Theories

[RubyJuno]

Well well well...

Sorry to be late. I'd missed the part where I was specifically asked by two of you about why I thought that WH didn't commit the crime all by himself, and now I'm having some trouble with the "reply" function.

So anyway...I really appreciate MountainKat's distinction between "theory" and "opinion," and I'd like to preserve a distinction when I talk about them because I think that defining them narrowly is pretty useful here.

If I haven't said much about my theories, it's because I don't really have theories. My opinion that WH didn't act alone *might* be based on an ignorance of some facts, so I want to be careful.

My sense is that WH is not terribly bright (though IMHO he's smarter than he makes himself sound) and that he's not good at playing it cool. He leaps to intervene, to control the narrative.

And he's been surrounded by people who talk about how close they all are to each other. So I figured that someone had to know something.

You know, it's funny: even as I type this, my opinions are shifting around. Do we hear so much about people's "brothers" and "sisters" as a way of "keeping your enemies closer"? Are some people protesting too much?

I want to say something about someone who called AJ a "sister"--this is not about the crime and I'm not casting aspersions on anyone, but I wonder whether "sister" in this case means "I always wanted her to be my girlfriend but she said she didn't think of me that way..." I can't say more because I don't want to accuse this person of anything.

This is so muddled. As I type this out, I wonder whether WH could have done this on his own. I can't come up with fact-based reasons why he couldn't. I don't think that he's innocent of any involvement; I believe that mainly because of his meddling, the nature of his criminal record, and the opinions of some people who know him far better than I, a stranger, do.

In short: I got nothin'. Thanks for calling me out on it and making me think about it! I hate that I'm contributing so little, and I really appreciate what y'all are doing here.

 

[RubyJuno]

Re the "four"--the people who were said to be guys, maybe some of them minors, who were involved with the jacket-related break-in:

--Am I correct that the general understanding is that they constitute (or are related to) the four counts of obstruction?

--I hope I have the right people. Two people mentioned in the media as having spoken about this situation--i.e., two of the "four"--are AB and JC. Are the third and fourth (one of whom has a "C") also both youngish friends of AJ?

--Is it possible to discuss who was living in the household at the time of AJ's disappearance?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Well well well...

Sorry to be late. I'd missed the part where I was specifically asked by two of you about why I thought that WH didn't commit the crime all by himself, and now I'm having some trouble with the "reply" function.

So anyway...I really appreciate MountainKat's distinction between "theory" and "opinion," and I'd like to preserve a distinction when I talk about them because I think that defining them narrowly is pretty useful here.

If I haven't said much about my theories, it's because I don't really have theories. My opinion that WH didn't act alone *might* be based on an ignorance of some facts, so I want to be careful.

My sense is that WH is not terribly bright (though IMHO he's smarter than he makes himself sound) and that he's not good at playing it cool. He leaps to intervene, to control the narrative.

And he's been surrounded by people who talk about how close they all are to each other. So I figured that someone had to know something.

You know, it's funny: even as I type this, my opinions are shifting around. Do we hear so much about people's "brothers" and "sisters" as a way of "keeping your enemies closer"? Are some people protesting too much?

I want to say something about someone who called AJ a "sister"--this is not about the crime and I'm not casting aspersions on anyone, but I wonder whether "sister" in this case means "I always wanted her to be my girlfriend but she said she didn't think of me that way..." I can't say more because I don't want to accuse this person of anything.

This is so muddled. As I type this out, I wonder whether WH could have done this on his own. I can't come up with fact-based reasons why he couldn't. I don't think that he's innocent of any involvement; I believe that mainly because of his meddling, the nature of his criminal record, and the opinions of some people who know him far better than I, a stranger, do.

In short: I got nothin'. Thanks for calling me out on it and making me think about it! I hate that I'm contributing so little, and I really appreciate what y'all are doing here.

I think the one that always wanted AJ to be his gf was just simply showing respect of how honorable she was to whoever she was dating at the time.

Plus it shows how gently she knows how to turn someone away from the dating idea.

Most men have heard this atleast once in their life.

Lol.

Yes. I've heard it several times.

But now happily married with kids but still remember the gentle let downs without giving it too much thought.

A blessing in disguise.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Re the "four"--the people who were said to be guys, maybe some of them minors, who were involved with the jacket-related break-in:

--Am I correct that the general understanding is that they constitute (or are related to) the four counts of obstruction?

