Theories #1: What Happened to Jennifer Kesse?

[Truth Prevails]

Sometimes I think I'm a pendulum; swinging between a morning abduction or an evening one.

Same here.

If it was evening abduction how did 'they' get her out of her condo?

This is one of the big questions, and I ponder this when considering both AM and PM abduction theories. The easy answer for both AM & PM could be she was simply exiting her condo door to go to her vehicle. AM abduction could be because it was time to leave for work; PM abduction could be to retrieve the DVD from her car or _______ (please fill in the blank with your choice). I'm not saying she would have been easy to grab, but men can grab a women. Let's not make any mistake about that. Someone planned this well--they knew Jennifer's height and that she was able to defend herself. That would have been taken into account.

Considering that the crime of abduction or worse could have happened inside Jenn's condo--how could it have been left so clean? But, considering the condition of her vehicle when found, maybe the clean condition of the condo should not exclude these thoughts.

Something else: could Jennifer have been abducted in the hall just outside her condo door and pulled into the empty unlocked condo next door? I wonder how long before anyone checked there? Maybe "they" got Jenn's keys from her purse and went into her condo to shower.

Depending on what was done and left to be done in that unfinished condo, perhaps they could have taken her out in a big bin used for gathering old insulation or used flooring, etc. I'm horrified to think this, but I can't deny that I believe they would have had time. And this could probably work for an AM or PM abduction. Throw her in a garbage container of some sort, place garbage material on top, wheel the bin out. It could have been planned so well, that the person had somehow obtained a uniform or was able to dress like the workers for just long enough to complete the disposal. Maybe from a distance no-one would really notice because his actions appeared so normal. Risky, I know. But whoever we're looking for took some risks.

Did someone get hold of a key?

Certainly they could have. There is probably a hundred ways that could have happened.

Did someone get a key cut?

I can't think of a reason to firmly and definitely say "no" to this.

The group who stayed at her condo must have had keys.

Yes. Her family most likely kept a spare set and her brother used them that weekend with the knowledge and permission of everyone. How well would they have been protected? It has to be considered plausible that someone could have "borrowed" them and copied them, because people can sneak and do things that some trusting individual would never expect or even think possible.

Were all the local key cutters checked out?

If LE did as little as we are led to believe, I would say no way to this. Maybe Mr. Kesse checked himself or had someone else do it, though. It's hard to say.

If the perpetrator got inside her condo then anything becomes possible.

It does, indeed.

What about an intoxicated ex?
If it it was a night time abduction he has a red flag.

I agree. How he explained his actions on the night of the 23rd to LE is something I would like very much to be privy to. Saying you were "stinking drunk" is not enough. Lots of "stinking drunk" guys commit crimes. So, I wonder how he explained himself. We know the bar surely closed at some point, so where did he go? Where was he in the morning--for those who believe in the morning abduction. LE had him in for questioning and I'm sure they wanted answers to those questions and a lot more. I don't know--maybe he passed a lie detector test and that was enough for them, for the time being. They say no one has been completely cleared--if this ever opens up again, say Jennifer is found, some of these people will be re-interviewed.

Wild thoughts? Sure, but hey things are getting desperate here.

True. I'm in the same boat. Maybe we need a new episode of the podcast.

 

[grief2hope]

This could be a completely ignorant question so please forgive me but I have to ask anyways. Would it be possible this far out for the LE to go back into Jennifer's old condo and use the luminol to check for blood then test it if they find any? I wasn't sure if they checked for it back then or not.

 

[grief2hope]

My final question for the day...lol

Do we know if there were cameras at her work parking lot or nearby that were checked?

 

[marable]

My final question for the day...lol

Do we know if there were cameras at her work parking lot or nearby that were checked?

I have never read where there was a discussion about camera's at her workplace.....I think that it is possible that they did have cameras because they may have had money from clients coming into the office???? But , not sure of this....

