Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[tx_Dot]

Can you provide a link so I can check it out? Please?

Let me ask this question-
What about the A's neighbors hearing someone in the pool on June 16th? If KC and Caylee were gone the night of the 15th like so many suggest, then who did the neighbors hear in the pool on the 16th? Are some people suggesting that the neighbors are lying as well? I am confused.

What time of day on the 16th did the neighbors hear someone in the pool? I do think there's a good possibility Casey was back at the house after George went to work and before Cindy got home. MOO

Yep, I musta missed this neighbor's statement also, anyone have his name ?? is he on the witness list ??........who remembers (weeks later) exactly what day your neighbors were in their pool ??

I think 'computer use' placed KC back home on the 16th.......as GA & CA were both @ work.

 

[BellaPhia]

I dont think "the neighbor heard someone in the pool" statement was ever confirmed by any neighbor and was simply a rumor that was started I believe on Greta or something...

 

[Chess613]

(respectfully snipped) I, too, have considered whether some of the searches (ie household weapons, neckbreaking, chloroform etc) may have been fueled by a fantasy (or plot) against her mother (vs Caylee) perhaps even at a time when GA wasn't in the picture. It is difficult to know whether KC's lies to AH re inheriting her parents' house and the invitation to move in w her eg was simply a fantasy or something w which KC intended at one point to follow thru... and if so, exactly how KC intended to accomplish her ends. Btw at that time from all reports KC had given AH every indication that Caylee was to also be living there at the A home w them. JMO

Hey there, I'm new to the post, but like most of you, I've been following this case almost from the very beginning. I always felt the whole conception of Zanny came about for two reasons: one, she was receiving pressure from the family to find a babysitter, since they were trying to get her to be responsible, and two: remember, Amy and her friends were planning to go on a trip to Puerto Rico in the summer. I think the whole "you can move in when my parents divorce" story was to 'bribe' her into taking her to Puerto Rico, if she didn't have the money to go. I also think that's why she stole so much money - not just from granpa, but from Cindy via credit cards, but also borrowing money from friends (I've read about that in a few posts). When she didn't go, her ultimate attack on Amy was to steal from her the very day she left town.

The biggest question for me is why? At first the ultimate question was: where is Caylee. That one’s answered. Even with the web searches, I still think there’s a possibility Caylee died by accident or by spontaneous action by Casey (i.e. slapping or shaking her in frustration). Sure, she may have had it on her mind back in March, but that may just be thoughts - the silly morbid fantasies of a young woman wanting to get away from her responsibilities. The chloroform is a different matter. I never believed in the chloro idea of knocking out Caylee just to party - not saying it isn’t possible, but where would she be making this chloro if she’s been doing this since March? In the garage? Is there evidence of it? I like the spontaneous death idea because it plays out - you have someone who believes, since March, that Caylee is holding her back. If I’m not mistaken, Morales broke off with her in February, and she was getting friction from Rusciano in march and april because she wasn’t readily available. I’m sure around this time, her parents were needling her about paying for Caylee’s food, clothes and compensating the parents when she went out to party. So they stopped taking care of her when Casey wanted to hang out - even if Casey slipped out and left Caylee with the parents, she’d catch hell when she got back. We still don’t know what prompted Cindy to go to a counselor in mid or late May where the counselor told Cindy to toughen up to Casey. I can only imagine how Mother’s Day must have been in the house. I think she had something on her mind, but kept it in her mind - until she got thrown out. That was the real catalyst. It made Casey immediately vulnerable - now she has to shack up with Lazzaro and be the doting girlfriend. She has to hope he likes kids and will put up with things when Caylee gets cranky. He doesn’t - he doesn’t want kids. And she has no job - so I have to imagine she spent all of her days just with Caylee, something that had to drive her crazy, especially now that she really has no place to live. And then the Father’s Day fight. I think this is when the whistle blew. Casey has EXCELLENT control of her emotions, and she erroneously believes she’s smarter than everyone else. So I’m sure she believe she could stage an accidental death and pretend to be the mourning mother. But she could also be the victim of a kidnapping. Or a carjacking. Which one? I think she entertained all of these ideas. I think the murder/accident happened at home - the phone calls beginning at 3:03pm suggest she may have wanted to act out the accidental death ploy, but chickened out - also, she couldn’t get anyone on the phone. Since we have tape over the mouth of the body, she probably entertained the kidnapping ploy. Then we have the car being left at Amscott with the purse - hoping someone would steal it, hence a carjacking. But neither really worked as planned. She didn’t follow up on the desperate phone call, the car never got stolen, so the last card she would play would be the kidnapping. But she waited too long - by the time she may have finalized the “nanny stole my baby” idea, it may have been over a week already. Why didn’t she report it immediately? Not knowing what to do, she did what she’s always done anytime she’s stolen something - hope to get away with it without anyone knowing and have fun fun fun while you’re free. Narcissists like Casey hate it when others live in happiness and peace and they don’t. The Anthony’s finally had peace with Casey out of the house. Her friends were about to party in Puerto Rico. Lazzaro was chilling in New York for a week, without taking her. I think Casey hated it. So she punishes her mother by denying her Caylee (not by killing her but by not letting her speak to her). She punishes Amy by stealing her money. Maybe she tried to put TonE under her thumb, but because he wasn’t so much into her, she couldn’t really do it.

