The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[logicalgirl]

Good point and the death smell could only help. Not only is baby kidnapped but the car smells like someone drove around with her in the trunk. How could that not net KC a new car!?

Yes, that was really George's fault! Clearly it was he who put the bagged remains in FCA's trunk, and if he'd made better arrangements with Kronk, he wouldn't have had to keep sneaking over to Tony L.s apartment during the dead of night, while FCA was "at play" to take her car and drive around aimlessly for days to find Kronk, so he could lend Kronk drive the car to the Suburban area, dispose of the body in a location known only to Kronk, then quietly sneak the car back and park it in the same place where the unsuspecting and completely innocent FCA would find it and continue to drive it around for a few more days.

So after all of that, of course George should have bought FCA a new car!

 

[amysmom]

Premeditation can be determined in the blink of an eye. The time it takes to fire a gun. It took more than that time to cut and place three (or four) strips of duct tape on the child's face. And since it had been determined by the previous Supreme Court decision in the Huck case that the only reason an individual would place duct tape over a person's mouth and nose was to prevent them from breathing, and since we know duct tape does not stick to anything damp, it shows cause for a premeditation charge.

IMO, the disposal part was included in the cruel and heinous part also.

What's so cruel and heinous bout dumping a CHILD in a swamp so she could rot & be torn apart by wild animals? She was already DEAD!=No Big Deal!

Get with it LOGICAL-GIRL! Geesh! :seeya:

 

[EPfan]

Premeditation can be determined in the blink of an eye. The time it takes to fire a gun. It took more than that time to cut and place three (or four) strips of duct tape on the child's face. And since it had been determined by the previous Supreme Court decision in the Huck case that the only reason an individual would place duct tape over a person's mouth and nose was to prevent them from breathing, and since we know duct tape does not stick to anything damp, it shows cause for a premeditation charge.

IMO, the disposal part was included in the cruel and heinous part also.

The prosecutions interpretation of premeditation in this case, was an intelligent planned murder, (by a young party girl, not even someone who graduated from high school) looking up chloroform on the intranet 84 times to learn how how to make it, making the chloroform. (magically I guess because it wasn't proven. (they dropped that like a hot cake about 84,84,84 times)

As far as the duck tape goes, in evidence, it wasn't and can't be proven when and if it was place on the nose and face. This is a theory that wasn't proven. Now I would agree that if they had found dna, or any believable beyond a reasonable doubt evidence presented that this was placed on the face and nose before death, then you would have the murder weapon. That didn't happen.

 

[beccalecca1]

Would smelling one of the 'cans' that reeked of decomp have made a diff to you? Somehow I think not & the same goes for the jury. <sigh>

Honestly, if/when I have experience in human decomp it would've absolutely made a difference to me.

If they had a smell of trash that's been stored in the trunk of a car for weeks in the FL heat, animal decomp that's been in the same conditions, and human decomp all together to figure out what the can smelled most like, it would've been easy for any person to figure it out.

Or, even if they had the chemical breakdowns of each above it would've been easy to see.

But, they didn't. What they had was conflicting testimonies and evidence of what it really was.

 

[jandkmom]

You believe that KC planned to murder Caylee, premeditated. Let me ask you this. Did you think, since the prosecution said KC was intelligent, very smart that she would have planned this out, premeditated murder, but forgot one important thing, how and where to dispose of the body? This the is clue that she didn't premeditate. I believe she panicked and didn't know what to do and when it came down to it had to do something fast. This why I believe they charged her wrong and should have charged her with involuntary manslaughter, or some lesser charger than the premeditated murder. The crime KC was charged with just didn't fit the evidence.

I believe that where Caylee ended up was not where KC planned on putting her, but when the gas can incident happened, KC decided that she need to get rid of Caylee fast before someone found her in the trunk; and then she thought of the swampy area where there was a lot of trash and her pets had been buried...it was an area of convenience.

 

[EPfan]

I believe that where Caylee ended up was not where KC planned on putting her, but when the gas can incident happened, KC decided that she need to get rid of Caylee fast before someone found her in the trunk; and then she thought of the swampy area where there was a lot of trash and her pets had been buried...it was an area of convenience.

If KC had planned this, premeditated murder, then Caylee wouldn't have been in the trunk when the gas can incident occurred. She wouldn't have let a little ole gas can get in her way.