 

[Truth Prevails]

This could be a completely ignorant question so please forgive me but I have to ask anyways. Would it be possible this far out for the LE to go back into Jennifer's old condo and use the luminol to check for blood then test it if they find any? I wasn't sure if they checked for it back then or not.

I do think this is possible. But with LE believing that it happened the evening before as Jenn must have left her condo to find a place where Travis' cell phone could be put in the mail; and her parents believing that nothing could have happened in her condo because of the condition they found it in--maybe no-one thought it was important. Maybe they still don't.

My final question for the day...lol

Do we know if there were cameras at her work parking lot or nearby that were checked?

Now for this, I really don't know the answer. I assume they did have working cameras and they were checked because it is something that has gotten little to no attention. But sometimes when something is "assumed" it turns out to be very wrong. Maybe someone who has a definitive answer will drop in.

 

[marable]

This could be a completely ignorant question so please forgive me but I have to ask anyways. Would it be possible this far out for the LE to go back into Jennifer's old condo and use the luminol to check for blood then test it if they find any? I wasn't sure if they checked for it back then or not.

I saw a crime show once where a person was murdered, the room was repainted after the room had been luminoled , the house or apartment was sold....The people who bought it went to bed and woke up to find their bedroom walls lit up with the luminol under the fresh paint job.....I have no idea if they could spray Jennifer's condo walls and see any blood evidence or not....

I have wondered if the damp towel on her washer could have been tested for dna....

It would have been nice if OPD had processed her condo, probably nothing there but we will never know if it held any clues....

 

[Truth Prevails]

I have never read where there was a discussion about camera's at her workplace.....I think that it is possible that they did have cameras because they may have had money from clients coming into the office???? But , not sure of this....

I was poking along adding my comment and didn't see yours in time. Sorry about this.

 

[JnRyan]

This could be a completely ignorant question so please forgive me but I have to ask anyways. Would it be possible this far out for the LE to go back into Jennifer's old condo and use the luminol to check for blood then test it if they find any? I wasn't sure if they checked for it back then or not.

With all the people that probably have gone through that condo in 11 years, it might be tough. I doubt if they found anything or even identify the blood as Jennifer's. I suppose if there was evidence of a large amount of blood - enough to indicate a serious or fatal injury - they might be able to consider it a crime scene. But even then it would be difficult to say it was related to Jennifer's abduction. We wouldn't be asking this question if LE had processed the condo in the beginning.

 

[JnRyan]

There was take-out Chinese food in the refrigerator that no-one can properly account for; or bothered to if they could, as far as we know.

How and when did it get there? Did anyone look through her garbage, if there was any garbage? That could be important. If she didn't go out for the take-out, maybe someone brought it to her. Someone she knew and trusted; someone she would have let into her condo. And maybe someone she would have left willingly with. Perhaps LE could have found a receipt which would lead to a video of someone purchasing Chinese food at the time on the receipt.

I don't know what-all could have been found, but I know LE are very, very good at ferreting things of that nature out. But were they given the opportunity?

So--even if the condo was not the crime scene--and even if they did no forensic testing of anything like the bathroom towel; much could have still been discovered.

I had not considered the potential significance of the Chinese food before. Yet another opportunity missed?

 

[marable]

I do think this is possible. But with LE believing that it happened the evening before as Jenn must have left her condo to find a place where Travis' cell phone could be put in the mail; and her parents believing that nothing could have happened in her condo because of the condition they found it in--maybe no-one thought it was important. Maybe they still don't.

Now for this, I really don't know the answer. I assume they did have working cameras and they were checked because it is something that has gotten little to no attention. But sometimes when something is "assumed" it turns out to be very wrong. Maybe someone who has a definitive answer will drop in.

Jennifers mother said one thing that has always stuck with me in regards to the way her condo appeared when they first entered it, she said her condo was "maid clean"......This condo hosted three or four young men for what, four days? Unless they hired someone to clean up I wonder if they were able to clean it up to "maid clean"???

Not sure how Jennifer's housekeeping was but her father has stated her car was usually a mess of sorts and that he had recently cleaned it up for her....Apparently she stored things in her trunk as I listened to an interview where Drew stated OPD had gone through everything stored in her trunk....

