The word "hurt" in media reports

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

There must be a reason that he hasn't been arrested yet so it must not be that simple. If LE could put Raven in the home before Janet was murdered they would have arrested him. There has to be a reason that he hasn't been arrested. I don't think this case is cut and dried...at least not in the eyes of LE.

I think that this case is going to be largely circumstantial. Either that or they are going to use the circumstantial elements to bolster their case. There's a lot of mention of back-ups in the labs and that could be a part of it. Maybe they are waiting on the Google data to see if they can prove premeditation, as many have stated.

How do we know for sure what time Raven got home that night? I'm sure he didn't say 10:30ish or did he say that before he found out the time of death?

Raven's own story places him at home at 10:30. According to the autopsy, the onset of injury was about 10:50 and TOD was about 10:55. If Raven is the perp, he clearly had no idea how narrowly TOD could be determined.

I don't think Let It Snow had any intention of sticking around. I think he/she came her to say his/her piece and that was all. I would like to hear why that person is so sure that Raven is innocent.

I agree, Bobbisangel. Apparently we touched a nerve, and she came to yell and tell us all how she's in the know and we're not. I imagine that something like this has to be terribly painful for those that know the families. However, I think that people need to look at this with an open mind. If Raven is the perp, those that blindly defend him with nothing to back it up are equally at risk when it comes to dangerous people. You've got to be able to spot the warning signs. Even if Raven is somehow not the perp, there are just a ton of warning signs in him that he could be (is).

I personally will continue to look forward to Raven's arrest. I have no trouble considering other theories but virtually none have been put forward here. I'm not able to let family member's general statements about Raven's innocence sway my opinion. I guess the truth will come out in time. If he is not the perp, A LOT of people are going to be immeasurably shocked. If he is, I don't think that the shock will be nearly as great. IMO, even those that defend him know deep down that there is, AT LEAST, a reason to wonder about Raven. To those that still don't see the possibility, I wish them good luck.

 

[L L & S]

I think that this case is going to be largely circumstantial. Either that or they are going to use the circumstantial elements to bolster their case. There's a lot of mention of back-ups in the labs and that could be a part of it. Maybe they are waiting on the Google data to see if they can prove premeditation, as many have stated.

Raven's own story places him at home at 10:30. According to the autopsy, the onset of injury was about 10:50 and TOD was about 10:55. If Raven is the perp, he clearly had no idea how narrowly TOD could be determined.

I agree, Bobbisangel. Apparently we touched a nerve, and she came to yell and tell us all how she's in the know and we're not. I imagine that something like this has to be terribly painful for those that know the families. However, I think that people need to look at this with an open mind. If Raven is the perp, those that blindly defend him with nothing to back it up are equally at risk when it comes to dangerous people. You've got to be able to spot the warning signs. Even if Raven is somehow not the perp, there are just a ton of warning signs in him that he could be (is).

I personally will continue to look forward to Raven's arrest. I have no trouble considering other theories but virtually none have been put forward here. I'm not able to let family member's general statements about Raven's innocence sway my opinion. I guess the truth will come out in time. If he is not the perp, A LOT of people are going to be immeasurably shocked. If he is, I don't think that the shock will be nearly as great. IMO, even those that defend him know deep down that there is, AT LEAST, a reason to wonder about Raven. To those that still don't see the possibility, I wish them good luck.

Great Post JG, bet you all thought I fell off the face of the Earth. Well I didn't. As far as Raven is concerned... I too wish a family member or friend would come online and stay and give us something else to consider... do you think they are not coming around because they have nothing to base those claims of innocence on. They can't explain the timeline or the evidence so far... I don't konw. Even though I am leaning heavily toward Raven as the perp in this... I would be very interested in knowing who THEY think killed Janet.

 

[hoppyfrog]

There must be a reason that he hasn't been arrested yet so it must not be that simple. If LE could put Raven in the home before Janet was murdered they would have arrested him. There has to be a reason that he hasn't been arrested. I don't think this case is cut and dried...at least not in the eyes of LE.

Last night and this a.m. I've been thinking a lot about *exactly* the same thing that you wrote above.