 

[amysmom]

As far as the duck tape goes, in evidence, it wasn't and can't be proven when and if it was place on the nose and face. This is a theory that wasn't proven. Now I would agree that if they had found dna, or any believable beyond a reasonable doubt evidence presented that this was placed on the face and nose before death, then you would have the murder weapon. That didn't happen.

s&bbm

The evidence showed it had to be placed on her face or the mandible would not have still, even after 6 months, been held in place..So, when do you think it was placed there & why?

eta..how would dna prove WHEN the tape was placed there? :waitasec:

 

[jandkmom]

The prosecutions interpretation of premeditation in this case, was an intelligent planned murder, (by a young party girl, not even someone who graduated from high school) looking up chloroform on the intranet 84 times to learn how how to make it, making the chloroform. (magically I guess because it wasn't proven. (they dropped that like a hot cake about 84,84,84 times)

As far as the duck tape goes, in evidence, it wasn't and can't be proven when and if it was place on the nose and face. This is a theory that wasn't proven. Now I would agree that if they had found dna, or any believable beyond a reasonable doubt evidence presented that this was placed on the face and nose before death, then you would have the murder weapon. That didn't happen.

The duct tape was entwined in her hair...what do you think it was there for? Go look at the graphic pictures from the trial. I tried to link the, but it wouldn't....I don't understand who else people think could have done this. KC is the only person with motive, opportunity, and all the evidence links back to her in some way.

 

[logicalgirl]

The prosecutions interpretation of premeditation in this case, was an intelligent planned murder, (by a young party girl, not even someone who graduated from high school) looking up chloroform on the intranet 84 times to learn how how to make it, making the chloroform. (magically I guess because it wasn't proven. (they dropped that like a hot cake about 84,84,84 times)

As far as the duck tape goes, in evidence, it wasn't and can't be proven when and if it was place on the nose and face. This is a theory that wasn't proven. Now I would agree that if they had found dna, or any believable beyond a reasonable doubt evidence presented that this was placed on the face and nose before death, then you would have the murder weapon. That didn't happen.

In fact it was. The Scale Mode used at the trial was made from the dimensions of Caylee's skull and amounts of tissue etc., that would have been on the child's face. It is completely illogical to assume the tape was placed on the child's neck or that it attached itself to the childs hair on both sides of her skull somehow in the flood.

So regarding the chloroform, since there is not doubt the carpet was soaked in it, am I to then assume it was just a coincidence FCA happened to have spilled a large amount in the trunk of her car at the same time or shortly before/after the body of her child was placed there?

This trial was not meant to be about wild probabilities, as an excuse for not considering reasonable doubt.

 

[logicalgirl]

If KC had planned this, premeditated murder, then Caylee wouldn't have been in the trunk when the gas can incident occurred. She wouldn't have let a little ole gas can get in her way.

Who said she was? Last time I did a little math, 24 - 16 = 8 (days). The experts testified, and even the DT experts agree, the body was in the trunk 1 - 3 days and was removed in the early stages of decomp.

 

[beccalecca1]

The duct tape was entwined in her hair...what do you think it was there for? Go look at the graphic pictures from the trial. I tried to link the, but it wouldn't....I don't understand who else people think could have done this. KC is the only person with motive, opportunity, and all the evidence links back to her in some way.

Where can you find the pics?

 

[EPfan]

Honestly, if/when I have experience in human decomp it would've absolutely made a difference to me.

If they had a smell of trash that's been stored in the trunk of a car for weeks in the FL heat, animal decomp that's been in the same conditions, and human decomp all together to figure out what the can smelled most like, it would've been easy for any person to figure it out.

Or, even if they had the chemical breakdowns of each above it would've been easy to see.

But, they didn't. What they had was conflicting testimonies and evidence of what it really was.

Let me tell you, that a dead cow can stink for months and I'm talking about laying in the out and open. This smell is so bad and strong that even weeks later you want to throw-up if you get near it. This is why I don't understand no-one calling 911 at the tow place. (esp. George Anthony a trained investigator) GA should have known better than to move the car. I don't understand the tow people either. This just make me think the smell wasn't as strong as I have smelled of a dead cow. JMOO

 

[beccalecca1]

[/B]

In fact it was. The Scale Mode used at the trial was made from the dimensions of Caylee's skull and amounts of tissue etc., that would have been on the child's face. It is completely illogical to assume the tape was placed on the child's neck or that it attached itself to the childs hair on both sides of her skull somehow in the flood.

So regarding the chloroform, since there is not doubt the carpet was soaked in it, am I to then assume it was just a coincidence FCA happened to have spilled a large amount in the trunk of her car at the same time or shortly before/after the body of her child was placed there?

This trial was not meant to be about wild probabilities, as an excuse for not considering reasonable doubt.

BBM

JMO, but if there's a general discredit to the pictures of Caylee climbing the ladder and the fact that there were no child locks on the doors to the back yard, then in all fairness I believe a photo-shopped video of a super-imposed image should be discredited to. Again, JMO.

 

[EPfan]

Who said she was? Last time I did a little math, 24 - 16 = 8 (days). The experts testified, and even the DT experts agree, the body was in the trunk 1 - 3 days and was removed in the early stages of decomp.

