Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[natsound]

There are so many great theories on this thread and this entire forum but in all honesty, I doubt we will ever know what really happened.

KC will never confess, there is no cause of death, there wasn't enough evidence with the remains to be able to even pin-point an exact date of death, no witness to the crime, etc....

But wouldn't it be great if....drifting off to dream world....In the middle of the trial KC stands up and reveals all...."I'm tired of all this speculation...I went through the secret door in my bedroom into the library and killed her with the candlestick. Prof Plum and Mrs. Peacock helped with the cover-up."....OK, I know this isn't a joking matter but I stand by my original statement that we will never know what really happened.

I agree with you that we will probably never know what "really" happened. But there's still hope that SA has her fingerprints on that duct tape, or some other tell-tale evidence. It ain't over till it's over.

 

[natsound]

Actually I have long had some questions or doubts about the exact chain of events on the 16th, or what GA really saw that day.

Also keep in mind KC really does appear to not operate the way the rest of us do. She will boldly BS her way through anything, and does not seem squeemish when she does it. remember leading the cops into Universal Studios to go to her office? She does not sneak, she does not hide, she boldly does things in plain sight in such a way that noone questions.

I think Caylee died either very late June 15th or very early morning June 16th. I think what GA saw leaving that day was KC carrying Caylee's already dead body out under the guise of carrying a sleeping child to the car to go to the nanny's. She just picked up the body, wrapped in in a blanket, maybe with her oft mentioned sunglasses on, and carried it through the house past her father to the car. Waving good bye as she went.

I think George saw Caylee after she died twice, but only came to realize that much later. Once when KC carried her out of the house on the 16th, and once as a mysterious laundry bag in the car trunk the day of the gas can incident.

Wow, what a theory!! Could be, I suppose!

But to me that's not realistic... if that were the case, I don't think GA would have mentioned seeing Caylee at all that day. Why would he have made up such a detailed story for LE about Caylee having her back on (sunglasses too?), then at the same time tell them he knew what the smell was in the car, he'd smelled it before.

What I'm trying to say is, he would only have lied to LE about KC and Caylee walking out of the house if he felt the need to lie, right? Then he also would have lied about the smell in the car.

 

[justsaying]

bold by me

See, this is something that I totally don't understand about this case. Casey made up the nanny way before Caylee went missing. Was it just a total coincidence that a ZFG just happened to be at the SGA on the same day as Casey? IIRC, Casey had mentioned Zanny the Nanny to friends and her mother well before that day. If so, what are the odds that this would occur? A woman with the same name as the one Casey made up months prior just happens to visit the same apartment complex where Casey first tried to say she dropped off Caylee.

The lady at Sawgrass was not a ZFG, just ZG. And yes, I think that KC just put these two names together back when speaking to RG. And I think that she got access to the office at Sawgrass and found this ZG name and car info and kids (which she later gave to a sister Samantha). I think all these things did "just come together" for KC. She then added the hyphenated Fernandez-Gonzalez cause to KC more info is more believable. It worked before for her. Coincidences do happen. Just Saying.

 

[weasel]

The lady at Sawgrass was not a ZFG, just ZG. And yes, I think that KC just put these two names together back when speaking to RG. And I think that she got access to the office at Sawgrass and found this ZG name and car info and kids (which she later gave to a sister Samantha). I think all these things did "just come together" for KC. She then added the hyphenated Fernandez-Gonzalez cause to KC more info is more believable. It worked before for her. Coincidences do happen. Just Saying.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Do we know if Casey even gave "Zanny" a last name in the months before Caylee went missing? Or did Casey just see the info on ZG and decide to add the "Fernandez" part on her own?

 

[natsound]

Oh, I see what you're saying. Do we know if Casey even gave "Zanny" a last name in the months before Caylee went missing? Or did Casey just see the info on ZG and decide to add the "Fernandez" part on her own?

IIRC, she never gave Zani a last name until she was caught. She only mentioned to few people that she had a nanny named Zani, and she had told RM her nanny's name was "Zenita". In addition, there had been a computer search for Zenaida before Caylee went missing. Can't remember the details of that search.