Last thoughts.

Children are very good in seeing in the hearts of people, especially their parents. They sense everything. Casey is excellent in playing her emotions to the whims of the people around her - she’s a wonderful friend for those who need friends - a great daughter when it suits her needs and a great mother. She is what others want her to see. But a child knows. A child is a mirror of sorts to a parent, because a child reflects exactly what’s inside. I’m sure Casey knew it and hated it. In destroying Caylee, she destroyed the one person she couldn’t fake it to. Who knows what the final responses Caylee had to her mother. What we do know is something very pure was killed by something very impure.

 

[natsound]

Hey there, I'm new to the post, but like most of you, I've been following this case almost from the very beginning. I always felt the whole conception of Zanny came about for two reasons: one, she was receiving pressure from the family to find a babysitter, since they were trying to get her to be responsible, and two: remember, Amy and her friends were planning to go on a trip to Puerto Rico in the summer. I think the whole "you can move in when my parents divorce" story was to 'bribe' her into taking her to Puerto Rico, if she didn't have the money to go. I also think that's why she stole so much money - not just from granpa, but from Cindy via credit cards, but also borrowing money from friends (I've read about that in a few posts). When she didn't go, her ultimate attack on Amy was to steal from her the very day she left town.

The biggest question for me is why? At first the ultimate question was: where is Caylee. That one’s answered. Even with the web searches, I still think there’s a possibility Caylee died by accident or by spontaneous action by Casey (i.e. slapping or shaking her in frustration). Sure, she may have had it on her mind back in March, but that may just be thoughts - the silly morbid fantasies of a young woman wanting to get away from her responsibilities. The chloroform is a different matter. I never believed in the chloro idea of knocking out Caylee just to party - not saying it isn’t possible, but where would she be making this chloro if she’s been doing this since March? In the garage? Is there evidence of it? I like the spontaneous death idea because it plays out - you have someone who believes, since March, that Caylee is holding her back. If I’m not mistaken, Morales broke off with her in February, and she was getting friction from Rusciano in march and april because she wasn’t readily available. I’m sure around this time, her parents were needling her about paying for Caylee’s food, clothes and compensating the parents when she went out to party. So they stopped taking care of her when Casey wanted to hang out - even if Casey slipped out and left Caylee with the parents, she’d catch hell when she got back. We still don’t know what prompted Cindy to go to a counselor in mid or late May where the counselor told Cindy to toughen up to Casey. I can only imagine how Mother’s Day must have been in the house. I think she had something on her mind, but kept it in her mind - until she got thrown out. That was the real catalyst. It made Casey immediately vulnerable - now she has to shack up with Lazzaro and be the doting girlfriend. She has to hope he likes kids and will put up with things when Caylee gets cranky. He doesn’t - he doesn’t want kids. And she has no job - so I have to imagine she spent all of her days just with Caylee, something that had to drive her crazy, especially now that she really has no place to live. And then the Father’s Day fight. I think this is when the whistle blew. Casey has EXCELLENT control of her emotions, and she erroneously believes she’s smarter than everyone else. So I’m sure she believe she could stage an accidental death and pretend to be the mourning mother. But she could also be the victim of a kidnapping. Or a carjacking. Which one? I think she entertained all of these ideas. I think the murder/accident happened at home - the phone calls beginning at 3:03pm suggest she may have wanted to act out the accidental death ploy, but chickened out - also, she couldn’t get anyone on the phone. Since we have tape over the mouth of the body, she probably entertained the kidnapping ploy. Then we have the car being left at Amscott with the purse - hoping someone would steal it, hence a carjacking. But neither really worked as planned. She didn’t follow up on the desperate phone call, the car never got stolen, so the last card she would play would be the kidnapping. But she waited too long - by the time she may have finalized the “nanny stole my baby” idea, it may have been over a week already. Why didn’t she report it immediately? Not knowing what to do, she did what she’s always done anytime she’s stolen something - hope to get away with it without anyone knowing and have fun fun fun while you’re free. Narcissists like Casey hate it when others live in happiness and peace and they don’t. The Anthony’s finally had peace with Casey out of the house. Her friends were about to party in Puerto Rico. Lazzaro was chilling in New York for a week, without taking her. I think Casey hated it. So she punishes her mother by denying her Caylee (not by killing her but by not letting her speak to her). She punishes Amy by stealing her money. Maybe she tried to put TonE under her thumb, but because he wasn’t so much into her, she couldn’t really do it.

