Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)

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Sorry, I keep going from theory to Smoking Gun threads and probably getting OT. I do think the duct tape and the manner in which it was placed on the head are the only smoking gun that I can see. I do hope, however, that there is a home run of a smoker somewhere waiting to come out!
I'm thinking the pictures of the duct tape on Caylee will be the real smoking gun.We haven't seen those,but I suspect it leaves no doubt as to KC's intent to kill Caylee.All the other eveidence will point to KC as the killer.
The testimony from Dr. G will be right up there with the pictures.She does a nice job on the stand.
 
I don't see this as a "smoking gun theory", but was directed here from the old theories thread...so, it's here I will post.

I have been thinking about Casey's call to Jesse on June 16th. It seems out of place to me, not a part of her set pattern's, like the phone calls to her mother around quitting time. Here's my thinking on this...

Cindy had been pressing Casey harder and harder before June 16th, in an attempt to make Casey take on more responsibility for Caylee. Cindy knew Casey wasn't working..ABC party pics. This attempt to get Casey to be more responsible had been going on for a while, but increased in intensity during the May, early June period.

I think Cindy told Casey that she wasn't going to watch Caylee on the 16th (or possibly this conversation happened late on the 15th), anyway Cindy was putting her foot down. Casey leaves the A home on the afternoon of the 16th with Caylee still alive, but not knowing if she was going to be able to find a babysitter for the night. Thus Casey's calls to Cindy, she was trying to find child care. Then she calls TL at 4:19 after several calls to Cindy in which she was unsuccessful in arranging child care. After calling TL she calls Jesse...why ? I believe she was checking him out to see what he was doing that night, thinking if he was free she might ask him to watch Caylee (she's desperate at this point). She hasn't asked Jesse to watch Caylee in a long time, but she's looking for an answer to her "problem". Jesse during the call mentions he's working that night or whatever plans he had and Casey doesn't ever ask him to watch Caylee. She calls Cindy's cell one more time after the call to Jesse at 4:24 pm. Casey knows her mother doesn't usually pick up on her cell phone during work hours so she called the cell to leave a message. Her intent was not to talk to her mom, but to leave a message that she would be with Caylee at Zani's all night, not to worry (in other words don't bother me anymore tonight). I believe the murder happens shortly around the time of the last call to Cindy's cell...around 4:30. Don't know where she managed to murder Caylee at, maybe she pulled over to a place where noone could see her. I have to believe Casey brought the duct tape with her when she left the house...why ? Because she knew she might not have a babysitter for that night with TL. I believe she already knew, when she left the home, that her mom was getting tired of it and had said no, I will not watch Caylee. I think Casey's back up plan when she left the home on the 16th was to get rid of Caylee if she couldn't find a babysitter. Now this isn't even logical to most people, if you don't have a sitter you don't go out, but this is Casey and I believe she had "processed" these thoughts before (thoughts of killing Caylee).

These are just some thoughts I have been running over in my head, feel free to poke holes as needed...

Casey's cellphone calls on the afternoon of June 16th, 2008

3:03pm - George Anthony's Cell (67 min to the next call) *Casey's father
4:10pm - Cindy Anthony's Work (1 minutes to the next call) *Casey's mother
4:11pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell (2 minutes to the next call) *
4:13pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell (1 minutes to the next call) *
4:14pm - Cindy Anthony's Work (5 minutes to the next call) *
4:19pm - Anthony Lazzaro (2 minutes to the next call) *Casey's Boyfriend
4:21pm - Jesse Grund (3 minutes to the next call) *Casey's ex-Boyfriend
4:24pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell (8 minutes to the next call) *Casey's mother
6:32pm - The Anthony Home (1 minute to the next call) *Casey's mother and father's house
6:33pm - Voicemail (33 minutes to the next call) *
7:06pm - The Anthony Home (14 minutes to the next call) *Casey's mother and father's house
7:20pm - Amy Huizenga (? anymore calls after that) *Casey's close friend at the time

Makes sense to me. Maybe she had decided she would have to keep Caylee in the trunk while at TL's,but something really ticked her off [no one answering,Caylee crying for Cindy] and it pushed her over the edge to cover both mouth AND nose.
 
IDK, even after writing that last post where I believed Caylee's TOD to be after Casey left the house on the 16th, I have gone on to read more theories and posts here and am back at square one. A poster made a very good argument for the TOD being before she left the house that afternoon of the 16th, so I guess now I am on the fence once again. If it happened after she left the house fitting the duct tape in doesn't happen easily, it more fits, IMO, with a murder at the house. For some reason I feel the need to "figure this out", but something tells me that's not gonna happen...
 