 

[eddeva]

Actually I have long had some questions or doubts about the exact chain of events on the 16th, or what GA really saw that day.

Also keep in mind KC really does appear to not operate the way the rest of us do. She will boldly BS her way through anything, and does not seem squeemish when she does it. remember leading the cops into Universal Studios to go to her office? She does not sneak, she does not hide, she boldly does things in plain sight in such a way that noone questions.

I think Caylee died either very late June 15th or very early morning June 16th. I think what GA saw leaving that day was KC carrying Caylee's already dead body out under the guise of carrying a sleeping child to the car to go to the nanny's. She just picked up the body, wrapped in in a blanket, maybe with her oft mentioned sunglasses on, and carried it through the house past her father to the car. Waving good bye as she went.

I think George saw Caylee after she died twice, but only came to realize that much later. Once when KC carried her out of the house on the 16th, and once as a mysterious laundry bag in the car trunk the day of the gas can incident.

i like this theory too, except that george knew caylee was wearing shorts, and if he saw that he'd have seen the lividity, unless she was just dead.
i have to wonder too why casey would take a chance like this instead of just waiting until the coast was clear.

 

[eddeva]

IIRC, she never gave Zani a last name until she was caught. She only mentioned to few people that she had a nanny named Zani, and she had told RM her nanny's name was "Zenita". In addition, there had been a computer search for Zenaida before Caylee went missing. Can't remember the details of that search.

rev grund claims to have heard the full name when the zanni story first emerged, but you have to wonder how clear someone's recollection of being told an unfamiliar name, once, years earlier would be?

 

[weasel]

IIRC, she never gave Zani a last name until she was caught. She only mentioned to few people that she had a nanny named Zani, and she had told RM her nanny's name was "Zenita". In addition, there had been a computer search for Zenaida before Caylee went missing. Can't remember the details of that search.

I hadn't heard "Zenita" before. Wow. Didn't know that. The computer search for "Zenaida" also has me puzzled. Why would she do that, do you suppose?

 

[justsaying]

i like this theory too, except that george knew caylee was wearing shorts, and if he saw that he'd have seen the lividity, unless she was just dead.
i have to wonder too why casey would take a chance like this instead of just waiting until the coast was clear.

Grandpa might have wanted to say hi to the baby before she left. So this bulldozer move worked best for KC. Just breeze by with a "gosh, I'm late, got to get her to the nanny's and get to work, may not be home tonight" Up front and in your face worked for this girl! Just brazen your way through and they will believe anything.

 

[faefrost]

i like this theory too, except that george knew caylee was wearing shorts, and if he saw that he'd have seen the lividity, unless she was just dead.
i have to wonder too why casey would take a chance like this instead of just waiting until the coast was clear.

KC lives for taking chances. Unlike the rest of us she does not calculate or worry about odds. She simply does. And because she simply does without reservations, second thoughts or doubts, she more often then not succeeds. It is very indicative of her personality type / disorder. It is the halmark of a sociopath. They live straight lines rather than curving around other people or obstacles.

I really doubt George himself truly remembers all of those details about what Caylee was wearing the last time he saw her. KC had some time with him before the police were fully involved and interviewing, and before they reasonably suspected that Caylee was murdered by KC's hand. He had the chance to ask his daughter some basic cop type questions including "what was caylee last wearing" I am sure he got a classic KC manipulative answer back like "Daddy don't you remember, she was wearing her little pink top and jean shorts with her white sunglasses. You saw her when we left?" GA will subconsciously fill in the details and from then on that is what he remembers her last wearing. KC is rather apparently a master at this sort of maniplulation, particularly were GA is concerned.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Grandpa might have wanted to say hi to the baby before she left. So this bulldozer move worked best for KC. Just breeze by with a "gosh, I'm late, got to get her to the nanny's and get to work, may not be home tonight" Up front and in your face worked for this girl! Just brazen your way through and they will believe anything.

But what if the body had rigor mortis? Not sure when it kicks in and then abates. Also, the smell could have started already 12 hours or so later, plus the blood would pool where she had been laying, and it would look like a huge bruise. (the livor mortis that eddeva refers to above). I know KC has guts, but I doubt she would chance this one; think of how she acted about the trunk.
But who knows, if GA was preoccupied its conceivable.