Last thoughts.

Children are very good in seeing in the hearts of people, especially their parents. They sense everything. Casey is excellent in playing her emotions to the whims of the people around her - she’s a wonderful friend for those who need friends - a great daughter when it suits her needs and a great mother. She is what others want her to see. But a child knows. A child is a mirror of sorts to a parent, because a child reflects exactly what’s inside. I’m sure Casey knew it and hated it. In destroying Caylee, she destroyed the one person she couldn’t fake it to. Who knows what the final responses Caylee had to her mother. What we do know is something very pure was killed by something very impure.

Very well thought-out post. I suppose we could all hypothesize until we're blue in the face, hmmm? Hopefully the truth will come out during the trial.

For a long time I was on the fence about whether the death was an accident or intentional. Weighing all the evidence we have, I've been leaning much more toward first-degree murder. I believe the simplest answer is usually the right answer (if it smells like a rat and acts like a rat.... ). So, considering the computer searches, KC's nonchalant attitude during the police interrogation and in every other situation, the "bella vida" tattoo after the disappearance, the partying after the disappearance, the "diary of days" post, the body so close to the home with duct tape applied, I believe the killing was intentional.

 

[natsound]

Someone on Nancy Grace said 'Casey lives her life 10 minutes at a time'.
If you've ever dealt with a sociopath, this is the perfect description of who they are and how they live. Their behavior at a given point in time can be driven by many things: rage, laziness, power-seeking. But every action is separated from all other actions done in the past.

So, for example, Casey could have been acting as a 'good mother' when people were watching and a negligent or angry mom when no one was around.

Sociopaths live in the moment. They have no coherent self and invent themselves to satisfy their needs in that moment. If lying relieves the stress of accusations, they lie. If stealing gets the money they need right now, they steal. If having a kid gets their parents to support them, they'll have a kid.

Whatever Casey did to her daughter was done in a moment when no one was watching. It satisfied whatever need she felt at that moment. If Caylee drowned in the pool, it's because her mom needed to talk on the phone just then. If she was locked in a trunk, it was because Casey needed to be alone with her boyfriend that evening.

This is how they think and behave.

It's beyond understanding.

Above in bold: Leonard Padilla said that. Yup, that's why it's so easy for her to tell extravagant lies with a straight face.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Someone on Nancy Grace said 'Casey lives her life 10 minutes at a time'.

If you've ever dealt with a sociopath, this is the perfect description of who they are and how they live. Their behavior at a given point in time can be driven by many things: rage, laziness, power-seeking. But every action is separated from all other actions done in the past.

So, for example, Casey could have been acting as a 'good mother' when people were watching and a negligent or angry mom when no one was around.

Sociopaths live in the moment. They have no coherent self and invent themselves to satisfy their needs in that moment. If lying relieves the stress of accusations, they lie. If stealing gets the money they need right now, they steal. If having a kid gets their parents to support them, they'll have a kid.

Whatever Casey did to her daughter was done in a moment when no one was watching. It satisfied whatever need she felt at that moment. If Caylee drowned in the pool, it's because her mom needed to talk on the phone just then. If she was locked in a trunk, it was because Casey needed to be alone with her boyfriend that evening.

This is how they think and behave.

It's beyond understanding.

I'm no psychaitrist but exploitation, entitlement, envy and lack of empathy is also a textbook description of NPD, or pathological narcissism. And self-centric parenting (self-centeredness, self-preoccupation etc) equates to inadequate supervision and negligent parenting and even w/OUT a swimming pool can very easily result in the death of a child--particularly when referring to a toddler. JMO

 

[jon_burrows]

Very interesting. It seems strange that someone would murder someone at all, of course, but to do it without a plan for afterward just blows my mind. What do they think is going to happen? Makes me think Casey is very arrogant for thinking that it would just somehow work out, but IMO that's what she did.