I have always wanted to ask Logan if the condo appeared as they had left it....I have even wondered if Jennifer's PJ's and underwear were in the bathroom floor the entire time the young men stayed there? Probably not or someone would have mentioned that at some point...

 

[Truth Prevails]

Jennifers mother said one thing that has always stuck with me in regards to the way her condo appeared when they first entered it, she said her condo was "maid clean"......This condo hosted three or four young men for what, four days? Unless they hired someone to clean up I wonder if they were able to clean it up to "maid clean"???

I can't see it. I'm afraid someone else may have done the cleaning. Not Jennifer, and not her brother or male friends.

Not sure how Jennifer's housekeeping was but her father has stated her car was usually a mess of sorts and that he had recently cleaned it up for her....Apparently she stored things in her trunk as I listened to an interview where Drew stated OPD had gone through everything stored in her trunk....

I remember they made Rob stand right there when they opened her trunk. I think they thought they were going to find her in there and wanted to see his re-action. So, LE were really reacting blindly at that time. I'm sure they scoured everything with a fine tooth comb and didn't find a dang thing; because by at least 2009, Mr. Kesse believed, due to gas mileage, Jenn's car quite possibly only traveled about 1.2 miles down the road to where it was dropped off. So, they checked out everything in the trunk of her vehicle, but nothing in her condo. Oh, my.

I have always wanted to ask Logan if the condo appeared as they had left it....I have even wondered if Jennifer's PJ's and underwear were in the bathroom floor the entire time the young men stayed there? Probably not or someone would have mentioned that at some point...

I think if she knew her brother and friends were coming to "condo sit" she would have taken a couple of seconds to toss her pj's and undies out of sight somewhere. Unless she didn't even have one second, and I know this day and age that is possible--but I bet she would have had something to say about him leaving them there all weekend. So, really I tend towards they did get there sometime between after she arrived home on the 23rd, to some time on the morning of the 24th. I'll admit, this is a strong indicator of the morning shower theory. These things should have been collected for forensic analyses, along with the bathroom towel.

 

[marable]

You could be right about Jennifer cleaning up since she knew Logan and his friend would be there....But, I can see a bunch of young men walking on things in the floor for four days...

I don't know if you remember early in Jennifer's disappearance that a woman called in and reported that she had seen Jennifer at 1414 40th St being held against her will, it wasn't very far from Jennifers condo, less than 10 miles I believe....OPD could not find any evidence of Jennifer having been there....Maybe , her car was not driven far....

I have personally believed that she was not taken far and that the POI used less traveled roads to take her car to the HOTG.....

Really when you start looking at the OPD's searches for Jennifer they are centered pretty near Jennifer's condo, why is that do you suppose???

 

[Truth Prevails]

You could be right about Jennifer cleaning up since she knew Logan and his friend would be there....But, I can see a bunch of young men walking on things in the floor for four days...

Oh, yes. I can totally see guys just walking over things on the floor and laughing like crazy if they trip. Were I Jenn and generous enough to let my brother stay a long weekend in my condo, I would never let him forget that he left my undies out on display all weekend. Even if it was me that should have picked them up before I left.

I don't know if you remember early in Jennifer's disappearance that a woman called in and reported that she had seen Jennifer at 1414 40th St being held against her will, it wasn't very far from Jennifers condo, less than 10 miles I believe....OPD could not find any evidence of Jennifer having been there....Maybe , her car was not driven far....

You know, I was just reading about a couple of "false sightings" that had been worth checking into. I didn't get that many details, so I can't say for certain that the one you referred to was mentioned. I was surprised, though. In a strange way, I found it encouraging.

I have personally believed that she was not taken far and that the POI used less traveled roads to take her car to the HOTG.....

As of recently, I'm entertaining the idea that her car was not used at all and only moved to the HOG to mislead LE. I could change my mind at any moment, though.

