Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[eddeva]

I think one can make too much of a lack of a 911 call. I had a rather serious accident with a hand-held power saw seven years ago (kicked back into my knee). Once I dragged myself into the house and got to the phone, I called my wife at work. I never thought of 911. Shock will do that.

i'm not so sure JWG. when i accidentally hurt myself, up to and including breaking bones, i'll call my husband or a friend for a lift to the hospital--but as a mother, when my child has suffered an injury it's a whole different story. shock or no shock.

 

[Indigo]

one thing I was looking at for June 16th

Computer activity stops around 3:00pm

2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds-in JG interview he at first said he thought he heard Caylee in the back ground....Heard KC yell *get down off the table*
If this is true Caylee could not have been in the pool3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds

ok....lets say JG didnt hear Caylee in the back ground and she was in the pool...and KC discovers that Caylee has drowned in the pool at 3:00 pm

This gives KC 35mins before she makes a all to AL

3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds

Then KC has another 35 mins until the flury of calls start and she heads back to AL

4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds

4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)


4:19 PM text from AL
4:19 PM calls AL
4:21 PM calls JG twice; second call 75 seconds
4:25 PM calls CA 3 seconds (now pinging near AL's apt)
6:31 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls home

How does KC get Caylee out of the pool.....get all there things together.....plus KC's clothes would be wet.....so she would have to change....get her self together and head to Tony's and not skip a beat?

I just dont see how an hour would be enough time to do all of that....
but I have never had it happen to me either...... so who knows right....just thought I would throw that out there....

a loving mother wouldnt just scoop her baby up and throw her in the trunk and then head off to her boy friends house and act like nothing happend....she would call 911

just my thoughts.....

What if Casey started to carry out her plan as soon as she arrived home? It could be that whatever transpired on the 15th had her seething. She may have returned home, put Caylee in the bath ( in an incapacitated state) and waited for "nature" to take its course.(I'm sorry to type this) In the meantime, she could have been talking on the telephone/multitasking to cover her actions. If Jesse heard Caylee in the background that day, it may have been part of the plan. We know that Kiomarie and Jesse have both reported hearing Caylee in the background during phone conversations with Casey. Both said that Casey actually talked to Caylee. I believe that Casey was playing videos of Caylee in the background to trick people into thinking Caylee was still alive. Sadly, Caylee was no longer living when Casey played these games.

 

[Indigo]

i'm not so sure JWG. when i accidentally hurt myself, up to and including breaking bones, i'll call my husband or a friend for a lift to the hospital--but as a mother, when my child has suffered an injury it's a whole different story. shock or no shock.

ITA, eddeva. Nothing trumps the fear of losing a child. It would be impossible to accept a child's death that quickly and just move on. JMO.

 

[technicalconfusion]

i'm not so sure JWG. when i accidentally hurt myself, up to and including breaking bones, i'll call my husband or a friend for a lift to the hospital--but as a mother, when my child has suffered an injury it's a whole different story. shock or no shock.

Exactly. Hurting oneself is way different than your child being hurt. When I had appendicitis, I put off going to the hospital - my mom had to talk me into it. If it had been my son, he would have been in the ER immediately.

 

[Crafti]

ITA, eddeva. Nothing trumps the fear of losing a child. It would be impossible to accept a child's death that quickly and just move on. JMO.

I don't have any problem accepting that KC killed her child and went about her life without skipping a beat. All the research I did about antisocial personality disorder, and passive aggressive behaviors etc. (due to someone I was involved with for 5 years). He could do things deeply hurtful, crazy even, and two minutes later just be casually mowing the grass or paying a bill. Not a second thought. He could be mean, indifferent and hurtful to me in private, but around other people he appeared like a great guy. He had a way of making it look like I was the one with a problem. At one point his mother even tried to say that I abused him. Families that have these monsters refuse to accept the truth as well.

This should probably be on the psychological profile thread, but it came up here. I also wanted to add that anyone else fascinated with this topic should check out information about "The Iceman" or Richard Kuklinski - a notorious serial killer. I don't know if this link will show up properly, but it's part 9 of 12 of the CBS interview with him. You Tube has most if not all of the 12 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZyrs7vF81s&feature=related

He talks about how he would commit murders and just carry on with his life. Granted he killed many, many people, but what is so interesting about this entire interview is hearing how he thinks, how devoid of emotion he is. After seeing this interview is when I told my X that I wanted a divorce, because I could see similar reasoning in him. Scarey stuff.

 

[Rumpole]

Hello. A test of these blogging powers bestowed on me.
Very new to blogging, but facinated by this case.
There is so much detail for us all to bloviate about, but the basic outline seems clear?

 

[debs]

Hello. A test of these blogging powers bestowed on me.
Very new to blogging, but facinated by this case.
There is so much detail for us all to bloviate about, but the basic outline seems clear?

You're not blogging; you're posting to a message board, and while we tend to speculate wildly at times, it also serves to narrow down the possibilities given the evidence and information we've been provided through the document dumps.

But you are correct in that the basic outline is clear: A child went missing and was found murdered in a garbage bag 1600 feet from where she lived.