Anyone want to seriously brainstorm the reasons why he hasn't been arrested? I'll start:

1. Murder weapon hasn't been located (that we know of)
2. Possible lack of blood evidence (per NC Banker's source in LE).
3. Lack of a solid motive (I know there's been speculation here, but we don't yet know if there were any life insurance policies or if he knew Janet was pregnant.)

You're welcome to add to the list.

Hoppy

 

[terminatrixator]

Last night and this a.m. I've been thinking a lot about *exactly* the same thing that you wrote above.

Anyone want to seriously brainstorm the reasons why he hasn't been arrested? I'll start:

1. Murder weapon hasn't been located (that we know of)
2. Possible lack of blood evidence (per NC Banker's source in LE).
3. Lack of a solid motive (I know there's been speculation here, but we don't yet know if there were any life insurance policies or if he knew Janet was pregnant.)

You're welcome to add to the list.

Hoppy

4. All the forensics have not come in yet - this process can take up to 6 months.
5. LE has not yet gone to the DA yet.
6. LE went to the DA and the DA has to go through the paperwork to draw up the charges.
6. Awaiting the extradition paperwork to go through.
7. Making sure all the I's and T's are dotted and crossed.

trix

 

[golfmom]

Determining premeditation

 

[radar]

I don't think Raven is the perpetrator of this crime. The weapon has not been found (that we know of). He would not have had time to dispose of the knife based on the timeline put forth.

 

[terminatrixator]

Ah, but you forget that he puts himself home at approximately 10:30 - she was hurt 10:50, deceased by 10:55 - he lives by a creek, in the time he supposedly took to go find the cell phone etc. he could have ditched that knife somehow, someway, or handed it off to an accomplice, by the time LE and Paramedics arrived. He was a soccer player, and at that time, I bet he was in a lot better shape than the chubby, balding dude is now! It wouldn't have been too hard on him, because back then, he had stamina and was actually in shape.

 

[Moxie]

I don't think Raven is the perpetrator of this crime. The weapon has not been found (that we know of). He would not have had time to dispose of the knife based on the timeline put forth.

Hi Radar,

Thank you for your insight. I'm not sure I understand the timeline?

Moxie

 

[radar]

Ah, but you forget that he puts himself home at approximately 10:30 - she was hurt 10:50, deceased by 10:55 - he lives by a creek, in the time he supposedly took to go find the cell phone etc. he could have ditched that knife somehow, someway, or handed it off to an accomplice, by the time LE and Paramedics arrived. He was a soccer player, and at that time, I bet he was in a lot better shape than the chubby, balding dude is now! It wouldn't have been too hard on him, because back then, he had stamina and was actually in shape.

The "creek" (or drainage ditch) was searched with no result.

 

[Jenifred]

The "creek" (or drainage ditch) was searched with no result.

How many times was the marina searched in the SP case? That proves nothing.

 

[terminatrixator]

Especially if the knife was bleached or sanitized in any way.

 

[radar]

How many times was the marina searched in the SP case? That proves nothing.

BIG difference.

 

[Jenifred]

BIG difference.

Okay, it was a big difference, but it just helps illustrate that a one time search is not enough.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

The "creek" (or drainage ditch) was searched with no result.

Please check out the area on the Terra Server satellite page. There are MANY lakes in the area, MANY creeks, MANY trees - all very close to the house on Ferrand Drive. If Janet was attacked at 10:50 and the 911 call wasn't made until 10:58, clearly there was more than enough time for Raven to bring that weapon somewhere before calling 911.

He probably didn't want to leave Kaiden alone for too long so decided to do this after soccer as opposed to before soccer. Then we hear about kissing the baby, turning Janet over, looking for cell phones - ALL of this, IMO, is just about giving himself enough time in the timeline to actually dispose of the weapon and still make the 911 call in a reasonable amount of time after returning home.

The more we dig, the more we see that Raven's story is falling apart. Not only did he place himself in the house PRIOR to TOD, the time that he said he arrived home was TWENTY-EIGHT MINUTES before 911 was called. 28 minutes!?!?!? Did it take him twenty-eight minutes to kiss the baby and find the cell phone? No, he went home, killed his wife, ran out to toss the weapon or to press it into the dirt somewhere, and then came home and called 911. (And if the attack was actually more like 10:40 or 10:45, that gave Raven even MORE time to dispose of the weapon before making the call.)