Just a guess but maybe she did have a plan. Considering the unusual pings in the wooded area near the airport, perhaps she was planning on leaving Caylee's body there and something prevented her from doing so (i.e. someone was in the area at the time, she was scared to go into a wooded area that was unfamiliar to her, etc). Who knows. It could explain why she kept Caylee's body in the trunk so long. Her original plan didn't work so she needed to find another place.

 

[jon_burrows]

Ok, enough is enough. I can not understand anyone trying to give KC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to murdering her child. I do not understand, with everything we know about this vicious, lying, manipulative thief why anyone would even think that Caylee's death was a tragic accident that KC was too afraid to report. Do her words convince you of this? What about her actions? Just what is it that makes anyone think that this was anything other than a cold blooded murder?

Anyone who thinks this was an accident is in the same state of denial as the A family, but without any basis for it such as parental love for KC or the incomprehensible thought that one's daughter could kill her own child without a shred of guilt or remorse.

The "accidental overdose of chloroform" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard of as an excuse for this child's death. Change "chloroform"to "gasoline" and ask yourself if it still could be an accident.

"Accidental death by being in a hot trunk" is again NOT an accident. It is ridiculous to think that ANYONE would not know that locking someone in a trunk in the hot Florida summer temperatures will cause death.

There is not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that Caylee's death was an accident and to propose that it was only discounts Caylee's value as a human being while elevating KC to victim status instead of the cold, heartless murderer that she is.

Oh sure everyone has an opinion but not all opinions are valid, especially those which dismiss the obvious in favor of what is "hoped" to have happened. No one wants to imagine little Caylee being murdered but guess what - that is what happened to her and her mother was her killer.
quote]

I agree.

If the duct tape reports are true, I can't see how anyone can spin this into an accidental death.

 

[DotsEyes]

jon burrows - thanks. I think a lot of folks are trying to make up accidental death scenarios to expand discussion and make scenarios fit the known and rumored facts. But, I look at KC's response to Caylee's abscence and it shows me quite clearly that she was relieved and happy to be free of the burden of motherhood. This was NOT a woman who had witnessed the accidental death of a beloved child.

I caught a lot of grief because I stated that opinions of 'accidental death and cover-up' are not valid because there is no basis for such opinions and was chastised because I have no right to tell others that their opinions are flawed. However, I stand by what I posted. There is not one shred of evidence to even suggest that an accident occurred.

 

[Nelliebell]

I couldn't agree more! This was no accident, the chloroform, computer searches and cover-up lies equal murder. And that's just what we do know from reading the released investigative documents. I suspect there will be much more evidence at trial. KC is going down, no doubt about it!

 

[aprilshowers]

Just a theory ... you guys can take it apart. :dance:

Could Caylee have been used for sexual abuse, being drugged of course.

And KC mentioned she's be coming up with a large sum of money soon, was Caylee used/sold for a 'snuff movie'? I get sick even typing that, but could it be possible?

As for the trunk evidence, could KC have been made to carry her body and dispose of it, after the movie was complete? :sick:

 

[LancelotLink]

I keep thinking that on the ride home from the visit with CA's mom and dad, CA may have used this opportunity to ask Caylee some questions about KC, and or this Zenaida person. I recall George saying something about Caylee never showed any recognition with the name. I wonder if perhaps Caylee told CA about sleeping in trunks, no Zenaida, etc.
Back at the house, CA confronts KC and tells her that she will be taking custody of Caylee. KC would see this as a direct betrayal from her own daughter and I hate to say this, but wrapped the duct tape around her face to punish her for telling on her.
I think Caylee may have suffocated that night...
I can't explain George stating that he saw both the next day.
That whole evening of events has bothered me. CA mad enough to choke KC, but turns around and "tucks both girls into bed?"

 

[Reannan]

I am pretty sure it wasn't a snuff movie because people who would film something like that would not be so sloppy to dump the body so close to the home, by the side of the road, with lots of evidence.

 

[Reannan]

In terms of accidental death, I guess that would depend on how you define "accident". I can see this scenario:

KC had been using the chloroform to put Caylee to sleep in the trunk of the car for sometime while she was out partying. I can see her removing Caylee's clothing so that she would be "cooler" in the trunk of the car (which is, of course, ridiculous). I can see her using duct tape to keep Caylee from screaming if she woke up and being heard by someone in the parking lot. If Caylee was sick and vomited, she would have chocked to death on her own vomit. After discovering Caylee dead, KC does what she does best - pretend everything is just fine. She leaves the body in the car and drives around for 2-3 days until the smell is such that she HAD to do something. I think she was over by the airport trying to figure out where and how to dump the body. For whatever reason, it didn't seem like a good location. She eventually went to the area that seemed "remote" but close to home in her own mind and dumped the body in a typically lazy, sloppy fashion.

