Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[LambChop]

The gas cans were probably set down in the backyard while GA was mowing. Also lack of shoes might indicate that KC did not feel Caylee needed shoes where she was going. jmo

 

[Tulessa]

The gas cans were probably set down in the backyard while GA was mowing. Also lack of shoes might indicate that KC did not feel Caylee needed shoes where she was going. jmo

And the gas cans coming from Casey's trunk, and BINGO! You have decomp in the yard.

 

[Tulessa]

Pip I thought I had read elsewhere from 1-5 minutes, so that article seems to support that.

 

[Turnadot]

I initially thought Calyee was drowned on purpose in the pool, then placed on the grass while KC went inside for the bags Caylee was found in.

Or a simpler explanation and probably the most accurate I've read from others is: Caylee was in the trunk the entire time, decomp transferred to the gas cans and when GA got them back, he put them on the grass, transferring the decomp there.

 

[Softail]

And the gas cans coming from Casey's trunk, and BINGO! You have decomp in the yard.

That, or I wonder if when she borrowed the shovel - She poked at Caylee in the trunk with it (to move her or not want to touch her). Remember the car was backed into the garage at that time. Then went to the yard with the shovel. Tried to see if she could dig a hole, but couldn't. So she gave up on that idea yet decomp on the shovel transferred to the yard.

Then she wiped it off before returning it? :waitasec:

She had that shovel for such a short period of time..... The hits by the dogs in the yard always make me think of the shovel.

 

[Starfish]

Well from his actions, he certainly wasn't after the tire wedges, or KC handing over the gas cans would not have been enough for him to leave her alone. (apparently it was because I never remember hearing that he actually did get the tire wedges from KC or that there were even in the car when LE impounded it). So, I believe he at least lied to KC about the tire wedges but he either believed she had the gas cans in the trunk or he was curious about something else in her trunk. If the gas can incident happened on the 24th, that would have been approximately 8 days after death and 5 or 6 after the body was removed from KC's trunk. I think the decomp smell would have been in full force by that time - although I haven't researched this issue.

BBM: ITA with this, and wouldn't the smell permeate to the outside of the vehicle? With what I've read about the smell of decomp, it sure seems like it would & IIRC the tow yard guys said they smelled it without opening the trunk (course that was days after the gas can incident). If so, then that would certainly answer the question as to whether GA smelled it that day because there would be no way he couldn't have! Being familiar with the smell & she had the trunk open, oh yeah he smelled it.

 

[jon_burrows]

I don't think she was in a frenzy or rage or that it was an accident cover up in the spur of the moment. It takes time to think this up and then get the duct tape, cut those strips and place them. :banghead: I don't think someone in a fit of rage or panic comes up with that many steps. Thats why I think she had already planned how she was going to end any chance of CA getting Caylee. Maybe I'm wrong and but I can't even imagine a person doing that without planning it out. So I think SA will have to relay that in some way to the jury. jmo

BBM-This is exactly why it's considered premeditated murder. It takes time to get the duct tape, cut three to four pieces, place them on Caylee, then wait for her to slowly suffocate. Casey could have easily stopped at any point during this process and saved Caylee's life but she didn't. Even after putting the duct tape on her face she could have removed it, allowing her to live. She did not.

IMO

 

[Softail]

BBM-This is exactly why it's considered premeditated murder. It takes time to get the duct tape, cut three to four pieces, place them on Caylee, then wait for her to slowly suffocate. Casey could have easily stopped at any point during this process and saved Caylee's life but she didn't. Even after putting the duct tape on her face she could have removed it, allowing her to live. She did not.

IMO

This is also why I don't believe she drowned. I think EVEN Casey would have called 911 if she did.

 

[pip]

Do you think George and Cindy cooked up a scheme to ambush KC on the 24th? Cindy knew she was coming into the house when she knew no one was there. KC called them both that day before going to the house, no answer..she opened the garage and surprise!, George was home. George then persisted to get near the car, in the trunk. I think he was being an investigator, not just looking for his tire wedges.

 

[TallyHo]

Do you think George and Cindy cooked up a scheme to ambush KC on the 24th? Cindy knew she was coming into the house when she knew no one was there. KC called them both that day before going to the house, no answer..she opened the garage and surprise!, George was home. George then persisted to get near the car, in the trunk. I think he was being an investigator, not just looking for his tire wedges.

My own personal theory is that George was very possibly "sleuthing" Casey, but more than likely without Cindy's knowledge or blessing. Her pattern prior to this suggests that she would have thwarted him at every turn and dissed him for not being "supportive" of his daughter. But I really think he was looking in that trunk for more than gas cans. Just my :twocents:!!

 

[pip]

My own personal theory is that George was very possibly "sleuthing" Casey, but more than likely without Cindy's knowledge or blessing. Her pattern prior to this suggests that she would have thwarted him at every turn and dissed him for not being "supportive" of his daughter. But I really think he was looking in that trunk for more than gas cans. Just my :twocents:!!