--I hope I have the right people. Two people mentioned in the media as having spoken about this situation--i.e., two of the "four"--are AB and JC. Are the third and fourth (one of whom has a "C") also both youngish friends of AJ?

--Is it possible to discuss who was living in the household at the time of AJ's disappearance?

I feel others hardship.

But if my daughter is missing and you possibly suggest to me a proposal to moving in because you don't have the finances or means to take care of your own personal self or personal business.

Then we have a problem.

Also. If you use my daughters (God Forbid ) Missing and Murder case to raise money for some bs crap that has nothing to do with my daughter's situation.

Then we have a problem.

Jmo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Re the "four"--the people who were said to be guys, maybe some of them minors, who were involved with the jacket-related break-in:

--Am I correct that the general understanding is that they constitute (or are related to) the four counts of obstruction?

--I hope I have the right people. Two people mentioned in the media as having spoken about this situation--i.e., two of the "four"--are AB and JC. Are the third and fourth (one of whom has a "C") also both youngish friends of AJ?

--Is it possible to discuss who was living in the household at the time of AJ's disappearance?

I believe they were all over the age of 18, so not minors, but yes...these are the four individuals who are the basis for the obstruction of justice charges against Wesley Hadsell. Two of them, Andre Barr and Josh Campbell, have been named in msm as being directly related to those charges. One of the four has been named in msm many times, but not named directly as relating to these charges (possibly because he did not take the stand to testify, I don't know), the last of the four has never been named by msm, so obviously I can not name him here per TOS.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well well well...

Sorry to be late. I'd missed the part where I was specifically asked by two of you about why I thought that WH didn't commit the crime all by himself, and now I'm having some trouble with the "reply" function.

So anyway...I really appreciate MountainKat's distinction between "theory" and "opinion," and I'd like to preserve a distinction when I talk about them because I think that defining them narrowly is pretty useful here.

If I haven't said much about my theories, it's because I don't really have theories. My opinion that WH didn't act alone *might* be based on an ignorance of some facts, so I want to be careful.

My sense is that WH is not terribly bright (though IMHO he's smarter than he makes himself sound) and that he's not good at playing it cool. He leaps to intervene, to control the narrative.

And he's been surrounded by people who talk about how close they all are to each other. So I figured that someone had to know something.

You know, it's funny: even as I type this, my opinions are shifting around. Do we hear so much about people's "brothers" and "sisters" as a way of "keeping your enemies closer"? Are some people protesting too much?

I want to say something about someone who called AJ a "sister"--this is not about the crime and I'm not casting aspersions on anyone, but I wonder whether "sister" in this case means "I always wanted her to be my girlfriend but she said she didn't think of me that way..." I can't say more because I don't want to accuse this person of anything.

This is so muddled. As I type this out, I wonder whether WH could have done this on his own. I can't come up with fact-based reasons why he couldn't. I don't think that he's innocent of any involvement; I believe that mainly because of his meddling, the nature of his criminal record, and the opinions of some people who know him far better than I, a stranger, do.

In short: I got nothin'. Thanks for calling me out on it and making me think about it! I hate that I'm contributing so little, and I really appreciate what y'all are doing here.

I think you contribute a great deal, Ruby. I find your posts to be honest, refreshing, and thought provoking.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Perhaps our Mods will consider renaming this thread simply "The Theory Thread", so that those of us who have actual theories can post them somewhere.

 

[bessie]

Perhaps our Mods will consider renaming this thread simply "The Theory Thread", so that those of us who have actual theories can post them somewhere.

Go for it. I can change the thread title. No problem.

What will not change are the rules about carrying over gossip and rumors from social media. Nor will the rules change with regard to complaining and mod bashing in the threads. I don't know that I've ever seen so much bellyaching in a forum the entire time I've been on WS.

Members normally are happy to have a dedicated forum where they can organize information, and break out the discussion into specific topics. And just so everyone realizes, it takes a mod hours to put together a well-organized forum, and to maintain it. We don't do it for ourselves. We do it as a service for the members.

This isn't directed at you, MK, btw, but to everyone, in general. I've had it with the whining and moaning. It is what it is. Take it or leave it.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Go for it. I can change the thread title. No problem.

What will not change are the rules about carrying over gossip and rumors from social media. Nor will the rules change with regard to complaining and mod bashing in the threads. I don't know that I've ever seen so much bellyaching in a forum the entire time I've been on WS.

Members normally are happy to have a dedicated forum where they can organize information, and break out the discussion into specific topics. And just so everyone realizes, it takes a mod hours to put together a well-organized forum, and to maintain it. We don't do it for ourselves. We do it as a service for the members.