 

[maur33]

Just a theory ... you guys can take it apart. :dance:

Could Caylee have been used for sexual abuse, being drugged of course.

And KC mentioned she's be coming up with a large sum of money soon, was Caylee used/sold for a 'snuff movie'? I get sick even typing that, but could it be possible?

As for the trunk evidence, could KC have been made to carry her body and dispose of it, after the movie was complete? :sick:

My mother recently mentioned this very scenario to me, I hadn't really thought it was possible but my mind is suddenly wandering to places best not visited.

 

[essies]

In terms of accidental death, I guess that would depend on how you define "accident". I can see this scenario:

KC had been using the chloroform to put Caylee to sleep in the trunk of the car for sometime while she was out partying. I can see her removing Caylee's clothing so that she would be "cooler" in the trunk of the car (which is, of course, ridiculous). I can see her using duct tape to keep Caylee from screaming if she woke up and being heard by someone in the parking lot. If Caylee was sick and vomited, she would have chocked to death on her own vomit. After discovering Caylee dead, KC does what she does best - pretend everything is just fine. She leaves the body in the car and drives around for 2-3 days until the smell is such that she HAD to do something. I think she was over by the airport trying to figure out where and how to dump the body. For whatever reason, it didn't seem like a good location. She eventually went to the area that seemed "remote" but close to home in her own mind and dumped the body in a typically lazy, sloppy fashion.

I honestly can't see her drugging Caylee and keeping her in the trunk except after she passed. I live in Fla. - It's hot even at night, even with no clothes on. Caylee would have been traumatized by that experience after one time and would have screamed and had a fit about getting back in that car, even in the passenger section. I'm sure she would have been covered with a prickly heat rash that CA or GA should have noticed. I just feel Caylee would have let it be known somehow if this were an ongoing thing.
I really think the chloroform was meant for her parents. KC is a HOMOCIDAL MONSTER who just ran out of time before she could pull off the plan, I think, she had for getting the house. They are the ones who probably had the life insurance. I think she planned to off her parents-but, wound up killing Caylee instead in a fit of blinding rage.:furious:

 

[okiedokietoo]

Haven't decided if it was a plan to dispose of Caylee so close to the A House. If there were clothes at the site and evidence that leads back to the A House KC has all of that covered. She told CA in Jail visit that she had told her before that Nanny had key to the house. That the Nanny was rich and had duplicates of Caylee's clothes, etc at her house. If there are KC's fingerprints on the sticky side of the tape, that's a different story. But if the prints are on the outside of the tape or bag Defense could use the Nanny had the key to the house story.
Although KC also said in Jail visitation with LA to look for Caylee in place that are known to A family, And said more than once that Caylee was close when asked where to look for her.

 

[Reannan]

In my earlier post, I had meant that Caylee would have already been passed out when the duct tape was applied and when she was placed in the trunk; but you are correct about heat rash and all sorts of other complications that would happen from being placed in the trunk of a car in Floriday during June. It just couldn't happen very often without someone dying or at the least, becoming very ill.

 

[okiedokietoo]

In terms of accidental death, I guess that would depend on how you define "accident". I can see this scenario:

KC had been using the chloroform to put Caylee to sleep in the trunk of the car for sometime while she was out partying. I can see her removing Caylee's clothing so that she would be "cooler" in the trunk of the car (which is, of course, ridiculous). I can see her using duct tape to keep Caylee from screaming if she woke up and being heard by someone in the parking lot. If Caylee was sick and vomited, she would have chocked to death on her own vomit. After discovering Caylee dead, KC does what she does best - pretend everything is just fine. She leaves the body in the car and drives around for 2-3 days until the smell is such that she HAD to do something. I think she was over by the airport trying to figure out where and how to dump the body. For whatever reason, it didn't seem like a good location. She eventually went to the area that seemed "remote" but close to home in her own mind and dumped the body in a typically lazy, sloppy fashion.

I agree with you. She was also around JBP and I think she was there trying to figure out what to do also. Maybe a lot of thought was put into how to sedate and kill her but not a lot of what to do after. She had a month to come up with the cover up story. Maybe replace items in the A House that were left at the site of the remains. The Nanny had the key to the house story. One that didn't work very well was the 30 day script on what to tell LE.

 

[Lynkei]

I'm sure this is in the wrong place...but I don't have a clue about where to put it. Anyway, NifterMedia has uploaded a new video on youtube entitled You Are my Sunshine, a 4 part series. Very nicely done.