The Whites Party Photos and also When exactly did JBR die??

[eileenhawkeye]

It sure would be nice if someone who sat on that Grand Jury back in the day would come out and let everyone know what all evidence they were privy to.

I think they would end up in a jail cell if they did that. Even 13 years later, only a few of the GJ members would talk to the media, and weren't even completely clear on what they had indicted the Ramseys on.

 

[Mama2JML]

John used a laundry chute for his dirty clothes. Where the heck did that dump out into? Anyone know?

It's depicted in red, below:

 

[gramcracker]

thank you for the diagram, but I'm still wondering about the alignment. in another thread Meara was asking about the chute :

This is tangential, but does anyone know exactly where the laundry chute is and whether it extends down to the basement? In the clip linked below, at 3:06 you can see a small door in the wall between Patsy's bathroom and the back stairs. Then Bill Kurtis and the investigator walk down the stairs, and at 3:30 you can see a corresponding door in the wall behind them, in the short hall that leads to the playroom.

JonBenet Investigation Part 4 - YouTube

The doors suggest a connecting chute, but one that stops on the second floor, since it wouldn't align well with the ground floor or basement. Not very handy, in other words, but then these were people who forgot to install toilet paper holders, so who knows? At any rate, I've not seen any other possible chute locations in floor plans or pictures. Have any of you? TIA

then I posted (because the laundry cubby doors on the third/fourth floors are near the stairs):

something that I've read makes me remember that the chute did empty into the basement, in that little cubby/closet between the washer/dryer and the stairs (if that helps)
http://crimeshots.com/RamseyFloor.html

in PR's interview a few posts above, it sounds like the family clothing was laundered upstairs and larger items like bedding were laundered in the basement. makes sense to launder clothing and towels upstairs instead of hauling them from the basement to the third/fourth floors. but who knows?

I thought about this recently because of fibers from JR's shirt being found in JB's pubic area. that shirt was new, a Christmas gift that day. the housekeeper said JR was the only one who picked up after himself, so I wondered if he took it off that night and put it in the chute on the fourth floor. I'm still not sure whether the chute empties to the basement or the third floor (the kids' bedroom floor) near the upstairs washer/dryer

 

[Mendara]

Could it be that the laundry room was the location where the molestation occured at night while PR slept? Perhaps the photos were a collection the molestor had for himself in the basement when he was alone down there.

I think the only reason a mother like PR would cover up a crime of this magnitude is if it involved sexual abuse and an embarrassment to their family. I think she caught someone in the act that night and things went from bad to worse.

Will BR ever talk??

MO

 

[pageantmom]

Idk if it was Burke. Not saying it couldn't have been. I have no clue. But I think it is more likely to have been John Ramsey than Burke.

I also want to say that I disagree with others who have said Patsy wouldn't have covered for anyone but John and Burke.
I think she would have covered for John Andrew too. She may not have WANTED to cover for him, but I think ultimately she would have.

Not saying it was John Andrew, either- I have no idea.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

John used a laundry chute for his dirty clothes. Where the heck did that dump out into? Anyone know?

Speaking of the laundry chute, during a TV special about the case, I am pretty sure that either Smit or Tracey or some IDI person said that it was possible that the killer sent JonBenet down it. Anyone else remember that?

 

[pageantmom]

Speaking of the laundry chute, during a TV special about the case, I am pretty sure that either Smit or Tracey or some IDI person said that it was possible that the killer sent JonBenet down it. Anyone else remember that?

Hmmm I wonder if they ever went down that chute with a camera or anything to see if there were any blonde hairs, clothing etc of course I guess you couldn't prove that the body went down the chute, hair and clothing fibers may have come off the actual dirty clothes and bedspreads as they went down.

 

[Meara]

gramcracker, that's a good point about the regular laundry not needing to drop all the way to the basement, because the main laundry room was on the third floor.

Somewhere, JR is questioned about whether he would have dropped the wool shirt down the laundry chute that night, and he said probably not. Being wool, it would need to be dry cleaned. I will try to source that.

FWIW, I don't see a place for the chute to be located any closer to the laundry area than that little door in the wall in the video. If the chute dropped directly into the laundry area, the upper portion would have to be located well into Patsy's bath/dressing area. It's hard to picture JR using it there, isn't it? Funny, too.

 

[Meara]

Mama, I'm not understanding your placement of the chute in the basement. It works for the top two floors; I get that. Having it pass through the ground floor in that location appears to put it in the walk-in fridge. There could be a space between the fridge and the wall that separates the kitchen from the back hallway, but it would be a squeeze, I think.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer10_blue.html

Now here's what's in that location in the basement:

http://www.acandyrose.com/window-basement1.jpg

That used to be the outside wall before the back addition was built, with a ventilation window at ground level. The door probably used to be the door at the bottom of the old back stairs from the kitchen to the basement. Are you thinking the shaft is between the window and a wall that was later built behind it? TIA

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Hmmm I wonder if they ever went down that chute with a camera or anything to see if there were any blonde hairs, clothing etc of course I guess you couldn't prove that the body went down the chute, hair and clothing fibers may have come off the actual dirty clothes and bedspreads as they went down.