Really when you start looking at the OPD's searches for Jennifer they are centered pretty near Jennifer's condo, why is that do you suppose???

I think LE may believe that if Jennifer left her condo unit of her own free will, she never even made it to the parking lot. Some of the searches, especially the later ones, may have only been for forensic evidence, maybe hoping to come across her briefcase, purse, or even her car keys.

I'll the first one to admit I'm wrong, though; and pleased to do so.

 

[marable]

Oh, yes. I can totally see guys just walking over things on the floor and laughing like crazy if they trip. Were I Jenn and generous enough to let my brother stay a long weekend in my condo, I would never let him forget that he left my undies out on display all weekend. Even if it was me that should have picked them up before I left.

You know, I was just reading about a couple of "false sightings" that had been worth checking into. I didn't get that many details, so I can't say for certain that the one you referred to was mentioned. I was surprised, though. In a strange way, I found it encouraging.

As of recently, I'm entertaining the idea that her car was not used at all and only moved to the HOG to mislead LE. I could change my mind at any moment, though.

I think LE may believe that if Jennifer left her condo unit of her own free will, she never even made it to the parking lot. Some of the searches, especially the later ones, may have only been for forensic evidence, maybe hoping to come across her briefcase, purse, or even her car keys.

I'll the first one to admit I'm wrong, though; and pleased to do so.

I have changed my mind so many times as to what happened to Jennifer.....The car has me stumped unless she drove it to meet someone and something happened to the two of them where he dragged her off into his car or dumped her ....Really, why else would you remove your victims car if you did not need it to transport the body? Were they trying to buy time and make it appear that she had left for work and she was abducted away from the Mosaic? Did someone pay the POI seen parking her car and he had nothing to do with her abduction(I really have a difficult time with this as people talk), surely , if you were told to wipe a vehicle down wouldn't that raise some serouos questions for you? Could he have been so heartless he was just interested in the money?

When you think of the Jennifer's car trunk being used for storage as stated by Drew, it makes you wonder if it were used in her abduction...She was a "car slob"per her father, we know that she had stuff in the console and the dvd in the backseat and flip flops in the front floorboard....what else did she have in there?

I theorize only to keep Jennifer's story alive...I do not have all of the answers , nor does anyone else....I feel that my opinions are just as accurate as the next person on here and vice versa....

I have to say that I thoroughly admire those of you on here who can see features of the POI in the video.....I have a block of some kind and cannot make out any of those things, not saying they aren't there, I don't see them...

 

[Truth Prevails]

I have changed my mind so many times as to what happened to Jennifer.....

I'm either a close second, or I have you beat. Flexibility is a good thing for theorizing, though; and there are really only a few things we can consider as "firm" facts.

The car has me stumped unless she drove it to meet someone and something happened to the two of them where he dragged her off into his car or dumped her ....

Then drove her car back to HOG and took a bus back to his vehicle. I see that worthy of consideration, depending on how one fits it in with the rest of their theory. Lately, I consider this as "casual seeming." I contemplate the "high noon" parking, and think of the planning that seems to suggest. Also, I try to fit Bo, the hound, tracking back to Jen's condo parking spot--just giving Bo the benefit of the doubt that he was tracking the POI's scent.

Really, why else would you remove your victims car if you did not need it to transport the body? Were they trying to buy time and make it appear that she had left for work and she was abducted away from the Mosaic?

Except for the very first part about "them" trying to buy time, I'm on this page right now. I think trying to mislead and confuse LE may have been more the reason. Suppose this is the case, it certainly achieved its purpose for 11 years and is still holding.

And I'll stick this in here, but with regret as I hope it is not the case--Jenn may have never left the Mosaic in the way we want to believe. Stored in an empty, unlocked condo unit and removed under a pile of garbage when the coast was clear, maybe? Too horrible to contemplate? I agree.

Did someone pay the POI seen parking her car and he had nothing to do with her abduction(I really have a difficult time with this as people talk), surely , if you were told to wipe a vehicle down wouldn't that raise some serouos questions for you? Could he have been so heartless he was just interested in the money?