Again, check out the Terra Server images that are available around here on the forum somewhere. There are MORE than enough places nearby where Raven could have disposed of the weapon, still getting back in time to call 911 in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[radar]

September 16, 1986---Bill Wegerle returns home shortly before noon to have lunch. His wife's car is not in the driveway, their 2 year old boy child is sitting on the living room floor. Bill does a walk through but does not find his wife, he thinks she may have gone to the school where their daughter attends for some reason. Only after approximately 45 minutes does Bill finally find his wife's body in their bedroom. Bill was suspected of her murder but there was not enough evidence to make an arrest. Vicki Wegerle, BTK victim.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Okay radar. Let me ask you this. Throughout this forum, is there anything that you feel we're overlooking that might point to a reasonable theory other than Raven being the perp? I'm seriously asking as I'm seriously interested in learning the truth - whatever that might be. What existed in the circumstances or on the crime scene that we're not seeing?

Interesting story on the BTK victim. Was her husband having affairs? Were they experiencing financial hardship? Was she pregnant? Was her laptop missing? (Of course they didn't have a laptop back then but you get the idea.)

 

[LTUlegal]

4. All the forensics have not come in yet - this process can take up to 6 months.
5. LE has not yet gone to the DA yet.
6. LE went to the DA and the DA has to go through the paperwork to draw up the charges.
6. Awaiting the extradition paperwork to go through.
7. Making sure all the I's and T's are dotted and crossed.

trix

Hey, Trixie...
Don't forget the computer forensics subpoena'ed from Google...it's got to take a bit of time to go through that!

I think they're being thorough with this case so as to completely aleviate ALL reasonable doubt.

 

[LTUlegal]

:clap:

Okay radar. Let me ask you this. Throughout this forum, is there anything that you feel we're overlooking that might point to a reasonable theory other than Raven being the perp? I'm seriously asking as I'm seriously interested in learning the truth - whatever that might be. What existed in the circumstances or on the crime scene that we're not seeing?

Interesting story on the BTK victim. Was her husband having affairs? Were they experiencing financial hardship? Was she pregnant? Was her laptop missing? (Of course they didn't have a laptop back then but you get the idea.)

 

[LTUlegal]

September 16, 1986---Bill Wegerle returns home shortly before noon to have lunch. His wife's car is not in the driveway, their 2 year old boy child is sitting on the living room floor. Bill does a walk through but does not find his wife, he thinks she may have gone to the school where their daughter attends for some reason. Only after approximately 45 minutes does Bill finally find his wife's body in their bedroom. Bill was suspected of her murder but there was not enough evidence to make an arrest. Vicki Wegerle, BTK victim.

Good point, Radar...which, by the way, you know is Rader's nickname in prison, don't you?
However, a couple of things to bring up...there doesn't appear to be a serial killer in that area, that's showing the same m.o. as Janet's murder. Raven was placed at the scene at the TIME OF DEATH. As JG said, have you SEEN how much water is in the area of that home? A little knife could be in the sludge at the bottom of a nearby body of water, of which there are MANY in that area.
Yes, please, give us examples of how it could be another perp & we'll steer our efforts that way, so far, no one's been able to give substantial credence to that theory.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

September 16, 1986---Bill Wegerle returns home shortly before noon to have lunch. His wife's car is not in the driveway, their 2 year old boy child is sitting on the living room floor. Bill does a walk through but does not find his wife, he thinks she may have gone to the school where their daughter attends for some reason. Only after approximately 45 minutes does Bill finally find his wife's body in their bedroom. Bill was suspected of her murder but there was not enough evidence to make an arrest. Vicki Wegerle, BTK victim.

A couple of key differences:

1) Bill Wegerle thought that his wife may have gone to their daughter's school. So during the time that he was assuming that, he probably wasn't actively wandering through the house.

2) Raven claims that he came home, kissed Kaiden, found Janet, and then ran around looking for the cell phones. I haven't heard about anything that he was supposedly doing in between these activities. How much time could it possibly take for him to park the car, get into the house (of course losing track of his cell phone somewhere along the way), walk up the stairs, kiss his son, and spot his wife on the floor of the room across the hall from Kaiden's room? Are you saying that it could have taken 28 minutes for Raven to do those things? I'm sorry ... I'm not seeing it.