As far as I can gather a scenario together with the evidence released, my thinking has always been Caylee was murdered in the A clan compound. I say compound because it wasn't a home filled with love, a house-nope, compound where she was taken in and out of at the whim of an adult to be paraded around like a prized puppy. I digressed there for a moment, sorry.

There was a huge discussion at the A compound sometime back on June 8-9-10 where KC was confronted by CA/GA about $$$ and CA/GA being left with "Caylee" to watch. June 15 CA learned about her dad's bank account. KC flits into the compound without a clue that CA has learned about the stolen funds. Caylee is either awake or in bed - semi awake waiting for KC to "crash" with her. In the heat of this now full blown yelling/screaming/fist thowing/hands on neck confrontation Caylee could have been physically in the area and somehow was hurt.

Caylee was murdered in KC's bed.

I believe the smoking gun will be evidence LE pulled from KC's room early on and will be a combo of items found with Caylee's remains as well as evidence found in the A compound. I have to go back and research the evidence removed back in Aug I believe where LE took household items, bathroom items, where they did a black light testing on walls and materials. I don't remember seeing the forensic results. JWG I believe recently came up with the black bag info, :clap::clap::clap: which only put more value into my theory/scenario that Caylee was murdered in the A compound. Both JWG and BJB have devoted hours of time to give greatly detailed explanations of forensic evidence released which has been invaluable for me interpreting this forensic evidence. :clap::clap::clap: .

Add to this scenario, CA had discovered on July 17 08 immediately her new found public persona; loving the media in your face exposure, being the center of attention and able to control it (remember her lying isn't a crime statement :liar: ). CA goes into clean up mode to remake over KC's image by changing KCs and Caylees rooms. KC refused to sleep in her room while on bond, instead slept on a blowup mattress in CA/GA bedroom :waitasec: along with AD :bang: while watching movies and having a "girly sleepover" :doh:. KC refusing to stay in the compound while on bond, opted to spend six or more hours a day at JB crew's office with her 2" white binders. When KC did spend time at the compound, she made brownies and whatnot's for everyone :hand: .

There is just too much more evidence to add to this and my post would take an entire page of this thread.

Caylee was murdered in KC's bed by KC. CA/GA knew immediately. LA knew PRIOR to the 3rd 911 call. The nanny story was initiated and from there we all know what happened; the denial lies, the moving of evidence, it all is known except how exactly Caylee was murdered.
 
I think that the g/fathers check happened in May (via Rick or Shirley). That would have been the 8-9-10th of June. I think there was a big blow up on these dates.

I think Caylee told CA something of KC's dealings on the 15th of June that started the blow up on the 15th. If GA did see the girls on the 16th---maybe KC walked out with a dead Caylee wrapped in the Pooh blanket with KC telling GA that she was asleep. Maybe that is why he threw up---when he realized that Caylee was dead when he last saw her. There is something very wrong with his story of the 16th.
 
That has me wondering, too. The medical examiner specifically ruled it a homicide (rather than a potential accident) -- which means that the "silver bullet" evidence of homicide (and as a result, the DP) should be related to what was found in the autopsy, right?

???

More like what wasnt found in the autopsy.. along with the examination of any previous medical records in order to rule out a foregoing medical problem..
 
I think that the g/fathers check happened in May (via Rick or Shirley). That would have been the 8-9-10th of June. I think there was a big blow up on these dates.

I think Caylee told CA something of KC's dealings on the 15th of June that started the blow up on the 15th. If GA did see the girls on the 16th---maybe KC walked out with a dead Caylee wrapped in the Pooh blanket with KC telling GA that she was asleep. Maybe that is why he threw up---when he realized that Caylee was dead when he last saw her. There is something very wrong with his story of the 16th.

Mama, I believe GA's story about June 16 is just that a story built around the fact the Caylee was murdered.

Problems with the A clan is that for years the lies told by the clan have never truly, other than RP to CA after Caylee was reported missing, have been challenged by anyone. Not family, associates, friends or acquaintances. Everyone KNEW the A clan lied and no one stepped up to the plate to call a spade a spade. The A compound was built like a house of cards. Blow on it gently and watch it, piece by piece disintegrate.

GA knew it was coming down. The card piece he was holding up was slowing tearing apart. The fact he had to admit in public and to LE/FBI that decomp was in the car was enough for him to acknowledge in his brain that the truth was coming out and new versions of the lie continued and continue to this date.