Oh, yes, for a variety of personal reasons, people will do shocking things for a little money. You would have to have some luck to find the right person at the convenient moment, though. Sure they would know something nefarious was in the wind, but I don't think those type of people let themselves think too deep. Just keep it in the moment, I guess.

I favored the POI and the perpetrator being two different people for a long time, but now I'm thinking they are one and the same. For now, anyways.

When you think of the Jennifer's car trunk being used for storage as stated by Drew, it makes you wonder if it were used in her abduction...She was a "car slob"per her father, we know that she had stuff in the console and the dvd in the backseat and flip flops in the front floorboard....what else did she have in there?

Oh, that's where it is believed her flip flops were. Okay, that fits with Mrs. Kesse's belief that Jenn would have had her heels on when she left her condo unit. Something else that was mentioned here recently that I hadn't known was that Mr. Kesse had recently given Jenn's car a little cleaning. He probably put all that stuff in her trunk so he could do a quick vacuum. It's hard to guess at what all she could have had in there.

I believe Rob said the DVD player in the backseat was one he had given her and he had strapped it there sometime before she left Monday morning. I don't think it's good for them to be left in the extreme heat that would build inside of a vehicle, so that's why the DVD player always sticks in my side like a thorn. Jenn was a young woman who seemed to appreciate and take good care of her things.

And on a good note--I think we can believe that LE went over Jenn's vehicle and everything in it in a proper manner. I hope. They could certainly have had no doubt that she was missing and in danger at that point. They couldn't blame the Kesse's for disturbing the crime scene because they had the vehicle first and had Rob witness the opening of the trunk. So, in other words, they had no excuse.

I theorize only to keep Jennifer's story alive...I do not have all of the answers , nor does anyone else....I feel that my opinions are just as accurate as the next person on here and vice versa....

Absolutely. And bouncing around ideas keeps the "edge" alive in our minds. Keeps us looking, keeps us pressing. After a while, people hear us. They can may make fun of us for our theories and insult us, but our interest can keep these cases alive.

I believe in the power of group prayers--so I hope we all pray for Jenn, but prayers and little hearts get boring. Struggling with the few facts we have and the many theories keeps Jenn foremost in my mind and inspires me to offer prayers more often.

I have to say that I thoroughly admire those of you on here who can see features of the POI in the video.....I have a block of some kind and cannot make out any of those things, not saying they aren't there, I don't see them...

I totally second this. I cannot make head nor tail of the big blow ups and it is not because I don't try. Interestingly enough, one of the few things I could get to come into focus was the "face" looking back in frame 3, iirc. I even took a screen shot and stare at that very blurry image ever so often. Oh, if only the cameras weren't 30 years old.

I think the evil, cunning POI knew Jenn and planned everything to a tee. He may not have been in her circle of closest friends because any one of them should have been able to identify him from the video. Even though I believe it is badly distorted and very grainy, I still think if you knew that person you could recognize him.

So, maybe someone from a pub she frequented or anyplace--all places would come into play, I guess. Some one with evil in their heart who wanted her and became jealous, frustrated and angry when realization set in that she was never going to be interested.

 

[Myserty64]

Sadly Jennifer crossed paths with a predator.

My gut feeling is it was a worker and the POI is the perpetrator.

My best theory is the perpetrator left the USA immediately after the crime.
I wonder sometimes if the POI/Perpetrator is still alive.

After 11+ years of reading about this case my initial thoughts haven't really changed; rightly or wrongly.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Sadly Jennifer crossed paths with a predator.

My gut feeling is it was a worker and the POI is the perpetrator.

My best theory is the perpetrator left the USA immediately after the crime.
I wonder sometimes if the POI/Perpetrator is still alive.

It's thought the POI, at least, was fairly young. If that person is not still alive, that would most likely indicate an unnatural death. The sad thing there is that while he may have been served the ultimate justice, us on earth cannot find Jennifer. If we cannot offer Jennifer Kesse earthly justice, perhaps we could make an attempt to bring her home to her family.