I don't think so. But I think the idea that JonBenet went down the chute to be pretty far-fetched. Would she even fit? Why didn't they show us a lifesize doll going down it to prove she would? I think in the show, the speculation was that after JBR hit the ground, that's when she screamed. I can't exactly remember. But just the idea of the killer dumping JonBenet down the chute and then racing downstairs to meet her sounds ridiculous.

 

[pageantmom]

I don't think so. But I think the idea that JonBenet went down the chute to be pretty far-fetched. Would she even fit? Why didn't they show us a lifesize doll going down it to prove she would? I think in the show, the speculation was that after JBR hit the ground, that's when she screamed. I can't exactly remember. But just the idea of the killer dumping JonBenet down the chute and then racing downstairs to meet her sounds ridiculous.

I agree it sounds ridiculous. It doesn't really make sense. The problem is very few things the Ramsey's do makes sense, which is why I can't rule it out. Lol.

 

[Frigga]

I can rule it out- there would be injuries that would be apparent- not just a head bash- scrapings (raspberry type) and she would have much more bruising, I would think. Just MOO of course.

 

[Tawny]

There would definitely be more injuries apparent if she had fallen down a chute of any kind, IMO.

 

[DeDee]

This thread has info about Patsy's 40th birthday party that PW organized to take place in Denver.

There is mention of the photographs found of JonBenét in the basement.

The most interesting thing for me are the comments regarding the lack of a videotape on Christmas morning. Also, only 3 or 4 pictures exist to the public of the Rs on Christmas morning. IIRC, when LE looked at the videotape that was inside the camcorder, the film dated back to August 1996. The public has never seen any photos taken at the White's Christmas party.

Ok so in another thread I started ("Patsy's makeup") someone posted photos from the Whites Christmas party which was great since I'd neve seen those before. But, I have also heard on this forum peopl saying "oh I wish we could see photos from the White's party, it would explain so much" etc. I kind of don't get it...what do the party photos tell us?? Sorry if I sound dumb, I have read a lot of this forum and I've read two of the books about the case, but there are still things I don't know yet.

My other question....do we know when JonBenet actually died? Because maybe this sounds crazy..but what if she didn't die through the night at all? What if something happened during the Whites party or after it on the car ride home or something? Is that possible? I remember John Ramsey saying in a quote somewhere that they stopped at some various neighbors to drop off Christmas gifts...did any neighbor see JBR get out of the car, move, etc? Am I nuts for thinking it may have happened much earlier than previously thought, and maybe more adults knew about it than just the Ramseys? Or maybe I just need to get some sleep.

otg,
Maybe, but in a case of this magnitude nothing is simple. The big clue lies in the lack of Ramsey video or photographs from Christmas morning. My basic RDI infers from this who did what.

.

 

[elannia]

This thread has info about Patsy's 40th birthday party that PW organized to take place in Denver.

There is mention of the photographs found of JonBenét in the basement.

The most interesting thing for me are the comments regarding the lack of a videotape on Christmas morning. Also, only 3 or 4 pictures exist to the public of the Rs on Christmas morning. IIRC, when LE looked at the videotape that was inside the camcorder, the film dated back to August 1996. The public has never seen any photos taken at the White's Christmas party.

So I wonder why no video? We only have the R's words in their interviews and DOI of why but I wonder what the real reason is

 

[UKGuy]

So I wonder why no video? We only have the R's words in their interviews and DOI of why but I wonder what the real reason is

elannia,
Obviously something happened. Those that promote a PDI consider that a disagreement between PR and JonBenet led to her death?

For me the big hint is in the staging, no video, no pictures, its Christmas Day and JonBenet is nowhere to be seen, and like any girl she wants to be in that photograph, but it all went quiet?


Sadly bad stuff took place and the parents did their best to cover it all up including pictures of JonBenet wearing whatever she wore that day and anything she said?

.

 

[elannia]

The photo of JB at the Ramseys party on the 23rd to me she looks like she doesnt feel good at all. Her face is really pale and she just looks sick. and the photo on Christmas day with her and patsy is just spooky to me.

 

[DeeDee249]

elannia,
Obviously something happened. Those that promote a PDI consider that a disagreement between PR and JonBenet led to her death?

For me the big hint is in the staging, no video, no pictures, its Christmas Day and JonBenet is nowhere to be seen, and like any girl she wants to be in that photograph, but it all went quiet?


Sadly bad stuff took place and the parents did their best to cover it all up including pictures of JonBenet wearing whatever she wore that day and anything she said?

.

I believe the Rs told police there were dead batteries in the camcorder. Seems out of character for Patsy-she loved to chronicle the special occasions- hard to believe she didn't make sure the video equipment was ready. We have seen a few photos from that morning...Patsy with her death grip on JB's arm with a sweetly smiling JB in her pink pajama top. There is one of JB with her new bike under the tree. There may be a few more in cyberspace.

 

[DeDee]

The photo of JB at the Ramseys party on the 23rd to me she looks like she doesnt feel good at all. Her face is really pale and she just looks sick. and the photo on Christmas day with her and patsy is just spooky to me.

I agree. There are some of her pageant pictures where she appears to have "glassy" eyes. I will not post them out of respect for this precious child who was used and abused until her death.
JB also had a picture taken of her with bare feet and wearing a red sundress where there are apparent injuries to her leg from a stun gun.

 

[claudicici]

Could this picture have actually been taken in the laundry room ?