Lying was and is an everyday of every year occurrence within that matrix of the A's. Whether or not GA comes clean to cleanse his soul, only time will tell. I don't hold out waiting for CA/LA/KC doing it at all. I won't hold my breath for any of them to actually tell the truth.

With this case, there are no shades of the truth. No little white lies, no fabricated versions to make them feel better about themselves. Nope.

Only the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth on Caylee's memory should flow from their lips.
 
:clap::clap::clap:

countzero post 267---very profound---right on---Amen!
 
I also believe Caylee was murdered in the house in Casey's bedroom. First time she was bonded out, Cindy revealed in media interview that Casey wouldn't sleep in her own room for awhile and slept in Cindy and George's bedroom. Could be her memory of what last transpired in her bedroom that caused her uneasiness. I had assumed at the time it was fear of the throngs outside protesting and that may be. But were they protesting that early on? I don't remember.

Edited to add: Just re-read Countzero's post. Hadn't read it through before I posted the above. Seems GMTA!

As far as I can gather a scenario together with the evidence released, my thinking has always been Caylee was murdered in the A clan compound. I say compound because it wasn't a home filled with love, a house-nope, compound where she was taken in and out of at the whim of an adult to be paraded around like a prized puppy. I digressed there for a moment, sorry.

There was a huge discussion at the A compound sometime back on June 8-9-10 where KC was confronted by CA/GA about $$$ and CA/GA being left with "Caylee" to watch. June 15 CA learned about her dad's bank account. KC flits into the compound without a clue that CA has learned about the stolen funds. Caylee is either awake or in bed - semi awake waiting for KC to "crash" with her. In the heat of this now full blown yelling/screaming/fist thowing/hands on neck confrontation Caylee could have been physically in the area and somehow was hurt.

Caylee was murdered in KC's bed.

I believe the smoking gun will be evidence LE pulled from KC's room early on and will be a combo of items found with Caylee's remains as well as evidence found in the A compound. I have to go back and research the evidence removed back in Aug I believe where LE took household items, bathroom items, where they did a black light testing on walls and materials. I don't remember seeing the forensic results. JWG I believe recently came up with the black bag info, :clap::clap::clap: which only put more value into my theory/scenario that Caylee was murdered in the A compound. Both JWG and BJB have devoted hours of time to give greatly detailed explanations of forensic evidence released which has been invaluable for me interpreting this forensic evidence. :clap::clap::clap: .

Add to this scenario, CA had discovered on July 17 08 immediately her new found public persona; loving the media in your face exposure, being the center of attention and able to control it (remember her lying isn't a crime statement :liar: ). CA goes into clean up mode to remake over KC's image by changing KCs and Caylees rooms. KC refused to sleep in her room while on bond, instead slept on a blowup mattress in CA/GA bedroom :waitasec: along with AD :bang: while watching movies and having a "girly sleepover" :doh:. KC refusing to stay in the compound while on bond, opted to spend six or more hours a day at JB crew's office with her 2" white binders. When KC did spend time at the compound, she made brownies and whatnot's for everyone :hand: .

There is just too much more evidence to add to this and my post would take an entire page of this thread.

Caylee was murdered in KC's bed by KC. CA/GA knew immediately. LA knew PRIOR to the 3rd 911 call. The nanny story was initiated and from there we all know what happened; the denial lies, the moving of evidence, it all is known except how exactly Caylee was murdered.
 
I keep wondering about the "hair mat" that was talked about in the autopsy. Could it have been a sign of Caylee struggling to breathe with her nose and mouth taped up....her head turning from side to side in a frenzy trying to breathe????? How horrible. DP warranted....

I have always worried about this from the first time i heard of the matting of her hair. So sad!
 
I have always worried about this from the first time i heard of the matting of her hair. So sad!

Not to gross ya out there, but I think the matted hair was a combo of Caylee's poor tiny body being tossed around like trash, the elements she was subjected to, both weather and KC, and the critters who live in that immediate area.
 
Not to gross ya out there, but I think the matted hair was a combo of Caylee's poor tiny body being tossed around like trash, the elements she was subjected to, both weather and KC, and the critters who live in that immediate area.

I agree. I think it was about the elements, mainly.
 
I think the sticker sheet w/hearts will be very telling and whose fingerprints are all over the sheet.
 
Mama, I believe GA's story about June 16 is just that a story built around the fact the Caylee was murdered.