This isn't directed at you, MK, btw, but to everyone, in general. I've had it with the whining and moaning. It is what it is. Take it or leave it.

Thanks, Bessie. I'll do a bit more research and try to put together a reasonable theory backed up by msm links.

 

[missingm]

Go for it. I can change the thread title. No problem.

What will not change are the rules about carrying over gossip and rumors from social media. Nor will the rules change with regard to complaining and mod bashing in the threads. I don't know that I've ever seen so much bellyaching in a forum the entire time I've been on WS.

Members normally are happy to have a dedicated forum where they can organize information, and break out the discussion into specific topics. And just so everyone realizes, it takes a mod hours to put together a well-organized forum, and to maintain it. We don't do it for ourselves. We do it as a service for the members.

This isn't directed at you, MK, btw, but to everyone, in general. I've had it with the whining and moaning. It is what it is. Take it or leave it.

Thank you for the work Bessie. I just think that this is an unusual case, in that I have never seen LE as quiet as they have been on this case. If we were to squeeze together all of the quotes from LE directly related to AJ's disappearance (leaving out the WH stuff) I doubt it would even be a long post. Not a comment on clarifying the timeline, manner of death, nothing...

 

[Carolina Girl]

Thanks for the hard work Bessie. The beginning of a forum always throws folks for a loop. You settle into it. But complaining and bellyaching is uncalled for.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I will jump in here with this one. I can not forget the taxi driver that commented early in the case about the young adults in her cab. If AJ left home to let off steam, the wagons could have circled around the person responsible for her leaving, not the person/persons responsible for her demise. So little facts and much BS from a few people.

 

[hey-Debbie]

I will jump in here with this one. I can not forget the taxi driver that commented early in the case about the young adults in her cab. If AJ left home to let off steam, the wagons could have circled around the person responsible for her leaving, not the person/persons responsible for her demise. So little facts and much BS from a few people.

On that note we haven't talked much lately about the clothes that were found on the side of the road in Chesapeake in a while if it was only WH he sure was busy B&E working in Franklin driving to Chesapeake from tips. Didnt other people in that household wonder where he was going all the time? And if WH planted AJs jacket and 4 people knew avout it do you think others also knew about possible WH planting the clothes too? I think he had others helping him out whether they knew it or not.


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[Happyshoes]

Does anybody remember the article from WAVY on or about April 15th where 7 people OD'd on Spice in one weekend? That was in the Hampton area - 6 unrelated episodes. In trying to think who else could be involved in AJ's death, I'm coming up with this (but with whom?) and/or someone else who was obsessed with her and being rejected by AJ. If she was mad at her home situation, who would she go hook up with? Did she meet anyone at school that was new to the group? I watched WH's jailhouse interview again last night and just couldn't quit thinking "what if....". He did so many things wrong, but there's just that tinge of doubt. Who has a dark blue caravan???

 

[Mountain_Kat]

On that note we haven't talked much lately about the clothes that were found on the side of the road in Chesapeake in a while if it was only WH he sure was busy B&E working in Franklin driving to Chesapeake from tips. Didnt other people in that household wonder where he was going all the time? And if WH planted AJs jacket and 4 people knew avout it do you think others also knew about possible WH planting the clothes too? I think he had others helping him out whether they knew it or not.


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I'm responding to this because it's actually part of my theory, and I want to sort of highlight it here so that I don't forget to include it later.

1. Wesley Hadsell wasn't living in the home, he was living in a hotel off of E Little Creek Rd, and had been living there since about 3 weeks before AJ's disappearance. So it's highly doubtful that anyone in AJ's home would know anything about his comings and goings, imo. http://hamptonroads.com/2015/03/stepfather-missing-norfolk-18yearold-denied-bond

2. WH and company found the clothing in Chesapeake on March 19 (Thurs.) at approximately 5pm. We do not know how long the clothes were out there. They could have been dumped there on a weekend, at 2am on March18...they could have been dumped there shortly after AJ went missing. We simply don't know. So, whoever dumped these items on the road had plenty of opportunity to do so. http://wavy.com/2015/03/21/crews-search-for-missing-teen-anjelica-hadsell-in-chesapeake/

3. I don't believe that anyone, other than WH, knew that he intended to plant the jacket at CF's house. I believe that there was one individual, Josh Campbell, who knew that WH intended to break into the home, and that once WH was in the home, he texted this individual saying, "We have a problem". The "problem" being that WH was letting this individual know that he "found" AJ's jacket.

