditated murder, but forgot one important thing, how and where to dispose of the body? This the is clue that she didn't premeditate. I believe she panicked and didn't know what to do and when it came down to it had to do something fast. This why I believe they charged her wrong and should have charged her with involuntary manslaughter, or some lesser charger than the premeditated murder. The crime KC was charged with just didn't fit the evidence.

Premeditation can be determined in the blink of an eye. The time it takes to fire a gun. It took more than that time to cut and place three (or four) strips of duct tape on the child's face. And since it had been determined by the previous Supreme Court decision in the Huck case that the only reason an individual would place duct tape over a person's mouth and nose was to prevent them from breathing, and since we know duct tape does not stick to anything damp, it shows cause for a premeditation charge.

IMO, the disposal part was included in the cruel and heinous part also.

 

[amysmom]

Some of this 'stuff' I'm reading in this thread?

No offense to anyone in particular but that's the TRUTH as I see it..And I've seen it all from July 16, 2008 til that insane verdict July 5, 2011.

Speaking of the TRUTH! where was it? Clearly MIA! When the defense team is allowed to make outrageous claims with nothing to back it up that's not a search for the TRUTH in any way, shape, or form.

I saw the same thing in the OJ trial..Mark Furhman=George Anthony..Just pick someone the jury MAY believe was involved='reasonable doubt'..Not legally "beyond a shadow of a doubt" btw! And both juries fell for it..Obviously, some others did too..To heck with what's presented as testimony up on the witness stand & under oath..Just pay no mind to all the real evidence! :banghead:

That's exactly what happened in both trials without a (reasonable!) doubt! imho

eta..What truly made this case so infamous was the FACT the mother of a 2 yr old didn't report her missing for '31 days!'..That's shocking & very damning evidence against her..Yet! The jury failed to even consider any of it..That's what was told to us..Forget the FACT she was partying & participating in 'hot body' contests..Forget the FACT she appeared to all that saw her to never, ever, appear to be concerned or worried..Forget the FACT she wouldn't have reported her at all IF she wasn't found & busted by CA..Forget the FACT she lied&lied&lied about everything during that time, prior to that time, & after she got caught..The only TRUE thing she said was her name in court ..I could go on&on but it's all way too frustrating!

 

[sacrablue]

Honestly, I can't determine that. Obviously it happened, but I can't determine how with all the conflicting testimonies and evidence.

Do you believe the smell of human decomp...scratch that. Have you ever smelled a dead animal,say larger than a cat, that has been or is in the sun and in late phases of decomp on a day where the air temps are over 90 degrees?

 

[beccalecca1]

Do you believe the smell of human decomp...scratch that. Have you ever smelled a dead animal,say larger than a cat, that has been or is in the sun and in late phases of decomp on a day where the air temps are over 90 degrees?

No, not that I can recall. But, I don't live in FL, I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan (near Canada) so we rarely have a consistent temperature of over 90 degrees.