 

[cecybeans]

KC lives for taking chances. Unlike the rest of us she does not calculate or worry about odds. She simply does. And because she simply does without reservations, second thoughts or doubts, she more often then not succeeds. It is very indicative of her personality type / disorder. It is the halmark of a sociopath. They live straight lines rather than curving around other people or obstacles.

I really doubt George himself truly remembers all of those details about what Caylee was wearing the last time he saw her. KC had some time with him before the police were fully involved and interviewing, and before they reasonably suspected that Caylee was murdered by KC's hand. He had the chance to ask his daughter some basic cop type questions including "what was caylee last wearing" I am sure he got a classic KC manipulative answer back like "Daddy don't you remember, she was wearing her little pink top and jean shorts with her white sunglasses. You saw her when we left?" GA will subconsciously fill in the details and from then on that is what he remembers her last wearing. KC is rather apparently a master at this sort of maniplulation, particularly were GA is concerned.

That's a great phrase about straight lines. Got that full-frontal approach from her mom, I'll bet.

I often thought that GA got that outfit info for Caylee straight from the police report. Especially since when LE figured out the date was off - he needed to corroborate her story about what she was wearing that "last day" she was seen alive.

And I felt the same way about RG's memory and how it would be easy to superimpose "Zenaida" which had been in the news continuously after this happened, with a name KC had tossed off about her babysitter years ago. He might not have done it consciously. Although if the ZG22 stuff is relevant, it might have been a wry joke she was using about who would be watching Caylee going forward as the "nanny".

 

[eddeva]

KC lives for taking chances. Unlike the rest of us she does not calculate or worry about odds. She simply does. And because she simply does without reservations, second thoughts or doubts, she more often then not succeeds. It is very indicative of her personality type / disorder. It is the halmark of a sociopath. They live straight lines rather than curving around other people or obstacles.

I really doubt George himself truly remembers all of those details about what Caylee was wearing the last time he saw her. KC had some time with him before the police were fully involved and interviewing, and before they reasonably suspected that Caylee was murdered by KC's hand. He had the chance to ask his daughter some basic cop type questions including "what was caylee last wearing" I am sure he got a classic KC manipulative answer back like "Daddy don't you remember, she was wearing her little pink top and jean shorts with her white sunglasses. You saw her when we left?" GA will subconsciously fill in the details and from then on that is what he remembers her last wearing. KC is rather apparently a master at this sort of maniplulation, particularly were GA is concerned.

but wouldn't george have remembered caylee, completely covered by a blanket and being spirited out of the house? wouldn't he be likely to ask why the hell she was wrapped up like that in the middle of summer? it would be an unusual thing to witness, worthy of comment and certainly memorable.

 

[faefrost]

but wouldn't george have remembered caylee, completely covered by a blanket and being spirited out of the house? wouldn't he be likely to ask why the hell she was wrapped up like that in the middle of summer? it would be an unusual thing to witness, worthy of comment and certainly memorable.

I dont think she shrouded the child in the blanket and carried her out like a load. I think she dressed Caylee, put her sunglasses on, probably threw the favorite pooh blanket loosely around her, and carried her out upright and 1 handed, just as any parent would a sleeping 2 year old. Walking right past GA while he was watching his favorite tv show, so not paying alot of attention.

Rigor really doesn't start to set in until 4 hours+ after death, and levidity (sp?) will not be all that apparent quite yet. At worst she would look pale which the oft mentioned sunglasses and pooh blanket were probably used to distract from. But at its core I honestly think she simply boldly picked up and walked her dead child past her father. Something noone would ever even consider someone might be doing. Georges mind just filled in the blanks of a normal morning beyond that.

I am sure that it is something that he has been mentally second guessing himself over since December if not July. And he has been very very careful to not speculate on what he might have seen, both that morning and in the trunk on the 24th with LE. Regarding those events he has been very by the book.