I think he was sleuthing her too, but I think the head commando CA was instigating it. I think he was more interested in what she was stealing from the house at that point, which prompted him to look in her trunk for gas cans etc., but then may have caught a whiff of the decomp in the process.

 

[jon_burrows]

My gut says she was in the trunk the whole time and then to the woods, but I can't figure out why the cadaver dogs hit in the backyard. I personally think she borrowed the shovel and was going to bury her in the yard but changed her mind. I would think she would dig a hole before removing the body from the trunk in case anyone came, so it's hard to figure she had the body in the backyard at all, since she didn't dig a hole. It's mind boggling trying to fit the scenario together.

BBM- I agree.

I thought dirt was disturbed in the back yard. GA/CA said they were moving a plant or something like that. I find that highly suspicious because you generally don't move plants in the heat of the summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if Casey thought she could quickly dig a hole and throw Caylee in. She went to the shed to get a shovel and was thwarted by her parents because they were locking the sheds and taking the keys with them. Without thinking of the consequences she went next door to borrow a shovel. Caylee's body could have been laying in the backyard. Perhaps she hid her in the playhouse while she tried to dig a hole. Casey probably never had to to dig a hole in her entire life and didn't realize how long it takes. So she abandoned burying Caylee in the backyard. As crazy as it seems some killers bury their victims in their own back yard. Also, GA/CA said they already checked the back yard, even UNDER Caylee's playhouse. Doesn't seem to me like they were looking for a live Caylee if they looked under the playhouse. Caylee could not have lifted the little house then crawled under all by herself.

The dogs could have hit on a number of things. GA/CA had time to clean the car. Anything coming out of that car must have smelled like decomp. For example, Caylee's doll. Maybe after Cindy washed the doll she set it outside in the backyard to air out/dry. They could have also cleaned the trunk with their steam vac then dumped the water in the back. I find it extremely hard to believe that the car only had one hair considering the age of the car.

Another way is if they had a bucket full of water/cleaner with a brush and tried to scrub the stain/smell out. Perhaps they dumped the water in the backyard, cleaned the brush and left it outside to dry.

Also, as stated, transference from the gas cans to the back yard is a good possibility too.

IMO

 

[wenwe4]

I also have been thinking about the "manner of death" for this child. It doesn't make sense to me that if Caylee drown in the pool kc would duct tape her nose and mouth - except to contain purging liquids. That being the case, Caylee's facial skin and hair would have to be somewhat dry for the duct tape to stick to it when it was placed. I believe the child died at or near the time she was placed in the trunk of KC's car. The stain in the trunk did not have a lot of "movement" - in fact it was (imo) quite well defined. I believe KC kept Caylee's body in the trunk for 2 or 2 1/2 days, then she triple bagged her. This "messy job" would probably inspire KC to use the shovel as a lever to lift Caylee's body into the bag while still remaining in the trunk of the car. If kc put a bag over the shovel as well - there would be no need for rinsing off the shovel. If she didn't then she could have easily hosed it off in the back yard, and then dipped it in the pool to disinfect it - leaving it out to dry in the FL sun for 30 - 45 minutes could potentially dry out the wooden handle (?) - i am not sure due the humiditity there. I think kc was keeping the gas cans in the trunk to try and overcome the smell of the decomp fluids but this failed miserably and she got caught stealing the gas. (Random thought - I wonder what would have happened if GA had called the police officer who took the report of the stolen gas and told him they solved the mystery of the stolen gas but not the mystery of the missing baby and lying, stealing daughter)

 

[pip]

I also have been thinking about the "manner of death" for this child. It doesn't make sense to me that if Caylee drown in the pool kc would duct tape her nose and mouth - except to contain purging liquids. That being the case, Caylee's facial skin and hair would have to be somewhat dry for the duct tape to stick to it when it was placed. I believe the child died at or near the time she was placed in the trunk of KC's car. The stain in the trunk did not have a lot of "movement" - in fact it was (imo) quite well defined. I believe KC kept Caylee's body in the trunk for 2 or 2 1/2 days, then she triple bagged her. This "messy job" would probably inspire KC to use the shovel as a lever to lift Caylee's body into the bag while still remaining in the trunk of the car. If kc put a bag over the shovel as well - there would be no need for rinsing off the shovel. If she didn't then she could have easily hosed it off in the back yard, and then dipped it in the pool to disinfect it - leaving it out to dry in the FL sun for 30 - 45 minutes could potentially dry out the wooden handle (?) - i am not sure due the humiditity there. I think kc was keeping the gas cans in the trunk to try and overcome the smell of the decomp fluids but this failed miserably and she got caught stealing the gas. (Random thought - I wonder what would have happened if GA had called the police officer who took the report of the stolen gas and told him they solved the mystery of the stolen gas but not the mystery of the missing baby and lying, stealing daughter)

I think a shovel would have been a very awkward tool to use to lift a dead body the size of Caylee (in rigor or not), and to somehow guide it into a plastic bag. I definitely think the shovel was to dig a hole. I wonder if she borrowed a pair of CA's rubber cleaning gloves to handle the body and hosed them off in the backyard? I just can't see her doing this barehanded.