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/05/hadsell-case-norfolk-tied-breakin-moves-forward

Here is what WH says about the planning of the break in: " I had a conversation with an individual and it (the break in) felt like something we needed to do. When I made the decision, other individuals were brought in because I was trying to make the evidence come to light."

So, it seem pretty clear to me that what actually transpired, was that WH told people that he suspected CF. He had a discussion about this with JC, and he and WH agreed that WH should break into the home and have a look around. Once WH was in the home, he texted JC and told him he found AJ's jacket. WH placed the jacket somewhere where it would be immediately visible, and then left. He then talks to 3 of AJ's other friends, one which we know was Andre Barr, and admits to the break in. http://wtkr.com/2015/05/11/judge-di...ey-hadsell-four-others-will-go-to-grand-jury/ (@2:00 mark). Together they work out the details of how these friends will visit CF and act like they just happened to spot this jacket while hanging out.

I don't believe ANY of the 4 knew anything at all about the jacket, until WH texted JC, saying "We have a problem."

 

[Carolina Girl]

On that note we haven't talked much lately about the clothes that were found on the side of the road in Chesapeake in a while if it was only WH he sure was busy B&E working in Franklin driving to Chesapeake from tips. Didnt other people in that household wonder where he was going all the time? And if WH planted AJs jacket and 4 people knew avout it do you think others also knew about possible WH planting the clothes too? I think he had others helping him out whether they knew it or not.


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I think so many people are in deep doo, they can never get out. Just a matter of time.

 

[Vail]

Hi everyone,

I am not here to dispute any theory or opinion. I do want to offer a few cognative questions for those of you working the Zach angle, which I personally need resolved before I can give it much serious consideration:

1. Zach has a verifiable alibi. Have you found evidence to the contrary?
2. Can links be provided to public statements by the family or friends stating they think he did it?
3. Did he have the means or time to plant or dispose of evidence without his employers, friends and daughters seeing something amiss?
4. How do you explain LE's conduct related to Zach in light of Zach's very public opinions, statements and involvement here on WS vs their conduct related to Wes?
5. Does he have any connection with Franklin?
6. Where does this put Wes, his behavior and his statements in the story for you?

Now apply these same questions to any of the other characters.

 

[FindHG]

Hi everyone,

I am not here to dispute any theory or opinion. I do want to offer a few cognative questions for those of you working the Zach angle, which I personally need resolved before I can give it much serious consideration:

1. Zach has a verifiable alibi. Have you found evidence to the contrary?
2. Can links be provided to public statements by the family or friends stating they think he did it?
3. Did he have the means or time to plant or dispose of evidence without his employers, friends and daughters seeing something amiss?
4. How do you explain LE's conduct related to Zach in light of Zach's very public opinions, statements and involvement here on WS vs their conduct related to Wes?
5. Does he have any connection with Franklin?
6. Where does this put Wes, his behavior and his statements in the story for you?

Now apply these same questions to any of the other characters.

Hi Vail

Great questions. Thank you for asking them.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Hi everyone,

I am not here to dispute any theory or opinion. I do want to offer a few cognative questions for those of you working the Zach angle, which I personally need resolved before I can give it much serious consideration:

1. Zach has a verifiable alibi. Have you found evidence to the contrary?
2. Can links be provided to public statements by the family or friends stating they think he did it?
3. Did he have the means or time to plant or dispose of evidence without his employers, friends and daughters seeing something amiss?
4. How do you explain LE's conduct related to Zach in light of Zach's very public opinions, statements and involvement here on WS vs their conduct related to Wes?
5. Does he have any connection with Franklin?
6. Where does this put Wes, his behavior and his statements in the story for you?

Now apply these same questions to any of the other characters.

Respectfullyy I will take a shot, although I don't have any particular angle, personally everyone is suspect to me until LEO name a Suspect / POI. But my thoughts:

1. Zach has a verifiable alibi. Have you found evidence to the contrary? *verifiable alibi by whom? cant sleuth per TOS. We don't know anyone verifiable alibi, do we?

2. Can links be provided to public statements by the family or friends stating they think he did it? *likewise this can be said about anyone. Although WH sister has made various statements to the press, it is also evident she did it after the funeral, whatever happen there. And personally after reading much back and forth on SM and no arrest as yet, I add it to the hmmmm column.