Problems with the A clan is that for years the lies told by the clan have never truly, other than RP to CA after Caylee was reported missing, have been challenged by anyone. Not family, associates, friends or acquaintances. Everyone KNEW the A clan lied and no one stepped up to the plate to call a spade a spade. The A compound was built like a house of cards. Blow on it gently and watch it, piece by piece disintegrate.

GA knew it was coming down. The card piece he was holding up was slowing tearing apart. The fact he had to admit in public and to LE/FBI that decomp was in the car was enough for him to acknowledge in his brain that the truth was coming out and new versions of the lie continued and continue to this date.

Lying was and is an everyday of every year occurrence within that matrix of the A's. Whether or not GA comes clean to cleanse his soul, only time will tell. I don't hold out waiting for CA/LA/KC doing it at all. I won't hold my breath for any of them to actually tell the truth.

With this case, there are no shades of the truth. No little white lies, no fabricated versions to make them feel better about themselves. Nope.

Only the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth on Caylee's memory should flow from their lips.
Wonderful post Count Zero ! I have for the longest time believed that Caylee was murdered after Casey left the house on the 16th...but, the use of duct tape doesn't fit real well with that. The duct tape speaks to a murder at the home on the night of the 15th, or at least before she left on the 16th. If it happened at home while Cindy was there, I can see Casey using the tape to lessen the risk of being caught.

My hope is that the state has this all figured out and presentable for a jury...
 
Wonderful post Count Zero ! I have for the longest time believed that Caylee was murdered after Casey left the house on the 16th...but, the use of duct tape doesn't fit real well with that. The duct tape speaks to a murder at the home on the night of the 15th, or at least before she left on the 16th. If it happened at home while Cindy was there, I can see Casey using the tape to lessen the risk of being caught.

My hope is that the state has this all figured out and presentable for a jury...

Yeppers, Some won't agree with me but I can see a scenario where Caylee was murdered in KC's bed sometime between the hours of 6-15 10p and 6-16 6a. And that CA was aware of it after the fact. The bullcarp stories CA came up with - subtle hints to her co workers, and the order of the 911 calls really just add to my theory. What really put the nail into my theory was the car. That :curses: car turned up being towed was CA/KCs Achilles' heel pain in the arse. Now an outsider of the A clan knew about it. Knew it smelled of decomp/death. KC didn't keep to the A clan plan/secret.

Now CA/GA go into full coverup mode; divert the attention, excuse after excuse for KC. Don't give evidence, clean up evidence, destroy evidence and distort the truth. No, no never tell the truth. GA just couldn't keep his mouth shut about the decomp not only to the tow yard mgr but also to LE/FBI and Grand Jury. And CA punishes him daily for it. She discovers the media "loves" her. Totally not understanding that it isn't her but KCs actions that made her a media story. Ratings; CA doesn't understand ratings other than the face time her yack, yack, yack brings the media stations. The more she spews out, the more people like me sit back and abhor her. The more she yacks, the closer she gets to being roommates with KC.

If anything, I truly want the media to STOP discussing this case for a few months. Stop giving CA a platform. I only want to hear from either the A clan and JB&crew when KC confesses or the trials begin. Other than these two events, keep them off the air and out of newsprint. Given them the silent treatment and the people who follow this case a mental health break so we can stop doing :banghead: .

Believe me, I really really want to type what I feel, but I don't want a time-out either. So I will just say it like this; CA/GA/KC/LA have all been kissed, and they don't have a smile on their faces afterwards either. :)
 
I still subscribe to the very first theories from all the posters here in the beginning. Casey drugged Caylee and put her in the trunk because she had no babysitter and wanted to be with Tony. With the duct tape info I believe even more so that's what happened. Not necessarily chloroform but something. That would also jive with George's account, the timeline and cell phone pings.

Casey had been claiming that she and Caylee spent the night with the nanny or Zanny many times. Long before she started seeing Ricardo and spending the night there. What about before that?

Duct tape could've been in her trunk already. The sticker may have been placed when she returned for trash bags etc. and wrapped Caylee up. She wrapped her up in her pooh blanket to go night night in the trunk.
 
countzero, I'm not sure I know what you mean by George and Cindy "knew immediately". If you are saying they realized KC had just killed their granddaughter in the bedroom, mid-June, that means roaring, raging Cindy phoned the police in July about the supposed theft of a car they had given KC but that Cindy would not have called them for the homicide. And her alarm at the smell of a dead body in the damn car was genuine. There was shock, horror and surprise in her voice when she exclaimed to the police. No way could that be faked, IMO. But even if you believe she was acting, if engaged in concealment, she would not have turned her daughter in for the "theft". The car and its condition would have been added to a mound of material that needed to be hidden. In fact, if George & Cindy were complicit after the fact in mid-June, the Pontiac would not have been involved in this case.