 

[Solace]

I think he was sleuthing her too, but I think the head commando CA was instigating it. I think he was more interested in what she was stealing from the house at that point, which prompted him to look in her trunk for gas cans etc., but then may have caught a whiff of the decomp in the process.

This is the 24th. Forensics believes Caylee was removed on June 19th because the smell was so bad.

Lee said he does not believe that KC could have done any "sleuthing" in that car because of the odor. It was that bad. He had to leave the garage several times because of the odor.

So, she kills her on the 16th in the afternoon, like an errand, and leaves her in the trunk - which we know to be true from the coffin flies and the fatty acids (decomposition) in the middle of the trunk. By June 19th, even KC can't take it anymore. I cannot believe that George did not smell anything on the 24th if the car smelled so bad on July 16th that George and Cindy said it smelled like death.

This family walks in denial so I don't know what to think about the odor in the car on the 24th. I know she had to leave it on the 27th because it was bad. So why would it not be bad on the 24th or worse.

FWIW, I had the misfortune of dealing with the smell of death and it does get into everything and you really can't save anything and that means anything in a room at the end of the apartment with the door closed. Doesn't matter. Gets in there. Trying to save some pictures and that is 8 months later. Still haven't looked at them.

Anyway, I digress. I thought it really did smell like horrific garbage. I mean for weeks I could not use garbage bags. Although, I may have associated the smell with the black garbage bags because I used them to clean out the apartment.

It was bad. I cannot see it not smelling if George were by the back of the car and the trunk was open and KC TRIED to keep him from it. It had to.

 

[Turnadot]

Maybe GA lied about the gas can incident. Maybe it never happened.

 

[ynotdivein]

I just went back and started re-reading this thread (let alone the 6 that preceded it) and in only 2 pages my head was back to spinning...

It's beyond infuriating that the only person who can really tell us what happened to Caylee and when, won't.

 

[pip]

Maybe GA lied about the gas can incident. Maybe it never happened.

That's what makes putting a theory together so difficult. As much as these people lie, it's like trying to pin jello to a wall.

 

[angeldust]

I understand. I was just thinking that even if she had the fleeting, irrational thought of burying her in the backyard, she would likely keep the body safely hidden away in the trunk until the hole was ready, not just lying in the yard until she was ready. I don't think she was in the backyard at all. Maybe she had to use the hose to clean something or herself after the disposal, leaving the decomp scent in the yard? Maybe Cindy contaminated something in the yard when cleaning out the trunk? Did she set items out there to air out because they stunk? So many what ifs..
ETA:
Since my theory is that Caylee did not die at home, I think she was in the trunk for some time without the garbage bags and canvas bag. I think that is when the child's outline occurred in the trunk liner staining and then she pulled the car into the garage on one of the occasions (18th maybe? when BB saw her) to put Caylee in the bags. It would have been messy so she perhaps had to wash herself out in the back with the garden hose? Possible.

Im with ya That sounds about just right to me. I just cannot for the life of me think how or where she actually killed the baby maybe my mind doesnt want to go there nothing I have thought about makes any sense as to how she actually did the deed. I do think she put the duct tape on to make it look like a kidnapping but i could be totally wrong maybe it needs a sociopathic minds to work her out. idk lol I know im not a sociopath but not saying im not a little nuts at times but im just stumped as to how and where

 

[jon_burrows]

Im with ya That sounds about just right to me. I just cannot for the life of me think how or where she actually killed the baby maybe my mind doesnt want to go there nothing I have thought about makes any sense as to how she actually did the deed. I do think she put the duct tape on to make it look like a kidnapping but i could be totally wrong maybe it needs a sociopathic minds to work her out. idk lol I know im not a sociopath but not saying im not a little nuts at times but im just stumped as to how and where

JA's theory is the same as mine. She either drugged Caylee or held her down then put on the tape. After that she let nature take its course. There was a fourth piece of tape not attached to the skull. I believe it had fringe hairs (hopefully I'm saying that right) so the fourth piece could have been used to tie Caylee's arms so she couldn't remove the tape. I don't believe they can match fringe hairs to a person.

The staged kidnapping never made any sense to me. She didn't call the police to report a kidnapping. She never acted distraught over anything, quite the opposite. Plus three long pieces of duct tape wrapped all the way into her hair would have been over-kill. That amount of duct tape was there to do exactly what it looks like, to ensure Caylee never took another breath.

It's gruesome to think about this but assume for one minute this was an accident, what would a distraught mother do, call for help. By not calling for help she ensured Caylee would die. Casey isn't a medical person so if it was accidental then Casey made sure she was dead by not summoning help. The last thing a mother (or anyone) would do to a child that has died accidentally would slap layer after layer of duct tape to her corpse. It's not even remotely possible in my mind unless Casey has some sick fetish and likes to decorate corpses with duct tape. One piece would suffice for a staged kidnapping, three is meant to kill.

IMO