My point is that Caylee wouldn't have been in the truck even 1 day after the murder if it was a premeditation murder committed by intelligent (according to the Prosecution) KC. She would have had where to put the body all planned out and it wouldn't have been in the trunk when the gas can incident occured.

 

[jandkmom]

If KC had planned this, premeditated murder, then Caylee wouldn't have been in the trunk when the gas can incident occurred. She wouldn't have let a little ole gas can get in her way.

If you think it wasn't pre-meditated, then you believe it was an accident? Why would she not have called 911? Why would she use the duct tape? Why would she go the day of Caylee's death and rent movies and spend the night with a guy she hadn't know but a couple of months? Why would she wait until the trial to say it was an accident? Why when she called home to get Tony's number didn't she tell anyone? Why did she say "Surprise, Surprise" when the mention of a drowning was brought up by her mom? Why when the detective offered the scenario of an accidental drowning didn't she cry and say that it was? Why didn't she cry for her dead child?

 

[sacrablue]

No, not that I can recall. But, I don't live in FL, I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan (near Canada) so we rarely have a consistent temperature of over 90 degrees.

If I can help you with this part of the crime that would be a great start.
Of our 5 senses, hearing, sight, touch, smell and taste, which of these senses would you guess is the most deeply encoded in our long term memory?

 

[jandkmom]

Where can you find the pics?

I can't put the website due to TOS, but at your search engine, type in Caylee Anthony graphic evidence photos...they are at several locations. It is heartbreaking.

 

[jandkmom]

BBM

I've previously answered this.

I stated that I would not let Casey Anthony watch my kids because not only do I not know her, my kids do not either. And, I further replied with me not allowing many people watch my kids at all, even some family members. The only people I have ever let watch my kids are my parents, my sister, their 2 aunts on the other side of the family, and a daycare provider who is licensed by the state and CPR certified.

I have a married brother who has never watched my kids, his wife has never watched my kids, their other grandparents have never watched my kids, and they have 3 other aunts and 1 uncle who have never watched my kids. I also have numerous friends who have never watched my kids. So, me saying Casey Anthony, who lives across the country from me, wouldn't be allowed to watch my kids isn't saying much really.

Would you be friends with her? Would you believe what she told you?

 

[Italy]

The prosecutions interpretation of premeditation in this case, was an intelligent planned murder, (by a young party girl, not even someone who graduated from high school) looking up chloroform on the intranet 84 times to learn how how to make it, making the chloroform. (magically I guess because it wasn't proven. (they dropped that like a hot cake about 84,84,84 times)

As far as the duck tape goes, in evidence, it wasn't and can't be proven when and if it was place on the nose and face. This is a theory that wasn't proven. Now I would agree that if they had found dna, or any believable beyond a reasonable doubt evidence presented that this was placed on the face and nose before death, then you would have the murder weapon. That didn't happen.

That is why this case was called a circumstantial evidence case. It wan't an episode on CSI with all the little DNA, fingerprint, smoking gun ends tied into a pretty little bow. But hey, it is so much easier to come up with an alternate theory - completely unsupported by facts in evidence. Accidental drowning? No evidence. Cindy and/or George orchestrated the whole thing? No evidence. Sexual abuse by both George and Lee? No evidence.

I'm surprised that some even believe that Caylee is dead. There was expert testimony that the remains were hers but since all the expert testimony on other evidence was not worth a hill of beans, really how can we be sure? Maybe if it is erroneously claimed that she was identified 84 times and in fact it is only conclusive that she was identified 1 time -- well maybe she isn't dead.

I refer you to the article below which was written by a former FBI Counterintelligence Agent.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ot-so-obvious-lessons-the-casey-anthony-trial


"When jurors expect forensic evidence to be decisive we find that they become intellectually lazy. Rather than engage the problem for hours by looking at what they have, it is easier for them to say, "We wanted more." In most cases there is enough there, it just has to be worked intellectually. Justice requires that no stone be left unturned, that jurors analyze every fact assiduously. It is intellectual laziness to say there wasn't enough."

"It is said that in the Casey Anthony case we should not blame the jurors. I agree - we shouldn't. That is like buying lemmings as pets and then being surprised when they act lemming like. Those jurors were preferred by the defense team for a reason and they performed as expected."

 

[EPfan]

s&bbm

The evidence showed it had to be placed on her face or the mandible would not have still, even after 6 months, been held in place..So, when do you think it was placed there & why?

eta..how would dna prove WHEN the tape was placed there? :waitasec:

DNA, on the duck tape, if it were KC's, would connect her to the tape. If you would believe the prosecutions theory that the tape was the murder weapon. DNA still wouldn't prove when and if the duck tape was applied.

As far as the mandible in place, that is a mystery to me, how it stayed in place threw the hurricane and the flood, not to mention the animal activity, especially with the condition of all the clothes evidence and items in evidence is disturbing. It seems it's supposed to be so delicate.