 

[LancelotLink]

Has anything been said about any in depth investigations, cadaver dogs, etc. at the Sawgrass apartment #210?
I am just wondering if KC doped KC up then dropped her off in the vacant apartment. There are too many times when KC was nowhere...

 

[Rumpole]

You're not blogging; you're posting to a message board, and while we tend to speculate wildly at times, it also serves to narrow down the possibilities given the evidence and information we've been provided through the document dumps.

But you are correct in that the basic outline is clear: A child went missing and was found murdered in a garbage bag 1600 feet from where she lived.

Thanks DEBS.
My wife told me "I wasn't blogging" but I didn't listen!
So from now on I am "Message posting"

I have done an awful lot of message reading but still need to clarify a lot of the details in my own mind.

 

[impatientredhead]

Has anything been said about any in depth investigations, cadaver dogs, etc. at the Sawgrass apartment #210?
I am just wondering if KC doped KC up then dropped her off in the vacant apartment. There are too many times when KC was nowhere...

I have the same question but about the interior of the Anthony home. I am starting to wonder very seriously about the idea that Caylee died in that room the night of the 15th while Casey texted away with Tony.

 

[Indigo]

I don't have any problem accepting that KC killed her child and went about her life without skipping a beat. All the research I did about antisocial personality disorder, and passive aggressive behaviors etc. (due to someone I was involved with for 5 years). He could do things deeply hurtful, crazy even, and two minutes later just be casually mowing the grass or paying a bill. Not a second thought. He could be mean, indifferent and hurtful to me in private, but around other people he appeared like a great guy. He had a way of making it look like I was the one with a problem. At one point his mother even tried to say that I abused him. Families that have these monsters refuse to accept the truth as well.

This should probably be on the psychological profile thread, but it came up here. I also wanted to add that anyone else fascinated with this topic should check out information about "The Iceman" or Richard Kuklinski - a notorious serial killer. I don't know if this link will show up properly, but it's part 9 of 12 of the CBS interview with him. You Tube has most if not all of the 12 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZyrs7vF81s&feature=related

He talks about how he would commit murders and just carry on with his life. Granted he killed many, many people, but what is so interesting about this entire interview is hearing how he thinks, how devoid of emotion he is. After seeing this interview is when I told my X that I wanted a divorce, because I could see similar reasoning in him. Scarey stuff.

I can't imagine what the parents of these monsters must go through, Crafti. What horror they must endure if forced to come to terms with it. I'm so glad to hear you got away safe. At least that "Iceman" was good for something.

 

[Indigo]

Hello. A test of these blogging powers bestowed on me.
Very new to blogging, but facinated by this case.
There is so much detail for us all to bloviate about, but the basic outline seems clear?

Welcome, Hercule Poirot.

 

[Crafti]

I can't imagine what the parents of these monsters must go through, Crafti. What horror they must endure if forced to come to terms with it. I'm so glad to hear you got away safe. At least that "Iceman" was good for something.

Thanks, yeah, me too. One thing the doctor that did my x's testing said was that his diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, etc (he had several) didn't necessarily mean he was "dangerous" in general, but that in intimate or emotionally charged relationships he could definately be dangerous - to me for instance. After years of lies, emotional torture and one beating and hearing the "Iceman" interview, I decided that I understood enough.

I can also understand Jesse Grunds statement that he doesn't know what this Casey is capable of. My X doesn't even look like the same person to me anymore. I feel so sorry for everyone that knew and was involved with Casey, she has wrecked so many lives and ended one precious one.

 

[LancelotLink]

I have the same question but about the interior of the Anthony home. I am starting to wonder very seriously about the idea that Caylee died in that room the night of the 15th while Casey texted away with Tony.

I was leaning in that direction myself. The only bugaboo was George stating he saw them the next day. However, in his statements to LE he related that KC told him she would be gone overnight as would Caylee.


Other sleuths, Nehemiah, okiedokietoo and kat mentioned the air mattress and the empty apartment. Their idea makes sense to me. For some reason, the Sawgrass Apartments keep coming into play, in my mind.
I'm not suggesting that anyone living or working there had anything to do with anything. However, it appears that friends to KC were merely a means to an end.

 

[Rumpole]

The devil is in the detail of this case.
It seems clear that KC killed Caylee 15 or 16th. Finally dumped the body 24th. No accident, but I am not sure if it was a "fit of rage" or something planned for some time.
She had the body in the trunk of her car for several days and possibly moved it 1 or more times to the back yard while she contemplated what to do. Fake some sort of "accident"? She probably thought about faking a drowning and moved the pool ladder. Maybe she even tried putting Caylee in the pool? She borrowed the shovel and thought about/tried digging, but gave that up. After these attemps for 2/3 days she wrapped and bagged the body which limited the decomposition products escaping into her car. I think the duct tape was to stem decomposition fluids as others have suggested. She still drove around unsure what to do when and if she thought about it at all. I think she had the bagged body in the trunk when the "Gas Can" incident occured and nearly got caught by GA and she dumped the body where it was found as she drove away from that close shave. That is 24th. The smell may not have been that noticable yet. Fluids had leaked into the trunk but were covered by clothing etc. The smell developed from these fluids as time went on, even after the body etc was disposed of. [Just a thought no real evidence, but perhaps she was contemplating staging a burning acident with the gas cans? Perhaps burning the car with a "Kidnapped" (Car Jacked) Caylee in it?]