3. Did he have the means or time to plant or dispose of evidence without his employers, friends and daughters seeing something amiss? *again, we cant sleuth him per TOS, so unable to answer. JMHO just as possible as anyone else, but unless able to sleuth and comment on, just as anyone else outside of AJ and Wes arrest for the charges 4 obstruction, 1 ammo, 1 B&E, little else can speak on.

4. How do you explain LE's conduct related to Zach in light of Zach's very public opinions, statements and involvement here on WS vs their conduct related to Wes? *what related conduct would that be ? We do not know what LEO is doing or thinking. They haven't made any comments have they? On anyone. I am sure as part of an ongoing investigation, they have eyes and ears on many.

5. Does he have any connection with Franklin? *Again, cant sleuth. It appears that Wes employer has clients in Franklin from reading reviews, I don't know that he was working alone or with someone the day that he was working out of town. Again, we know very little. Many probabilities still out there.

6. Where does this put Wes, his behavior and his statements in the story for you? * Personally, I can see him as a concerned Father just as much as I can anyone else who loved AJ. People react differently. I don't know any of the players prior (or now) but I don't know personalities. From reading SM, of WH and other people, if that is to give me an opinion, it actually raises many concerns. I would think since LEO has the knowledge and way more info than we would ever (us the nosey public) need to know. If they haven't investigated those concerns. which I know they are too professional not to, it would be something that needs to be addressed as to why.

Now apply these same questions to any of the other characters. * I have, and do as a continuing process. Two steps forward and haven't had the instructions yet from LEO as to which we should take steps back on. In our personal theories that is.

Now I have an honest question. Why when we have no suspect, is everyone so bent over backwards on one person? LEO has not shown to be making anyone suspect in AJ disappearance and untimely death. I have enough personal opinion that whomever (unless it is someone we or I will rephrase ~ someone I ~ am unaware of) I can fall right in line with why they could be the suspect. Is it because of WH past criminal record? Sure that is a flag. But he hasn't been in trouble for what over 10 years? Even a member who lives across the street Molly stated early on that she had never seen LEO over there or anything but parents who both work and good kids over. Zach, who is a VI stated that AJ had many friends, a lot of male friend that were good kids. Now, I don't know how he would know who AJ friends are or anything about them since he didn't have a close relationship with her, estranged is how he stated it on the news. Only place other than here and his fb (which he himself gave links to and links to his public blog). So that short piece on the news only public place I have seen or heard Zach. I will go out on a limb and say anything Zach has heard or knows about the case or AJ is from his daughters. Which is to me hearsay. This is just my very honest opinion.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Now I have an honest question. Why when we have no suspect, is everyone so bent over backwards on one person? LEO has not shown to be making anyone suspect in AJ disappearance and untimely death. I have enough personal opinion that whomever (unless it is someone we or I will rephrase ~ someone I ~ am unaware of) I can fall right in line with why they could be the suspect. Is it because of WH past criminal record? Sure that is a flag. But he hasn't been in trouble for what over 10 years? Even a member who lives across the street Molly stated early on that she had never seen LEO over there or anything but parents who both work and good kids over. Zach, who is a VI stated that AJ had many friends, a lot of male friend that were good kids. Now, I don't know how he would know who AJ friends are or anything about them since he didn't have a close relationship with her, estranged is how he stated it on the news. Only place other than here and his fb (which he himself gave links to and links to his public blog). So that short piece on the news only public place I have seen or heard Zach. I will go out on a limb and say anything Zach has heard or knows about the case or AJ is from his daughters. Which is to me hearsay. This is just my very honest opinion.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but I will say that WH is the only one in this case that to me, stands out as the most likely suspect. Despite the fact has not been named as such by LE. I came to this opinion for many reasons:

1. his own statements in interviews
2. shifting timelines of last sighting
3. his violent criminal past
4. the way he spoke of AJ on SM
5. his current cocaine usage
6. being in possession of ammo
7. Work history of being in Franklin
8. Comments from his own sister, to the media
9. His attempt to set up a local kid
10. LE stating her phone pinged in the same area he was working in

That's the short list or red flags that popped up for me (and some may or may not be directly related but all of them together doesn't bode well for him).

There's a longer one that began to form when I began to really dig a bit deeper into his SM & read comments from others that have known him for years. Stuff that can't be posted here without a link and stuff I can't link to because it's considered rumor. That being said, he's the ONLY one in this case that has a list as long as he does, for those reasons.

If Wes Hadsell DIDN'T kill Anjelica Hadsell, he's the unluckiest guy on the planet. But, I believe he did.

JMO.