 

[Bittiness39]

http://www.wftv.com/news/19489838/detail.html
Reading that article gave me the chills. I present it only because this man duct tapes the mouths of the little girls he kidnaps. In Orlando and Winterpark (where CA worked). Too bad (NOT and I mean seriously NOT because I believe 100% that KC is guilty guilty guilty of whatever caused Caylee to leave this earth) KC locked herself into the dumb lie of the Zanny the Nanny napping.

 

[natsound]

I hadn't heard "Zenita" before. Wow. Didn't know that. The computer search for "Zenaida" also has me puzzled. Why would she do that, do you suppose?

I've had a loose theory that KC was somehow obsessed with the idea of a zani the nanny, so she began searching for a Zenaida. There's also the theory that there's actually some connection with this particular Zenaida, through a friend of a friend of a friend on Facebook. That's been discussed in detail on these boards in past months. if you search through the Zenaida threads you'll come across it.


RM talks about "Zenita" in his first interview with LE.

 

[ibyoungr]

http://www.wftv.com/news/19489838/detail.html
Reading that article gave me the chills. I present it only because this man duct tapes the mouths of the little girls he kidnaps. In Orlando and Winterpark (where CA worked). Too bad (NOT and I mean seriously NOT because I believe 100% that KC is guilty guilty guilty of whatever caused Caylee to leave this earth) KC locked herself into the dumb lie of the Zanny the Nanny napping.

I read this and thought the same thing. I wonder if the defense is going to pin this on him or try to use him as reasonable doubt.

Not only did she lock herself into the nanny lie.. but she has DECOMP in the trunk of the car. If the DECOMP was not there... well then she would have a good chance with reasonable doubt with this dude running around. However....:waitasec: she went out partying.. and didn't report her daughter missing....

I think as a mother.. I would rather it be a bad nasty man than a mother.

 

[ibyoungr]

I've had a loose theory that KC was somehow obsessed with the idea of a zani the nanny, so she began searching for a Zenaida. There's also the theory that there's actually some connection with this particular Zenaida, through a friend of a friend of a friend on Facebook. That's been discussed in detail on these boards in past months. if you search through the Zenaida threads you'll come across it.


RM talks about "Zenita" in his first interview with LE.

I believe that they have determined the Zenaida searches happened on July 16th. NOT BEFORE. Look in the Mythbusters thread.

 

[ibyoungr]

I've had a loose theory that KC was somehow obsessed with the idea of a zani the nanny, so she began searching for a Zenaida. There's also the theory that there's actually some connection with this particular Zenaida, through a friend of a friend of a friend on Facebook. That's been discussed in detail on these boards in past months. if you search through the Zenaida threads you'll come across it.


RM talks about "Zenita" in his first interview with LE.

I believe that they have determined the Zenaida searches happened on July 16th. NOT BEFORE. Look in the Mythbusters thread.

 

[eddeva]

I dont think she shrouded the child in the blanket and carried her out like a load. I think she dressed Caylee, put her sunglasses on, probably threw the favorite pooh blanket loosely around her, and carried her out upright and 1 handed, just as any parent would a sleeping 2 year old. Walking right past GA while he was watching his favorite tv show, so not paying alot of attention.

Rigor really doesn't start to set in until 4 hours+ after death, and levidity (sp?) will not be all that apparent quite yet. At worst she would look pale which the oft mentioned sunglasses and pooh blanket were probably used to distract from. But at its core I honestly think she simply boldly picked up and walked her dead child past her father. Something noone would ever even consider someone might be doing. Georges mind just filled in the blanks of a normal morning beyond that.

I am sure that it is something that he has been mentally second guessing himself over since December if not July. And he has been very very careful to not speculate on what he might have seen, both that morning and in the trunk on the 24th with LE. Regarding those events he has been very by the book.

if that were true though then caylee would need to have been killed no more than 5hrs (lividity would be obvious and fixing) before casey left and not the night before. i just don't see why she would choose to kill caylee w/ both of her parents in the house when waiting a few hours would give her total privacy.
i'm just someone who looks for the simplest explanation faefrost. psychopaths always take the path of least resistance, the easiest way, and murdering your child in a house w/ two other people in it at least one of which you'll have to get past w/ a dead body in tow is not the easy way. i realize that casey isn't bright but she isn't learning impaired either, she'd have to know it's gonna be easier to wait.