 

[Susanlee]

one thing I was looking at for June 16th

Computer activity stops around 3:00pm

2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds-in JG interview he at first said he thought he heard Caylee in the back ground....Heard KC yell *get down off the table*
If this is true Caylee could not have been in the pool3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds

ok....lets say JG didnt hear Caylee in the back ground and she was in the pool...and KC discovers that Caylee has drowned in the pool at 3:00 pm

This gives KC 35mins before she makes a all to AL

3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds

Then KC has another 35 mins until the flury of calls start and she heads back to AL

4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds

4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)


4:19 PM text from AL
4:19 PM calls AL
4:21 PM calls JG twice; second call 75 seconds
4:25 PM calls CA 3 seconds (now pinging near AL's apt)
6:31 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls home

How does KC get Caylee out of the pool.....get all there things together.....plus KC's clothes would be wet.....so she would have to change....get her self together and head to Tony's and not skip a beat?

I just dont see how an hour would be enough time to do all of that....
but I have never had it happen to me either...... so who knows right....just thought I would throw that out there....

a loving mother wouldnt just scoop her baby up and throw her in the trunk and then head off to her boy friends house and act like nothing happend....she would call 911

just my thoughts.....

At 2:52 when JG hears KC say "get down off the table", he assumes KC is speaking to Caylee.....and that is part of her plan? Leave a trail she is still alive/well? Just a thought. Sorry if already posted.

 

[Rumpole]

I think the items found with the body were all the things that were in the trunk with the body. Possibly included in the body bag or separate?
I think she was surprised to find the smell remained desite emptying the trunk. She may have tried some cleaning? Using solvents etc (for example Carbon Tetrachloride - dry cleaning fluid) which may account for "Chloroform". Perhaps CA's cleaning included choline based cleaners? I would like to know how specific the tests for Chloroform are? There are may carbon-chlorine compounds. Many are solvents with similar chemical composition.
When attempts to remove the smell failed, I think KC threw a bag of AL's rubbish in the trunk to mask/account for smell. Finally she parked the car (Did not run out of gas) near the dumpster at Amscott, again to account for the smell which by then was noticable from the outside. I agree she hoped it would be stolen and at least confuse the issues.
There would have been a wealth of evidence in the trunk. Cindy and george destroyed a lot of that. Intentionally??

 

[JWG]

Exactly. Hurting oneself is way different than your child being hurt. When I had appendicitis, I put off going to the hospital - my mom had to talk me into it. If it had been my son, he would have been in the ER immediately.

But that is you, and we are talking about KC. KC's reaction to her daughter's death (not calling 911, acting like everything was fine, partying, etc) does not prove a murder occurred.

While highly unusual, not calling 911 following an accident is not unheard of. In fact, the following case occurred at the same time Caylee was missing:

Mother pleads guilty in death of infant left in hot car
July 14th, 2008 @ 4:00pm

Kamilyn Hadley, the Clearfield mother who accidentally left her child in a hot car last month, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor negligent homicide today.

Police said, initially, it appeared to have been an accident. But after investigating, police say there was some evidence of negligence.

She left her 5-month-old son, Daniel Hadley, in her car for two hours. The baby initially survived but died at the hospital a week later.

According to a police report, Kamilyn didn't call 911, and neither did the woman she was visiting with.

In exchange for the guilty plea, the judge placed her on probation and ordered her and her husband to counseling and parenting classes.

Hadley's attorney, Richard Van Wagner, said, "At the end of the period of probation, if she has fully completed everything, probation will terminate, and we can file a motion with the court to reduce the charge from a class A misdemeanor to a class B misdemeanor."

Hadley's attorney felt the judge was trying to make an example but acted appropriately in the case.

The difference is, I contend, that Casey tried to cover it (an accident) up. A cover up demanded that she act like nothing happened.

ETA: Another case from earlier this year, this one involving a 1 year old who drowns while the mother is drinking.

 

[Rumpole]

My view is that KC would have been willing to explain away an accident. That's what she does best. She would spin it to be "Not my fault".
I think she was looking to set up an accident such as a pool drowning.

 

[impatientredhead]

But that is you, and we are talking about KC. KC's reaction to her daughter's death (not calling 911, acting like everything was fine, partying, etc) does not prove a murder occurred.

While highly unusual, not calling 911 following an accident is not unheard of. In fact, the following case occurred at the same time Caylee was missing:

The difference is, I contend, that Casey tried to cover it (an accident) up. A cover up demanded that she act like nothing happened.

ETA: Another case from earlier this year, this one involving a 1 year old who drowns while the mother is drinking.

What exactly points to this being an accident? If we aren't suppose to look at her actions afterwards as evidence, than not being abusive before shouldn't factor into thinking this was an accident...