But maybe you are saying that George and Cindy knew their daughter had committed the ultimate sin upon discovering the car, the tow yard, the odor of decomposition. That I could understand and agree with, although I might say that repression and denial had already set in rather than blatant cover-up, which does not support the fact of the 911 calls nor the attitude on those calls.
 
countzero, I'm not sure I know what you mean by George and Cindy "knew immediately". If you are saying they realized KC had just killed their granddaughter in the bedroom, mid-June, that means roaring, raging Cindy phoned the police in July about the supposed theft of a car they had given KC but that Cindy would not have called them for the homicide. And her alarm at the smell of a dead body in the damn car was genuine. There was shock, horror and surprise in her voice when she exclaimed to the police. No way could that be faked, IMO. But even if you believe she was acting, if engaged in concealment, she would not have turned her daughter in for the "theft". The car and its condition would have been added to a mound of material that needed to be hidden. In fact, if George & Cindy were complicit after the fact in mid-June, the Pontiac would not have been involved in this case.

But maybe you are saying that George and Cindy knew their daughter had committed the ultimate sin upon discovering the car, the tow yard, the odor of decomposition. That I could understand and agree with, although I might say that repression and denial had already set in rather than blatant cover-up, which does not support the fact of the 911 calls nor the attitude on those calls.

You ask good questions. Answered that I have already put into posts during the past many long months.

I don't want to go and find them so I will give you my answers here again, np.

What I have said in the past is that KC murdered Caylee in KC's bed.

With the A clan history being learned in the docs, I believe that CA/GA/LA all knew immediately. GA or CA or both devised some plan to cover up the murder. KC, obviously didn't follow it or Caylee would have never been in the car for any amount of time other than to be moved from the A compound to where she was found.

CA - wasn't panic over Caylee missing. She knew is was gone. CA was in a panic because the car had been discovered with decomp. She KNEW the car had decomp yet she took the time to tell GA to go to work while she initiated a cleanup of evidence. Enough time passed during the clean for a "plausible" story to be created. She has evaded every opportunity given to her to find Caylee, yet she created roadblocks with each.

The 911 calls were a set up. If, in fact CA did not know Caylee was gone, she would have immediately called LE the moment GA drove up in the driveway with the car. Yet CA waited hours to contact LE, waited until the 3rd 911 call to mention Caylee was missing? Where was her genuine alarm then? Putting decomp slacks in the wash to get rid of evidence I suspect.

I wrote a while back that the cover up plan could have included many factors. No one would really miss Caylee IF each A told anyone Caylee was with someone else. KC managed to tell all her friends, acquaintances that Caylee was with Zanny or CA. No one bothered to press KC. Not even JG when KC went to shower at his apt. CA could have planned on telling SP that KC moved out with Caylee. Would SP question it? I don't think so. Just who would question where Caylee was?

KC's down fall was greed. Simple greed. It appears it started after Caylee was born. Conflicts with CA; threads upon threads and posts written about it here. KC simply failed to do what CA/GA told her. She basically was saying to them up yours, I solved the problem, got rid of the evidence and now I am free of you both. If I go down, you go down.

Now, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first or last time. But until I see something that makes me go "Yep, that could be it" this is what I theorize happened.

By the way, thanks for asking. I value many opposing theories if I can wrap my brain around them with the evidence. :)
 
Also I should add that when I review the docs I look at WHAT isn't said as well as what is said.

I am more interested in what CA/GA didn't say to and about KC and those in the depo then reading the carp CA/GA/LA deliver over and over again. Changing nouns and verbs to fit their moment.
 
Also I should add that when I review the docs I look at WHAT isn't said as well as what is said.

I am more interested in what CA/GA didn't say to and about KC and those in the depo then reading the carp CA/GA/LA deliver over and over again. Changing nouns and verbs to fit their moment.

I know where you are in your thoughts. Been down that road many times---always asking myself---> "Just when did the script start?" What day? Which one of the A's were added to the knowledge of the "script" and at what time were they added? Did LA know as soon as CA or GA did or was he brought in after the facts?

I have even mentioned it in public and it always gets shot down so I just shut up. Thanks for sayin it out loud.
 
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