After 11+ years of reading about this case my initial thoughts haven't really changed; rightly or wrongly.

It's the opposing timeline information that I feel deserves a second, third, fourth, fifth look--or however many looks it takes.

We are told: 1) Jennifer got up that morning just like any normal day and left her condo unit for work. And vanished. AND/OR 2) There may have been a phone ping from one of the cell phones at a tower indicating the phones were moving on the evening of the 23rd. Jennifer's cell phone and Travis' cell phone stopped working at the same time. And even though Mr. Kesse has given a time, Mrs. Kesse says it can't be confirmed by LE.

I believe it matters. The answer lies in the details; and how the two opposing timelines can come together if both are correct.

 

[Myserty64]

The family certainly deserve to have Jennifer come home.
It is a dreadful tragedy. Just dreadful.

After 11+ years it would be nice if LE could let everyone know if it was a morning or evening abduction.
I'm sure they know but perhaps they are keeping those cards close to their chests because the perpetrator knows the answer.

If it was an evening abduction I believe the case should have been solved years ago. For me there is one suspect for that scenario.

If it was a morning abduction I fear the perpetrator is long gone but then he may have re-entered the country by now.

Going off on a tangent..........................what is the height is the POI in the video?

 

[Myserty64]

One more thing..............................is LE holding back the fact the phones were powered off at 10:40 pm?

 

[Truth Prevails]

The family certainly deserve to have Jennifer come home.
It is a dreadful tragedy. Just dreadful.

After 11+ years it would be nice if LE could let everyone know if it was a morning or evening abduction.
I'm sure they know but perhaps they are keeping those cards close to their chests because the perpetrator knows the answer.

In early interviews that I have seen, LE supported the evening abduction theory. In more recent videos (but still older), they spoke about a morning abduction. I think they went with the morning abduction theory only to appease Jennifer's parents. That's just my opinion, though.

If it was an evening abduction I believe the case should have been solved years ago. For me there is one suspect for that scenario.

I might go with two possibles, but there could always be that one person who no-one knew about, you know? Someone she never even gave the time of day to, but his obsession grew. I do believe there are people that disturbed.

If it was a morning abduction I fear the perpetrator is long gone but then he may have re-entered the country by now.

I think the illegals made good scapegoats. There was no timeline; no forensics--so, blame the illegals and move on.

Going off on a tangent..........................what is the height is the POI in the video?

They say he/she is about 5'3" to 5'5". I think he is much taller. The next episode of the "Concluded" podcast might discuss the height.

Besides the surveillance video, another thing that makes everyone assume the above mentioned height, is that the driver's seat of Jennifer's car was moved forward.

Whoever it was sat in Jenn's car for 32 seconds--that's lots of time to wipe the steering wheel and move the seat forward. (I don't think he touched too much else.)

One more thing..............................is LE holding back the fact the phones were powered off at 10:40 pm?

Yes, Mrs. Kesse says they are. Apparently, Mr. Kesse said it on Jennifer's guest book pages, so I don't know where he would have got that information. Maybe from his own connections? I doubt very much that he would make it up.

There is also the phone ping--Mrs. Kesse didn't really deny it, but her explanation was that in 2006--for all we know--they could have been working on the tower that regularly served Jenn's condo area; and, therefore when they took it down for services, they set-up another nearby tower to service the area. That's the explanation for Jenn's phone showing movement during the late evening of the 23rd. (Just minutes before both phones went dead.)

In 2006, LE could have--and possible did--subpoena the tower records. Those people can confirm it, one way or the other. They have dates and times for when their towers were serviced. If it was not being serviced, Jenn's or Travis' phone was moving. I believe LE do know that much--one way or the other. I really believe they checked some things properly. Maybe quite a few but they don't want to cause the family anymore pain.

The thing is--the phone ping information is out there; the time the two cell phones went dead together, is out there. Saying it's false information is just setting the stage for a false arrest, like in the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Everything above is only my opinion.